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Flamer
13-05-2009, 12:47
Ok here comes my question ( I'm pretty new and tried search function here and I couldnt find it :cries: )

I painted my Space Marines army. I like red and black so I used this colours. I used generic SM rules for a while but I thought that I'll give it a shoot with Space Wolves ( as the rules seem pretty cool + thay will get updated and I realy want to be more CC kind of guy ). Now I picked up the old book ( had it on a shelf for quite a long time :) ) and went on to play at the local tournament.

I got to the 3 round ( beat 2 players - one was Nids winner of the previous one !!! ) and bumped into eldar player. He says I've heard that you use space wolves. I said - yes and started ot hype up on the Nordic stuff and things like that. He said that my army painting doesnt support RAW - that it is generic space marine chapter and I cannot use space wolves rules.

The org said that I can we went on and I beat him. ( in KP departmant it was major victory ). He said that he will ask on warseer and dakka about it and he will come back and prove that I was wrong and he should have won :cries:

He didnt up till now so I thought I will ask. Was I over the RAW ? Or can I play my painted space marine army as any chapter I like ? ( I should say that I have very specific terminators - thay have slightly modified forge world blood angels pads - My chapter is called Black Rain and I paint the wings red and the blood drop black ) Could this swing the case in his favour ?

librerian_samae
13-05-2009, 12:50
Why should you not be able to use space wolf rules?

It's called counts as as far as I would be concerned and as long as everything is acurately and consitantly represented (which I'm assuming it is by the sounds of it) you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Sounds like a good army and a nice paint scheme to boot.

slayerofmen
13-05-2009, 12:52
Nothing anywhere says you HAVE to paint a model to the colours present in the book to use its rules, they could be pink for all it matters and as long as you use the rules as a whole from that codex there is no issue. that guy is a douche

Lamoron
13-05-2009, 12:52
Your opponent was an poor sport... there's nothing in RAW that says your models need be painted in codex colours, as long as they are clearly recognized for what they are and what they do (WYSIWYG models).

No painting rules except for tournament specific rulings.

The Clairvoyant
13-05-2009, 12:53
You can use your marines as gretchin for all i care!

You said your army was space wolves and you're using that codex. Thats good enough for me.

There are no rules for colour schemes. If there were, people with desert bases would not be allowed to play on a green battlefield.

Xelloss
13-05-2009, 12:54
- Does your minis had the correct weapons ?
- Did you tell your opponent at the beginning you use SW codex ?

If you can answer yes to the 2 question (and from your post it's what it seems), then your army is WISYWIG. Say it's some space wolves that changed their color scheme after some event (commemoration from a fallen SW, in honour to something in particular, etc...).

Oh, and your opponent was a bad loser. Sometimes, it happens.

Templar Ben
13-05-2009, 12:55
There is no RAW at play.

Tournaments can have their own rules and many say you can't paint an army like one army and play with a different set of rules. For instance many would not let you have Dark Angels and use the Blood Angels rules.

As I said though, by RAW you are fine.

pookie
13-05-2009, 12:56
wow so you cant use your marines using the SW Dex eh? intresting, love to see where the rules for that are....

smacks of sour grapes to me.

Bob Hunk
13-05-2009, 12:57
- Does your minis had the correct weapons ?
- Did you tell your opponent at the beginning you use SW codex ?

If you can answer yes to the 2 question (and from your post it's what it seems), then your army is WISYWIG. Say it's some space wolves that changed their color scheme after some event (commemoration from a fallen SW, in honour to something in particular, etc...).

Oh, and your opponent was a bad loser. Sometimes, it happens.

This would be good enough for me too. :) More modern codexes even specifically state that it doesn't matter what colour scheme your models use.

Flamer
13-05-2009, 13:00
- Does your minis had the correct weapons ?
- Did you tell your opponent at the beginning you use SW codex ?

If you can answer yes to the 2 question (and from your post it's what it seems), then your army is WISYWIG. Say it's some space wolves that changed their color scheme after some event (commemoration from a fallen SW, in honour to something in particular, etc...).

