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omera
13-05-2009, 12:00
I'm starting to get second thoughts on spending money on my own made up space marine chapter. I've got questions about the Imperial Guard.

Do Imperial Guard allow lots of badassery?
What are general Imperial Guard tactics?
How much background stuff can I go in depth with IG?

DaSpaceAsians
13-05-2009, 12:09
The Guard is filled with badass heroes such as Yarrick, Marbo, Bastonne and Straken and you could write a story for your regiment and fill it with tales of badassitude. They also happen to have a lot of guts since they're normal humans who stand against horrors armed with nothing but a glorified laser pointer and a flak vest. Commissars are quite badass too.

Griefbringer
13-05-2009, 12:12
Badassery? It surely takes guts to go and face the rampaging hordes of über-aliens armed with little more than an over-powered flashlight, bayonet and flak jacket, while a commissar is ever ready to blast your brains out with his pistol for the slightest signs of doubt. Though the possibility of being supported by regiments of Leman Russes and Basilisks might make it slightly less intimidating.

Of course, with the codex just out, you are likely to see a lot of olive green bandwagons speeding by left and right.

Captain Micha
13-05-2009, 12:18
I'm starting to get second thoughts on spending money on my own made up space marine chapter. I've got questions about the Imperial Guard.

Do Imperial Guard allow lots of badassery?
What are general Imperial Guard tactics?
How much background stuff can I go in depth with IG?

Yes, yes the IG do. Actually I consider them the most badass guys in the 40k universe. To me they are more fearless than SM. Cause it would hard to be a coward when you are stuck in 3+ armor, given a bolter and are genetically enhanced to the point that you are no longer human. It's easy to be without fear when nothing can really hurt you in any way.

Also the IG get way better special characters, though most of our best ones aren't even in the codex! (and we have some awesome guys in the codex. such as Yarrick, Marbo, Harker, Straken.)

Depends on the IG list you are going for. Currently there's a mechanised horde list, a mechanized Elite list, Air Cav, Human Wave, Armor, and Balance List (which has abit of everything), there's also Calvary and Scout type forces as well.

As deep as you like, I found it easier actually to create a unique IG force than it was to create my own chapter.

shin'keiro
13-05-2009, 12:21
space marines.. but wait for the new wolves!!

omera
13-05-2009, 12:31
Yes, yes the IG do. Actually I consider them the most badass guys in the 40k universe. To me they are more fearless than SM. Cause it would hard to be a coward when you are stuck in 3+ armor, given a bolter and are genetically enhanced to the point that you are no longer human. It's easy to be without fear when nothing can really hurt you in any way.

Also the IG get way better special characters, though most of our best ones aren't even in the codex! (and we have some awesome guys in the codex. such as Yarrick, Marbo, Harker, Straken.)

Depends on the IG list you are going for. Currently there's a mechanised horde list, a mechanized Elite list, Air Cav, Human Wave, Armor, and Balance List (which has abit of everything), there's also Calvary and Scout type forces as well.

As deep as you like, I found it easier actually to create a unique IG force than it was to create my own chapter.
I'd prefer an infantry-heavy list. As far as the regiment goes, I'll try to think of something unique.
Also, does the IG codex have Penal Legion stuff?

Captain Micha
13-05-2009, 13:07
Infantry heavy is alot of fun, but can require alot of patience to paint! (though Heavy Weapon Teams might make this a little easier on you than my 205 man Human Wave at 1500)

I took Catachan, (just a little of it) and smashed it together with Tanith for my primary Ig's homeworld. Even just cross breeding worlds with the Ig can create some very unique results. Something that I find you really can't do with SM because of the gene seed thing and that they are all spoonfed the same tactics and organization via Codex Astartes.

Oh yes we still have Penal Legion and they are really cool now. I wanna take em soon and put a Priest with em.

omera
13-05-2009, 13:25
Infantry heavy is alot of fun, but can require alot of patience to paint! (though Heavy Weapon Teams might make this a little easier on you than my 205 man Human Wave at 1500)

I took Catachan, (just a little of it) and smashed it together with Tanith for my primary Ig's homeworld. Even just cross breeding worlds with the Ig can create some very unique results. Something that I find you really can't do with SM because of the gene seed thing and that they are all spoonfed the same tactics and organization via Codex Astartes.

