PDA

View Full Version : Traitor Sisters of Battle?



dooombot
06-05-2009, 18:21
could it happen? i'm sure there are many ways that their faith in the emperor could be corrupted / twisted by Chaos...

Lewzardman
06-05-2009, 18:28
Women by design are fickle creatures, so I'd say it's by all means a possibility :p

*Braces self for incoming tide of slaps*

Succoros
06-05-2009, 18:34
Goddamn thats gotta be the fastest /Thread in a while tbh.

Helicon_One
06-05-2009, 18:38
Sure, yes, its supported by Daemonifuge for one.

Unfortunately its a subject often used as an excuse for people to talk slightly too enthusiastically about naked Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns...

The SkaerKrow
06-05-2009, 18:57
Unfortunately its a subject often used as an excuse for people to talk slightly too enthusiastically about naked Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns...What can I say, it's a very...amusing subject? :chrome:

Seriously though, Sisters of Battle can absolutely fall to the ways of Chaos. Really, the only group beyond the grip of the Chaos Gods are the Grey Knights, and that's because their lore specifically states that no Grey Knights have turned traitor.

Nexus Trimean
06-05-2009, 19:02
THe First Grey Knights Book (cant remember the name now) It is said that it does happen. So there is a Black Library (I know, I know) Fluff Justification for it.

DarkMatter2
06-05-2009, 19:03
A renegade sister of battle? Yes.

A body of traitors large enough to form an army? No. No. No.

Frep
06-05-2009, 19:05
In Cain's Last Stand there is a group of SoB corrupted by a chaos warlord. They haven't turned traitor but they are completely under his psychic influence. they were forced to be his personal bodyguard and storm troops. Though when the psychic control is broken they realize what they have done and hurl themselves off a cliff.
Another possible way for SoB to be corrupted by chaos may be through the influence of a chaos infected preacher/zealot, who convinces them the only way to stop chaos is to join it. (Sort of a fight fire with fire thing, which the SoB are fond of any way).

CraftworldsRus
06-05-2009, 19:09
Or simply a convent of sisters getting ready to repel what Cardinal has told is going to be foul invasion of Chaos Marines and Traitor guard, when in reality is is a company of Imperial Fists and Canadians making planetfall.

EDIT-Auto-spell check fail. I'm going to leave it though.

DarkMatter2
06-05-2009, 19:09
and Canadians making planetfall.

Even in the far distant future, those Canucks are still making trouble.

Shadow Marine
06-05-2009, 19:35
In the novel Grey Knights a regenade Inq convinces a whole planet (including SOB) that the GK are chaos, so technically these SOB's were fighting for the 'darkside'.

IMHO I don't think large amounts of SOB's would go bad but I do think that a female chaos cult may parady the SOB's.

Frostmane
06-05-2009, 19:52
Women by design are fickle creatures, so I'd say it's by all means a possibility :p

*Braces self for incoming tide of slaps*

Dude not cool.

Anyways, traitor Sisters are possible, but would be difficult to create and maintain. They are the Faithful, it is much easier to turn Imperial Guard and Space Marines than the Sisters. They are righteous zealots. They would rather kill themselves than fall victim. Even when a psyker forces them to do something against their will, it shatters them and they become Repentia Sisters who throw their lives away to find forgiveness. While you may get a squad of traitor sisters, you would never get an army.

I recommend reading Faith & Fire, it gives a great deal of background on the Sisters.

Bookwrak
06-05-2009, 20:10
THe First Grey Knights Book (cant remember the name now) It is said that it does happen. So there is a Black Library (I know, I know) Fluff Justification for it.
Actually there isn't. In the first Grey Knights book the protaginist has some self doubts, and wonders if his own weakness could lead him to be the first.

Hashshashin
06-05-2009, 20:14
...about naked Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns...

Did you say anything else in that post? I'm already picturing the models :eek:

Just kidding, I think in the Grim Dark Grim future anything grim is possible, and faithful servants of the emperor are clearly not above the taint.

Count de Monet
06-05-2009, 20:18
Blind Faith can't see where it might be headed...

qwertywraith
06-05-2009, 20:20
In the fluff only a single Sister has ever actually fallen to chaos (she has a card in the Horus Heresy game). Meanwhile to turn marines traitor all you have to do is beat them and they will beg to join your side (see the ridiculous fluff in the current CSM codex).

AdmiralDick
06-05-2009, 20:26
A renegade sister of battle? Yes.