Oh, and your opponent was a bad loser. Sometimes, it happens.

Yes - for the blood claws ( thay have CCW and Bolt Pistol ) I used assault marines with changed back packs ( normal marine back packs instead of flying ones )

And yes I explained to my opponent exaclty what everything is at the start of the game.

Well I'm glad I didnt cheet :D

Thx guys !!! If this loser says something I will foward him here !!!

rossatdi
13-05-2009, 13:02
As long as you have you have all the appropriate equipment on the troops you'd have to find a very odd tournament that disallowed it.

At the very worst you can just claim they're a decadent chapter.

===

I'm planning on painting my Grey Knights in white & gold. I hope they don't ban me from playing!

JustTony
13-05-2009, 13:54
They're painted, they're WYSIWYG, tell the bozo to shut up and play. Crap like this gives the game a bad name with others. I don't remember seeing anywhere in the rules about paint jobs conforming to a certain standard, other than the "models must be painted with three colors" tourney standard.

I ran into a couple of players like that at a Science Fiction convention in San Antonio, TX many years ago, I guess about 1986. I had a bunch of generic skeletons (which I used for monsters in my D&D game) and was interested in playing this brand new wargame they were playing. When I asked about the game, I was very rudely informed that I could not play this game (Warhammer Fantasy 2nd edition I think) unless I had "Official Gamesworkshop Models" which I did not have, obviously. They had also pulled this stunt with couple of other people and were generally just rude.

Unfortunately for them I was one of the people running the game room at this con and after a quick discussion with the other 2 guys running the game room and a quick check with the Con CoChair we pulled their membership badges, and told them to pack up and leave. Needless to say, they were upset but they did leave.

It wasn't until 1999 that a friend of mine talked me into playing 40K. I wish I had of said "No", I would have so much more money in my bank account.

Sigh.

SPYDER68
13-05-2009, 13:55
If he honestly was against somone using the paint scheme / ruleset they wanted.. that guy is a total tool... You can paint your army Hot Pink and play whatever chapter you want.

aberrant_unc
13-05-2009, 13:57
- Does your minis had the correct weapons ?
- Did you tell your opponent at the beginning you use SW codex ?

If you can answer yes to the 2 question (and from your post it's what it seems), then your army is WISYWIG. Say it's some space wolves that changed their color scheme after some event (commemoration from a fallen SW, in honour to something in particular, etc...).

Oh, and your opponent was a bad loser. Sometimes, it happens.

Xelloss summed up the only two rules that apply here - is everything modeled correctly, weapons, etc., and did you tell him you use the space wolves codex?

This has nothing to do with the concept of RAW, and I can't believe he even mentioned it. It is a WYSIWYG issue if anything. That and a sore loser/sportsmanship issue.

ToXiK
13-05-2009, 14:33
this guy was obviously trying to use your newness against you saying things like that. then threatening to go to some established forums to put his point across well obviously he knew he was in the wrong as he didn't bother to. and like everyone else has said as long as he knew you were using the wolfs codex and your models were wysiwyg then there really isn't a problem

Blekinge
13-05-2009, 16:01
With the release of the 5th edition marine codex, and the abolishing of marine traits under the banner of Ultramar, my marine army became unplayable. I liked more short ranged firefights, so I had taken "trust your battle brothers" (true grit) and "cleanse and purify" (two special weapons per squad).

I now use the chaos codex instead (severely restricted), but only with loyalist models. All my regular opponents have no problem with it. But there are small WYSIWYG problems, like twinlinked bolters vs. storm bolters, but everything is painted and correctly equipped, so I have not heard complaints.

I have not played in the tournament scene, so I do not know their reaction, but I would definitely accept your marines with the space wolves rules.

The SkaerKrow
13-05-2009, 16:16
All that matters is that the models that you're using adhere to "What You See Is What You Get" (that your miniatures are depicted with the actual weapons that you've equipped them in your army list). Color schemes mean exactly nothing in the 40K rules, so if the event organizer was fine with your custom Space Wolf successors/impersonators, there's really nothing at all for you to worry about.