Oh yes we still have Penal Legion and they are really cool now. I wanna take em soon and put a Priest with em.
I might also make a balanced list, as long as it doesn't involve buying that $90 tank (I forgot the name).
Speaking of pricing, how much should a 1,500 pt list cost? How are IG psykers?

Edit: Should I base my army off of an entire homeworld's IG garrison, or just one regiment?

Captain Micha
13-05-2009, 13:38
I might also make a balanced list, as long as it doesn't involve buying that $90 tank (I forgot the name).
Speaking of pricing, how much should a 1,500 pt list cost? How are IG psykers?

Edit: Should I base my army off of an entire homeworld's IG garrison, or just one regiment?

The Baneblade? It's not a normal tank so no worries there unless you are planning on doing Apocalypse (that's when it's allowed). It is Sex On Treads though.. I plan on owning 6.

If you buy 3 battleforces you tend to end up with enough Infantry for most 1500s so that is around 285 Us Dollars. You also end up with 3 Sentinels and 3 Command Squads.

After that it depends on which kind of tank you are after. Personally for my guard their Leman Russ just wouldn't do so I went shopping for non games workshop tanks. I picked up two Israeli Merkava 1:48 scale tanks (Gw vehicle size) for 20 dollars.

Though you can get a "deal" on Gw tanks and pick up 3 basilisks for 90 Us dollars. I only run two, so really I don't recommend it. A pair of russes runs about 80 from them. Which you really never need more than 2 russes I feel.

Do you want all of your models to follow one paint scheme or not? I started with just one world for mine. I've got several that exist in fluff which I will gradually model over time. (because I like all of my figs to follow one or two paint schemes in an army list. I feel it looks better) Really that's the big question as if you would want your guys from one world or not is the look you are going for. A Coalition force might be kind of neat on the field and would probably be less taxing on your patience during the painting stage. For me all of my guys clad in black and blue was so so worth it. *you can check it out on my deviant art gallery which is linked in my sig*

omera
13-05-2009, 13:54
I'm currently coming up with ideas for an IG regiment and would like opinions. I was thinking of your standard average Joe regiment, but with a few tweaks. This particular regiment is lead by an Ogryn, though the regiment is made up of all humans. Due to the heavy influence of the Ogryn and his officers on the troops, the regiment would be a 'lets go out and have fun shooting crap' eager-to-fight regiment.
At the moment, this is all I have for ideas.

As for including important characters (like the Ogryn) in my games, I don't want to kill the characters off too soon once their wounds reach zero. I also don't want to repeatedly assume the characters are just badly injured, because what are the chances of this happening a lot before they finally die?

And aye, I plan on following one paint scheme for one homeworld.

Captain Micha
13-05-2009, 14:00
Yeah Penal Legion and possibly Veteran Squads would be a great way to do this list.

How many vehicles do you think you want in your army?

Actually fairly high all things considered. If you look at modern medicine and the low fatality rate on the battlefield, and imagine that enhanced further with true limb replacement etc. They could in theory just keep replacing parts.

omera
13-05-2009, 14:02
Yeah Penal Legion and possibly Veteran Squads would be a great way to do this list.

How many vehicles do you think you want in your army?

Actually fairly high all things considered. If you look at modern medicine and the low fatality rate on the battlefield, and imagine that enhanced further with true limb replacement etc. They could in theory just keep replacing parts.

Eh. Don't Penal Legions always just get sent to die rather than actually be kept alive?
As for vehicles, I was thinking not many.

SPYDER68
13-05-2009, 14:05
Eh. Don't Penal Legions always just get sent to die rather than actually be kept alive?
As for vehicles, I was thinking not many.

If money is a issue.. infantry is harsh...$22 for 10 guys.. Then you haft to buy heavy weapons, plasma and melta guns completly seperate..

5-7pt models at $2.20 per guardsmen ftw!

