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Mannimarco
07-05-2009, 00:05
hi ive just started thinking about what would happen if a tyranid fleet attacked a world and unleashed a daemon horde?

we have been told in the past (this may be retconned) that daemons can only really manifest in areas where there is a strong belief in them, failing that they can be drawn in by mass slaughter and carnage or through weak willed psykers

now imagine what would happen if the nids showed up, your average citizen isnt going to have a clue what it is and will probably just ao assume these monsters that are killing everybody must be the daemons so theres belief covered, tyranids cause mass destruction whereever they turn up, assuming this planes has felt chaos before its safe to assume the barriers will be weak meaning can return if the right situation arises so thats mass carnage covered

so what would happen if the daemons were to meet the tyranids on a planet? would the nids just get fed up fighting an enemy that cant be eaten and absorbed and leave, would they batter each other to a standstill until the daemons cant hold on and shift back to the warp? is it even possible for daemons to manifest because of the shadow in the warp?

Eldarion
07-05-2009, 00:11
There is some Artwork in the Mini rule book of a battle between Khorne and Nidz its pretty cool, i think its a blood thirster kicking genestealer ****. Just let them kill each other i say! So when they are both weak the ultramarines will jump them and claim more awards.......

Mannimarco
07-05-2009, 00:44
yeah ive seen it, thinks its a thirster with its whip wrapped around a carnifex head or somthing, totally forgot that

w00tm0ng3r
07-05-2009, 01:35
I'd say the daemons literally kick the nids' asses to hell and back. The daemons have a quality edge and unlike most armies that have it, daemons are at least in the same league numbers-wise as the nids. Any kind of greater daemon will rip the nids to shreds in droves because they don't really have anything comparable (carnifex vs bloodthirster... well I think we all know how easily bloodthirster wins that one). MMmmmm... I actually want to see what a Great Unclean One can do to an entire army consisting exclusively of biological organisms :skull: Also, daemons have no physical presence or bio-matter so even if they do lose the nids don't get anything out of it after expending a whole lot of effort, the daemons will just respawn after a while anyway, and Khorne is happy because a planet full of blood just got spilled for him. However way you slice it, daemons take the cake.

mchmr6677
07-05-2009, 02:16
Remember in these considerations that the "Shadow in the Warp" actually cuts a planet off from access to the warp. This would make it very difficult for daemons to even get through to the planet in the first place.

As far as what might happen? Well, tyranids will generally try and kill anything they encounter, so I don't imagine they would be too quick to just leave the daemons alone. The daemons on the other hand, would likely realise that since the nids have no souls, that there really isn't much reason for them to fight them in the first place.

baphomael
07-05-2009, 02:20
hi ive just started thinking about what would happen if a tyranid fleet attacked a world and unleashed a daemon horde?

we have been told in the past (this may be retconned) that daemons can only really manifest in areas where there is a strong belief in them, failing that they can be drawn in by mass slaughter and carnage or through weak willed psykers



That first assumption isnt correct. Chaos doesnt thrive on belief (since chaos existed before most realised chaos existed). Rather chaos thrives of emotions (specifically rage, despair, hope and pleasure).

Daemons will manifest, pretty much, anywhere the barrier between the warp and realspace is weakened. This can occur throuhg a number of reasons - a cult's rituals, a mass blood sacrifice - even the sheer horror of a mass total-war can weaken the barriers between warp and realspace (because, naturally, a "WWI/II-but-on-crack" is going to evoke a lot of the emotions associated with chaos).


Remember in these considerations that the "Shadow in the Warp" actually cuts a planet off from access to the warp. This would make it very difficult for daemons to even get through to the planet in the first place.
.

Not quite - the shadow in the warp doesnt block psychic activity (which would be counter-productive, given the whole tyranid race revolves around a psychic gestalt conciousness - the hive mind couldnt function without psychic powers).
Rather, the hive fleets create the shadow in the warp through the sheer mindblowing mass of psychic activity going on - every 'nid is linked together, through psychic synapse networks, and the sheer volume of psychic activity drowns out other psychic activity - worlds that are attacked by the nids arnt psychicaly cut-off they just cant communicate through the 'white noise' of the hive mind.

w00tm0ng3r
07-05-2009, 02:36
Remember in these considerations that the "Shadow in the Warp" actually cuts a planet off from access to the warp. This would make it very difficult for daemons to even get through to the planet in the first place.