Good on you for having a fully painted army, and congrats on your showing at the event. I hope you enjoy the new Space Wolf codex when it comes out!

Meriwether
13-05-2009, 16:22
Your opponent was a tool. (Actually, he probably still is.)

You were completely in the right to do as you did. Happy gaming.

Meri

Phyros
13-05-2009, 16:31
Using the Eldar player's reasoning, no one with unpainted models would be able to play either.

DartzIRL
13-05-2009, 16:39
RAW...

That Basilisk gun is glued down! It can't fire indirectly!...
Lolwut. It's broken.

WYSIWIG taken to extremes and then some. I used a Leman Russ Exterminator from time to time, I have 2 of them now in fact, and for a while used them as standard russes, since they had no rules of their own in the Codex, and I liked the model (The original, and my own conversion). I didn't use a standard Russ when I was using them to avoid confusion.

And yet three people (I counted the times it happened) still insisted I remove them as an illegal model, despite it being bloody obvious what they were supposed to be.

StraightSilver
13-05-2009, 16:46
Yeah, as has been said there is nothing that says anywhere that you have to paint your models a certain way to use a certain Codex.

As long as your models are equipped correctly there is no reason anybody should have a problem (and you played two games without any problems beforehand, so from that you should realise that very few people would have a problem - think you just got unlucky).

And if anybody else has a problem with it just tell them that your Marines are a Chapter of your own design who are a Space Wolves Successor Chapter.

That way they get to use those rules, but could be any colour you like.

Tanner MIrabel
13-05-2009, 17:49
OP: Glad you beat him. He sounds unsporting, rude and just wrong.

Lord Humongous
13-05-2009, 18:09
The org said that I can we went on and I beat him. ( in KP departmant it was major victory ). He said that he will ask on warseer and dakka about it and he will come back and prove that I was wrong and he should have won.

He was wrong, for the simple reason that the tournament organizer said your army was OK. If he's going against what the organizer said, he should be kicked from the tournament.

Besides, what possible bearing does the color your models have on whether he should have won the game or not? If they were not painted at all (which many tournaments allow, with the caveat that you can't win anything except best general / sportsman) then what?

MadJackMcJack
13-05-2009, 18:22
Successor Chapter. That's all you need to say. Although if you do face him again, try to get a hold of some Sisters and tell him they're female Space Wolves. If his head explodes from nerd rage, that's a default win!

Blekinge
13-05-2009, 19:09
I believe the space wolfies codex state that there are no successor chapters. So no, you cannot call them a successor chapter, without going against GW fluff. And we all know that playing with an unfluffy army leads to all sorts of discussions and arguments ;-)

Lord of Worms
13-05-2009, 19:12
"Wolf Brothers" are/were a SW successor. I think they got disbanded though, or turned traitor...I cant remember.

Blekinge
13-05-2009, 19:17
Yes, they were the only successors, and the experience taught the Imperium never to make SW successors again. I do not think GW ever really explained what happened, but I remember some hints about the wulfen and going mad in regards to the Wolf Brothers

MadHatter
13-05-2009, 19:20
I like this, the next time i lose I will tell my opponet his/her win doesn't count because they did not paint thier army the correct color. JK. Heck in truth I would not care the color because half the players I know do not even paint thier armies.

So I congratz on your victory and good work getting your army painted. don't stress the stupid stuff. If your models are wysiwyg and you told your opponent your army then you are good. Heck next time have him show you the rule.

Lord of Worms
13-05-2009, 19:21
I know a couple ended up as renegades in Dead Sky, Black sun

Inquisitor_Tolheim
13-05-2009, 19:32
Yeah, it's been said a lot, but you we're perfectly in the right. Might as well kick out a Guard Player for not using Cadian colors on their models. The organizer ruled correctly, and the other player was just being a poor sport. Congrats on your just victory and all that good stuff.


