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Ertle
04-05-2009, 21:46
There's a thread going on in general about Chaos traitor guard but what about guard that left the Imperium but hasn't devolved into chaos worship? Would it be possible or would they just be crushed utterly by the Imperium?

Also no taking into account the Gue'vasa since they are all up in the Tau empire.

madprophet
04-05-2009, 21:56
Secessionists tend to get the short end of the stick in the fluff but I tend to think that is mostly Imperial propaganda. According to the fluff many of the 1000 worlds conquered during the Macharian Crusade remain independent. When you consider that entire sectors of space can be lost due to rounding errors in tax calculations, secessionists can exist for millennia before the Imperium even becomes aware of them.

The Tau Empire is hundreds of light years across, and was expanding for 4000 years before the Imperium even became aware of them. You could fit the entire Star Trek Federation inside such a space. There's a lot of room for your own ideas in there.

Commissar Vaughn
04-05-2009, 21:57
entire worlds leave the Imperium and attempt to go it alone all the time, and Ive always been attracted by the idea of the Regiments from one world (and its outposts) attempting to survive the hordes of aliens, mutants, deamons and the attentions of the Imperium.

Renagade Miniatures do a very nice range of ACW models (and regiment deals of 24+ metal minis for 12!) and Im very tempted myself to collect ACW Rebels from Renagade to make up a force of free thinking Traitors!

Cant help thinkin its almost poetic...anyhoo....

Its possible....they wont last long, except by pure luck, unless they're in a remote spot where they go unnoticed for a few centuries.

Kraxis
04-05-2009, 22:14
They can probably survive for millennia if they're in the right area. If they're on the edge of imperial space and constantly battling aliens, they would fall immidiatly. But if they take command of a Hive World in a cluster of agriworlds with decent protection and not too close to imperial strenght, they will prosper for centuries. If they happen to rebel in Ultramar or the Sol system, however, they won't have time to rebel before getting purged.

Col. Tartleton
04-05-2009, 22:33
See here's the conundrum.

When you are a member of the Imperium you get:

Protection (Imperial Guard, Adeptus Astartes)
Trade Contracts
Self Rule (Though there will be a mandated Governor Position)
Ecclesiastical Institutions (Ministorum, Schola Progenium, etc.)
Planetary Defense Legions, Arbiters, and The Inquisition (For Your Protection)
Mechanicus Technology (Its Actually Really Good)

Not a horrible deal if you aren't up to anything.

If you secede this is what you get.

Cons:
Threat of Invasion From Your Own Species (Imperial Guard, Adeptus Astartes)
Trade Contracts Severed
Threat of Xenos and Heretical Revolutions
Ecclesiastical Institutions Revoked (Religion, Medicine, Military Institutions)
The Threat of Inquisitorial Retribution (War, Genocide, Exterminatus...)
Horrible Horrible Death (Little Need To Elaborate)

Pros:
Temporary Freedom
You Don't Have To Pay That Annoying Little Tithe

Unless you're turning evil. Then it makes a lot of sense to rebel, because in that instance you get giant evil warriors, monsters, and legions of demonic entities to help stop the giant good warriors, giant robots, and legions of genocidal religious fanatics.

Mannimarco
04-05-2009, 23:11
theres whole sections of the galaxy we have been told nothing about, and a lot of this has been colonised then forgotten about as the centuries go by, im sure there are human populations out there who exist without any interaction with the imperium

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
05-05-2009, 02:15
The Great Crusade liberated 2 million worlds. The imperium is currently around 1 million strong. Granted some of those 1 million that were lost either went to chaos or have been ravaged by aliens, but there are plenty of independant worlds out there. A few probably still using all the nice Dark Age of Technology stuff.

Ertle
05-05-2009, 02:20
Sweet now I just need to come up with fluff on how they've survived this long. Thanks everybody.

Mannimarco
05-05-2009, 03:06
survived by being small scale enough that nobody really bothered with them or even noticed they were there, stick them in the galactic north, its more or less a clean slate up there with little info and no rampaging nid fleets, there was once a race who lived there and managed to kill a chapter master but cant for the life of me remember much about it

madprophet
05-05-2009, 04:09
Sweet now I just need to come up with fluff on how they've survived this long. Thanks everybody.

Well, you have a few options

They are in segmentum Pacificus, survived as independents until the 40th millennium when they were occupied by Macharius, regained their freedom after the death of Macharius - untouched by the 70 year Pacificus Crusade

or

They are in the Eastern Fringe beyond the Astronomicon :cool:

or

They are in the Halo and never heard of the Imperium :wtf:

or

They quietly deposed their Imperial Commander (or Chaos Overlord) and have been lost in the Imperial bureaucracy for several millennia :evilgrin:

DarkMatter2
05-05-2009, 04:15
I see the story options as being limited for non-Chaos traitors.

Either they are free and no one knows they exist, therefore they are not in conflict with the Imperium or any alien empires and there is no reason for a wargame army, OR the Imperium knows they exist and will destroy them, OR an alien empire will eventually crush/absorb them.

