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stonehorse
13-05-2009, 14:53
I do think a collection of how many people have written a civilized letter to GW, explaining the affects that the price increase are going to have on one's spending on GW's products, would be a good idea.

I've never written a letter of complaint in all my life, but as GW is a big part in one of my main hobbies I feel the need to inform them in a polite fashion just what their over flated prices are doing.

Please provide any replies that GW send back.

Vic
13-05-2009, 15:10
Let us know which form letter you get! Honestly, I've never heard/read a letter from GW that accurately addressed the situation presented. I really wish they would give us a straight up answer.

loveless
13-05-2009, 15:11
I'm actually going to wait for a couple of reasons:

1) I haven't looked up what postage to the UK is yet.
2) I want to be sure of the range of their "price adjustments" so I can gauge my response appropriately. Last I checked, we had nothing solid in regards to the magnitude of the changes.

However, the thread is a good idea, so thanks for putting it up.

erion
13-05-2009, 15:13
Once I know what the price increase actually is, I'll formulate a response to it. Right now all we have is handful of new releases and several 55-gallon drums of speculation.

Ultimate Life Form
13-05-2009, 15:16
Sigh...

I hoped this thread would provide me with a few insights in GWs way of thinking, but it turns out all we get is another thread of random comments and generic GW bashing. What a shame. I was really looking forward to it. Great idea, stoney horsey!

Templar Ben
13-05-2009, 15:32
Over on Dakka, Dead Memories got a response.


Ah the Goldswords lol, well them and the new lotr prices oh and remember the 10 man guard boxes are going up to 15 which probably mean the valk will be 40, the command squads and sentinels will be 20. But never mind. My recomendation get out while you can.

I wrote to Jervis Johnson and got my reply today, the usual GW is the best with rules- lies, models- lies and customer support- LIES. Though he did say now is a good time to get out the hobby as well. I kid you not

What ha said on the letter, is if you are planning on leaving the hobby then it is your choice, though if you are your gonna get a good deal on what you sell. He also said if your leaving the GW hobby then take a look at other other wargames companies which shocked me more than out else. The blister reduction is a sneaky way to get away with the boxes going up clearly

Llew
13-05-2009, 15:35
Would anyone care to post an address that will actually go to someone in HQ where it has the slim hope of being seen?

I'm not writing for certain until I see the true scope of the rise, but I'll be happy to write a clear, reasoned and utterly ignorable letter to them. ;)

Orwin
13-05-2009, 15:37
Can they afford such a "Fine, go away if you don't like us" attitude? Are they crazy?

Templar Ben
13-05-2009, 15:41
Would anyone care to post an address that will actually go to someone in HQ where it has the slim hope of being seen?

I'm not writing for certain until I see the true scope of the rise, but I'll be happy to write a clear, reasoned and utterly ignorable letter to them. ;)

You can write to Jervis Johnson.

Jervis Johnson
c/o White Dwarf Design Studio
Games Workshop
Willow Road
Nottingham NG7 2WS
United Kingdom


Can they afford such a "Fine, go away if you don't like us" attitude? Are they crazy?

Can they afford it? Not really.
Are they crazy? The jury is still out.

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 15:42
Would anyone care to post an address that will actually go to someone in HQ where it has the slim hope of being seen?
I'm not writing for certain until I see the true scope of the rise, but I'll be happy to write a clear, reasoned and utterly ignorable letter to them. ;)

If you are all going to send letters to GWHQ, send them addressed to Mark Wells. Though I doubt more than a dozen of you will do it, if you manage a few hundred, then the man himself will get to see the impact.

And if you want GW to see there is a community who cares, post this idea on other forums and get everyone to state which forum they are a member of.

As I said though, I don't hold out much hope of an effort.

Templar Ben
13-05-2009, 15:48
I agree that not many will write.

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 15:52
I agree that not many will write.
And that is why people leaving GW's market just isn't a concern for them.

Meriwether
13-05-2009, 15:52
If an internet and write-in campaign can't save Firefly, it's not going to prevent a price increase.

GW has lots of data on how price increases effect their customer base -- it's called revenue. Disgruntled letters will do nothing to change their business decisions -- only business will do that. If revenue drops, then the TLA folks (CEO, CFO, etc) will adjust the business plan accordingly, to try to get it to rise again. If revenue goes up, then they will pat themselves on the back. If it stays constant... they will probably raise prices to see if demand will take it.

Supply and demand rules business. Write-ins do not.

Meri

Cane
13-05-2009, 16:02
For a company as niche and community driven like GW it is pretty amazing how they treat their customer base.

Can you imagine if Games Workshop still had thier own forum? The backlash on some of their decisions and rumored actions would be over 9000!

I don't necessarily agree that letters are hopeless since GW prides and models itself as a community driven franchise and you'll at least get a response back.

loveless
13-05-2009, 16:05
Can you imagine if Games Workshop still had thier own forum? The backlash on some of their decisions and rumored actions would be over 9000!


I'm guessing that's why they stopped having their own forum...well, part of the reason, at least.

It's harder for them to see complaints when they're not plastered on their own site. No news is good news, right? :p

Templar Ben
13-05-2009, 16:09
If an internet and write-in campaign can't save Firefly, it's not going to prevent a price increase.

GW has lots of data on how price increases effect their customer base -- it's called revenue. Disgruntled letters will do nothing to change their business decisions -- only business will do that. If revenue drops, then the TLA folks (CEO, CFO, etc) will adjust the business plan accordingly, to try to get it to rise again. If revenue goes up, then they will pat themselves on the back. If it stays constant... they will probably raise prices to see if demand will take it.

Supply and demand rules business. Write-ins do not.

Meri

I am curious how quickly they would respond though. Also would they see a decrease in revenue being caused by the price increase or would be it a generic "well it is a recession so it will pick up in a couple of years".

Data is great by analysis is where the rubber meets the road.


For a company as niche and community driven like GW it is pretty amazing how they treat their customer base.

Can you imagine if Games Workshop still had thier own forum? The backlash on some of their decisions and rumored actions would be over 9000!

I don't necessarily agree that letters are hopeless since GW prides and models itself as a community driven franchise and you'll at least get a response back.

They don't going overseas unless you include a SASE. At least they have never written me back.

Meriwether
13-05-2009, 16:11
I am curious how quickly they would respond though. Also would they see a decrease in revenue being caused by the price increase or would be it a generic "well it is a recession so it will pick up in a couple of years".