I believe the space wolfies codex state that there are no successor chapters. So no, you cannot call them a successor chapter, without going against GW fluff. And we all know that playing with an unfluffy army leads to all sorts of discussions and arguments ;-)

So their a specific group of space wolves that use nonstandard colors instead? Although the wolves don't have successor chapters they have significantly more marines then most chapters, and in turn could have groups who have given themselves different heraldry or colors after an event in their past. Not saying it isn't a stretch, but it's certainly not the worst fluff deviation you'll see in a standard tournament.

Horus38
13-05-2009, 20:08
Wow, that guy gets a double dose of "Tool of the Day Award", especially for repping the Eldar in such a poor way. Yea, he's full of it, army color schemes are irrelevant for all intents and purposes when it comes to RAW.

Eldoriath
13-05-2009, 21:12
No problem, you are right and he is just a player that needs to take out the stick from his ***. If you like how the space wolves rules work but dislike the color scheme there is no problem in painting them totally different and call them "Fancy pants marines fab five chapter" if you like. RAW you are in the right and he is in the wrong.

AlexCage
13-05-2009, 21:18
This ... confuses me.

First off, I agree with all the previous posters. Dude's a tool, you're in the right.

But that out of the way... Your army's paint schem doesn't support RAW? How the hell does that work?!

Now, am I missing something? Does RAW stand for something OTHER than "Rules As Written"? If not, then if you ever see him again, hand him the Space Wolf Codex and a Rulebook and ask him to find the RULE that states how you must paint your army. Or even a rule that says you need to paint your army at all. Or ANY RULE regarding PAINTJOBS, in any way, shape, or form. To my knowledge there isn't a single rule in 40k or fantasy that even TOUCHES on painting (bar the Orks' Red Paintjob upgrade, but I don't even think that REQUIRES you to paint it red anymore, by RAW).


On a side note, I find it humourous that someone would try to apply the game rules to the creative aspect of the hobby. One of the best reasons to date to avoid tournaments.

Sorros
13-05-2009, 21:23
Some people are just jerks/sore losers...everyone I play doesn't care what paint job is on the models, or half of what models are/equipped with...as long as you tell them before hand, and its not some ridiculous claim, like saying that gretchin are assualt marines.

Maidel
13-05-2009, 22:22
I agree with everything people have said - appart from this


Tournaments can have their own rules and many say you can't paint an army like one army and play with a different set of rules. For instance many would not let you have Dark Angels and use the Blood Angels rules.

Is that really the case? Surely you could paint them as Dark Angels and when you turn up say is a dark angel successor chapter that happens to play like blood angels?

So long as the opponent knows what they are, and they are marines, its not an issue? Surely?

Charistoph
13-05-2009, 22:35
Yeah, it's been said a lot, but you we're perfectly in the right. Might as well kick out a Guard Player for not using Cadian colors on their models. The organizer ruled correctly, and the other player was just being a poor sport. Congrats on your just victory and all that good stuff.



So their a specific group of space wolves that use nonstandard colors instead? Although the wolves don't have successor chapters they have significantly more marines then most chapters, and in turn could have groups who have given themselves different heraldry or colors after an event in their past. Not saying it isn't a stretch, but it's certainly not the worst fluff deviation you'll see in a standard tournament.

Alternative thought, they may have no connection to the Space Puppies, be Imperial Fist successors, and changed their fighting style over time so it ACTED like SW's fighting style.

I know that when I start my chapter, it'll have at least one-two companies that are represented by each of the codecies, so I don't have to repaint my army just to fit somebody else's fluff.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 00:25
Is that really the case? Surely you could paint them as Dark Angels and when you turn up say is a dark angel successor chapter that happens to play like blood angels?

I think the point is that a tournament organizer can tell you that you have to show up in a duck suit and quack everything you say, use only fuzzy dice cut from '67 Chevys, and field no models that cost less than 50 points...

Tournament organizers can make whatever rules they like, no matter how arbitrary.