The notion that your ONE PLANET is special enough to survive Imperial attention is too Mary-Sueish IMHO.

Hellebore
05-05-2009, 04:42
You could create a propaganda army. They are all trained to believe they are fighting for the Imperial Regiment X. So when they fight imperial forces the Imperium thinks they are a mercenary formation or a traitorous guard regiment rather than the army of an independent planetary federation.

The Imperium would spend years chasing its own tail and exterminating its own people thinking they'd turned traitor...

Hellebore

Papa JJ
05-05-2009, 05:23
I see the story options as being limited for non-Chaos traitors.

Either they are free and no one knows they exist, therefore they are not in conflict with the Imperium or any alien empires and there is no reason for a wargame army, OR the Imperium knows they exist and will destroy them, OR an alien empire will eventually crush/absorb them.

The notion that your ONE PLANET is special enough to survive Imperial attention is too Mary-Sueish IMHO.

As vast as the Empire of Man is, it is not without its limitations. With so many demands upon its resources from so many varied threats and such expansive warzones, I do not think it unreasonable to conceive of an independent system still organized along Imperial lines. If the Imperium were so supremely dominant, certainly the Eldar and Tau would be summarily dealt with in short order. Nor would a rogue chapter like the Soul Drinkers survive for long either. As the 40k universe is a work of fiction, there should be quite a bit of room for the imagination to wander, and no shortages of deus-ex-machinas either. (Fair is fair, in GW's own fiction there always seems to be that convenient warpstorm showing up when needed most....)

Iracundus
05-05-2009, 11:03
No where is it said that it has to be a mere one planet rebelling. It would not be that outlandish to think that a group of worlds with economic and/or cultural ties may begin to feel more loyalty to each other than to the distant Imperium. One shouldn't forget that the Imperium's tithes can be harsh and be the equivalent of precipitating an economic recession or depression...For worlds in distant, relatively quiet areas of space, they may start to wonder just why they put up with those tithes to a distant power.

Alternatively, they might like Sebastian Thor and the worlds he hailed from, believe the Imperium is a corruption of the Emperor's will and that they can make a new Imperium adhering to what the Emperor might have really wanted. You could have splinter sects of the Ecclesiarchy support this. Also, it wouldn't be out of the question for some Recongregator faction of the Inquisition to support such reform, if they believed it would aid humanity in the long run. Istvaanite Inquisitors might equally well support and aid but for different reasons.

Alessander
06-05-2009, 00:31
prior to the great crusade, all the human armies the emperor's armies and legions fought were non-chaos traitor guard. that is, humans who didn't want to be part of the Imperium.

You can also have an "accidental" traitor guard who blindly lead someone who is secretly against the imperium - following Astelan, for example.

Ertle
06-05-2009, 01:14
Alternatively, they might like Sebastian Thor and the worlds he hailed from, believe the Imperium is a corruption of the Emperor's will and that they can make a new Imperium adhering to what the Emperor might have really wanted. You could have splinter sects of the Ecclesiarchy support this. Also, it wouldn't be out of the question for some Recongregator faction of the Inquisition to support such reform, if they believed it would aid humanity in the long run. Istvaanite Inquisitors might equally well support and aid but for different reasons.

I'm kinda liking this idea a lot. The Age of Apostasy is one of my favorite fluff pieces so I'm gonna go this route I think. I'll post what I have later.

Marshal2Crusaders
06-05-2009, 03:11
Separatists are the perfect place to make all of those themed armies inspired by other sci-fi universes. Clone Wars? Tau in Orcas or IG Vets in Valkries. Star Trek? Tau. Borg? Necrons. The list goes on and on. Your world doesn't always have to be a punching bag either, if they exist ont he fringe of the Imperium chances are they can do their own thing. Just don't have them ally with the Eldar of something.

Gustovic
09-05-2009, 17:54
I use the Non-Chaos Traitor Guard for the campaing that I'm playing in this two years.
The campaing is set in a sector with a few planets where there is only one of the Imperium.
This means that a Traitor guard can survive for, at least, a few years without being destroyed only if the planet where there is the rebellion is far away from the Imperium influence.
It is possibile, but you have to be luky if you want that your Traitor Guard survive.
And obiviously you have to stay in friendship with the Imperium and you have to do not war with it.

ambrosehlbiercemencken
09-05-2009, 18:25
Not a horrible deal if you aren't up to anything.


Uh by that logic the USA shouldve remained a colony, sometimes your political elite just notices that the grass is greener on the other side.


Well, you have a few options

They are in segmentum Pacificus, survived as independents until the 40th millennium when they were occupied by Macharius, regained their freedom after the death of Macharius - untouched by the 70 year Pacificus Crusade

or

They are in the Eastern Fringe beyond the Astronomicon :cool:


These are cool options. A nice little empire, maybe *gasp* something not quite as comically evil as the Imperium, would be a nice addition to the 40k faction lineup. They'd have to fight everyone in the vincinity for survival or even expansion, get a nice frontier feeling going.