Captain Micha
13-05-2009, 14:07
Hence why I said he should buy the Battleforce in multiples instead. It's still rape but not as bad of rape.


Yeah Penal Legions do fluffwise, but your guys could be Elite Specialists sent in from *insert place here* in order to perform an especially vital mission. Just because the unit entry and default fluff say "penal legion" doesn't mean they actually are.

omera
13-05-2009, 20:41
Hence why I said he should buy the Battleforce in multiples instead. It's still rape but not as bad of rape.


Yeah Penal Legions do fluffwise, but your guys could be Elite Specialists sent in from *insert place here* in order to perform an especially vital mission. Just because the unit entry and default fluff say "penal legion" doesn't mean they actually are.

The battleforces for a balanced 1,500 pt list add up to about $285 right?
I could probably get through with that, but whats the cheapest 1,500 point lists I can do?

BigBadBull
13-05-2009, 21:12
Why don't you go buy the codex read it ,then reread it before you make an army decision that you might not like.

$25 is alot better than $250-500 to start an new army from scratch only to find out you don't like them. Maybe even play a game with a friend subbing your marines for Guard and using the new guard codex rules before buying some of the guard stuff you wont use.

Just a bit of advice from some one that started Tau , got marine codex as a "second army" and now have like 8k of tau, 20k+ of Deathwing marines , and a bunch of Guards men sitting on the shelf MIB waiting to "finish" up my marines and a ton of FW kits (Reaver is work in progress right now)... lol

SPYDER68
13-05-2009, 21:24
The battleforces for a balanced 1,500 pt list add up to about $285 right?
I could probably get through with that, but whats the cheapest 1,500 point lists I can do?

If money is a issue.. i suggest reading both codex's and making a couple army lists then see how much it will cost..

Guard will be the most costly easily thou.


If money is not an issue go with the models you like and read the rules to see what you like. then do it.

Lord_Crull
13-05-2009, 21:28
I took Catachan, (just a little of it) and smashed it together with Tanith for my primary Ig's homeworld. Even just cross breeding worlds with the Ig can create some very unique results. Something that I find you really can't do with SM because of the gene seed thing and that they are all spoonfed the same tactics and organization via Codex Astartes.



Wrong,The Raven Guard and White Scars have very different fighting styles than the Ultramarines, as for mixed geneseeds half the DIY chapters out there have mixed geneseed written in.

Caiphas Cain
13-05-2009, 21:29
Do guard as they have the most fun choosing fluff i think, but if your short on cash guard is not the army you want.

Da_Killa
14-05-2009, 13:04
Gaurd are awesome

omera
14-05-2009, 13:28
Gaurd are awesome
I'm not really short on cash, but $90 is all I'd have to spare every month for the battleforces. I'm not old enough to work <_<. It'd take a few months to get everything.

Captain Micha
14-05-2009, 14:02
The battleforces for a balanced 1,500 pt list add up to about $285 right?
I could probably get through with that, but whats the cheapest 1,500 point lists I can do?

Doing the math I think the triple Battleforce.

The three battleforces get you around 565 pts of infantry(if the squads are equipped the way mine are).

670 is what you could expect with the Sentinels thrown in. (unless you upgrade the Sentinels weapons)

Guard are expensive to collect. You might want to start at 1000 (this way too you won't be completely overwhelmed during your own shooting phase!). Given that if you use the Sentinels in the battle force, to get up to 1k I'd probably pick something that will play well with it. Such as a Hellhound, and maybe a Leman Russ.

Ebay can also make the cost go down dramatically on a good day.

Another way to go is Veterans instead which will knock the cost down quite abit. Two Battleforces, would get you 4 Veteran squads effectively. 740-800 is around what you can expect which is easily more manageable (after the two Sents are thrown in). It also frees up some funds which can be used to buy some really tasty units. If you get three and run Vets (6 squads of veterans wow... ) that can be 1100 or a little more. At that point a pair of Sponson equipped Russes gets you 1500. Somewhere around 350 is around what you'd spend if you go Veterans route for your first 1500. That's probably the cheapest route, it gives you 60 guys that are upgraded to have a special trait or tactic, 3 Sentinels and 2 Russes. It's a pretty well rounded force.