As far as what might happen? Well, tyranids will generally try and kill anything they encounter, so I don't imagine they would be too quick to just leave the daemons alone. The daemons on the other hand, would likely realise that since the nids have no souls, that there really isn't much reason for them to fight them in the first place.

Well the Shadow in the Warp thing should theoretically prevent daemons from being on the planet in the first place, so unless it was a really powerful horde against a really weak/small splinter fleet daemons vs nids probably wouldn't happen. The other option is the nids mess up REALLY badly and end up getting sucked into the warp itself through the eye of terror or something at which point I don't think anyone can really argue that they have a chance against the daemons...

As for daemon attitudes towards nids:
Khornate daemons will kill the nids to spill their blood for Khorne (I'm about 99% sure nid ichor/bodily fluid counts as blood in Khorne's eyes)
Slaanesh daemons will either try to forcibly mate with the nids or kill them for fun.
Nurgle daemons will try to experiment on the living things and/or just kill them by being there (once again, Great Unclean One + nid swarm = epic win:D)
And the nids are alive so Tzeentch daemons will try to change that :p

Mannimarco
07-05-2009, 02:42
cool cool, cant remember where i got that thing about belief being neccesary for daemon summoning, may be the old index thing in white dwarf about daemons

so we're settled on the daemons would appear because of a weakening of the barriers because of the mass carnage being caused by the nids, daemons turn up and kick ass before butchering any surviving citizens on said planet

on a somewhat related topic, how do the nids feel about the warp? arnt they drawn to psychic energy? and that is pretty much all the warp is

TheOverlord
07-05-2009, 05:13
Hmm... wouldn't the Shadow of the Warp jumble any sort of concerted openings for a Daemon incursion? Unless it's already a Daemon world and the nids sort of stumbled onto it.

GeneralDisaster
07-05-2009, 06:26
Hmm... wouldn't the Shadow of the Warp jumble any sort of concerted openings for a Daemon incursion? Unless it's already a Daemon world and the nids sort of stumbled onto it.

I have to ask how it is possible to 'stumble' onto a world that is;

a. Spurting blood everywhere?
b. Spurting Slaaneshi 'fluids' everywhere? (Need a low-cost fertility treatment? Come to Slaanesh world-for the low cost of your sanity!)
c. Spurting yellow lemon codfish chicken bombs named Stuart the Thwenty-Third earl of Gravy?
d. Sneezing on the rest of the solar system?

Bloody hell, if the Tyranids just 'stumble' onto something that disruptive, they could probably hear Yuri (Red Alert 2) talking loud and clear!

ARVO
07-05-2009, 06:32
A Red Alert 2 referance!!!! My life is complete. I don't quite get the joke though. Something to with his mind control?

Anyway, back on topic. The Shadow in the Warp blocks off warp communication. That would imply that wherever they go, the warp is calmed....OR maybe the shadow is a "bubble" of sorts. Inside, the warp could be as violent as ever, but isolated from the outside universe. The latter is more plausible to me simply because we have to justify some way for Tyranids to fight Daemons. Its our duty as Warhammer players.

GeneralDisaster
07-05-2009, 06:35
Remember, Yuri spoke exceedingly quietly?

Romanov: "THIS IS MY ADVISOR YURI!"
Yuri Oh sod off, you fatty Russian *****.

massey
07-05-2009, 17:01
The Shadow in the Warp is the phenomenon that has been observed by Imperial scholars where communication is cut off due to the high amount of "static" produced by the Nids. It's like trying to talk to your friend at a rock concert. Or trying to make a cell phone call during an emergency. You get the "all lines are currently busy" recording.

Whether that effects demons is unknown.