A body of traitors large enough to form an army? No. No. No.

if one can fall, they all can. there is nothing to stop their being an entire army of Chaotic Battle Sister if a player should so choose to create them. though a more interesting concept for an army would be Chaotic agents who are the equivalent of SoB, but were not originally Sisters.

if you do a quick search you can pull up a number of threads worth reading on the subject. whilst tags were around i made a fair few connections, but sadly they have gone the way of the dodo.

Nexus Trimean
06-05-2009, 21:28
Actually there isn't. In the first Grey Knights book the protaginist has some self doubts, and wonders if his own weakness could lead him to be the first.

That happens too, however, as they are about to enter the deamons Lair Gargouloth or something like that the is a small Conversation between Alaric (the brother captain) and the Sister Superior of the Sisters of the bloody rose She states that some sisters have fallen though not often it happens, I dont have the book with me i will look up page number this evening.

dooombot
06-05-2009, 23:15
I might toy around with the Allies rule in WH, i think tainted SoB would be cool allies for CSM.

SimonL
06-05-2009, 23:21
Did you say anything else in that post? I'm already picturing the models

They exist...See the Beautiful Deadly Children

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7795

Bregalad
07-05-2009, 00:18
could it happen? i'm sure there are many ways that their faith in the emperor could be corrupted / twisted by Chaos...
Please search the forum for all those other "naked Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns" threads, as these kind of armies serve a general need among juvenile gamers :rolleyes:

Be aware that according to fluff, corrupting Sororitas is extremely hard and rare, esp. so for a whole group. And as traitors, they would of course lose all Emperor's blessings.

Kettu
07-05-2009, 05:33
*Sigh* Another on of these threads.

Ok, fluff wise according to codex; Only One Sister ever turned to chaos.
According to BL (Who really should force prospective authors to understand the background before they even hope to pick up a pen); What? They were loyal to start with?

dooombot
07-05-2009, 06:02
*Sigh* Another on of these threads.


Please search the forum for all those other "naked Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns" threads, as these kind of armies serve a general need among juvenile gamers

Well excuse me.

I am not interested in lesbian bondage nuns. I am interested in doing something with my 20 or so Battle Sisters and Serephim. I play CSM (side note: I play Slaanesh, so how the heck am I NOT interested in lesbian bondage nuns ?:wtf:) and thought it would be interesting to use my handful of SoB as Allies to my CSM. Now in an Apocalypse game I could use em, but I don't play too many of them, so i figured I could just tweak the rules in C:WH about using SoB as allies. I doubt i'd have to change much, just read SPace Marines as CHAOS Space Marines.

AS for Faith powers, change some words (Faith Points = Corruption Points), write-up how now they are channeling Chaos or something, and we're good to go.

GW fluff says this isn't likely? Oh, well all I need to do is write-up my OWN fluff as to why it DID happen, and we're good.

PS. As I see them in my head, they would be generic Chaos, reds and blacks, not Slaanesh themed. NOT LESBIAN BONDAGE NUNS.

Seth the Dark
07-05-2009, 06:12
Generic Chaotic Sisters would be pretty cool but it would be hard to see how they would turn traitor.

Ddraiglais
07-05-2009, 06:28
I do agree with most on this thread. It would be highly unlikely to have a large group of tainted SoB. On the other hand, I could see a dark mockery of the SoB. The Eye of Terror is immense. It has a highly varied population. I could see some radical Chaos followers that were granted gifts (faith points) by one of the Chaos gods and also happend to all be female. I don't know how they would get power armor and bolters though. Maybe they have connections to a hell forge or one of the legions? The power armor could be some kind of Chaos armor instead. This concept has all sorts of modelling possibilities, and they don't all have to be Slaaneshi lesbian bondage nuns.

Bregalad
07-05-2009, 10:43
I play CSM (side note: I play Slaanesh, so how the heck am I NOT interested in lesbian bondage nuns ?:wtf:) and thought it would be interesting to use my handful of SoB as Allies to my CSM.
Let's hope you never get a box of Grey Knights, Fire Warriors or Eldar then ;)

weissengel86
07-05-2009, 10:45
I also agree with the majority. Corrupted Sisters is so rare that only one sister ever turned to chaos. An entire force being corrupted is almost out of the question.

Realistically though it all depends on how much fluff bending your willing to do.

I like the idea that the "Sisters" aren't actually corrupted sisters but a purposeful mockery of them created by a faction of chaos. That would easily explain the similarity in rules and models without bending the fluff almost past breaking point. It actually makes a lot of sense too. Its exactly what chaos would do especially the Word Bearers.

zoggin-eck
07-05-2009, 10:58
I just think it's a boring, unoriginal idea.

You ask if it could happen. Have you read the codex, previous or any other fluff on them? It kind of answers your own question.

Nothing against you doing it, by writing your own history or just coming up with a reason to ally the models you already own.