Data is great by analysis is where the rubber meets the road.

Yup. Who knows... They have BIPs (Big Important People) to crunch numbers and ascertain causes and adjust business plans accordingly. What they will actually do in any given situation is anybody's guess...

...but I can *guarantee* you it won't be in response to some kind of write-in campaign.

Meri

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 16:18
A letter campaign would have an impact, but it would require a degree of co-ordination and commitment that, to be frank, I would find impossible to believe you would get from the majority of wargames website members. Too many people are whiners and not action takers.

Meriwether
13-05-2009, 16:19
Letter writing campaigns work with politicians because they want your vote.

GW wants your cash. When dealing with a business, you vote with your wallet. Nothing else matters to them. (Even good customer service, such as it is, is founded upon maximizing profits).

Meri

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 16:22
Letter writing campaigns work with politicians because they want your vote.

GW wants your cash. When dealing with a business, you vote with your wallet. Nothing else matters to them. (Even good customer service, such as it is, is founded upon maximizing profits).

Meri

While I agree in part, GW have enough clever people to extrapolate and predict what would happen if the letter campaign represented a decent enough cross section of the market. All they would do would be to compare their actual sales volumes in various countries with the promises on the letter campaign against their own expectations of sales volumes, and they would get their answer.
Now whether they take action is another thing ;)

Cane
13-05-2009, 16:23
And really, the customers have already responded to GW's business "strategy". Over the years they've turned out a decreasing amount of overall sales which is a result of people leaving the GW Hobby. Quite understandable since their actions towards their community has been poor at best despite being a community and niche driven enterprise.

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 16:27
Quite understandable since their actions towards their community has been poor at best despite being a community and niche driven enterprise.

How would you define that, aside from price increases?

Kronos
13-05-2009, 16:44
my theorry for the price rise is they need the funds for the new chaos dwarf or squat army which "will" come out.


seriously though the issue of gw's price rise hasn't really bothered me... last time i bought anything form gw was just over a year ago... i only buy form forge world these days... yes same company and ridiculous prices in some things but if I'm going ot get wallet raped over miniatures... they might aswell be very nice ones.

loveless
13-05-2009, 16:46
How would you define that, aside from price increases?

Well, I remember once upon a time when I sent an e-mail to GW, I'd get a response. This seems to no longer be the case, which is quite sad when other miniature/gaming companies get back to me within 3 days.

Phone service is hit-or-miss, they at least answer the questions when they finally get around to picking up the phone, however.

The price increases are the worst, but they aren't a customer service issue. I know I'll be asked to renew my White Dwarf soon, but at $9 (US) an issue...ha - No Quarter costs a fraction of that, and I think I can get Newtype for the same cost.

On White Dwarf, I've had to call 4 times in 2 years because of issues never arriving. They did send out replacements right away (except the first time), but it seems like more calls than I should have to make.

I haven't had to get a replacement part/sprue in about 3 years - how's this being handled as of late? Are they still quick on the pickup with these?

Overall, they've gone from an A in Customer Service to a B. Overall service has gone from an A- to a C. Meanwhile, GW Competitors haven't degraded - Privateer Press' Customer Service has remained an A since I started with their products 3 years ago, for example, with their overall service at an A.

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 16:58
Well, I remember once upon a time when I sent an e-mail to GW, I'd get a response. This seems to no longer be the case, which is quite sad when other miniature/gaming companies get back to me within 3 days.......Phone service is hit-or-miss, they at least answer the questions when they finally get around to picking up the phone, however.

These 2 can be lumped together. Obviously a staffing issue, which means either a) whoever is in charge is having to prioritise because of lack of staff, or b) they have lost some of the monitoring systems. Definitely not good either way.


On White Dwarf, I've had to call 4 times in 2 years because of issues never arriving. They did send out replacements right away (except the first time), but it seems like more calls than I should have to make. That isn't GW's fault but their distributors. And your issues will become a sta in their re-negotiations.


I haven't had to get a replacement part/sprue in about 3 years - how's this being handled as of late? Are they still quick on the pickup with these?
Still top as far as I am concerned. Called GW about 2 sprues of miscast Epic scouts and got the entire order replaced (2 boxes). Also the same with FW Grey Knight Terminators.

Damien 1427
13-05-2009, 17:05
When we actually know what's going up on Monday, I'll react.

stonehorse
13-05-2009, 17:37
I'm actually going to wait for a couple of reasons:

2) I want to be sure of the range of their "price adjustments" so I can gauge my response appropriately. Last I checked, we had nothing solid in regards to the magnitude of the changes.

Good point, in which case I suggest that this thread be used to post up our letters before we send them off.

I'll be working on mine tonight.

It may be futile, but I'd rather know I voiced my opinion.


If you are all going to send letters to GWHQ, send them addressed to Mark Wells.

Thanks for the heads up!

Cane
13-05-2009, 17:50
How would you define that, aside from price increases?

Examples at the top of my head:

1. Increasing prices at one of the worst if not the worst economic periods for GW's customers.
2. Shutting down forums.
3. Shutting down tournaments/convention events.
4. Goes with number one but halving the IG troopset boxes and then marking up the prices all the while not adding anything to compensate. It doesn't look good to put it mildly and banks on customer ignorance.
5. If the rumors are true, GW's business bullying towards indies that aren't GW clones.

All of these point towards GW not putting forth much effort towards their community especially in terms of customer retention. And if you don't live in the UK there's also far less GW-official stores with little evidence to suggest they are wanting to do otherwise with the shutting down of the Memphis bunker and the merging of GW Canada into a North American GW.

Xelloss
13-05-2009, 17:58
Instead of complain letters, maybe we should mail them economics lessons ? Someone here must be either student either teacher in this topic, no ?

BrazenSix
13-05-2009, 17:59
I think it would be wise not to speculate yet until we see the exact impact this will have on us all and whether it will be specific models/boxes or a widespread increase. Just the way I'm thinking... no sense in getting all worked up when I don't even know what the impact is/will/may be.

yabbadabba
13-05-2009, 18:46
Examples at the top of my head:

1. Increasing prices at one of the worst if not the worst economic periods for GW's customers.
2. Shutting down forums.
3. Shutting down tournaments/convention events.
4. Goes with number one but halving the IG troopset boxes and then marking up the prices all the while not adding anything to compensate. It doesn't look good to put it mildly and banks on customer ignorance.
5. If the rumors are true, GW's business bullying towards indies that aren't GW clones.

