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View Full Version : Heresy: what was in use at the turn of?



angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 18:27
in the terms of background at the turn of the heresy what in the space marine codex couldnt be used due to the STC templates not being found until after?

i ask this as i have a turn of the heresy army currently underway, using the space marine book.

i can only remember a handful of stuff and ive been playing years so helkp would be much appreciated, thanks guys :D

Inquisitor Engel
20-05-2009, 18:34
No Land Raider Crusader or Redeemers, although many, many more Land Raiders were in use.

Land Speeders would probably be 0-1. No Land Speeder Storm.

Vindicators also, IIRC were a post-Heresy invention, the ones in possession of the Iron Warriors are taken later.

NightrawenII
20-05-2009, 20:39
No Predator Anihilator.

Maidel
20-05-2009, 20:49
Id argue that land speeders and jet bikes would be much MORE common, not less.

No razorbacks tho.

Askari
20-05-2009, 20:50
No Storm Bolters, Assault Cannons. Portable Plasma Cannons? (not sure)

No Librarians.

Will think of more =)

Damien 1427
20-05-2009, 22:13
Vindicators also, IIRC were a post-Heresy invention, the ones in possession of the Iron Warriors are taken later.

I was under the impression Vindicators were a pre-Heresy invention, as Traitor Legion Vindies were used in the Siege of the Imperial Palace.

Maidel
20-05-2009, 22:16
No Librarians.


Depends on which side you were on. Imperial, no librarians, chaos - well they werent taking orders anymore.

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 22:56
cheers guys this has been very helpful :D

Gimp
20-05-2009, 23:02
Yeah as said above no lascannon preds. You could field landspeeders as jetbikes

Gimp
20-05-2009, 23:04
Oh by the way which legion are you wanting to play with because that makes a big difference.

For example.

Night Lords = Assualt Marines

Death Guard = No Assualt Marines

Maidel
20-05-2009, 23:06
Oh by the way which legion are you wanting to play with because that makes a big difference.

For example.

Night Lords = Assualt Marines

Death Guard = No Assualt Marines

??

Where did it say that death guard didnt have any assault marines?

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 23:07
strangely enough my iron warriors.... using drop pod assault so going for the dreads and forge father combo... just trying to kit out the dreads and troops accordingly, but also trying to figure out what i can use to bump points up

Mannimarco
20-05-2009, 23:07
death guard did have assault marines, theres a pic in the horus heresy colected visions book of a death guard assault squad with pistols and chainswords

although i dont know how accurate that book is as we have been told chain axes were the pre heresy close combat weapon of choice but most pics have chain swords


damn im slow tonight, ninjad twice!

Maidel
20-05-2009, 23:10
strangely enough my iron warriors.... using drop pod assault so going for the dreads and forge father combo... just trying to kit out the dreads and troops accordingly, but also trying to figure out what i can use to bump points up

Iron warriors.

TANKS!

OR more big guns.

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 23:14
i'm limmited with my tanks tbh, the only things i figure i can use are rhino's and landraiders.... which leaves me a little short as no one seems to be sure when vindicators came in

Mannimarco
20-05-2009, 23:16
good call, im inclined to go with pre heresy or very very early in the heresy itself, read that somwhere but damned if i can remember where

Maidel
20-05-2009, 23:16
i'm limmited with my tanks tbh, the only things i figure i can use are rhino's and landraiders.... which leaves me a little short as no one seems to be sure when vindicators came in

You can definately have vindicators:


The first Vindicator tanks were converted from Rhino APCs during the subjugation of Rostern I, early in the Horus Heresy, and were quickly adopted by both sides. During the conquest of the fortress-city Stahlenburg, the Ultramarines Legion suffered grievous casualties battling through the cramped streets. Roboute Guilliman ordered that a number of the Ultramarines Legion's Rhinos should be fitted with Thunderer cannons in order to demolish the fortified buildings one at a time, denying the traitors sanctuary. Vindicator tanks (later fitted with Demolisher cannons) have been a mainstay of most Space Marine chapters ever since.

