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The_Chaos_Seer
15-05-2009, 02:33
We all know that Tau are pretty indomitable against Chaos taint, but I wonder, and this largely comes from the fact that I don't know much about how daemons come to posses vehicles, couldn't daemons posses captured Tau technology, like Battlesuits?

Nicha11
15-05-2009, 02:42
In theory yes, but it would be far harder then in the imperium, where vehicles are worshipped.

Kiras of the flame
15-05-2009, 02:50
They might not be abble to possess battle suits because of the lack of a machine sprit...

But they could posses the people INSIDE the vehicle...

The_Chaos_Seer
15-05-2009, 03:55
They might not be abble to possess battle suits because of the lack of a machine sprit...

But they could posses the people INSIDE the vehicle...

Naa, unless it was a human inside the Battlesuit.

But, I guess, what's to stop some poor captured psyker from being forced into the battlesuit, then possessed?

spacewolf_sven
15-05-2009, 05:17
I'm sure chaos could manage it somehow if it wasn't for the tau "place" in 40k

Firaxin
15-05-2009, 05:26
a) Tau are not immune to possession or chaotic influence.
b) The Iron Men were not worshiped, but Chaos managed to corrupt them anyways.

GodofWarTx
15-05-2009, 08:24
They might not be abble to possess battle suits because of the lack of a machine sprit...

But they could posses the people INSIDE the vehicle...

the whole idea of machine spirits is because without them, machines (specifically, intelligent machines) were rediculously corruptable to the powers of chaos without a soul. Hence the use of servitors. Just human enough to contain a soul, however wretched it may be.


Humanity learned a hard hard lesson with the Iron Men.


Basically, the Tau are playing ignorantly with fire that will someday burn them.

Balance-keeper
15-05-2009, 08:40
the whole idea of machine spirits is because without them, machines (specifically, intelligent machines) were rediculously corruptable to the powers of chaos without a soul. Hence the use of servitors. Just human enough to contain a soul, however wretched it may be.


Humanity learned a hard hard lesson with the Iron Men.


Basically, the Tau are playing ignorantly with fire that will someday burn them.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, the tau are much better with tech than the imperium and could probs avoid an insident like iron men... ....

Tau are hard to be possesed by chaos due to their strange phyicology... its almost impossible..but not..

So it stands to reason that chaos Have the same trouble with their vehicles,...


Besides i thought vehicles that have been posessed had to have a spirt with in to corrupt (as says in the chaos : codex), and tau vehicles dont but instead they are pure technology and in that respect maybe impossible to posess.

psyduck86
15-05-2009, 08:48
Nope, machine spirits are not needed. I'm pretty sure stuff like the defiler or the brass scorpion have daemons summoned into them from the very beginning.

So yes, Tau tech could very easily be corrupted by Chaos. It's just that Chaos probably sees no point in doing so. ('pretty much cause everything possessed drops in BS.. :) )

Fixer
15-05-2009, 09:04
It's a misconception that the Tau are not vulnerable to Chaos.

Their warp presence is simply that much lower than a human or similar intelligent creature. They essentially have the soul power of a squirrel. It's not that the Tau are immune but rather instead that they're largely unaware of the Warp's influence. This may make them more resilient to the whispers of daemons in their ear but any physical change or raw exposure to the warp is going to screw them on a physical level as much as anything else.

Tau actually got pretty disturbed about what happened to the people they left behind on Medusa V.

This is one of those rare cases of the Tabletop matching the game background. Tau armies have no protection whatsoever against Psychic powers.

NightrawenII
15-05-2009, 09:10
The whole idea of Machine Spirit is metaforical. The MS is something similar to AI, but incapable of independent thinking.

Remember someone Dread Claws??
DC were drop pods with advanced MS used in the Great Crusade and Heresy. They were somewhat corrupted by Chaos.

Tau are not immune to possession or chaotic influence, nor too strange physiology for Chaos. Eldar have different physiology as well and they are corruptible.

The reason, why Chaos have no interest in Tau, is because they have very small or nearly non existent presence in Warp. Its similar to look on table and seeing big juicy steak and bottle of pea-mush. What would you prefer??

genestealer_baldric
15-05-2009, 09:19
nids are also not worshiped but they have also been corrupted, so it may not be likey but it is possible. i like the idea of a posessed manta :D

Nero
15-05-2009, 10:10
The soul is a hole into the warp, through which unlimited power (and daemons) can enter the materium. The larger the soul, the larger the hole... to use a bad analogy (and equally bad pun). The size of the hole seems to be mutable too, getting larger during a daemonic incursion or chaos ritual.