Either way I'd start with a 1k list and move from there. That way you get used to moving and shooting all of that stuff and not have all of it dumped on you at once.

An army is always a substantial investment, but it's a fun one. Also you might want to check out your local area see if anyone's willing to trade you some minis and what not if you have any you are willing to get rid of. This can save you time and money. Proxying is another good way to figure out if you will like an army or not too.

DarkMatter2
14-05-2009, 17:44
Guard are pretty awesome.

I started with them, they drew me into the hobby, and I don't imagine I will ever build any other kind of 40k army.

That being said, individual heroics are not the Guard's forte.

It is sort of the cliche reason people like the Guard - that they are "normal humans" with a gun and some cardboard armor who stand up to the horrors of the universe, but honestly, games don't really feel that way. Individual guardsmen, both in fluff and the tabletop, don't amount to squat.

This leads, more often than I think it should, to the notion that the Imperial Guard is an underdog army. It is not. The Imperial Guard is a well oiled war machine. The lives of men are irrelevant - it is the immense mechanized firepower that the Guard brings that wins you battle.

The Guard is an unstoppable attrition-firepower monster. If the Guard can pin their enemy to a position where they can continually assault, the enemy has already lost because the IG will expend as many men and tanks as are necessary to ensure victory regardless.

The notion of "one guy with guts and a lasgun" is only so much romantic claptrap - the IG is really about crushing enemies beneath waves and waves of bodies, iron treads, and artillery shells.

The Space Marines and the IG represent the two different sides of that spectrum. The SM are characterful, with superhumans doing heroic feats. The IG is a faceless horde of flesh and steel that, once set in motion, can't be stopped.

LordofWar1986
14-05-2009, 17:56
I would say do IG if you are willing to spend the time to buy, assemble, and paint a good amount of models. There are a number of good ranges offered by GW for the IG, and most of the models aren't that bad. If you ask me, its much more fun to come up with your own conversions by mixing and matching a ton of these different models. Play styles are pretty broad, and it just depends on your preference.

Space marines are a lot cheaper on your wallet, plus you don't need nearly as many models as you might need for IG (painting wise). It is indeed fun to pose these guys in heroic action poses though.

Hard choices, if you are about as crazy as the next IG player, go IG :)

CEO Kasen
14-05-2009, 18:24
The notion of "one guy with guts and a lasgun" is only so much romantic claptrap - the IG is really about crushing enemies beneath waves and waves of bodies, iron treads, and artillery shells.

The Space Marines and the IG represent the two different sides of that spectrum. The SM are characterful, with superhumans doing heroic feats. The IG is a faceless horde of flesh and steel that, once set in motion, can't be stopped.

It's a perfectly valid interpretation of the Guard, but some people like imagining it the other way. And... Really, every once in a while, thanks to the vagaries of the dice, you'll watch as an individual Guard sergeant, his squad dead or incapacitated, beats and runs down an entire Wych squad in close combat; He raises his bloody chainsword to the sky with a mad, triumphant scream - only to get a torsoectomy next turn courtesy of the guns of the Warrior squad in a nearby forest.

Moments like these - acts of improbable heroism coupled with darkly humorous irony - may not be what 'makes playing the Guard worthwhile,' but they add enough spice here and there that I believe it's not to be dismissed so casually.

omera
15-05-2009, 03:22
It's a perfectly valid interpretation of the Guard, but some people like imagining it the other way. And... Really, every once in a while, thanks to the vagaries of the dice, you'll watch as an individual Guard sergeant, his squad dead or incapacitated, beats and runs down an entire Wych squad in close combat; He raises his bloody chainsword to the sky with a mad, triumphant scream - only to get a torsoectomy next turn courtesy of the guns of the Warrior squad in a nearby forest.

The thing that got me back into trying to build a 40k army (I lost a little interest for a while) was the thread where people talked about their badassery/extremely lucky rolls on the tabletop.

