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claudiomarino
09-05-2009, 12:05
I wonder if a Chaos Space Marine is armed with a bolter or a heavy bolter from start? Do I have to pay extra points for the other? Or are they the same but with different designs on the sprue?

Thanks in advance for a quick answer *building a squad*

DaSpaceAsians
09-05-2009, 12:06
They're armed with bolters and yes you have to pay points for the Hvy Bolter

Shangrila
09-05-2009, 12:09
All CSM have a bolt pistol,grenades, close combat weapon and bolter for free, so you can model any variation of these in a squad,anything else costs you points.

claudiomarino
09-05-2009, 12:09
Ouch thats make things harder. Is it, in general, worth those extra points?

Thanks for the super fast reply :)

Joewrightgm
09-05-2009, 12:09
I like the heavy bolter for the sheer amount of extra high-powered dice they add. Best combination would be heavy bolter and plasma gun for infantry hunting.

But remember also, you can do two special weapons in the squad as well.

Cythus
09-05-2009, 12:15
sounds like you need to get the codex and the rulebook

flamer and meltagun provides versitility and means that the squadcan still shoot to full effect while moving

claudiomarino
09-05-2009, 12:30
Yes I need to buy both books but I spent all my money on models instead. But I will eventually, of course.

I will make to squads, one for close combat with a flamer and a melta. Then another with two plasmas.

claudiomarino
09-05-2009, 12:38
Oh no! I mixed the weapons up. Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was;

I wonder if a Chaos Space Marine is armed with a bolt pistol or a bolter from start? Now I know they have both, but do they differ?

I'm building a Plauge Marine squad so I can't have a heavy bolter.

Daver X
09-05-2009, 12:42
a normal bolter can shoot further and can rapid fire but if you use it you cannot charge.
whilst a bolt pistol can shoot once at 12(or less) then charge and or rapid fire
but you cannot use both in one turn

Vote Kantor
09-05-2009, 12:45
They come with both, you can use 1 per turn, so either 1 shot, then charge, or longer range one shot/ 2 shots short range, but no charge

claudiomarino
09-05-2009, 12:49
Great! Thanks a lot guys, now I can continue with my assembly :)

Vote Kantor
09-05-2009, 13:02
BTW, that really *really* was a nooby question:p

Mannimarco
09-05-2009, 13:28
there there, we were all noobs once upon a time

Latro_
09-05-2009, 13:32
a normal bolter can shoot further and can rapid fire but if you use it you cannot charge.
whilst a bolt pistol can shoot once at 12(or less) then charge and or rapid fire
but you cannot use both in one turn

incorrect, you can't rapid fire pistols if you dont move anymore.

Vote Kantor
09-05-2009, 13:59
there there, we were all noobs once upon a time

Thats why i added the ":p"

Benign
09-05-2009, 14:46
So being armed with Bolt Pistols and Bolters in 5th edition is like being armed with just Bolters in 3rd edition?

Mannimarco
09-05-2009, 15:05
its a chaos thing, bolters, bolt pistols and close combat weapons as standard, we're armed to the teeth

techman
09-05-2009, 15:21
Wait Wait Wait...Did I read that correctly Kantor? Do they have the bolt pistol/cc AND the bolter or just one or the other? I thought it was always they have a bolt pistol and CC. Or they have a bolyer, but not both...know they all sound like their oblits that can have whatever weapon they want.

Mannimarco
09-05-2009, 15:24
chaos codex, the section at the back lists what equipment they have, csms have pistols and ccws and bolters as standard

theyre better armed than loyalists IIRC

techman
09-05-2009, 15:27
Well I find that ridiculous...how to renegades have better weapons than loyalist....but whatever

Lord of Worms
09-05-2009, 15:34
It's an absurd mechanic to show they're better at fighting than loyalists. They could have just given them an extra attack.

Benign
09-05-2009, 15:47
But they aren't better at fighting than loyalists, they're just better equipped!

Felwether
09-05-2009, 15:49
I think the words game mechanic are key here.

Benign
09-05-2009, 16:00
Uh, the point being?

Corrode
09-05-2009, 16:09
The point being 'stop crying about it', I think.

Lord of Worms
09-05-2009, 16:17
Uh, the point being?

It's so they could give them an extra attack without giving champions ANOTHER extra attack for taking two weapons.