Meri

thevoicesinside
21-05-2009, 05:07
Hi this may be a n00bish question, But i have just joined Warseer and i read a few forums but this is my first post. What does RAW and WYSIWYG stand for. My knowledge on 40k is playing with my mates, with naffly painted models in his garage.

Felwether
21-05-2009, 05:35
Hi this may be a n00bish question, But i have just joined Warseer and i read a few forums but this is my first post. What does RAW and WYSIWYG stand for. My knowledge on 40k is playing with my mates, with naffly painted models in his garage.

'Rules As Written' and 'What You See Is What You Get'

I'm pretty sure you can turn on a glossary thing in you profile options that'll tell you what all these crazy abbreviations mean.

sukigod
21-05-2009, 14:43
As far as I'm aware, there is only one rule (RAW or otherwise) that applies to the color of a model (or part). That's the Orks 'Red One's Go Fasta' concept with the Red Paint Job on vehicles. It's cheap, and doesn't really add that much to the game - yes I know it can help but I've never found it to be a game winner/loser.

Doesn't mean this guy wasn't (isn't) a tool.

Meriwether
21-05-2009, 14:53
...but my blue trucks "count as" red trucks. On my Space Hulk, bloo ones go fasta!

Meri

IJW
21-05-2009, 15:03
There used to be a clause in the UK GT pack that SM Chapters painted as Chapters with specific codices had to use the 'correct' codex, but...

1. That was specific to the UK GTs and didn't apply to any other tournament unless the organiser of that tournament said so.
2. It's been removed for the UK GT rulespack.
3. That's not what you were doing anyway - to fall foul of that rules you'd need to have been using models painted as Space Wolves and using them as something other than Space Wolves.

Verdict: Tool.

sukigod
21-05-2009, 16:42
...but my blue trucks "count as" red trucks. On my Space Hulk, bloo ones go fasta!

Meri

Touche, Meri! :p

DarkstarSabre
21-05-2009, 17:25
...This is the part mate where you point out that just about every Codex out there actively encourages people to paint their army in the colour scheme they want. The ones GW use are generally 'examples' and nothing more.

Hells, the DA codex and SM codex both explicitly state this.

Pity sportsmanship is no longer a scoring factor at these sorts of things.

thevoicesinside
22-05-2009, 06:04
'Rules As Written' and 'What You See Is What You Get'

I'm pretty sure you can turn on a glossary thing in you profile options that'll tell you what all these crazy abbreviations mean.

Cheers I'll look for the setting.

Master Stark
22-05-2009, 06:32
can I play my painted space marine army as any chapter I like ?

Why not just use the generic rules?

pinegulf
22-05-2009, 06:57
/add to bashing stupid eldar player

As long as you honestly announce what army you play and name units as you deploy them there isn't a single good reason why you shoudn't be allowed to play with your army. IMHO that is.

Imho WYSIWYG is just nonsense. 'Aha, I wanna field flames squad today. Off to the store then. Maybe I wanna get lascannon next week so I better buy that too. -sigh-'

Inquisitor Engel
22-05-2009, 07:00
I know that when I start my chapter,

Call me in 38,000 years and let me know how that's going. ;)

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
22-05-2009, 17:04
Yea, he's full of it, army color schemes are irrelevant for all intents and purposes when it comes to RAW.

Red Paint Job?

Sir_Lunchalot
22-05-2009, 18:02
I believe it's official, the guy is a douche. Seriously, I could understand him trying to be a dick and complain about paint schemes, but RAW? come on, has he even read the rulebook? Aside from the Red Paint Job I don't recall a single rule in any rulebook or codex stipulating that things must be painted a certain way. By his logic my friend wouldn't be able to use hsi striking scorpions because they're black and white.

noobzilla
22-05-2009, 18:09
I believe the space wolfies codex state that there are no successor chapters. So no, you cannot call them a successor chapter, without going against GW fluff. And we all know that playing with an unfluffy army leads to all sorts of discussions and arguments ;-)


You could say it's a Marine chapter that uses similar tactics to the SW, they just aren't the SW... Therefore they use SW Rules.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
22-05-2009, 19:30
Were his Aspects painted in the classic Aspect schemes? If not, tell him he can't use them.