A powerful psyker has a large 'hole' into the warp through which he can pull power. A hole so big that entire daemons can fit through it, possessing the psyker.

A regular human has a smaller hole, which a daemon can't fit through unless the hole has been enlargened by some chaos ritual or the like. They can whisper through it though, to tempt the hapless human.

A Tau has a pin-prick of a hole. Can a daemon whisper through it? Apparently not. They certainly can't fit through it. Perhaps it could be made big enough via ritual for a daemon to at least whisper through?

Possessed vehicles just appear to be vehicles that have had daemons trapped inside. The descriptions for Defilers commonly mention that they're covered in seals and scripture to keep the daemon within. I don't think the vehicle itself has a soul, that's just the Ad Mech being religious zealots with a hard-on for hardware.

Now, let the 'hole' euphamisms commence!

MagrukWikkid
15-05-2009, 14:39
Dunno if I 'holey' agree with you Nero ;)

Mr_Rose
15-05-2009, 15:26
Dunno if I 'holey' agree with you Nero ;)
Aieee! That's not a euphemism! That's a Pun! You've doomed us all!

GodofWarTx
15-05-2009, 17:06
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, the tau are much better with tech than the imperium and could probs avoid an insident like iron men... ....

Tau are hard to be possesed by chaos due to their strange phyicology... its almost impossible..but not..

So it stands to reason that chaos Have the same trouble with their vehicles,...


Besides i thought vehicles that have been posessed had to have a spirt with in to corrupt (as says in the chaos : codex), and tau vehicles dont but instead they are pure technology and in that respect maybe impossible to posess.

The tau are pretty ignorant to the warp. All their technology wont do they much good when they dont know how to protect it from the warp. Even the eldar use souls (soulstones) to protect their machines from the warp.

Firaxin
15-05-2009, 17:25
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, the tau are much better with tech than the imperium and could probs avoid an insident like iron men...
The Iron Men were built during the DAoT, when Mankind was so far ahead of the Tau's technology level that they rivaled the Eldar and perhaps even the Necrons.


Tau are hard to be possesed by chaos due to their strange phyicology... its almost impossible..but not..

So it stands to reason that chaos Have the same trouble with their vehicles,...
:wtf:
WHY?

If Chimpanzees evolve into pan sapiens, or dolphins evolve into delphinus sapiens, and they build a fork, or a car, or even a plane, why are those devices fundamentally different than human built ones? How the heck does a race's physiology impact, say, the steel used to build a naval battleship?

Keichi246
15-05-2009, 17:48
Nah.

The Tau just have good Antivirus programs and repair techs. :D

I have a funny vision...