All of these point towards GW not putting forth much effort towards their community especially in terms of customer retention. And if you don't live in the UK there's also far less GW-official stores with little evidence to suggest they are wanting to do otherwise with the shutting down of the Memphis bunker and the merging of GW Canada into a North American GW.


So let me get this right. You have based your reasons on price rises (which I said leave out), cost cutting efficiencies and rumours. So GW should enhance it's community relations by running at a loss, not keeping tight on costs and rumour?
What planet you on? One where businesses are charities and governments and banks have bottomless pockets to bail them out?
Now if you had said - failure to adapt products to match community expectations and needs, failure to provide a consistent product quality - those are good reasons for citing failure to support the community.

de Selby
13-05-2009, 20:16
Yabbadabba, any example that Cane gives of what he considers poor community support could come under 'cost cutting efficiencies'. So could 'failing to match expectations' (very vague) or 'failing to provide consistent product quality'.

Anyhow I won't be writing any letters about prices. I don't even know what the price rises are. It sounds like a new plastic army could be getting 10 to 20% more expensive in June. If so, I will vote with my wallet, the way I did with their metals blisters and White Dwarf.

Jedi152
13-05-2009, 20:31
Yes, letters will probably be filed in the bin, so i shan't bother.

Interesting that every other company's reaction to the credit crisis is to slash prices and offer incentives to keep people buying and GW's is to raise prices and adjust the rules so more models are needed for a viable army.

Lord of Worms
13-05-2009, 20:43
Aren't endless threads of complaining enough. I mean, they have guys reading these forums right? They know we don't like it.:mad:

Jedi152
13-05-2009, 20:46
Exactly. They'll know everything we write about here, and probably sit around laughing about it as they watch another thousand fanboys empty their piggy banks into their local store. :p

Damien 1427
13-05-2009, 21:07
I mean, they have guys reading these forums right?

I know some of the design studio do, as well as a fair few ex-devs, but I doubt they have anyone of any real authority on the pricing matter browsing this place in any official capacity.

I doubt Mark Wells bothers to read forums. Or even knows they exist. He has important things to do, like play golf, or sacrafice newborns to his dark and unspeakable patron.

Jedi152
13-05-2009, 21:33
And buy ivory back scratchers...

andyg2006
13-05-2009, 21:41
Okay, so, given that GW started saying "metal models are more expensive to make, which is why we're doing more plastics" and then pulled the rug out from under the feet of everyone by not only increasing metal model prices, but also the plastic ones, too (especially on stuff like the Catachans which have not actually changed one bean since release in 3rd(?) ed), it figures that GW make less profit on the metals than they do on the plastics.
Therefore, to anyone who's looking at starting or updating/upgrading a Guard army, I say:
Buy the metal 10-man squads for 20 and not the plastic 10 man's for 15.

For me, a lot of the "uh oh, were in for a tough time of it" stuff started when the all-metal VC Blood Knights came out for something ridiculous like 40(?), when quite a few people just went out and bought any other human-style plastic cavalry and did a little converting with head-swaps for about 12-15.
Also, something new and potentially quite useful like the Marine thunderfire cannon should have been all-plastic and 20 max, but at 30 it's stupidly expensive (given that most of the superstructure for the gun-carriage seems to have been taken -or could easily have been taken- directly from the Basilisk and Razorback/Land Raider turrets).

In terms of how much plastic has gone into the GW models of late, take a look at the new Imperial vehicles:
The Valkyrie and the Baneblade have about the same amount of plastic on them, but one is nearly double the cost of the other...wtf?!

Seville
13-05-2009, 21:49
Oh God. Pay the prices or don't. If you decide not to, then quit whining about the prices to anyone and everyone on the internet. :rolleyes:

Hlokk
13-05-2009, 21:54
Oh God. Pay the prices or don't. If you decide not to, then quit whining about the prices to anyone and everyone on the internet. :rolleyes:
And if you don't like reading about it, go look at something else :rolleyes:

Written and sent letters to Tom Kirby, Mark Wells and a couple of other people (cheers boogle). Will post what responces I get on here.

loveless
13-05-2009, 22:00
Oh God. Pay the prices or don't. If you decide not to, then quit whining about the prices to anyone and everyone on the internet. :rolleyes:

Oh God. Read the thread or don't. If you decide to read it, then quit whining about the topic to anyone and everyone on the internet. :rolleyes:

Jedi152
13-05-2009, 22:05
Oh God. Pay the prices or don't. If you decide not to, then quit whining about the prices to anyone and everyone on the internet. :rolleyes:
You know what? I said that a few years back. You'll be here in a few more price rises time.

Damien 1427
13-05-2009, 22:23
You know what? I said that a few years back. You'll be here in a few more price rises time.

Indeed. There's only so much one man can take before you start complaining about it.

Seville
13-05-2009, 22:42
And if you don't like reading about it, go look at something else :rolleyes:

Written and sent letters to Tom Kirby, Mark Wells and a couple of other people (cheers boogle). Will post what responces I get on here.

Sure enough. But I always feel compelled to share my opinion on how lame I think these threads are. They've been going on non-stop for more than a decade, and GW still keeps going strong.

But yeah, I am out of here. Reply to this if you want, but I likely won't read it.

Senbei
13-05-2009, 23:17
But yeah, I am out of here. Reply to this if you want, but I likely won't read it.

A bit of a waste of time and effort then?

I wasn't 'priced out', I'm a collector and so just don't feel the need to buy large amounts of plastic. Whilst GW may be telling us that metal is very expensive, and it is true for those contained in their 'white metal' alloy, lead is currently at it's lowest price in about 50 years. Reaper have actualy started casting some of their minis in the 'ole toxic' again because it allows them to offer a nice discount to their customers. I admit that this is unlikely to net them a huge profit but it pleases their fans and makes GW look a litty greedy with their current rises.

I realise that GW have to fund stores and pay staff but... the fact that you can mail-order stuff at up to 40% off store prices has to say something about their current business practices.

stonehorse
13-05-2009, 23:27
Please don't feed the Troll.

iamfanboy
13-05-2009, 23:35
Please don't feed the Troll.
But he looks so hungry and sad, with his "I <3 Marines" t-shirt hanging off his body - he probably can't afford food, since he's spending all that money on buying up minis before the latest price raise kicks in... It's so depressing, to think of a fine upstanding troll in such straits.