I disagree that demons will simply crush nids through sheer numbers. When demons manifest physically, they come on through with flesh and blood just like anybody else. I mean, do you seriously think a khorne demon wouldn't have blood? Or a slaanesh demon wouldn't have flesh? Nids eating that stuff might become possessed or might just adapt. Don't know.

It really just depends on the size of the hive fleet and the size of the demonic incursion. Genestealers will stomp bloodletters. A tooled out carnifex can beat a bloodthirster. A flying hive tyrant is still the nastiest HQ in the game, for my money. So I think the outcome of any battle would be dependant entirely upon the makeup of each force.

Mannimarco
07-05-2009, 17:07
ive always imagined any daemons that do actually die dont just fall over dead, they immediately shift back to the warp so a genestealer may kill a bloodletter but there will be nothing for a ripper to eat as its material body has already shifted back the moment it died

Quetch
07-05-2009, 19:40
what about if the ‘nids in hive fleet leviathan attacked the giant necron tomb world shown in the 'cron codex; which just happens to be in their path? the shear amount of awesome released would probably cause a daemonic incursion, thus making it a 3 sided battle, with each side having almost infinite resources to draw upon, and yet not a single soul between them :p

ofcourse, this would never actually happen, as marneus calgar would simply walk in there by himself and b**** slap all 3 sides silly :rolleyes: :eyebrows:

w00tm0ng3r
07-05-2009, 21:24
what about if the ‘nids in hive fleet leviathan attacked the giant necron tomb world shown in the 'cron codex; which just happens to be in their path? the shear amount of awesome released would probably cause a daemonic incursion, thus making it a 3 sided battle, with each side having almost infinite resources to draw upon, and yet not a single soul between them :p

ofcourse, this would never actually happen, as marneus calgar would simply walk in there by himself and b**** slap all 3 sides silly :rolleyes: :eyebrows:

This would be the most awesome thing ever (all the evil armies in one gigantic battle royale! except the dark eldar, but they don't count seeing as how they haven't even merited a new codex in forever)... but it won't ever happen on a pure tomb world. The nids wouldn't gain anything from attacking an entire powerful race with not a shred of biomatter or DNA between them (I'm assuming for the sake of argument that pariahs aren't interred in tomb worlds) so they wouldn't attack a tomb world. Necrons also have: no blood to spill for Khorne, nothing to ******* for the daemonettes :p, nothing to infect for Nurgle, and Tzeentch is probably smart enough to let the necrons destroy their mutual enemies (eldar/imperium).

HOWEVER, if it was a tomb world in the style of DoW, where the necrons are buried in the earth and mortal races built on top of them, then it could happen. Nids come in to claim the mortals, find the dark eldar already there raiding their biomatter, they start fighting, necrons wake up due to the commotion, and then the resulting three way causes enough chaos to bring daemons into the fray! Finally, the ultrasmurfs find a new STC that lets them build a variant of the standard Tactical Dreadnought armor. Marneus Calgar then field tests the newly rediscovered Planetary Landing and Occupation Terminator Armor by dropping in from orbit... without a pod (there's a reason Planetary Landing is in the name you know). He then proceeds to annihilate everything single-handedly with the godlike P.L.O.T. Armor and another tome of his exploits gets written up and put in Maccrage.

Talos
07-05-2009, 22:46
I am not sure how the daemons would far with the shadow the Warp. But if we look at Daemons for a fluff prospect and not gametop then they would own the nids.
In fluff Daemons are just stupily powerful, with daemon princes able to destroy whole armies with just a gaze but of course you cant have that in gametop. A daemonhost was able to take down a titan so I sure a free daemon would be able to wreak massive damage on a nid horde.
Although I think Nids have the advantage of numbers sure there are untold numbers of daemons but it does take alot for them to come though the warp and they cant last for that long.

w00tm0ng3r
08-05-2009, 01:15
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/bloodt.htm
This guy could probably take on the entire nid horde by himself... His name is Ang'garath the Unbound and he's one of Khorne's greatest servants. He burned ENTIRE WORLDS and killed millions both times he was summoned. If you check Imperial Armor, the guy's in-game stats are ridiculous, though he does cost 888 points.