Griefbringer
22-05-2009, 20:00
How about the following way of getting back at the Eldar player:

1.) Check out if his guardians and vehicles are painted in the colours of one of the "big five" craftworlds (Alaitoc, Iyanden, Ulthwe, Sam-hain, Biel-tan) or at least close enough to be mistaken for one of them.

2.) If yes, then insist that he has to use the appropriate variant list from Codex: Craftworld Eldar (from year 2000) for that craftworld, in order to be WYSIWYG.

3.) Check from the tournament rules/organisers if the Codex: Craftworld Eldar lists are allowed in the tournament - most probably not, since they predate the current eldar codex.

4.) Demand that the said eldar player be kicked out from the tournament, since he is clearly using an army that is not allowed in the tournament rules. Point out that if he wants to play a generic eldar list, then he should not paint them in the colours of a specific craftworld with rules, since this makes them non-WYSIWYG.

However, don't expect to get any loving from the tournament organisers for starting another pointless argument.

Meriwether
22-05-2009, 20:06
How about taking the high road and not trying to "get back at him" at all?

I'm just saying...

Meri

DartzIRL
22-05-2009, 20:34
Because revenge is a dish, best served reheated from a microwave. Like Pot Noodle.

The Orange
22-05-2009, 21:17
IIRC the old SM codex did have a provision like that, maybe in the traits section. They wanted to dissuade people from making blue Blood Angles or Red Ultramarines, etc. Of course it was a stupid idea and you can see from the current SM codex that they no longer support such a ridiculous idea (probably because they realized they can sell more Marnius Calgar models if they just let their customers paint him however they want). Congrats on the win against the sore player, trying to win by claiming fowl on someone's paint scheme? some people just have no shame.

Griefbringer
22-05-2009, 21:33
How about taking the high road and not trying to "get back at him" at all?


In the real world, that would be the most sensible approach.

However, here at the interwebs weird fantasies of ridiculous revenge stretching the whole issue into totally dadaistic realms of absurdity tend to win more kudos.


trying to win by claiming fowl on someone's paint scheme?

I think it would probably be really neat to actually have fowls in ones paint scheme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowl

Or how about modeling a unit of ratling snipers that have disguised themselves as giant wild ducks? :)

coalescence
22-05-2009, 21:43
Do as you like, a friend of mine switches his Dark Templars between DT rules and SM rules, keep on playing as you like mate.

The Orange
22-05-2009, 22:24
I think it would probably be really neat to actually have fowls in ones paint scheme:


Darn U key being right next to W :angel:.

coalescence
22-05-2009, 22:45
Darn U key being right next to W :angel:.

You actually made me look at my keyboard, damn you! :skull:

DarthFreder
22-05-2009, 23:27
Personally I dislike the use of "non-codex" armies just because of they have "cool rules". I know some people, that turn their SM-armies every time a new (better) codex is out:
Salamanders-DarkAngel-Vanilla Marines. This sucks. Period.
Otherwise I would allow people in special circumstances that have "variations" in their chapters colors or heraldry (being a successor chapter or else) to set apart from the masses of alike-looking armies, to use them.
I like players, who stick to "their colors" - disregarding possible restricting rules or boni other army list might confer, altough they could score better.


started ot hype up on the Nordic stuff and things like that
Either you like the rules OR you like the fluff. This looks a little bit like "pretending" and looking for justification for your paint scheme.:cheese:

Out of the description of your case, it seems fair by the tournament orga to let you pass. Their tournament - their rules.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
23-05-2009, 00:04
Either you like the rules OR you like the fluff. This looks a little bit like "pretending" and looking for justification for your paint scheme.:cheese:

Clearly there aren't people who like both, nor people who think their background is best represented by a certain set of rules. And even if he just wants to use the SW rules, why not?