Edit: Also, is that Imperial Lens Network a roleplay?

CommissarTanith
15-05-2009, 03:26
Of course, with the codex just out, you are likely to see a lot of olive green bandwagons speeding by left and right.

In my town, we have about 4 guard players that I know. When the book first came out, we sold 9 copies, before I even got mine!

Warforger
15-05-2009, 03:26
The Anti-MEQ trolling on this site makes me throw up.

If a Space Marine wins he is a poser and all his incredible feats are considered "Unrealistic"
If a Imperial Guards wins, he is a pimp and all his incredible feats are considered "Badass"

IMO, pick whatever army appeals to you more, don't care about what other people say. Most people on this site will always side with Guard no matter the situation, there biased.

CommissarTanith
15-05-2009, 03:28
The thing that got me back into trying to build a 40k army (I lost a little interest for a while) was the thread where people talked about their badassery/extremely lucky rolls on the tabletop.

Edit: Also, is that Imperial Lens Network a roleplay?

You want awesome stories? (If you don't, well too bad)

You ever give the last two wounds on a Hive Tyrant with Lasguns? I have. Wounded him twice in twenty shots, he failed two 2+ armor saves.

SimonL
15-05-2009, 03:49
If a Space Marine wins he is a poser and all his incredible feats are considered "Unrealistic"
If a Imperial Guards wins, he is a pimp and all his incredible feats are considered "Badass"


QFT, see Mkoll (Yay badass) versus Telion (Marine booooo). :rolleyes:

CommissarTanith
15-05-2009, 04:04
I think it is because Space Marines are DESIGNED to do the cool stuff that they do. When a normal guy does something cool, it's cooler than the guy who's made to do cool stuff.

And, Mkoll and MkVenner are just bad ass :)

Imperius
15-05-2009, 04:11
1) Plenty of badass. Cigars, swagger sticks, veterans, Commissars.

2) Tactics vary a bit, infact IG is a bit too flexible if you know what I mean. The special characters and order system just make endless possibilities.

3) Background for a tournament write-up, probably not that much. Background for leisure? HUGE. Dan Abnett (great author) and so much history in the codex make it for a great army for people who like a DnD style warhammer.

dooombot
15-05-2009, 04:15
Do Imperial Guard allow lots of badassery?


classic...

CEO Kasen
15-05-2009, 04:17
I think it is because Space Marines are DESIGNED to do the cool stuff that they do. When a normal guy does something cool, it's cooler than the guy who's made to do cool stuff.

Couldn't have said it more succinctly myself.



Edit: Also, is that Imperial Lens Network a roleplay?

If I understand the question, yes. It is the character/conglomerate organization I roleplay in the 40K universe. My Imperial armies are corporate-themed, tanks festooned in sponsorship logos; Banners depict not the Campaign of the Third Tyrannic War, but "Valvoline."

It hasn't been actively roleplayed for a while, save little blurbs on the battlefield - I just got back in the game after a couple of years off - but I'm certainly open to such.

Vaktathi
15-05-2009, 05:06
Do Imperial Guard allow lots of badassery?
Yes, but in a different way than Space Marines. Space marines can walk through small arms fire and light heavy weapons, and can smash things in close combat. Imperial Guard get torn apart by these things, at least their infantry, but can field so many dudes and tanks, and extremely deadly vehicles, that they more than make up for it. Imperial Guard can field more heavy weapons than any other army in the game, and a ridiculous number of high strength blast weapons that ignore Space Marines armor. You can field an army that outnumbers your opponent both in terms of infantry *and* armor by 3-1, and while your infantry are fairly piddly, your tanks are not. Where my Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines pack 58 infantry, 1 MC, and 3 AV11 APC's in 2000pts, my current Imperial Guard army packs 65 infantry and 11 tanks under the old codex, the one I'm building with the new codex packs in 76 infantry, 9 medium AV12 tanks, 3 fast Skimmers, and 3 heavy AV14 battle tanks, for 15 AV12/14 vehicles.