And then if that's not enough, there's always Ka'Bandha. You know, that one uber bloodthirster that went toe-to-toe with fething Sanguinus and won... Well the first time anyway he beat down Sanguinus, broke his legs, and raped 500 of his blood angels with one swipe of his axe (the second time he got owned after wailing on Sang for a bit). Think about that. This badass **** took out a PRIMARCH and then schooled half a chapter's worth of spess mehreens with ONE blow. No amount of nids can stand up to that kind of power, and I doubt even Marneus Calgar has enough plot armor to take on a foe who can go wing-to-wing with Sanguinus.

Mannimarco
08-05-2009, 01:36
if we're going game wise then the nids must also have access to bio titans, these things cost 1250 points or somthing like that, are obscenely powerful and the nids arnt limited to one of them when it comes to attacking a planet

ARVO
08-05-2009, 02:18
Well first of all, the Tyranids avoid tomb worlds, so the Nids vs. en masse Necrons really isnt an option.

And I dont think you guys are giving the Tyranids enough credit. The Demons dont neccesarily have an edge in numbers. This is a hive fleet were talking about. There are more gaunts there than there are bolter and las rounds combined on macragge.

As for Angraath. Yes, he is insanely powerful...BUT those Bio-titans the Tyranids can dish out would give him a run for his money if he had to take on three or four. (Which is certainly feasible.)

And Ka'banda? Come on man. No one has seen him for ten thousand years. I bet hes not done with jail time for dropping the ball during the heresy.

SimonL
08-05-2009, 02:20
Plus the Dominatrix might join the Slaaneshi side... :D

Quetch
08-05-2009, 20:32
The nids wouldn't gain anything from attacking an entire powerful race with not a shred of biomatter or DNA between them (I'm assuming for the sake of argument that pariahs aren't interred in tomb worlds) so they wouldn't attack a tomb world.


Well first of all, the Tyranids avoid tomb worlds, so the Nids vs. en masse Necrons really isnt an option.

presumably even tyranids need metals. we have iron in our blood, so they probably have some equivalent; I know the tau have cobalt…

The most epic battle ever must be possible! ;)

The Song of Spears
08-05-2009, 20:45
From codex Tyranids, "All the organisms that can channel the commands of the Hive Mind are potent psykers, and communicate with their brethren not by language by by and instinctive telepathy. That such a concentration of psykers can exist without drawing clouds of the Daemons of Chaos into the material universe is a testament to either the potency of the Tyranids psychic ability's or the cold voids in place of their souls."

so it sound like chaos does not pick up tyranids on their radar or the nids psykers are just too much for chaos to warp in with.

Mannimarco
08-05-2009, 23:29
now that is scary, either chaos doesnt pick them up (possible as they are a different kind of psyker chaos is used to) or the hive mind is far to powerful for chaos itself to latch onto

Temmy
09-05-2009, 04:38
Maybe Tyranids don't have a complex mind that would attract demons. Perhaps the Hive mind is more akin to a complex set of interactions between animals acting on instinct. Without the emotional stew of sentience that creates ripples in the warp, there is nothing to attract daemons. Its rather like putting a lake of water into the middle of the ocean..the lake is there, but its indistinguishable from the background. Maybe this is what creates the shadow in the warp..the vast concentration of instinctive minds creating an enforced calm that prevents manipulation of warp energies by non tyranids.

|iG| Vertigo
12-05-2009, 14:58
I'd say the daemons literally kick the nids' asses to hell and back. The daemons have a quality edge and unlike most armies that have it, daemons are at least in the same league numbers-wise as the nids.