Wicksy
23-05-2009, 00:14
Imho WYSIWYG is just nonsense. 'Aha, I wanna field flames squad today. Off to the store then. Maybe I wanna get lascannon next week so I better buy that too. -sigh-'

I agree! However that really is only practical in a mates game. We field any model we want as a "counts is" model. Hell, i even use proxies sometimes. I wanted to try out scouts lead by telion so i just taped some paper to some blank bases labeled as "scout" or "telion". Or my mate wanted to change some plasmas for melta's in his IG force.....fine with me.

However, i wouldnt tolerate it in a tourny. If i'm trying to plan an attack, i want to be able to see what i'm fighting without remembering that the powerfist toting sgt actually only has a boltpistol and chainsword etc.. I have been coverting up models to represent my favourite sgts so i can field them in the tournament i'm off to.

However, the malark about painting chapter colours is just guff. Use 'em and be proud. If anyone says any different, tell 'em to fo forth and multiply ;)

The Orange
23-05-2009, 00:25
You actually made me look at my keyboard, damn you! :skull:

Ah and that made it all worth it :p.

Eldartank
27-05-2009, 01:05
I remember seeing a nicely painted Space Marine army featured in a White Dwarf magazine a few years ago. The Chapter was called "Rock Badgers" and they used the Space Wolf Codex rules. As long as the models are equipped according to your army list, you can use any codex you want, and call them whatever you want, and there is no rules violation of any kind.

These kind of debates continue to encourage me to actually make my "Fuzzy Bunny Feet" Space Marine Chapter - a Chapter of Space Marines all wearing pink fuzzy bunny feet slippers - just to **** off any "paintjob nazi" I come across.....

Meriwether
27-05-2009, 01:17
I played against that guy rather regularly. The Rock Badgers were really, really cool.

Meri

solkan
27-05-2009, 01:38
I think the only RaW for Space Marines is that you can't claim to be fielding Ultramarines or other specifically identifiable chapters unless your marines are painted according to the official color scheme. Of course, it's an entirely silly rule because you can take your marines, paint them however you'd like, and declare them a sucessor chapter (and therefore using the rules for that chapter) of whichever chapter you would like. :rolleyes:

But by God, your Ultramarines had better be blue, your Blood Angels had better be red, and your Black Templars black and made with those expensive upgrade sprues, or the GW Fluff and Tournament Inquisition WILL find you and make you regret it. :skull:

Kyrolon
27-05-2009, 06:44
There's no reason to sweat the paint job. My regular opponent (alex03 on warseer) has used his marines as just about every variety at some point along the way since 2nd edition. I actually like it since it keeps things different. We have a running joke that his chapter name for his red marines must be something like:

Sanguinary Dragons of the Ultra Dark Temple.

(Blood Angels, Salamanders, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Black Templars)

He's never used them as Space Wolves yet, so we never worked that one in. :)

Charistoph
27-05-2009, 07:56
Sanguinary Dragons of the Ultra Dark Temple of Russ.

(Blood Angels, Salamanders, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves)

He's never used them as Space Wolves yet, so we never worked that one in. :)

There you go.

Lord of Worms
27-05-2009, 20:09
In the real world, that would be the most sensible approach. (letting it slide)

I disagree. It's people being the "bigger man" this retard's whole life that let's him think he can act like this and get away with it.:(

Meriwether
27-05-2009, 22:51
A. I know many retarded people -- they are almost universally kind, wonderful people. Your pejorative is uncalled for.

B. Being the grownup in a situation is never the wrong decision.

Meri

Charistoph
27-05-2009, 23:05
A. I know many retarded people -- they are almost universally kind, wonderful people. Your pejorative is uncalled for.

B. Being the grownup in a situation is never the wrong decision.

Meri

True, true.

Let's use the correct terminology people, the guy was a politician, trying to bend/make up rules to justify why he lost and get a "win" any way possible.

CauCaSus
27-05-2009, 23:15
Simple.

Don't play the Eldar player again or any other people who want to dictate what army you field :)

Master Stark
27-05-2009, 23:23
I say again:

Why not just use the generic rules?