The SkaerKrow
07-05-2009, 12:26
Actually, you're more likely to have an army of Sisters of Battle turn than you are an individual. Sisters work in convents and outpost shrines. If the doctrines of a shrine were to slowly stray from the light, eventually the whole of its attendants would drift into the arms of Chaos. Not a common occurance, but easily enough to justify a squad or three of corrupted Sisters of Battle in a Chaos army.

Lyinar
07-05-2009, 14:31
My idea for fallen Sororitas is that they fell to Chaos the same way the Emperor's Children did: The relentless search for perfection.

Slaanesh starts off by giving them what they want, the ability to fight better. The drugged-out naked lesbian bondage nuns stuff comes later.

phedge
07-05-2009, 15:52
The idea of fallen or corrupted Sisters has been floated so many times that it's become unoriginal. But, it's your army and if you can make it work in a unique way then go for it.

However, I think you'll find that if you study and immerse yourself in the backround fluff that already exists for the Sisters you'll find plenty that's fascinating and compelling. You can look at them as shining examples of Imperial purity and defenders of humanity, but you could also argue that they're 'fallen' already!

Sisters of Battle are one of my favorite armies and to me, there is nothing that illustrates the grim darkness of the 40K future quite like the Ordo Hereticus and the Ecclesiarchy. Think about it for a moment - Religous fanatics intent on purging the herectic with bolter, flamer, and melta all in the name of the Emperor. Worshipping the corpse of a man who fought a crusade to rid the galaxy of exactly this sort of blind religious superstition among Mankind! One could suppose that if the Emperor reawakened he might look around and put the Ecclesiarchy and the Sisters at the very top of his 'Purge List'.

rodmillard
07-05-2009, 23:32
I have played a game using my SOBs as fallen - although I should explain that this was a specific scenario versus grey knights where I used the adversary rules to have the cannoness posessed by a Lord Of Change. IMO Tzeentch is the power most likely to corrupt sisters, and it would be from the top down - take over the cannoness and the rest will follow blindly as the rituals change a little each day until the entire convent is worshipping chaos without even realising it

Dexter099
08-05-2009, 00:17
It has happened. Read one of the Ciaphas Cain books.

40kdhs
08-05-2009, 02:05
Will GKs be sent to eliminate these bad SoB?I doubt it because they are gentlement who don't hurt women. Does anybody agree?

SAMAS
08-05-2009, 03:27
Yes, it's possible.

And now, the prerequisite:

Chaos X AGAIN?

SimonL
08-05-2009, 03:36
Will GKs be sent to eliminate these bad SoB?I doubt it because they are gentlement who don't hurt women. Does anybody agree?

They're Space Marines lol, they'd happily burn an orphanage if it was corrupted. Where do people get the "chivalrous Marines" thing from, Astartes don't even remember what a woman looks like. They're all chemically neutered and brainwashed.

Templar Ben
08-05-2009, 03:59
faithful servants of the emperor are clearly not above the taint.

I found that funny.

Shouldn't this be in the Fluffer section?

Master Stark
08-05-2009, 04:11
Due to their blind and fervent faith, the Sisters would be extremely easy to 'corrupt'.

Now, by corrupt I don't necessarily mean 'convert to chaos'. I simply mean that they would be willing (indeed, happy) to kill the honest servants of the emperor.

All it would take is a five minute "We are the only ones to truly venerate the emperor, these Imperial Guard are heretics!" speech, and away they go.

Templar Ben
08-05-2009, 04:13
The same could be said of the Black Templars I suppose.

SimonL
08-05-2009, 04:27
The same could be said of the Black Templars I suppose.

Indeed, like this..

"Psst, that guy over there said the Emperor sucks"

"WHAT?!? CHAAAAAARGE!!!!"

MF3000
08-05-2009, 06:15
They're Space Marines lol, they'd happily burn an orphanage if it was corrupted. Where do people get the "chivalrous Marines" thing from, Astartes don't even remember what a woman looks like. They're all chemically neutered and brainwashed.

Hahahahahaha I laughed so hard at this!

But I agree with few others here, Sisters would be easy to influence because of their zeal; but on the whole, I think most leaders in the Sororitas would be rational 'enough' not to go on a witch hunt every time someone brought in a piece of news surrounding a 'heretic'. Even so, I think they would conduct a zeal fuelled orphanage pillaging with care and planning.

sj

SabrX
08-05-2009, 06:23
Ouch, despite all evidence of random fluff, it doesn't make entirely sense for the Sisters to turn dark side unless the Emperor kicks the bucket and ascend into the realm of chaos, becoming God of Order. Sisters of Battle are hardcore when it comes to faith and loyalty to the emperor. Their faith is stronger then Space Marines. It's like saying can the inquisition turn evil (by 40k standards).