Can't we please, please feed him just a little bit?

loveless
14-05-2009, 03:49
But he looks so hungry and sad, with his "I <3 Marines" t-shirt hanging off his body - he probably can't afford food, since he's spending all that money on buying up minis before the latest price raise kicks in... It's so depressing, to think of a fine upstanding troll in such straits.

Can't we please, please feed him just a little bit?

He already failed his stubborn leadership check and fled. Silly trolls - low Leadership, you see.

Hellebore
14-05-2009, 04:03
GW is a doing a good thing keeping the medical services in custom. You don't think all that apoplexy and righteous indignation is GOOD for your heart do you?

I used to go to the local GW all the time. Now the price rises have been coming thick and fast, I can't buy stuff from them and I won't use their place if I'm not buying.

So I buy product from a cheaper source. These price rises just reduce the amount of stuff I can afford to get.

Eventually I won't buy anything, but at the moment I can still afford it.

Hellebore

ryntyrr
14-05-2009, 04:12
I would suggest that if you were going to wirte a letter of importance about something, write one to your elected politician about issues that effect you locally or nationally.

You'll get more done in effort and substance than writing a letter to GW about price rises. I say if GW is fanatical about hanging themselves. let them do it. They'll do it anyway.

Lord of Worms
14-05-2009, 05:41
I would suggest that if you were going to wirte a letter of importance about something, write one to your elected politician about issues that effect you locally or nationally.

You'll get more done in effort and substance than writing a letter to GW about price rises. I say if GW is fanatical about hanging themselves. let them do it. They'll do it anyway.

Both those avenues are equal wastes of time. In both cases they know exactly what they're doing and who it pisses off. Unless either outpours in extremely unxpected volume and vitriol it really won't change anything.

chromedog
14-05-2009, 06:54
Eventually, these price increases will mean that I don't buy any more from them.
However, with over 27000 pts in combined armies (all with multiple FOC choices), there aren't really that many more pieces I'll need to buy, and I'll continue to play with what I have - and not start a new army (I have the ones I want, and none of the others really appeal to me for one reason or another.).

alexh
14-05-2009, 08:08
I agree, another price rise is terrible at this time of global economic recession but those planning on writing to GW would probably do well to ask for an overview of their income and expenditure for the past year. They have been spending a lot of money on moulds for new plastic kits lately (drop pods, stompa, shadowsword, valkyrie, guard command squads and, if the rumours are true, thunderhawk). Sales of space marines can't sustain everything so this latest price rise might be justified in order to keep the company afloat. I understand that some people may feel that they have been priced out of the market and will ,flat out, refuse to buy direct from GW anymore. I, myself, have bought from online retailers rather than GW to get a cheaper deal, and, to a certain extent, this is good for GW as they get more usable income from indies than their own stores but I will continue to support my local store as I enjoy going there and would have nowhere to play if I lost it.

Fenrir
14-05-2009, 08:42
Both those avenues are equal wastes of time. In both cases they know exactly what they're doing and who it pisses off. Unless either outpours in extremely unxpected volume and vitriol it really won't change anything.


It's no bother to me. I claim all of my GW stuff on MP's expenses anyway.

alexh
14-05-2009, 08:57
It's no bother to me. I claim all of my GW stuff on MP's expenses anyway.

At last, a worthwhile expenses claim :D:D

Lucifer216
14-05-2009, 09:08
I have written and sent a letter to Mark Wells, outlining why I think the continued price increases during a recession are a bad thing. That was over a week ago and I've yet to receive a response.

Jedi152
14-05-2009, 09:36
I wouldn't hold your breath.

iamfanboy
14-05-2009, 09:41
I wouldn't hold your breath.
Holding one's breath may be the most effective tactic proposed yet in price changing!

Imagine a million letters written in saying, "I'm gonna hold my breath until you change the prices or until I die - whichever comes first! Do you want my death on your conscience!?"

Hm. Naw, probably wouldn't work. I bet he had his conscience surgically removed and keeps it in a jar next to his desk.

bringerofdecay
14-05-2009, 10:14
i'm thinking of writing in once i've seen the actual price changes, of course, if they'd done as they had said and posted the price changes out to independents and been honest instead of trying to shroud it in secrecy (presumably the hope that people would panic buy?).

but basically they've lost me as a customer at the first point (i'll still be buying armies, but through ebay) through to dodgey practices, continued lies and attempting to treat people like idiots.

Cane
14-05-2009, 14:33
So let me get this right. You have based your reasons on price rises (which I said leave out), cost cutting efficiencies and rumours. So GW should enhance it's community relations by running at a loss, not keeping tight on costs and rumour?
What planet you on? One where businesses are charities and governments and banks have bottomless pockets to bail them out?
Now if you had said - failure to adapt products to match community expectations and needs, failure to provide a consistent product quality - those are good reasons for citing failure to support the community.


Yabbadabba, any example that Cane gives of what he considers poor community support could come under 'cost cutting efficiencies'. So could 'failing to match expectations' (very vague) or 'failing to provide consistent product quality'.



Bingo. They cut out their community features (and forums and such are miniscule costs for GW) and overprice devalued products while really offering nothing in return and with the inevitable price hike around the corner; they're charging even more for less. Not to mention that they leave several armies with ancient rulebooks and models at the same prices as brand new and higher quality boxsets which only devalues the franchise.

GW's horrible UK retail chain business model, incredibly incompetent business management, obvious lack or disregard of environmental scanning, and failure to have research information detailing customer purchase behavior are all signs of a bad, bad company. It really sucks for us colonial folk too who don't live in the UK since even in cities with over a million people there isn't an official GW store within hundreds of miles in some cases and thus don't see where the premium money is being wasted on, the stores.

Templar Ben
14-05-2009, 16:26
I wouldn't hold your breath.

That does say how they view the customer.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 16:31
That does say how they view the customer.

Yeah, um, write a complaint letter about prices to the CEO of Microsoft... Or Hasbro...

And see if you get a letter back. If you do, I'll be surprised. If you do *and* it's not a form letter, I'll have a heart attack.

Meri

Fenrir
14-05-2009, 16:36
That does say how they view the customer.


It doesn't say anything that another large company wouldn't say.