Are they? When a Tyranid hive fleet attacks a well-defended Imperial world, they have to contend with the Imperial navy and orbital defence batteries. In these cases, often just a fraction of the bio-ships are able to unload their cargos, and this still results in an infestation of literally millions of aliens - just look at what happened on Macragge, one of the most heavily defended worlds in the Imperium.
Daemon incursions can be huge, certainly, but without a navy at their command, the daemons would be facing the entire Tyranid hive fleet. The aliens could literally blanket every square inch of the planet with organisms in just a few hours, and have many times that number to spare.
And even against a heavily depleted fleet, even the most titanic daemonic incursion would likely be heavily outnumbered. Much like humans, daemons are still limited by the need to raise an army - they aren't one gestalt consciousness and even amongst followers of the same god their allegiance to the commanding greater daemon is by no means guaranteed.



Any kind of greater daemon will rip the nids to shreds in droves because they don't really have anything comparable (carnifex vs bloodthirster... well I think we all know how easily bloodthirster wins that one). MMmmmm... I actually want to see what a Great Unclean One can do to an entire army consisting exclusively of biological organisms :skull:

Uh, no. Take a look in the Codexes. A Bloodthirster is very unlikely to face even a single Carnifex without taking heavy damage - the 'Fex is stronger and equally tough (tougher with upgrades). Then consider the fact that Greater Daemons are fairly rare, whereas a single Tyranid hiveship contains hundreds of Carnifexes. And this is before even factoring in Hive Tyrants, Genestealers and Bio-Titans...
As for the power of Nurgle versus the entirely biological army of Tyranids... well, how is that any different from any other race, Necrons excepted? A Baneblade isn't much use if the crew are all dead. Given their ability to constantly evolve to react to emerging threats, if anything Tyranids have better defences against Nurgle's attentions than most races.


Also, daemons have no physical presence or bio-matter so even if they do lose the nids don't get anything out of it after expending a whole lot of effort, the daemons will just respawn after a while anyway.

Daemons do have a physical presence, they knit their bodies out of warp matter. I could be wrong on this, but as I understand it, daemonic bodies (and the elements they're comprised of) don't just vanish back into the warp with the daemon's consciousness when they're slain - at the very least they leave a puddle of goop behind. There's no reason to suggest that the Tyranids can't make use of this warp matter just as they do more conventional biological matter. Also, daemons don't strip bare the planets they conquer, so there will usually be something to gain for the 'Nids.
As for daemons respawning, it's not like Unreal Tournament, the received wisdom is that a slain daemon is banished for a thousand years. The alien invasion will have been destroyed or consumed the galaxy and moved on by the time a defeated daemon can manifest itself again.
Tyranids can 'respawn' in their own fashion rather more quickly than that, because of course dead Tyranids are recovered during the planet consumption process to create more Tyranids.

Fulgrim's Gimp
12-05-2009, 19:18
The Unspeakable in pursuit of the Uneatable to quote old Oscar?

ReveredChaplainDrake
13-05-2009, 06:13
From what I understand, Daemons aren't entirely made of just dust, ash, and warp voodoo. Mentioned before are the obvious points that Khorne Daemons are made of blood and Slaaneesh Daemons are made of flesh. To some extent, Tzeentch and Nurgle are also made of bio-matter. Though that bio-matter is either evolving or rotting out of control, meat is meat. In the Daemon codex, there are stories about some of the mook Daemons actually dying or suffering mortal-esque injuries. Skarbrand can't fly anymore due to injuries to his wings. Karnak can actually eat other Daemons. For a lesser instance, the Masque suffered from fatigue once. Daemons probably are made of bio-matter of some kind. It's just that their essence generally can survive a lot more than their bodies can. In the case of a Tyranid hive fleet fighting a Chaos Daemon force, the same Bloodletter could die a dozen times and just keep getting manifested again and again and again. In the same fight, potentially. It's the same idea as Daemon Princes claiming to be "immortal", even though they can get gunned apart by every race's basic armaments, including (and in fact especially) Tyranids.

