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kikkoman
12-05-2009, 18:14
Though in the background they mention their common origins, it doesn't seem like their current descendants are aware of it.

And in general, is it ever mentioned what Eldar think of Orkish technology? The admech may be perplexed and hypothesize on psycho-reactive weaponry, but the Eldar, being psychic warriors themselves, would probably be able to tell.

Also had a thought the other day, if some Eldar do know about their common origins, perhaps there's some secret of the Old Ones locked away in the ork's genes? They contain some amazing technology built with psychic engineering. Imagine the Eldar institute for the study of Gubbins and Bits, dissecting the brains and souls of mekboys, adding wraithbone bits to Shokk Attack Guns, cooking squigs, etc.

on a related note, can the psychics of other races act upon wraithbone? can soulstones hold xenos souls?

Condottiere
12-05-2009, 18:21
It seems doubtful that Orks know any history, considering their lifespan, general education methods and lifestyle.

The Eldar keep all their knowledge in the Black Library, so they probably know, but it's on a need to know basis.

Radium
12-05-2009, 18:25
And I would assume all psychic energy can influence wraithbone. Maybe you need special training to know what kind of 'pressure' to apply (if there is any difference) or how to direct it or anything, but I think it should be possible.
Every soul can be trapped in a soulstone as long as the stone is psychically linked to the wearer. In farseer a rogue trader's soul gets into a soulstone.

heretics bane
12-05-2009, 18:54
The Eldar keep all their knowledge in the Black Library, so they probably know, but it's on a need to know basis.

I thought that was only all info on chaos was kept there?

They could as they still remeber how the old ones taught them how to use the webway

Urath
12-05-2009, 18:59
I think that the Black Library is the sum of Eldar knowledge, thus it does contain information on Chaos too :)

NightrawenII
12-05-2009, 20:07
Black Library contains every bit of knowledge of Eldar about Chaos and thus every bit of knowledge known to mortals about Chaos.

GraveGuard
12-05-2009, 20:15
One idea was/is Gork & Mork were 2 Old Ones (probably 2 scientists who came up with the idea of Orks in the first place) So they sort of know of them but not as The old Ones but rather their 2 Gods.

The Old One connection to the Eldar veries on what version of fluff/history on them you want to go with.
The Eldar were created by the Old Ones
The Eldar were freed/helped by the Old Ones from the Mon-Keigh
The Eldar Gods were/are the Old Ones or took their place etc

Hellebore
13-05-2009, 01:13
Orks live in the moment and don't really think about the past, or the future. Once their brainboyz* disappeared they degenerated into a barbaric race.

*I do not think the brainboyz were old ones. Rather they were a leader caste, highly psychic and intelligent. The enslaver plague and daemonic infestations that occurred after the war in heaven slowly killed them off. In an attempt to give the other castes of their species the ability to survive they tried to incorporate parts of their own genome into them. Thus they thought that perhaps specific 'oddboyz' would spore that had an instinctive ability to lead. Unfortunately they were killed before this could be finished so the inbuilt ork knowledge was not complete. Instead of Leader oddboyz they got painboyz and mekboyz, and the biggest and strongest orks took control.**

**This is all made up by me, in case anyone was wondering. I'd rather orks were more interesting than just comical green alien punching bags.


The black library is of indeterminate age. As the old ones and eldar creation occurred at 5:45PM Thursday -60,000,000 years, there is no evidence that any of that knowledge survived. Certainly it is not necessarily true that the black library is that old. Which means in order for the knowledge to be kept for a time when the black library is formed, it would need to be known by eldar everywhere for millions of years.

The eldar do however have myths about the war in heaven, which is around the war between the C'tan and the Old Ones.

Hellebore

Condottiere
13-05-2009, 08:23
The Orks carry their Black Library within them - tragically, none are librarians.

NightrawenII
13-05-2009, 10:00
The Orks carry their Black Books within them - tragically, none can read.

Corrected for you.;)

Tourniquet
13-05-2009, 15:32
Ork's have made references to the Old Ones in the past.
They called them Brainboyz (Page 7 current Ork codex).
And they know they were smaller then the Orks, and much smarter.

So the Ork's know of their tie, but don't realize what the tie to the Old ones is.

Condottiere
13-05-2009, 15:35
Problem is, we don't know who the Brainboyz are either.

Dhazzakull
15-05-2009, 11:17
i thought the brainboyz were snotlings who were supersmart then because of a special kind of mushrom which later got exstinguisched after an ork revolutio

Alessander
16-05-2009, 02:16
could be that the ork-based old ones eventually degenerated into snotlings...

in which cast, we have official models of old ones!