Yes it's possible to have traitor Sisters of Battle but it's not plausible.

CEO Kasen
08-05-2009, 07:50
I see many condemning the idea as unoriginal, but at what point does an idea, however oft repeated, become less original than, say, someone taking and painting an Ultramarines force? Go for whatever makes your fancy laugh until it pukes up sheer whimsy.

Though I agree that I don't see Lesbian Bondage Nuns coming out of it altogether very easily(Though you really can justify damn near anything in 40K one way or another), what I can easily see are Sisters whose holy hatred has gone so far and gotten so much the better of them, seeing "Impurity" everywhere that must be purged, that they've eventually become endless, relentless slaughterers of men.

Slaanesh would not be the god most likely to grasp them. Khorne would.

Master Stark
08-05-2009, 08:23
Sisters of Battle are hardcore when it comes to faith and loyalty to the emperor. Their faith is stronger then Space Marines. It's like saying can the inquisition turn evil (by 40k standards).

Yes it's possible to have traitor Sisters of Battle but it's not plausible.

So what happens when they come across an IG regiment they consider 'lacking' in faith?

I imagine they would immolate them, for their own good of course. Only through the pain of immolation can they realise the error of their ways and recieve the Emperors forgiveness.

Thats the thing about extreme faith and zeal. When you think someone else is doing it wrong when it comes to religion, it's time to bust out the wooden stakes and the flamers.

Templar Ben
08-05-2009, 14:00
I see many condemning the idea as unoriginal, but at what point does an idea, however oft repeated, become less original than, say, someone taking and painting an Ultramarines force?

When it is the same TV Trope over and over. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysChaoticEvil

Here is the quote from The Order of The Stick.

Haley: Hey, wait a minute aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but Chaotic Good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: Evil kin? Didn't you just say they were all Chaotic Good?
Nale: Details.
The Order of the Stick

In the case of Chaos GK, Chaos SoB, Chaos Tau, or Chaos Eldar it is the opposite.

It is as original as playing D&D with your Chaotic Good Dark Elf Ranger.

ctsteel
08-05-2009, 14:24
while the basic assumption/fluff is that it happens extremely rarely, it is fairly simple to come up with ways that it could have happened. For example, a convent on an outpost world is lost, assumed destroyed, when in fact the sisters were taken prisoner rather than killed and subjected to unending brainwashing and indoctrination, until they break and become faithful servants of the true gods.

Or - take the Alpha Legion fluff in the chaos marines codex as an example, they managed to corrupt and destroy an entire space marine chapter by slowly infiltrating brainwashed people into the recruits, until (years later) a decent portion of the chapter were in fact their pawns, with subconscious programming and second personalities under the normal one. The alpha legion then come out and battle the chapter, broadcasting trigger phrases and causing those hidden personalities to emerge, ending in marine turning on marine. In the confusion the alpha legion destroy the remaining resistance, collect the traitors, execute the rest, and take all the geneseed.

If they can do that to a marine chapter, they can certainly do it to 'mere' humans, however faithful they may be. All they need is a reason to enact such a plan.....

CEO Kasen
08-05-2009, 15:33
It is as original as playing D&D with your Chaotic Good Dark Elf Ranger.

An illustrative comparison, the application of which to this scenario I would dispute two points, one of them anecdotal:

1) Your comparison basically plays straight into my Ultramarines analogy.

The Chaotic Good Dark Elf Ranger is extensively written about, publicized, popularized and overexposed in Forgotten Realms. He's everywhere in the books, which is part of why people find carbon copies of the character so damn annoying. In RPGs, carbon-copying a canon character is a sign of creative weakness.

Yet playing an existing force is carbon-copying a canon character right down to the name. As, say, Ultramarines, you're playing an existing force that's extensively written about, different only that in 40K it's not unexpected to pattern yourself after a canon force, to use canon characters. Does the fact that it's accepted practice make it any less unoriginal?

Chaos Sisters were never written about, which, almost by defintion, makes it more 'original' than playing a canon force.


2) Additionally, if it's so ubiquitously overplayed an idea, then how come in, what, 8 years of playing this bloody game on and off I've never once heard of it or seen it done? :p If this became an overexposed meme in the last 2 years, though, that might explain it; I've been out of the loop for a bit.


Nonetheless, that trope link seems interesting, and I thank you for it.

Templar Ben
08-05-2009, 16:44
Well the whole issue in D'rzzt is he is unique. Then he wasn't because everyone seemed to have one in their party.