Fire Warrior Crew: "Our Devifish is acting a little weird, can you take a look at it?"
Demon Possesed Devilfish: "I will consume your soul!"
Earth Caste Mechanic : "*sigh!* Those darn hackers!" Runs Greater Good Antivirus 40k.
Demon Possesed Devilfish: "Er?"
Earth Caste Mechanic: "ooh! a Tough one, eh? Ah well - those AIs can get a little frisky. Still - it's not like we don't have spares." Pulls AI module and replaces it. Tosses Demon possesed AI module into the scrap bin.
Freshly Non-Possessed Devilfish: " How may I serve you today, master!"
Possessed AI module that is utterly unable to influence the outsode world: "I'll consume your soul, as soon as I can get a body!"

~~~
The vast majority of the information we have seen about demon possesed vehicles is that they are either intentionally prepared for possession - or have had a long contamination to Chaotic forces.

I can't think of a single fluff source that has had a "quick" demonic possesion of a vehicle.

The Tau: 1) don't seem to be fighting a lot of Chaos right now, and 2) DO seem to do a lot of maintenance on their vehicles. So the chances of their vehicles getting possesed seem pretty low to me...

Awilla the Hun
15-05-2009, 17:49
Here's how I see it.

The Machine Spirit is not real. (As in, the Chaos Gods and Emperor are really up there in the Warp, somewhere.) The Adeptus Mechanicus worship their machines because they don't quite know how it works, and everything in the Imperium must have a soul, ergo machines "do" without really having one. (Although they do know very well how to make and use them.)

Tau tech, therefore, can be posessed as easily as any Leman Russ can be. As can Tau people, albiet the daemons just don't want to as much. Just because the Leman Russ has everything from a steam engine to nuclear power, whilst a Hammerhead has a Plasma Reactor, it doesn't make them any less vulnerable to chaotic influence.

It would seem that Balance-Keeper likes his Tau quite a bit and, much like such creatures, spells poorly and needlessly adds letters to his words.

And, to keep the hole thing going: the daemons who do like the Tau have a tiny thing to insert into the hole, and are therefore probably not well regarded.

EDIT: And which race doesn't do a lot of maintenance on their vehicles? The Imperium has a temple load of mechanics, the Eldar have all their bonesingers, Ork Mekboys don't like to see their precious machines get beaten up, the Necrons... well, their Monoliths don't ever get shot down, but if they were, I'm sure their Tomb Spyders could do something about it in the long run.

Keichi246
15-05-2009, 19:14
Here's how I see it.

The Machine Spirit is not real. (As in, the Chaos Gods and Emperor are really up there in the Warp, somewhere.) The Adeptus Mechanicus worship their machines because they don't quite know how it works, and everything in the Imperium must have a soul, ergo machines "do" without really having one. (Although they do know very well how to make and use them.)

Tau tech, therefore, can be posessed as easily as any Leman Russ can be. As can Tau people, albiet the daemons just don't want to as much. Just because the Leman Russ has everything from a steam engine to nuclear power, whilst a Hammerhead has a Plasma Reactor, it doesn't make them any less vulnerable to chaotic influence.

It would seem that Balance-Keeper likes his Tau quite a bit and, much like such creatures, spells poorly and needlessly adds letters to his words.

And, to keep the hole thing going: the daemons who do like the Tau have a tiny thing to insert into the hole, and are therefore probably not well regarded.

EDIT: And which race doesn't do a lot of maintenance on their vehicles? The Imperium has a temple load of mechanics, the Eldar have all their bonesingers, Ork Mekboys don't like to see their precious machines get beaten up, the Necrons... well, their Monoliths don't ever get shot down, but if they were, I'm sure their Tomb Spyders could do something about it in the long run.

Who says the machine spirits AREN'T real though?

I'll remind you of that old quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." or in this case - religion.

Maybe a chunk of what the Adeptus Mechanicus says *does* work - but they are INTENTIONALLY shrouding it in religious overtones to obfuscate the truth from the plebes in the Imperium.

After all:
"Dip your hands in the holy unguent to purify your body and your spirit. Upon the count of three, touch the ordained spot on the doorframe, and upon another count of three, chant the litany of access. Failure to properly worship the Omnisiah may cause the wrath of the Omnissiah to descend upon you."

is functionally the same as:
"Wash your hands in the cleaning agent so the scanner will get a good reading. Then place your hand on the palmprint reader, wait 3 seconds, and state the access code for the voiceprint recognition software. If the system fails to identify you - you will be shredded by the security guns swinging down behind you."

Remember - as far as the Imperials are concerned: "Knowledge is power. Hide it well."

Honestly - I regard most of the machine spirits as really "dumb" monotasked AIs - with the term "machine spirit" used to confuse the yokels initially, and as tradition later. I mean - the STCs of the dark age of technology were designed to basically build *incredibly* durable equipment out of an astonishingly wide variety of materials.

What's to say that part of the design ISN'T a nanoscale circuitry net designed to monitor the hardware built right into the matrix of the device. Such a circuitry net could easily house a monitoring program (or AI) that could constantly be running diagnostics on the hardware to indicate what is wrong and possible fixes. Such a design is easily within the realm of possibilty of the DAoT. Suppose the diagnostic output is rendered on specialized hardware - so that you would have to "commune with the machine spirit" to actually read the the AI is saying.

Changes to the hardware, repainting it - etc could all "upset" the machine spirit because they are changing parameters beyond what it is looking for. That "upset" may be simply the AI reporting on interfaces that the Adeptus Mechanicus has access to that things are out of whack.

~~~~
And as far as maintenance goes - well - have you seen any cases of possessed machines *outside* of Imperial/Chaos gear? ;)

Only one I can think of is the Tyranid hiveship that was used as a titan transport in "Storn of Iron". Which is a very odd one-off case - and we've never had doubts that Chaos could infect/posses living material.

Your comment does raise a point though.

Is there ANY fluff evidence out there of Demon possessed vehicles that have *not* been purpose built by Chaos (ala the demon engines) or based off an STC chassis? I can't think of any - but I don't claim to be fluff god.

My computer virus joke may be more apt than I thought. STC technology may be Windows 40k - very common and easy to subborn. Other races gear doesn't get demon possessed because the demons don't know how to... ;)

Firaxin
15-05-2009, 20:12
It doesn't have to be a vehicle. It could easily be a pulse gun.

The alien, possessed sword Fulgrim finds is a quick example off the top of my head.