While the Space Marines are a powerful and terrible foe, the armored ranks of the Imperial Guard are even moreso. Space Marines have their own badassery, but nothing survives a company of Imperial Guard heavy tanks turning the battlefield into a cratered hell.


That, and you can always take comfort in the fact that no matter how bad you lose your games, against anything but Orks or Tyranids, you probably still won a moral victory. Only kill 30 eldar and lose 110 guys? Well, The Imperium's got trillions more where that came from, the Eldar may have to pull back and butt out. Kill 25 space marines and a land raider at the cost of your entire force? Well, there's hundreds of millions of Guardsmen for each space marine, so you didn't do too bad.

Where the Space Marines confront the horrors of the universe with genetically engineered super bodies, handheld automatic mini rocket launchers, and essentially tank armor, the Guardsmen does the same thing with little more than the equivalent of a kevlar vest and an assault rifle. If that's not badass, I don't know what is.

EDIT: Also, bear in mind, aside from the Tyranids and the Orks (if they ever united), there's really nothing that can stand up to the massed might of the Imperial Guard once it gets going. The Space Marines are powerful, but for every world in the Imperium there is but one Space Marine, while there's tens and hundreds of millions of guardsmen and heavy fighting vehicles. When the Imperial Guard get's rolling, there's nothing that can stand in it's way, it is much like the Tyranids in that regard.



What are general Imperial Guard tactics?
Shoot. A lot. Bring a ridiculous number of weapons to bear on an opponent and sit on the trigger. Overwhelm their ability to deal with tanks by fielding 15, along with close to a hundred infantry as well. They just can't kill everything and you will be more than capable of shooting what little they have to death.



How much background stuff can I go in depth with IG?Very in depth. There are *billions* of Imperial Guard regiments as opposed to only a thousand Space Marine chapters. There are model lines for Cadians, Catachans, Steel Legion, Tallarn, Praetorians, Mordians, Valhallans, Death Korps of Krieg, Elysians, Vostroyans, and some Tanith Ghosts.

You can go all sorts of places with Imperial Guard, far more than you can with Space Marines. With Space Marines, you have a thousand chapters, a couple offshoots, but most of them are still mostly identical, and even the offshoot ones aren't all *that* dissimilar.

With the Imperial Guard, you have can have far more variety in an army than between any loyalist space marine force, in terms of fluff, model count, model type, force composition, etc. You can have Catachan Jungle Fighters mixed into the same regiment as mechanized Steel Legion troops, and it's still good to go.

The Imperial Guard are one of the most customizable and varied forces in the game.

Epicenter
15-05-2009, 05:30
I'm a Guard player myself, but I'll tell you this right now:

Play the force that appeals to you more. Go to stores, look at the models, watch the armies being played and which interests you more.

Don't get an army because it's underdog. That's for idiots like me. ;)

Get the army you like and go with it, and take comfort that most 40k players end up with more than one army anyway. Space Marines make a fantastic beginner's army. Though their current codex is considered a little on the weak side, it's still very good. IG is right now the flavor-of-the-month too so lots of people will be talking it up.

Remember, Space Marines will always be FOTM for GW. In a year or two years when people are laughing at the IG codex and the lack of releases, Marines will continue to get new and shiny toys and recut sprues for you to play with. I don't know about you, but I like getting new toys - I have to buy tremendously expensive Forgeworld for my IG fix.

Also, this hobby is so very expensive. When you get an army, get the army you like.

omera
15-05-2009, 11:54
Couldn't have said it more succinctly myself.




If I understand the question, yes. It is the character/conglomerate organization I roleplay in the 40K universe. My Imperial armies are corporate-themed, tanks festooned in sponsorship logos; Banners depict not the Campaign of the Third Tyrannic War, but "Valvoline."

It hasn't been actively roleplayed for a while, save little blurbs on the battlefield - I just got back in the game after a couple of years off - but I'm certainly open to such.

I'd be interested in joining.

Vic
15-05-2009, 16:43
I'd have said IG, until I realised GW just doubled the price for the basic troops. IG are a cool army, lots of variants, but I think it will be a very expen$ive army to field. SM are alot cheaper to field, and have alot of cool kit....