If you play FoW is it not a sign of being non-creative to paint up the US 2nd Armored or the Afrika Korps. If you were to play Germans and toss in some UK Paratroopers as support it would be seen in about the same light as the traitor SoB. It makes no sense.

Understandably he wants to use his models in Apoc but that doesn't suddenly make the "my nuns are EVILLLLL" any less ridiculous.

I am not sure why you have not heard of it. It comes up often. As does fallen Grey Knights, chaos Tau, and Chaos Eldar.

CEO Kasen
08-05-2009, 16:57
Ahhhhh, Ohkay, I think I understand. So your concern isn't that the idea is uncreative so much as "It seems like a flimsy excuse to use my existing army in my Apocalypse game playing for the wrong side." The 'uncreativity' is simply in the throwing in of models onto a side. I can see that.

Answer me this: Would you consider someone who went and extensively modeled and Green Stuffed spikes, Chaos icons, and all sorts of proper Chaos goodness onto a Sisters force so that they could be proper Evil Sisters, so that, looking at them, there is no question which side they are on, to be equally uncreative?

zombied00d
08-05-2009, 17:00
Wait, don't Sisters Repentia already cover the whole lesbian bondage nun thing?

The only remotely reasonable justification I could see for "Traitor" SoB would be a bastardization of the chaos marine fluff applied to the Sisters of Battle: After Vandire was deposed a small ultra-loyal brainwashed clique fled into the Eye of Convenient Plot Cheats where they continue to range out and smite the false servants of the false Emperor.

And see, when it's put that way, even though it "works" it still sucks.

The SkaerKrow
08-05-2009, 17:06
If you play FoW is it not a sign of being non-creative to paint up the US 2nd Armored or the Afrika Korps. If you were to play Germans and toss in some UK Paratroopers as support it would be seen in about the same light as the traitor SoB. It makes no sense. It makes plenty of sense. We're talking about Warhammer 40K, a game in which everything and everyone is susceptable to the powers of Chaos in one form or another. In fact, one of the most unique things about the Grey Knights is the fact that they're one of the very few organizations that haven't lost any of their number to corruption. Traitor Sisters of Battle are no less feasible than traitor Space Marines, traitor Imperial Guard, fallen Inquisitors or any other corrupted Imperial organization. They fit in with the established canon of the game just fine.

MF3000
08-05-2009, 20:23
*head spinning* ahhh why is lesbian bondage thing compared with treason... patriarchal oppression of women on the internet?!?!? lol...

sj

ctsteel
08-05-2009, 21:07
It's an internet/nerdy teenage boy affectation simply because the sisters of battle are all female; for some reason "women only" is read as "girl on girl action", which is ridiculous.

The sisters of battle are as lesbian, as space marines are homosexual - ie they aren't. Sexuality doesn't enter into it for these two organisations, except in the minds of the people crouched over their keyboards and gaming tables. In fact both of those organisations pretty much shun and eradicate all of those thoughts and feelings as impurities which corrupt their faithful focus on war and worship of the emperor.

eyeolas
08-05-2009, 21:42
A long time ago I had this same idea. My fluff justification was it was a small renegade force that was following the apex twins (the fluff used to be on the GW site, but I don't know if its still there), and they regarded them as incarnate deities due to their imense power, or something along those lines

massey
08-05-2009, 22:02
The idea of Chaos Sisters is not original. However, I've never seen anyone actually do an army of them in real life. In that sense, going to the trouble to make an army of them is far more original than most armies.

But I don't really care about originality. It's been said that it is impossible to have an original thought anymore, that every single idea has already been had at one point or another in history. Being unoriginal doesn't make something bad. Few guys will go on a date with a girl (especially the 3rd date, the sex date) and say "nah, getting laid after the third date is so unoriginal, I'd prefer if we just made macaroni and cheese and you showed me pictures of your vacation with your cat". Originality is overrated.

Peril
08-05-2009, 23:04
Why do they have to be Soriatas? Why can't they just be a convent of evil chaos priestesses?

In any event, it is your army and they are your models. Don't let the fluff national socialists get you down.

weissengel86
08-05-2009, 23:07
It's an internet/nerdy teenage boy affectation simply because the sisters of battle are all female; for some reason "women only" is read as "girl on girl action", which is ridiculous.

The sisters of battle are as lesbian, as space marines are homosexual - ie they aren't. Sexuality doesn't enter into it for these two organisations, except in the minds of the people crouched over their keyboards and gaming tables. In fact both of those organisations pretty much shun and eradicate all of those thoughts and feelings as impurities which corrupt their faithful focus on war and worship of the emperor. The way I think of it. Introducing sexuality into these organizations is silly and a mistake. Doesnt matter what sexuality.