Just don't buy the products - easiest way to make point.

Templar Ben
14-05-2009, 16:39
But if they are trying to represent themselves as a game that appreciates their customers and their actions don't show that it speaks volumes.

yabbadabba
14-05-2009, 16:43
It doesn't say anything that another large company wouldn't say.
Just don't buy the products - easiest way to make point.

But its certainly not the most effective, impacting or vocal - it's quite a lazy way of making a point. Companies factor in losing customers all the time. Thats why there is always such a big push on getting new ones or reminding lapsed ones.

Seriously, if you want to make an impact there are ways of doing it, even with complaint letters. Get a copy of all the complaint letters made from this forum(s), mark the ones with no replies, give it to a shareholder with some balls and present them at the next shareholders meeting.

You know what I wouldn't hold my breath for - more than a dozen people on Warseer bothering to make the effort :rolleyes:.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 16:57
But if they are trying to represent themselves as a game that appreciates their customers and their actions don't show that it speaks volumes.

No, it doesn't.

It's not as if they don't know that some people are going to be pissed off by a price increase. Hell, people get pissed off no matter *what* you change... Even if they lowered prices, people who just bought stuff would be pissed off, because they'll feel that they should have been notified, and now deserve compensation to make up the difference... They'll try to return it to their LGS at the higher price so they can buy it back at the lower, and that will **** off the LGSes...

Literally, you cannot do *anything* as a company without pissing off at least some people. They are smart enough to know that raising prices will always **** off some people.

They _already know_ that some of their customer base is mad about this change. Some of their customer base is mad about every change. The BIPs have taken a gamble that they will get more out of this price increase than they will lose in grumpy customers.

Meri

Emperor's Grace
14-05-2009, 17:52
I said it elsewhere but I think that an effective form of protest would be to buy non-GW and mail the empty packaging to GWHQ with a short note of "Before the price increase <or other cause of your choice>, I would have purchased from GW. Regrettably, your former loyal customer".

Votes with your wallet and drives the point home that you were bothered enough to do it and pay postage. (Same reason that a letter is worth 2 phone calls in politics. The more bother that you go through, the more "silent" votes they figure are out there.)

Still not sure that it would work unless enough people did it...

A news item focused on such a campaign would be handy too.
(And it's just weird enough to make the news) :D

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 17:57
"GRUMPY NERDS WASTE POSTAGE
Details at 11"

Um, no, it is not weird enough to make the news.

Templar Ben
14-05-2009, 18:14
Hasbro will respond but to compare a tiny company like GW to Hasbro or even worse Microsoft is silly. GW is going to reap what they sow if they can't have the common courtesy of acknowledging their customers.

yabbadabba
14-05-2009, 18:15
"GRUMPY NERDS WASTE POSTAGE
Details at 11".

Lol! I can see it now ... ...

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 18:17
A tiny company has even *less* minions to deal with grumpy-mail...

Seriously, what are they supposed to do, hire someone just to deal with the people who get grumpy when they do (or don't do) anything at all? That sounds like a waste of resources to me!

Meri

Templar Ben
14-05-2009, 18:56
It is as much a waste of resources as any other form of customer service.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 19:16
Customer service is, for the most part, about keeping customers from becoming grumpy in the first place. GW has always done a great job replacing models and books when anything is wrong with them, and in my experience they have always been tremendously polite.

However, knowing that a certain percentage will be grumpy about everything they do, I don't blame them for not sweating it too much. There are too many real places they fall down to lambast them for this one, IMO.

Meri

Damien 1427
14-05-2009, 19:18
Hasbro will respond but to compare a tiny company like GW to Hasbro or even worse Microsoft is silly. GW is going to reap what they sow if they can't have the common courtesy of acknowledging their customers.

Truth be told, Microsoft has little competition, and in certain areas (Like the Xbox) have dropped prices. Hasbro merely dictates RRP, which is usually dropped by retailers, and even then (In the case of the Transformers fandom) explains the hows and whys, and usually gives ample time to prepare.

loveless
14-05-2009, 19:19
A tiny company has even *less* minions to deal with grumpy-mail...

Seriously, what are they supposed to do, hire someone just to deal with the people who get grumpy when they do (or don't do) anything at all? That sounds like a waste of resources to me!

Meri

Oh, come on, Meri - from the amount of cash they'll be pulling in after the Goldswords hit the shelves? Heck, GW will be able to hire Jervis a personal Belt-Buckler. And that's just after selling a dozen boxes of them! Imagine if they sell two dozen!

Ah, hyperbole, such fun.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 19:25
Oh, come on, Meri - from the amount of cash they'll be pulling in after the Goldswords hit the shelves? Heck, GW will be able to hire Jervis a personal Belt-Buckler. And that's just after selling a dozen boxes of them! Imagine if they sell two dozen!

Ah, hyperbole, such fun.

I don't know what a Goldsword is... I am assuming that they are not selling swords made out of gold.

Meri

Wolf Scout Ewan
14-05-2009, 19:26
Lately some of the business decisions have been right out of "The Apprentice"... sooner we get a change of management the better!

ryntyrr
14-05-2009, 19:35
I would suggest having a customer service department would be a horrible idea. Why would you want to give GW any more of a competative advantage than they have now?

Surely having no customer service department, will leave the masses of "grumpy" gamers to start up other gaming company games and leave GW. Is not this the case now?

So for all the wrong reasons. Not having a customer service department is a good thing ;). Why would you want to sedate angry customers even if you could sedate even a portion of them and keep them buying your products. Sound insane to me.

loveless
14-05-2009, 19:37
I don't know what a Goldsword is... I am assuming that they are not selling swords made out of gold.

Meri

It's the best explanation for the price of the "plastic" Greatswords. Clearly some sort of precious metal mixed into the material.

Meriwether
14-05-2009, 19:38
It's the best explanation for the price of the "plastic" Greatswords. Clearly some sort of precious metal mixed into the material.

Ah. The price of GW miniatures are, of course, determined by only one thing: what people are willing to pay for them.

Meri

loveless
14-05-2009, 20:15
Ah. The price of GW miniatures are, of course, determined by only one thing: what people are willing to pay for them.

Meri

This would be true if:
1) GW did market research to see what people are willing to pay. This doesn't work out, however, as most people will put down a number so low that there's no way to make money off of the product.
2) GW adjusted prices down after an item failed to sell appropriately. In my time enjoying their products, this hasn't happened. Prices go up, but they don't go down (outside of clearance sales and bundle packs).