Brother Siccarius
16-05-2009, 05:32
i thought the brainboyz were snotlings who were supersmart then because of a special kind of mushrom which later got exstinguisched after an ork revolutio

I mainly see it as a reference to much earlier fluff, but it is possible. With the Old Ones being a multitude of races it's possible that orks were created by what we now know as snotlings.

The old background was that the Snotlings created the Orks to harvest their fields and be used as general slave labor, the snotlings were powerful and smart due to their consumption of a type of mushroom. The Orks eventually began to consume the mushroom, became powerful, and overthrew the snotlings. Afterwords they degenerated into their current forms we know now.
Of course, the entire nature of the orks has changed since then. The Orks were created durring the end of the War in Heaven, so I doubt they were the slaves of a hedonistic race. The Orks and Snotlings now grow from those mushrooms, also. The orks also "dumbed down" a bit in the meantime. Snotlings also take a role in the life cycle of a Waaagh! the same way as squigs, grots, or orks, so I doubt they engineered themselves into that cycle as the subservient race.

So, it's possible, but just about as possible as any other explanation at this point.

09Project
16-05-2009, 06:08
Madboyz remember, ok they not in the 'game' as such, but I like the old Madboyz and they still about for me, plus I like the idea of a Warboss watching a group of flower wearing Orks who decided one day that must tell all about this story before they forget and give the Warlord the full complete history of the Universe, just for the Warboss to through a shiny bauble and the Madboyz to go running.

The Eldar must know of ork origins. They still can't stand the green menace.

It does make more sense to me that Orks are Old One born. The Snottling mushroom theory just never had any legs to it. But then I used to like the idea that Squigs were what you got when Nids met Orks, if anyone could mess with the Nid eat everything then make new stuff, it should have been orks, and a load of Squigs randomly evolving in a hive fleet then eating it, just amused me.

Condottiere
16-05-2009, 07:19
Could this be an Old One?

09Project
16-05-2009, 07:23
Could this be an Old One?


Thank you, you made being awake at a silly hour on a saturday morning worthwhile :)

Paul Nexus
16-05-2009, 21:49
The Eldar were freed/helped by the Old Ones from the Mon-Keigh

Eldar are much more ancient than humans, the Old Ones vanished long before humanity did anything of any use.

The various codices give a good bit of information, albeit vague.

The Eldar refer to Necrons as their ancient enemies. Since the Eldar were created for way against the Necrontyr, or Yngir, it seems logical that record remains, even after the fall. Whether or not Dark Eldar have such knowledge, or even care, is another question.

Orks, or Krork, live for now. They really don't care about the past.

Iracundus
17-05-2009, 03:49
could be that the ork-based old ones eventually degenerated into snotlings...

in which cast, we have official models of old ones!

The Necron Codex says to use WHFB Lizardmen models to represent degenerate Old Ones, all but outright stating the Old Ones were Slann

Idaan
17-05-2009, 10:15
Some of them, because the Old Ones were a coalition of races. And the 40k Slanni don't look anything like current bloated WFB's Slann, but more like lean big lizardmen from older edition.



The Eldar were freed/helped by the Old Ones from the Mon-Keigh
Eldar are much more ancient than humans, the Old Ones vanished long before humanity did anything of any use.He refers to the original Mon-Keigh (notice the capitals) that were a race of sub-intelligent animalistic beasts that subjugated early Eldar and were later cleansed by the hero Elronhir. The derogative term for humans is derived from them and means "that which must be exterminated"

Warsurge
18-05-2009, 00:16
The Orks at one point were smart but over time grew dumb. It does not say if they knew or not. But if they did it is long forgotten. The Eldar do know of their creation for they were given the Webway from the Old Ones to travel across the galaxy and fight off the Necrons.

lequaye
18-05-2009, 00:48
I think its a tall order to think any Ork would know of the Old Ones let alone the Orks place in the grand scheme of things. Even the great ork 'thinker' Orkamedies struggles to remember the name of his ammo runt, let alone why and how the Orks exist.

As for the Eldar that is a far more complex question that many people have different ideas on. I personally feel that the Old Ones have become just another part of the Eldar folk law, tangled in myth and legend. After all the Eldar are very good at that sort of thing and any real detail or truth has been lost long ago, may be even before the fall.

DapperAnarchist
18-05-2009, 00:55
Orks seem to use a sort of "outboard" brain in many of their more interesting things - Meks and Docs and so on "just know" without learning or thinking all that hard (while the human outboard brain involves looking it up). So I imagine that some of that information is in the outboard brain, but is never accessed.

Condottiere
18-05-2009, 05:39
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Szfraniec
18-05-2009, 16:04
Of course the orks know, at least on a genetic level. Im sure if the information became necessary to know in order to keep the species alive, one of em would think of it, or at least know how to apply it.

However, even if they do know it, they dont care!