Charistoph
27-05-2009, 23:25
I say again:

Why not just use the generic rules?

Different HQ rules.

Jumpless Assault marines as Troops (is this a good thing?).

Long Fangs.

Marine-crewed Leman Russ.

Just to name a few.

Master Stark
27-05-2009, 23:44
Different HQ rules.

Jumpless Assault marines as Troops (is this a good thing?).

Long Fangs.

Marine-crewed Leman Russ.

Just to name a few.

So, purely because one is percieved as better than the other?

Inquisitor Engel
28-05-2009, 00:21
So, purely because one is percieved as better than the other?

No, because there are many, many more space marine armies out there than anything else. Codex versus Codex gets boring quick and people with other armies playing against Codex gets boring quick.

And guess what? Blood Angels is the only way to property field an 8th Company (Assault Squad support) army. Dark Angels are the only way to represent a 6th (Bike) or 7th (Land Speeders) or even first (Terminators).

Metaphorazine
28-05-2009, 03:18
There's no rules anywhere that state how something needs to be painted, or if it even has to be painted. Orks can take red paintjob on an unpainted trukk! The only rules regarding model appearance (and even then, it's a recommendation) is WYSIWYG. So technically, you'd have to "model" a red paintjob, not "paint" one. And as soon as people start modelling psychic powers, I'll start modelling red paint. :D

Lord of Worms
28-05-2009, 03:49
B. Being the grownup in a situation is never the wrong decision.

Meri

[shrug] Fine, let people treat you like garbage.;)

Maxis Lithium
28-05-2009, 04:26
In regards to paint schemes, if you don't use a cannon paint scheme, you cound as a Sucssesor chapter to the space wolves, or other non-codex chapter. Black Templar, Blood angels and Dark Angels all cound as non-codex chapters, as they have their own rule set. In each book they detail various sucsessor chapter colour schemes, some similer to the parent chapter, others vary radicaly.

The biggist issue would come in regards to unique units and models. For an army of Space Wolves, you have to looks at your HQ's. There are units like the Iron Father, the Storm Caller or other in the heavies, the Long Fang models which offically have their own models. While using stand ins are perfectly legal (given Counts-As is endorced in the core rulebook) it would be in the spirit of the game to make atleast a toek attempt to convert existing models to a more Space Wolf style. Simple elemts such as fur cloaks, feral weapons and SW iconography would all help to distinguish your army as Space Wolves or a successor chapter, rather then just doing it for rules benifits.

As always, for a Trounament, remeber to read the Tourny rules, and if there's any lingering quetions, ask ahead of time, before it comes up in the heat of game.

Master Stark
28-05-2009, 08:33
And guess what? Blood Angels is the only way to property field an 8th Company (Assault Squad support) army. Dark Angels are the only way to represent a 6th (Bike) or 7th (Land Speeders) or even first (Terminators).

Thats why I'm asking.

It's basically, why aren't the regular rules good enough for him?

If he's got a good answer, then I don't mind the 'counts as' space wolves. But it has to be a good answer.

Charistoph
28-05-2009, 08:42
Dark Angels are the only way to represent a 6th (Bike) or 7th (Land Speeders) or even first (Terminators).

BTW, you can field Bikes as Troops in C:SM, as all you have to field is the Captain on a bike, and there you go, Bikes as troops.

Land Speeders can be fielded as Fast Attack anytime, but never as a Troops Squadron. To take them in the Dark Angels' Ravenwing, they have to be fielded singly with the Bikes.

Meriwether
28-05-2009, 13:04
[shrug] Fine, let people treat you like garbage.;)

If someone wants to see the world in such a way that one must either be a complete tool *or* a pushover, I guess there's little I can do to enlighten them. You're completely right -- there just isn't enough childish stupidity in the world, and we should be encouraging people to stoop to the lowest common denominator of behavior. :rolleyes:

Seriously. This, I think, is the main difference between being a child and being an adult.

Mer