It seems more like the price of GW miniatures are determined by whatever number they feel like. Now, as to the success of said pricing - that is determined by what people are willing to pay.

Mind you, if the Goldswords inspire GW to make a kit cheaper, I'll applaud them...I'm thinking a slow clap, half-sincere...for paying attention.

I can vote with my wallet - I intend to. As I've said in other threads, I was going to revive my Empire army with this release - instead, I've stopped buying Fantasy products altogether until this gets sorted out. Will GW notice? I doubt it. Even if they did, I doubt they'd lower the price - they seem more likely to explain what a great value the Goldswords are and think that people will get used to the price eventually. 10 20mm plastic miniatures are not worth $42 to me...especially when I could get 10 30mm metal miniatures for a few dollars more. That's just me, though. They hit my limit, and it bothers me. I know a few hundred dollars doesn't mean anything to them, but rather than drop it on the Empire, I'm going to be spending it on other wargames, video games, and books. It's lost sales for them, but I'm actually thinking a lot more people are going to "give in" and pay for the Goldswords as opposed to actually "boycotting" the price increase.

Eek, sorry - got a bit off topic there.

As an aside, I keep typing Goldswords instead of Greatswords...stupid sticking nicknames.

Emperor's Grace
15-05-2009, 18:44
"GRUMPY NERDS WASTE POSTAGE
Details at 11"

Um, no, it is not weird enough to make the news.

Grumpy nerds attack new trek movie did...

... and there was even less of a story there.

boogle
15-05-2009, 22:41
Well i've been out of the country for 5 days, got back and no response at all, so this weekend i'll ostly be writing to:
Mark Wells
Jervis Johnson
Whoever has scuplted the Goldswords, telling them that in the past i really enjoyed their work, but due to terrible mismangement above their head, i won't be able to enjoy purchasing them
Maybe even Tom Kirby if i am still as annoyed as I am now

cttran77
15-05-2009, 23:37
I was going to revive my Empire army with this release - instead, I've stopped buying Fantasy products altogether until this gets sorted out.
Loveless, this was exactly my reaction to the Greatswords as well, so you're not alone. Pitty, I was looking forward to painting their armor (basecoat with Boltgun Metal, drybrush w/ Chainmail, line highlight w/ Mithril Silver, and then a wash w/ Badab Black & Delvan Mud... :()

Let's hope when their sales drop they will interpret it as "we need to drop our prices to generate more sales", and not "WH fantasy just doesn't sell, focus more on Lotr!" or "we need to raise prices even more to make up for diminished sales". Bah! I have enough minis to last me a life time, I don't care, but when they make the hobby entry barrier impenetrable for the new guy it means far fewer people to play against for the rest of us.

boogle
16-05-2009, 00:06
I used to go to the local GW all the time. Now the price rises have been coming thick and fast, I can't buy stuff from them and I won't use their place if I'm not buying.



This is my feeling, I like my local store, they made me feel welcome, and i actually feel sorry for the way they are generally treated, but i feel i wil be taking the p*** if i go in there anymore as i am dead set against what the company is doing in terms of overall customer service.

What won't surprise me at all is the amount of knock off, home cast up stuff that will go up on ebay in the light of these increases (i've heard in the past hour that Tac Squads 'may' be priced at 25 for 10)

TheDarkDuke
16-05-2009, 00:36
The only way to get the point across is with are wallets. The more we ALL don't buy, the more they will realize just how ridiculous there random price increases are. Which seriously the way they are going is going to happen.

Its nothing new to see posters on this forum with 6 months from join date or 100 of less posts to say "these prices are crazy Im outta here". The key is when you start to see (which we have seen here already) on these forums of members with years on there join dates, thousands of posts... who have for the most part defended and championed the hobby, who are now on the "this is just too much" side. That is the real difference this time around, and if GW think someone will replace these types of people.... they better take a hard look at every other company in the world before they learn the lesson of Bankruptcy.

Meriwether
16-05-2009, 01:51
Grumpy nerds attack new trek movie did...

... and there was even less of a story there.

I think you are seriously overestimating the popularity of GW games wrt Star Trek... At least most of the populace of the country have an idea of what Star Trek *is*.

Meri

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 02:13
i've heard in the past hour that Tac Squads 'may' be priced at 25 for 10

Until GW makes the announcement, I'm treating every 'maybe' price as pure speculation.

boogle
16-05-2009, 02:26
Until GW makes the announcement, I'm treating every 'maybe' price as pure speculation.

Me too, part of me hopes it's not true as a price like that on it's flagship boxed set will have parents running to the nearest gaming store to get discounted computer games for that price.

Rumour also has it that AOBR, BFSP and MOM will be going up to 50 as well

Just been on Dakka, and someone has come up with a really good idea (not sure if it works however):

Buy lots of stuff between now and May 31st, don't open it, keep the receipt, take it back on June the 2nd, and get a refund based on their new prices!!

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 03:07
Buy lots of stuff between now and May 31st, don't open it, keep the receipt, take it back on June the 2nd, and get a refund based on their new prices!!

I've heard that one several times now.

There's about a 1% chance it'd work. :)

boogle
16-05-2009, 03:15
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/common/WindowPopup.jsp?pIndex=6 They seem to make no provision for not doing it via their website.

BTW, i got the info from Dead Memories on Dakka and can confirm the source he cited as I know them both very well (the source being my ex manager when i worked for GW)

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 03:32
Well, GW can't put the announcement off forever, we have to find out soon.

SimonL
16-05-2009, 03:50
Buy lots of stuff between now and May 31st, don't open it, keep the receipt, take it back on June the 2nd, and get a refund based on their new prices!!


Epic Fail...you will have to bring in a receipt with...gasp...the price you intitially paid. :rolleyes:

boogle
16-05-2009, 03:59
Epic Fail...you will have to bring in a receipt with...gasp...the price you intitially paid. :rolleyes:

For those that are willing to take advantage of GW's excellent front of house customer service however, they could give it a try, or exchange it for stuff that would have cost them more to buy post June (which incidentally won't be me, as i'll be buying stuff from GW when the price goes back down below my threshold - in other words that'll never happen).