Space Marines and Sisters are essentially Celibate. Sexuality is simply not a part of their lifestyles. They pray, train, eat, fight, and die. They are zealous and beyond anything but devoting all of their mind and body and lives 100% to eliminating the enmies of the Imperium.

Also I totally disagree with the idea that because the Sisters are zealous they woudl be easy to corrupt. That is simply not true and goes against the fluff. Zeal is not unthinking. The Grey Knights and Sisters may be fanatically devoted to the Emperor and may serve the imperium without hesitation they dont just do what any inquisitor or Imperial leader tells them to. Notice how the GK cant be used with a Radical Inquisitor? Its because the Gk refuse to work with Heretics or radicals. The Sisters are the same. Just because a priest or Inquisitor tells them to do something doesnt mean they would follow their directions. In fact the Inquisitor or Ecclesiarchy representative risks being killed right then and there for heresy.

For Sisters being corrupted you need a damn good reason. Saying willy nilly they are zealous therefore can be misled is not a damn good reason.

Nexus Trimean
08-05-2009, 23:32
In Previous Fluff A Rogue Inquisitor Ordered arounf a Planet's Worth of Guardsmen and som SoB's, Granted the sister stopped after they saw they were fighting Grey knights and realized they had been duped. (Hilarious and Awesome moment in there when the Grey knight finishes the Prayer of one of the sisters. while in CC)

CEO Kasen
09-05-2009, 02:11
The idea of Chaos Sisters is not original. However, I've never seen anyone actually do an army of them in real life. In that sense, going to the trouble to make an army of them is far more original than most armies.

Yeah, that's seems to be pretty much it exactly. Besides, how can it be the Drizz't of WH40K if no one's ever actually seen someone go to the trouble of painting and converting proper Chaos Sisters?

That might make it more like Doomsday than Drizz't; Prophets and conspiracy nutjobs talk and talk and talk about it and it never actually comes to pass.

Lord Cook
09-05-2009, 02:35
It has happened. Read one of the Ciaphas Cain books.

Misleading, verging on being outright wrong.

In the book a convent of Sisters are being psychically controlled by an immensely powerful Chaos psyker. They are effectively puppets, with no free will or individuality at all. As soon as they are freed they lose their minds with grief. Similarly, a Commissar being controlled in the same way is freed, and he immediately commits suicide when he realises he cannot shake off the taint.

Templar Ben
09-05-2009, 03:05
You don't see it because it takes some work and anytime someone asks everyone points out the idea is lame. Maybe you just haven't seen how often it comes up. It is not just here either.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=73050
http://forums.relicnews.com/archive/index.php/t-95042.html
http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5965
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/220464.page
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/warhammer40kdawnofwar2/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-49098274&pid=945727


And yes it has been done
http://polyticks.com/lotn/cheese.htm
http://polyticks.com/lotn/meet.htm

CEO Kasen
09-05-2009, 03:54
Interesting. Not very good pictures, mind, making it very hard to see the work; and the text is a bit rambling, but they seem to have a variety of at least moderately justified "counts-as" theorems.

I stand corrected on the notion that the idea has never been cast into models; but that's still 1 actual Chaos Sisters player to thousands and thousands of Ultramarines and Blood Angels players. I'd still laud the creativity of someone who actually did it well more than I'd laud a person who did, say, the Iron Warriors with equal craft.

In response to your earlier comparison about the Afrika Corps, Templar Ben: That playing a standard force in a game is perfectly accepted practice for the game doesn't make it any less uncreative; but that's really okay. Not everyone prioritizes uniqueness, and we're all drawn to this hobby for different reasons. I simply feel that if your reasons draw you to playing angry demon-worshipping nuns with flamethrowers and flagrant spikes, that that's okay too. The 40K universe is very much a universe where anything is possible as long as it's at least tangentially related to mass violence.

I simply found fault with your notion that someone attempting to do something that is not typically done with an army is more "unoriginal" than a person who plays right out of the Codex.

Templar Ben
09-05-2009, 04:19
Most ideas are "not done" but that doesn't make the idea novel.

Sure people say that in 40K anything is possible but that doesn't mean that Tyranids should work with Space Marines and fight the combined might of Eldar and Slaanesh Chaos. There is a limit before it just become a wall banger (look that up on TV tropes). Besides "anything is possible" is a marketing line. :p

I don't see taking an army and saying "but mine is evil!!" as being creative. Taking a Codex army and making it exactly as detailed in the background is not necessarily creative as the goal is to reproduce a particular army. The enjoyment in those circles is ensuring the company markings are correct and the squads are detailed properly.