Example, CSM Champion Wyatt has 1 attack for existing + 1 for being chaos +1 being a champion +1 for two weapons =4 attacks (for a unit sergeant:eek:)

That's too much apparently,so they all get a spare sword instead of unit sergeants wiping out whole Tactical Squads with a power sword

Corrode
09-05-2009, 16:31
Actually he'd have 5 attacks on the charge - which is as many as an Ork Warboss and more than the average Marine Captain. Just a touch too many. :P

Treadhead_1st
09-05-2009, 18:27
Actually he'd have 5 attacks on the charge - which is as many as an Ork Warboss and more than the average Marine Captain. Just a touch too many. :P

But the humble Imperial Gaurd Sergeant gets 4 attacks on the charge (2 for being a Sergeant, 1 for 2xCCW, 1 for chage) - so a basic human is the equal of a Chaos Marine in terms of fury (#Attacks), but of course less skilled (less Str, less WS).

Heh, guess it shows them Guardsmen must be really mad at something.

ctsteel
09-05-2009, 20:09
As you haven't got the main rule book or chaos marine codex yet, the Chaos Marine reference sheet (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180156_Chaos_Space_Marines_Reference_Sheet.pdf) might be of some use in understanding the very basic stats of the models and weapons available.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
09-05-2009, 20:28
Well I find that ridiculous...how to renegades have better weapons than loyalist....but whatever

After ten thousand years, they learned to carry a sharp stick of some kind in addition to the bolter and bolt pistol loyalists get. :skull:

Loyalist Marines get chapter tactics and They Shall Know no Fear. Its a trade off to make the two seperate in addition to all of the goodies both sides have.

Either way, they both die the same to battle cannons so its all good. ;)

Benign
11-05-2009, 01:18
It's so they could give them an extra attack without giving champions ANOTHER extra attack for taking two weapons.

Example, CSM Champion Wyatt has 1 attack for existing + 1 for being chaos +1 being a champion +1 for two weapons =4 attacks (for a unit sergeant:eek:)

That's too much apparently,so they all get a spare sword instead of unit sergeants wiping out whole Tactical Squads with a power sword

How's that absurd? It seems pretty sensible to me, and a clever way to avoid stat-creep.

Joewrightgm
11-05-2009, 03:17
The real reason Chaos Marines have more weapons standard than loyalists:

Being ancient legions by and large, they retained STC templates for holsters, slings and scabbards. This information is also obtained by new renegades.

Slipknotman21
11-05-2009, 04:09
Off topic Chaos has more weapons loyalists have more Special hero's,this is coming from someone with no sense of balance though;).

On Topic Hey any chance of some pics? Also don't be afraid to ask questions like this we don't bite(Most of us.:evilgrin:)

ehlijen
11-05-2009, 04:11
The chaos and renegade legions are full of selfish bastards, all of which horde as much gear as they can possibly carry. On the ohter side the loyalist chapters are full of teachers pets who hand back all the toys on command when the techmarine tells them it's bedtime.

Chaos -> everyone's got what he found and keeps it. Not having enough weapons means you'll probably get mugged and killed by someone who does yet still wants more.
Imperium -> everyone gets what the pencil pushers assign them and there's not enough to go around to give everyone everything.

druchii
11-05-2009, 05:22
Well I find that ridiculous...how to renegades have better weapons than loyalist....but whatever

They don't have better weapons.

They have more.

d

Freakiq
11-05-2009, 06:17
Well I find that ridiculous...how to renegades have better weapons than loyalist....but whatever

That's what you get for following the rules of Rowboat Girlyman. ;)

Benign
11-05-2009, 14:58
The chaos and renegade legions are full of selfish bastards, all of which horde as much gear as they can possibly carry. On the ohter side the loyalist chapters are full of teachers pets who hand back all the toys on command when the techmarine tells them it's bedtime.

Chaos -> everyone's got what he found and keeps it. Not having enough weapons means you'll probably get mugged and killed by someone who does yet still wants more.
Imperium -> everyone gets what the pencil pushers assign them and there's not enough to go around to give everyone everything.

Yup. It goes a long way to explaining the improved Chaos Space Marine Leadership, and also their lack of And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, and Combat Squads. Being selfish bastards, they aren't too worried if the odd squad buys it (one less competitor for the future), but since they put themselves before the good of the unit so that they can't execute fighting retreats ("I'll hold them off while you men fall back!"), and sending some guys off without supervision from the Aspiring Champion is just asking for a new Aspiring Champion to take over the unit.