On the flip side, some Chaos powers can actually influence Tyranids. This is especially possible if a Hive Ship crashes on a Daemon World. The Synapse Creatures would get slaughtered, thus silencing the static in the warp and allowing for the daemonic powers to operate again. Specifically, Tzeentch would love to get his hands into some of the bio-matter that makes up the Tyranids, augmenting its rate of mutation higher and higher. Nurgle would be intrigued by the Tyranid biotoxins, and one could imagine him gaining scores of new followers over the millennia thanks to Tyranid-related infections. I'll spare the crack-fics about all the creative things Slaaneesh can do with a Lictor, but even if Tyranids have no excesses of their own, Slaaneesh Daemons could definitely take some pleasure in the thrill of the fight. Or the impending pain of being impaled repeatedly, if nothing else. Khorne, as the saying goes, cares not from whence the blood flows. Probably doesn't care much as to what it flows from either, as he seems to be perfectly fine with Eldar and Orks. That said, when life gives you Tyranids... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOOOOOOOD GOOOOOOOOOD! (As a side note, it's incredibly depressing that the most fair and impartial being in the galaxy just happens to be the god of murder.)

genestealer_baldric
13-05-2009, 09:32
Nids vs nurgle. I guess i will have to mention it then, phage cells, Tyranids are the most resistant race to toxins, plauges and posion etc out there (except necrons of course ) .So not every nurgle thing will afect them straight away, but he will work out fairly quickly though how to avoid it.

i know its possible to affect nids due to the nurgly geneslters in the 3rd or 4th space wolf book.


Nids vs Khorne, they dont have blood they have icor ;) ive yet to hear a choas champ yell icor for the icor god.

Nids vs Slanessh all iam saying is implant attack

Nids vs Tazzench (sp) hummm genetseler patricarch flinging spells sounds like somthing that could happen.

as for fighting demons in the normal universe can only survive a limited time before going back to the warp and if they lose the anchor to the world then the battles all over .

Lord-Caerolion
13-05-2009, 10:26
Skarbrand can't fly anymore due to injuries to his wings. Karnak can actually eat other Daemons. For a lesser instance, the Masque suffered from fatigue once.

Yes, but remember, thats merely a metaphor for the warp-energies. As a better way of explaining that, the Fantasy Daemons FAQ gives an explanation that Daemons don't have "magic equipment" in that the equipment is them. A Bloodthirster may be seen as being equipped with an axe and a whip, but thats just the way our minds perceive the Warp-Energy that is the Bloodthirster.
Here's the actual quote:

Daemonic Gifts are unlike magic items in that they reflect a particular ability of the Daemon in question, rather than something it carries. This is normally described in a manner that our weak mortal minds can comprehend - as swords, armour and staves, for example, but the actual form the Gift takes can vary, often minute by minute, according to the will of the Chaos Gods.

Skarbrand was a Bloodthirster, but due to a loss of standing in Khorne's eyes, he lost some of his power. To Skarbrand, and any other daemon, it merely means that his Warp-presence was diminished. For our mortal minds to make sense of that, we perceive it as his body being damaged. The thing is, Skarbrand doesn't actually have a body.

Karanak "eating" another daemon: as again, how our minds perceive it. The 'truth' is that the warp-presence we call Karanak absorbs the other warp-presence. We rationalise that as Karanak eating them. Remember, how can you eat something without a mouth, or even a physical form?

When Daemons enter the physical realm, think of it like a reverse Gellar Field. The Daemon is pure energy, in a realm of matter. They bleed because thats what we know happens when you hurt an organism. They don't bleed because they have blood, because they don't have blood. Nurgle daemons make other creatures sick because that is what we perceive daemons of plague would do. Nurgle daemons are only metaphorical hosts of disease, they don't actually have bacteria/viruses growing inside them, as those are physical things.

Yeah, this is giving me a headache trying to explain it, but thats why I love Chaos. Such a complex concept. Daemons have no actual physical form, being that they are beings of pure energy, yet they can interact with physical objects.

mchmr6677
13-05-2009, 15:20
That being said, as Tyranids literally fear nothing and are not bound the same way as we are to preconceptions, does that mean the Nids either see nothing or see what the daemons truely are?

The Song of Spears
19-05-2009, 16:27
That being said, as Tyranids literally fear nothing and are not bound the same way as we are to preconceptions, does that mean the Nids either see nothing or see what the daemons truely are?