Actually that brings up an interesting point: if someone did do that, it would be a right pain for the poor staff member to sort out, as he would have to scan all of the products, then reprice them for the refund, you'd have to be a real **** to want to do that, i'd imagine.

Damien 1427
16-05-2009, 11:06
Well, GW can't put the announcement off forever, we have to find out soon.

Word is Monday.

I've a feeling Battleforces will be hitting 55, the big boxed games will be 50, 12 "squad" boxes will rise to 15, and the various LotR boxes will be up to 20. This is all merely speculation, rumour and based on what I would personally consider likely, don't take it as anything but that.

And I just noticed yesterday the bog-standard Ork Dread is a whopping 35! :wtf: I could build a far better one for half of that out of spare parts and still have money left over to buy dinner.

phoenixlaw
16-05-2009, 12:28
I emailed them about a month ago when the prices for the greatswords came out.

They still haven't even bothered to reply to me.
They've got no idea about customer service.

phoenixlaw
16-05-2009, 12:39
A friend of mine works for Watchdog and they are planning a show on companies that get children addicted to expensive products and charge serious 's for something that is essentially a piece of card/ piece of cheap plastic.
He's looking at the prices of plastic models - especially the pounds for points issue (charging more for something because its better in game, but costs no more to make)
I've sent him a link to the Price increase thread to have a look at peoples reactions/ points that are being made.

It will be interesting to see what response GW give to Watchdog when they contact them. He will be calling Head office and asking the phone people, also popping into local stores to get an idea there too.

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 12:51
A friend of mine works for Watchdog and they are planning a show on companies that get children addicted to expensive products ....It will be interesting to see what response GW give to Watchdog when they contact them.

Well, unlike 'toys', Games Workshop provide a productive hobby, so they have a head-start over fad toys.

The Judge
16-05-2009, 13:42
The idea of buying things and waiting for them to "rise" in price to then return them is not a solid idea, but all GW stores run an Exchange policy. If there's something you wanted that is not going up in price, buy a load of things that are, wait for them to increase in value and then exchange for what you really wanted, having spent a lot less money!

Damien 1427
16-05-2009, 14:07
Right-o, got some far more solid news from a Redshirt.

Basically, plastic boxes are going up a band, so 12 to 15, 15 to 18, 18 to 20, and Battleforces are going up to 55 or 60 depending on the contents.

Which means two things. One, it means that Tactical Squads are finally 20 (1 a year increase), and two, it means Guardsmen boxes have gone from effectively 9 for 10 to 15 for 10.

Of course, this is from a Redshirt, so take it with the standard-issue salt grain, but the chap in question is usually reliable.

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 14:16
Did the Redshirt say that their info came from HQ, or was he simply passing on 'what he'd heard'.

Damien 1427
16-05-2009, 14:18
Did the Redshirt say that their info came from HQ, or was he simply passing on 'what he'd heard'.

I didn't ask, but I assume it's from higher up the ladder.

blongbling
16-05-2009, 17:19
the announcement will be made to staff and trade stores on monday, retail staff havent been told at all yet, neither have any head office staff apart from those organising it. After monday you will all know i guess

Harry
16-05-2009, 17:28
Well you be sure and tell them first thing Monday that it's not too late to change their minds. :D

Chaos and Evil
16-05-2009, 17:41
GW should really try and cushion the blow by leaking details of something cool they've been working on.


*pokes Harry*

Reinholt
16-05-2009, 20:28
A little context for why this is being so poorly received (at least in the US):

- Consumer Price Index: Down .7%
- Core Inflation: Up ~1% year to year (adjusting for the increase in tobacco tax).
- Energy Prices: Down ~25% year to year.
- Wholesale Producer Prices: Down ~3.7% year to year.
- Unemployment: ~8.9% as per the BLS (this data may understate the actual rate)

Pretty much everyone else is getting killed. Raising prices right now is, to be blunt, insanity.

Vermin-thing
17-05-2009, 01:25
Raising prices right now is, to be blunt, insanity.

This is madness... no, this is GW!

Anyways, All we can do is hope that there is an end to this ever growing darkness, and we see a light at the end of this very long dark tunnel. The best things that could (and wont) happen is that a new competent management team takes over, 2 they come to their senses and DROP the prices to a manageable level, 3 GW leeks some info on the upcoming releases to give us a reason to stay. In the end I feel like GW as a whole is just digging them selves into the ground. (or the realm of chaos) As Reinholt said, raising prices because you want a nice new boat in a recession is a GOOD idea. ;)

Crazy Harborc
17-05-2009, 02:16
I sent in my letters about price hikes to GW, over two years ago.

With the continuing lowering of the numbers in a box along with increases in prices for those boxes, I buy very, VERY little GW minies.

With the increase in the choices of good 28mm plastic and metal minies NOT made by GW, my money is spoken for.

Most of my back log of "to assemble and paint" minies have not been GW made for about a year and a half.

Havarel
17-05-2009, 10:01
I'm now actually glad I've got 80+ Guardsmen still sat on sprues!

freddythebig
17-05-2009, 11:23
Well, unlike 'toys', Games Workshop provide a productive hobby, so they have a head-start over fad toys.

You Know that and I know that but for most of the parents of the transient target demographic that GW is apparently targeting these days, there is no difference.
If 'little Jimmy' gets into GW and then drops it a year or two later, then to most parents it was a fad toy.

Xarius
17-05-2009, 21:23
if everyone possible sent a mass (generic if you will) letter to Jervis at the adress slready stated and added their forum etc. at the bottom it could have at least some sort of effect. If this letter included reasonable arguments against thier rises, the impact on their hobbyists, us not knowing what is being released in 3 months and thus not having a reason to stay etc. i would be happy to get it on all the forums i moderate/ am a member of and possibly organise it but....

anyone willing to write?

pm me or post here

Y'inglye
18-05-2009, 00:01
From the GW US website:

Pricing Update

In June we will be increasing the price of some of our metal, plastic and hobby products. This price change will take effect from the 1st of June.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9600115

So here you go. Buy now.

boogle
18-05-2009, 00:22
From the GW US website:


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9600115

So here you go. Buy now.

Why should we?

Iverald
18-05-2009, 00:31
@ boogle: Point.

If they should have happened to state as to why (insert a common expletive here) the prices are to be increased, I would be slightly less angered.

Crazy Harborc
18-05-2009, 00:44
I have to confess....In Janurary, 2009 I did buy three boxes of GW plastic minies......That was at the store closing sale at St.Louis Mills mall, GW store.

