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carldooley
07-05-2009, 22:53
I'm a longtime 40k player that elected to pick up a fantasy army on account that most games in my area are fantasy games, rather than 40k. I prefer sci-fi, but I can live with fantasy if it means that I can play a game. I elected to play vampire counts on account that it is one of the better 'hidden horde' armies in the game. I won't say that I didn't select it after scanning the boards for the most 'broken' army, and I won't say that I don't like winning, but I prefer to have people willing to play a second game against me. for this reason I need to know what is OP and what people will play without packing it in and calling it a day:

1. Magic phase denial: If I take multiple corpse carts (2-4) with balefire, and make it so that it is unfeasible to cast spells for my opponent. Is this OP or unsportsmanlike?

2. An anvil unit: VC are apparently the one of the only armies (if not the only one) with no upward limit on the number of models that I can put in a unit. As I have never fielded a truly horde-y army, would it be will-breaking if I fielded a unit of a 100+ zombies and then proceeded to boost that number with my spellcasters? FYI, I'm looking at a Vampire Lord with all the spellcasting bells and whistles for support - Helm of Commandment, Skull Staff, +2 Magic Level, Master of the Black Arts.

as a subset to this I have a couple rules questions:
A. A wizard isn't limited to casting only one spell a turn, yes? as long as I have magic dice to distribute, I can keep casting spells?
B. Where can I find items\spells that destroy bound items? it seems kind of foolish to pay more for bound items than my opponents will for the means to destroy them.

3. the black coach - how does this work for people? does it absorb 6s from dispelling attempts as well as from magic castings?

W0lf
07-05-2009, 22:59
1. 2 carts is usaully enough. Vampires dont need to worry as much about magic as most as you get DD just for bringing vampires and you can heal damage done.

2. Dont bother taking zombies. You can raise them ingame. Its perfectly possible to raise a unit of like 40 zombies in one magic phase. The biggest strength of vamp counts is to take small units of core to raise and just raising zombies.

A) A wizard can cast as many spells as he can use dice. He can only cast each spell/attempt to cast once. However vampires+necromancers can attemp to cast invoc/raise dead/vanhels as much as they want.

B)In the vamp book. none. To destory bounds you need vauls umaking, law of gold or a spell destroyer.

3. It steals powerdice at the start of the turn. Before you start casting.

Caine Mangakahia
07-05-2009, 23:09
I'm a longtime 40k player that elected to pick up a fantasy army on account that most games in my area are fantasy games, rather than 40k. I prefer sci-fi, but I can live with fantasy if it means that I can play a game. I elected to play vampire counts on account that it is one of the better 'hidden horde' armies in the game. I won't say that I didn't select it after scanning the boards for the most 'broken' army, and I won't say that I don't like winning, but I prefer to have people willing to play a second game against me. for this reason I need to know what is OP and what people will play without packing it in and calling it a day:

1. Magic phase denial: If I take multiple corpse carts (2-4) with balefire, and make it so that it is unfeasible to cast spells for my opponent. Is this OP or unsportsmanlike?

2. An anvil unit: VC are apparently the one of the only armies (if not the only one) with no upward limit on the number of models that I can put in a unit. As I have never fielded a truly horde-y army, would it be will-breaking if I fielded a unit of a 100+ zombies and then proceeded to boost that number with my spellcasters? FYI, I'm looking at a Vampire Lord with all the spellcasting bells and whistles for support - Helm of Commandment, Skull Staff, +2 Magic Level, Master of the Black Arts.

as a subset to this I have a couple rules questions:
A. A wizard isn't limited to casting only one spell a turn, yes? as long as I have magic dice to distribute, I can keep casting spells?
B. Where can I find items\spells that destroy bound items? it seems kind of foolish to pay more for bound items than my opponents will for the means to destroy them.

3. the black coach - how does this work for people? does it absorb 6s from dispelling attempts as well as from magic castings?

1. 2 Carts is more than enough in most cases, more starts to get expensive (3 is worth considering vs and WoC DoC casting armies.

2. Characters can't go in zombies. The Caster lord is seen as very effective but boring and cheesy in most opinions.
Wizards can keep cating as long as he has power dice available, each spell can only be cast once, however, with the exeption of spells classed as necromancy spells (they have a special heading in the lore.)
Being able to destroy bound items is very rare, Lore of Metal has a spell that has a 50/50 chance. HE have Vauls unmaking, and one or two other items (e.g malekeiths Sword in DE).

Coach only absorbs the base power dice in each magic phase (yours and the enemies) and any power dice of anywizards within 6". It has no effect on dispel dice.

Duke Georgal
08-05-2009, 02:08
1. Magic phase denial: If I take multiple corpse carts (2-4) with balefire, and make it so that it is unfeasible to cast spells for my opponent. Is this OP or unsportsmanlike?

I have never seen this tactic work.




If I fielded a unit of a 100+ zombies and then proceeded to boost that number with my spellcasters?

Any unit 10 X 10 will be nearly impossible to maneuver and be tactically of little use.




A. A wizard isn't limited to casting only one spell a turn, yes? as long as I have magic dice to distribute, I can keep casting spells?

Read the BRB for a full explanation of which wizards can use how many dice.




B. Where can I find items\spells that destroy bound items? it seems kind of foolish to pay more for bound items than my opponents will for the means to destroy them.

Vampires do not need bound items, the ones available are not very good anyway. I don't think there is a VC item that destroys enemy bound spell items.




3. the black coach - how does this work for people? does it absorb 6s from dispelling attempts as well as from magic castings?

The Black Coach is still not worth the points.

Cats Laughing
08-05-2009, 19:04
FWIW, there are multiple spells in the game that cause a hit or at least an attack on every model in a unit. A 100+ strong zombie unit would just make players with those spells drool...

0ld1eye
08-05-2009, 19:32
Especially spells that rely on initiative tests to do damage :D

Cats Laughing
09-05-2009, 00:22
At Str 3 (iirc) Flames of the Phoenix successfully cast and not dispelled on the Zombie unit would drop (assuming average rolls) 66-67 of the 100 Zombies on the first turn.

If you fail to dispell it in your turn, on the High Elf's second turn, ~27-28 of the remaining 33-34 zombies (assuming none were brought back) would burn to ashes. The last 5 to 7 zombies would be rather easily picked off in the shooting phase...

:)

dragonlancr
09-05-2009, 00:32
My pointer to you as a new fantasy player is don't be surprised or frustrated when you lose a lot more than you win a first; regardless of army or list composition.

Warhammer Fantasy is much more tactically rich than 40k; You will see! An excellent and strategic player will be able to lure you into his plan and before you know it you just got massacred to Orcs and Goblins to a list you would swear would lose every game.

My true advice to you would be to play any list you want, and enjoy the game itself while you begin to adapt to the strategic side of the game. Once that is obtained, then yes you will see the power of your Vampires. :)

Good luck and welcome to WFB!

Kill-Freedom
09-05-2009, 03:18
40k is for kids LOL barely any tactical skill required

0ld1eye
09-05-2009, 10:33
Coming from someone who plays one of the generic overpowered tournament armies, that's a bold statement... and not true any more. 40k requires less tactical skill, I'll agree, but lining up your troops and shooting doesn't work any more.
Whereas I can't say the same of dwarven gunlines.