Here is a interesting thought. Isnt chaos created from the concentrated energies of emotions, such as hate, passion, lust, greed, envy wrath, etc etc?

So perhaps you have to have those things + psychic potential to get chaos attention? And the nids most certainly have no emotions. So I think i am leaning towards nids dont show up on chaos radar.

And my fanboi side says there is nothing in chaos that can stop the nids, only the combined efforts of all orks could to that, and considering the orks have split off on yet another odd waaagh to the human space, nids win, just give us time... :evilgrin:

Kandarin
19-05-2009, 18:52
I'm just going to have to repost the thing I post every time this comes up.


I prefer a more balanced approach to the question of whether the Tyranids or Chaos are more powerful in the warp. Simply put, Chaos constantly tries to influence local warpspace to conform to itself. The Tyranid psychic effect (call it the Shadow in the Warp, the Hive Mind, the gestalt, whatever) does the same. When they meet, one always pushes and the other pushes back.

When Chaos is successful in gaining control of local warpspace, Tyranid synapse control breaks up and the agents of Chaos are able to influence or destroy the individual hive creatures at will. This happened in Storm of Iron, the Medusa V conclusion, and probably a few other places that I missed.

When the Tyranids are successful in gaining control of local warpspace, Chaos is crippled and daemons flee in terror. The agents of Chaos (not to mention all other psykers) must work harder to use Warp-based powers. There are references to this happening in all kinds of Tyranid fluff, and it's accounted for in the aforementioned tabletop rules.

So, which one wins the battle for the Warp, the Tyranids or Chaos? That depends on a number of factors:

* How many Tyranids are present?
* How organized are they?
* What proportion of these Tyranids are Synapse creatures?
* Is the Hive Mind actually trying to exert its power over the area, or is it just passing through?

* How many Daemons are present?
* How powerful are they (greater? lesser? Daemon Princes? Something else?)
* How competent and/or numerous are the local followers of Chaos?
* How important is the outcome of this battle to the Chaos Gods?

The outcome of any struggle in the Warp is dependent on the answers to these questions. Neither side must win by default.

Firaxin
20-05-2009, 04:24
As a better way of explaining that, the Fantasy Daemons FAQ gives an explanation that Daemons don't have "magic equipment" in that the equipment is them.
Thankfully for the tyranids, WFB and 40k are two entirely separate universes, no matter how much we want it to be otherwise.

Fantasy evidence =/= 40k evidence; 40k's Codex: Daemons FAQ has to say it.


Otherwise, ditto what Kandarin said.

Lord-Caerolion
20-05-2009, 06:44
Well, I prefer the "two universes, one warp" approach.

The fact still remains that daemons have no physical form, they appear according to mortal emotions portray them. Hence, to argue that they would create a "natural" body when summoned is equivalent to saying that when ships enter the Warp they create a Warp-form for themselves.
Now, when a daemon possesses an individual to enter the material realm, thats an entirely different story. They then have a "natural" body of flesh/metal/whatever, that they have twisted into their own shape.

I'm not saying that Daemons can automatically beat Tyranids, because as you said, Daemons having entirely warp-made forms in the material realm leaves them especially vulnerable to the Shadow in the Warp. If they have "natural" bodies, this weakness is removed, as they are tied into this realm, much in the same way as a deamonhost. However, having a flesh-body creates a whole new weakness, in that flesh-bodies give the Tyranids something to use to increase their biomass.
Either way the daemons manifest, the Tyranids have the advantage, really.

What I meant to say is that daemons with warp-bodies are beings of pure metaphor, if that makes sense. A daemon being banished doesn't kill it, yet it appears that way to us because thats what is effectively happening. We hurt a daemon, but we only metaphorically did so, so it metaphorically bleeds. After all, what use is blood to a creature that has no heart, no veins, no pulse? Yet daemons can still bleed, as we know from Khorne daemons. Our mind rationalises the changing status of the warp-presence that is the daemon as the daemon bleeding.

Lord Damocles
20-05-2009, 13:51
Tyranids vs Necrons (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170788&highlight=tyranids)

Lets not start that again...