Now that WD is $75(USD) on a renewal of a subscription for ONE year of WD, NOT going to happen. You did get 15 issues "for the price of 12". Newstand price $90. for 12 issues. To be honest, for a catalog of GW goodies called White Dwarf magazine...no thank you.

Last time it was $60 for 12 issues, $50(USD) for a store pickup subscription.
My last issue was the month GW closed up shop in my state.

doombanner
18-05-2009, 02:25
You can write to Jervis Johnson.

Don't bug Jervis, he's a nice guy who does try, and understands the spirit of the game. Write to the CEO of the company, who is actually responsible for setting company policy.

Come on now...

~Doom Banner

Chaos and Evil
18-05-2009, 03:12
*************************



Don't bug Jervis, he's a nice guy who does try, and understands the spirit of the game. Write to the CEO of the company, who is actually responsible for setting company policy.

Come on now...

~Doom Banner


I agree, bugging Jervis isn't going to do anything, and he is indeed a nice guy.

Go bug Mark Wells or Tom Kirby or something.

AngryAngel
18-05-2009, 04:14
Right-o, got some far more solid news from a Redshirt.

Basically, plastic boxes are going up a band, so 12 to 15, 15 to 18, 18 to 20, and Battleforces are going up to 55 or 60 depending on the contents.

Which means two things. One, it means that Tactical Squads are finally 20 (1 a year increase), and two, it means Guardsmen boxes have gone from effectively 9 for 10 to 15 for 10.

Of course, this is from a Redshirt, so take it with the standard-issue salt grain, but the chap in question is usually reliable.

Ok, take this with a grain of salt everyone. I had actually called a customer service rep and talked for a good while about these price rises. All I heard was a simple 2, 3 dollar raise perhaps on some things. Not everything is going to be increased from what I was told.

The AoBR box will go up as will battleforces. I'd think its wise to assume it will be along the line of the new guard battleforces so at least a 5 dollar rise or so across the board.

The rumored 25 percent or more rise was declined. They could say nothing definite but it was supposed to be a small price increase.

Thats just what I've heard, it could all be false but then I expect to hear exacts tommorrow perhaps.

Vermin-thing
18-05-2009, 05:16
I won't mind if it's going towards the new stuff coming out in the next 18 months, but if it's just too "milk the newbs" I'm going to very displeased. To say the least, I hope for GW sake that they ARE putting more money than ever into the rules, and models. Senseless price hikes to line the CEO's pockets will just spell the end of everything GW related. :cries:

boogle
18-05-2009, 09:19
************************

Wow, that's a constuctive answer to my question, my question was 'why should we buy GW stuff at these prices?' GW should be trying their level best to make us want to continue purchasing their product, but a rise with no explanation behind it, in a economic downturn is making more than a few people less inclined to spend what little disposable income they have on Gw products, bacause they have a price threshold and this rise seems to have gone above and beyond it, so that 2.50 for a single plastic infantry figure does not now offer Value For Money, or that a figure that was 90p in April, went up to 1.20 in may and is heavily rumoured to go up to 1.50 in June, not because we are throwing our toys out of the pram and going 'GW is Teh Suxxorz'

FYI, I am actually selling off 95% of my collection to create space and cash, not because of the price rise, I won't be buying from them and have made my view known to people within GW above the front line staff, I have no intention of getting the hell out of MY hobby, but as a consumer that has spent about 20,000 over 20 years purchasing GW products, I do actually have the right to voice my concerns about a company that although it does a lot of right things (models, certain rulesets, frontline customer service, novels), it also does a lot of wrong things (pricing structure, poor staff development, lack of customer service beyond the frontline).

As to your last point unless you hiding in the tree opposite my house, you have no idea how happy I am with life

Sleazy
18-05-2009, 09:34
Boogle is 100% right. As a loyal customer he has the right to complain and expect an answer.

I am the manager for a customer services dept for a much larger company than GW (one of the largest companys in the world actually). If someone emails my dept I expect a reply to go out with 24 working hours, even if its just "we will look into this and get back to you" till we can answer fully.

If someone takes the trouble to write to use I expect a reply letter drafted within 48 hours.

This is whats called good customer service and customer retention.

I have emailed GW twice and have now written to them, next step is ringing Lenton and demanding to speak to their customer services manager. I expect the same level of service as a customer that my staff give.

boogle
18-05-2009, 09:38
Simon, that's exactly what we did in my previous company and we were a very small company, we offered a premium priced product much like GW, so customer retention and customer satisfaction are the top 2 things ANY company should be concerned with, non frontline GW employees seem to have forgotten or chosen to ignore this.

Damien 1427
18-05-2009, 20:12
Ok, take this with a grain of salt everyone. I had actually called a customer service rep and talked for a good while about these price rises. All I heard was a simple 2, 3 dollar raise perhaps on some things. Not everything is going to be increased from what I was told.

Indeed, I was misinformed, judging by the latest topic. And you can bet I'm rather glad that I was misinformed.

t-tauri
18-05-2009, 20:34
Let's keep it civil please. Keep inside the posting guidelines.

Lucifer216
18-05-2009, 23:30
I have received a very through letter from Mark Wells and while it would be remiss of me to write it out in full, the general gist is that A) we charge what we think they're worth (ie what people will pay) and B) This is so that we can spend as much money as possible improving quality. There was also the point that plastic is now seen as a better material than metal and therefore should be priced accordingly with regard to metal to plastic replacements.

Y'inglye
19-05-2009, 02:23
A) we charge what we think they're worth (ie what people will pay)

That's exactly what I wanted to say but in a less polite form before t-tauri has showed up. Case closed. Anyone who doesn't like GW price policy can either deal with it by taking it on the chin or work the way around it or quit entirely. But please don't write letters to GW - you'll make an idiot out of yourself.

Sleazy
19-05-2009, 07:59
I have issue with the charging as much for plastic bit. They can harp on about people preferring plastic all they like, fact is its a cheaper material and has a cheaper value in the publics mind.

Despite Y'inglye's ruling I'd say anyone wishing to write in or make a fuss is quite entitled to do so, I reckon the less than expected price rises announced yesterday are partly due to the uproar.

yabbadabba
19-05-2009, 08:50
No. It will, however, reduce the amount that I buy.

And thats called being sensible and not getting over emotional.