CEO Kasen
09-05-2009, 04:40
Most ideas are "not done" but that doesn't make the idea novel.

Sure people say that in 40K anything is possible but that doesn't mean that Tyranids should work with Space Marines and fight the combined might of Eldar and Slaanesh Chaos. There is a limit before it just become a wall banger (look that up on TV tropes).

And there may well be that limit, somewhere (though I'm having some trouble finding it) but you seem to be prejudicially dismissing the concept as lame before even seeing its execution, refusing to look past the two words "Chaos Sisters" and ignoring any possibility or hope of Fridge Brilliance; (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeBrilliance) dismissing the possibility that someone might just do it right, just because someone might just do it wrong.



I don't see taking an army and saying "but mine is evil!!" as being creative.

Sure, it'd be lame to just say, "But they're evil!" and not model it, fluff it up, or pen it out; But enough work could transform it into a grand little piece. After all, when you think about it, saying "Space Vikings" almost sounds as silly, but some fine work turned them into one of my favorite 40K personalities, the Space Wolves.

Old tropes are sometimes done in fresh and interesting ways. Since everything's been done, as someone stated on this thread, they pretty much have to be, or we'd stop watching TV/reading stories altogether.

Assuming that the execution will be as lackluster as you conceive is actively anticreative.



Taking a Codex army and making it exactly as detailed in the background is not necessarily creative as the goal is to reproduce a particular army. The enjoyment in those circles is ensuring the company markings are correct and the squads are detailed properly.

I agree! Some people prefer that, and that's okay too. People enjoy different things about this weird and wonderful game, and that it has so many such facets is one of the things that keeps players playing.

I'm not saying creativity is necessarily the Most Holy Goal Which Condemns All Who Fail To Bask In Its Glory. It's not, not for everyone. But it is a joy for me in particular to face an unusual persona across the table, to battle with the strangest things that players' minds come up with.

As soon as one quashes or dismisses ideas like this, one dismisses any possibility that something interesting may come of it. And this is why I take issue with your words: You're salting fields of the mind - and to what end?


Besides "anything is possible" is a marketing line. :P

I play a corporate mastermind; that strikes me as fitting. :D



To the original poster, I say once more: Ignore the naysayers. Go for whatever you want marching across your tabletop.

Lyinar
09-05-2009, 05:06
Well, my Fallen Sororitas were the Traitor-MEQ's in a Lost and the Damned army, and thus very limited in numbers.

Again, they had fallen to Slaanesh the same way the Emperor's Children did, the offer of "perfection". The other Slaaneshi things came well afterward, like they did with the Emperror's Children.

Khorne would appeal to their martial honour, and Tzeentch would subtly corrupt them, but the Sisters of Battle seem to be in special danger of falling to Slaanesh above all others because of their constant quest to be the absolute most badass servants of the Emperor.

Templar Ben
09-05-2009, 05:09
To what end? Internal consistancy.

I am in general against several of the armies that exist (Elves IN SPAAACE!!!, Dark Elves IN SPAAACE!!!, jump to mind) but to take some of the basic framework and toss is out is you leaving the setting.

If you want to drop some of the key parts of the fluff then you can but you will get that response as what you are doing is not internally consistent with the setting just as UK Paratroops accidently working with Nazi's is not internally consistent with WW2 settings.

Naturally it is his army and he can do what he wants and it doesn't matter but let's not think that it is anything new as it comes up so often.

Tsear
09-05-2009, 05:15
If Horus can fall, GK and SoB can fall.

Templar Ben
09-05-2009, 05:47
Even though that is not supported in the background?

Okay

wolf40k
09-05-2009, 06:06
There was an entire Order of Sisters that fell to Slaanesh in the fluff.
They were represented in the short lived card game.

There were even a few in the Deamonfuge comic.
Really if someone at least painted their models to be chaosy, and they were modeled with the correct weapons, I wouldn't argue that they weren't chaos marines.
its a game for fun, and if they had fun by playing with girl chaos marines then let them.

Lord Cook
09-05-2009, 06:49
If Horus can fall, GK and SoB can fall.

No Grey Knight has ever fallen. The existence of Chaos was poorly understood before the Heresy. The Imperium was not prepared in the way it is now. Grey Knights are incorruptible.

Bregalad
09-05-2009, 08:11
Chaos is known for its fantasies of omnipotence (and bad memory). So are its gamers ;)
"Background will fall!" :D

htj
09-05-2009, 09:37
It's always Slaanesh, isn't it? Lyinar makes a good point there, but generally it seems to be more of a deep breathing, sweaty fingered, flecks of foam at the mouth motive that causes people to talk about Chaos Sisters.

Yes, Sisters could indeed fall, but make Slaaneshi Sisters and people are going to give you THAT look.

FreightyMaximus
09-05-2009, 09:45
certainly seems possible, i mean if marines can fall so can sisters although i think it would take alot more to make a sister fall to chaos

ivrg
09-05-2009, 10:15
Fantastic looking army. I have seen another slannesh army that was being built up with SoB modells. Work very well. But they dont have any special rules. Should the women be so exatic about their cleansing for the emperor that slannesh got a hold on their psyche?
Reversed faith points? They now belive in Slannesh so hard they channel his powers.

Damien 1427
09-05-2009, 10:37
Misleading, verging on being outright wrong.

In the book a convent of Sisters are being psychically controlled by an immensely powerful Chaos psyker. They are effectively puppets, with no free will or individuality at all. As soon as they are freed they lose their minds with grief. Similarly, a Commissar being controlled in the same way is freed, and he immediately commits suicide when he realises he cannot shake off the taint.

I thought the control effectively "infected" them, and the commissar in question was only able to shrug it off whilst an untouchable was practically next to him. When that was removed, he went back to being a frothing loon.
There was also the massive army said Chaos Warlord (Who was the weakest point of the novel, being Totally Not Space Hitler) brought with him were still corrupted, to a man, after he had been killed.

I think the idea of Sisters of Slaanesh is a bit overplayed, at least in these discussions, myself.

Now, Tzneetch-themed Sisters? Manipulative and forever changing their minds? Sounds like women to me. :p

Panzerkanzler
09-05-2009, 12:14
Interesting thread this. I've always believed that the most zelous and unquestioning persons are the easiest to corrupt...since they use their brains the least. It seems to be so in real life at any lenght.

CEO Kasen
09-05-2009, 12:44
*Spits out his coffee, along with several major vertebrae, which is probably a good reason to stop drinking Spine Coffee(tm)*

......DAMIEN?!

htj
09-05-2009, 13:24
Interesting thread this. I've always believed that the most zelous and unquestioning persons are the easiest to corrupt...since they use their brains the least. It seems to be so in real life at any lenght.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates... something, something. Dang, was doing well up until then.

The impression is given that blind, unquestioning faith in the Emperor is the best defence against Chaotic influence. Sure, that's Imperial propaganda, but if it were causing more people to turn, I doubt they'd keep it up.

Real life and 40K don't really talk much anymore. Not even a card at Christmas.

Damien 1427
09-05-2009, 15:10
*Spits out his coffee, along with several major vertebrae, which is probably a good reason to stop drinking Spine Coffee(tm)*

......DAMIEN?!

Ahoy-hoy.


An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates... something, something. Dang, was doing well up until then.

An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates open and defences unmanned. Or words to that effect.

Lord Cook
09-05-2009, 16:15
I thought the control effectively "infected" them, and the commissar in question was only able to shrug it off whilst an untouchable was practically next to him. When that was removed, he went back to being a frothing loon.
There was also the massive army said Chaos Warlord (Who was the weakest point of the novel, being Totally Not Space Hitler) brought with him were still corrupted, to a man, after he had been killed.

Yes, but none of that contradicts what I said, it just goes into a bit more detail. I didn't say the effect could be cured, merely that when someone realises he cannot be cured, he takes drastic action.

Mosedeke
09-05-2009, 16:51
An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded.

I heard that far too often in that game.

I've been thinking of doing Chaos sisters myself. I want some sort of Chaos army since I already have Xenos and Imperials, and I love the Faith-points system of the Sisters. Doing them as CSM with converted IG cultists with a handy chart showing what counts as is the easy way, but I've been thinking of how fun and awesomely time consuming it would be to completely convert a sisters army. Probably to a Nurgle & Khorne force, though I love Tzeentch's "faces screaming out of armor" look. I hold no interest in Slaneesh Sisters myself.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
09-05-2009, 19:27
It's like saying can the inquisition turn evil (by 40k standards).

The Inquisition is evil. The point is to show the horrors of faith and fanaticism gone too far.

weissengel86
10-05-2009, 03:55
The Inquisition is evil. The point is to show the horrors of faith and fanaticism gone too far. Except pacifists and peace lovers or compassionate people usually end up being killed very very horribly and are easy targets for chaos warbands or ork waaghs or many many other xenos or warp based entities who could care less how nice of a person you are.

I would hardly call it faith taken too far in 40k. I cant tell you how many times in the fluff ive read faith or fanaticism saving the characters not the opposite. If the real world was like 40k I wouldnt hesitate to send planets to exterminatus if I knew that if I didnt a warp breach would occur and make the virus eater deaths look like disneyland.