Vindicators were used extensively by rebel Legions during the Horus Heresy during the Siege of the Imperial Palace.

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 23:17
ah cheers maidel...

ok so landspeeders? yay or nay? what pattern? what armament?

Maidel
20-05-2009, 23:19
Seeing as 'anti-grav' was much more common the earlier you go, then chances are there were many more landspeeders back then.

Edit - No you cant - they were re-discovered M31. Obviously they were very common EARLIER...


Edit Edit - but you can have jetbikes:


Imperial jetbikes were common among the Space Marine Legions during the Great Crusade and the Heresy. They were known as the Mk14 Bullock Jet Cycle and were equipped with a targeter and twin forward-firing bolters. They could seat a single rider.

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 23:23
ok that sucks :S that means i have to get samael's bike and chop it up alot :S

Maidel
20-05-2009, 23:24
ok that sucks :S that means i have to get samael's bike and chop it up alot :S

OR - get a landspeeder and take out a crew member - use them as landspeeders, but say they are jetbikes...

angelusmortis1384
20-05-2009, 23:32
oh are sterngaurd and vangaurd squads viable for turn of the heresy?

MajorWesJanson
21-05-2009, 00:00
Sure, they are just a doctrinal split of veterans. A couple of specialist rounds are a no-go though.

angelusmortis1384
21-05-2009, 00:03
:angel: could always attribute them to the powers of chaos lols :angel:

Inquisitor Engel
21-05-2009, 00:35
Id argue that land speeders and jet bikes would be much MORE common, not less.

No razorbacks tho.

In "Scions of the Storm," the Word Bearers deploy Land Speeders and it's remarked that they're brand new and strange to the captain in question. This was the first incursion of Lorgar after he'd been converted by Kor-Phaeron.

angelusmortis1384
21-05-2009, 00:41
to be fair though black library gets it wrong on many occasions....

FashaTheDog
21-05-2009, 01:03
Multi-Meltas, Assault Cannons, and Plasma Cannons were all brand new so were either very rare or not in use. Terminator Armor was new and some Legions did not field as many. Loyalist Legions had the Edict of Nikea banning Librarians, while most Traitors killed most of their Chaplains (Word Bearers being something of an exception). Venerable Dreadnoughts really would not be around as too few Marines would have been interred long enough.

Many of the rare stuff became more common in the Heresy and the Vindicator was introduced.

As for Landspeeders, there are numerous images of pre-Heresy Landspeeders in the artwork. Mat Ward wrote in the Marine Codex that Land Speeders were post-Heresy, yet there are other sources stating they were used in the Heresy such as the Horus Heresy art books and Scions of the Storm.

Leftenant Gashrog
21-05-2009, 21:18
According to Space Marine 1st edition (wherein a pair of recon Land Speeders were mandatory for every 3 companies) the Heresy era Astartes Land Speeder armament was Multi-Melta and Meltagun.

angelusmortis1384
21-05-2009, 22:18
most helpful on the landspeeder front thanks again guys :D

SolidShooterMan
22-05-2009, 22:27
jump packs werent as common as they are now (in the 41st millenium) the world eaters were the primary users of jump packs, death guard as far as i know never utilised them and other legions may have but not to as great an extent as the world eaters

Fulgrim's Gimp
22-05-2009, 23:03
You can also have assault cannons. (See Baal Pred info). They were new and hard to maintain (ceramic barrells) which couldn't be maintained by Chaos.

Maidel
23-05-2009, 11:00
You can also have assault cannons. (See Baal Pred info). They were new and hard to maintain (ceramic barrells) which couldn't be maintained by Chaos.

No you cant unless you are blood angels, in which case, you can only have vehicle portable assault cannons, not man portable cannons:

Baal pred:

The STC template for the Baal's construction was recovered during the early Great Crusade. Instead of giving to the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Blood Angels kept it, returning it to Baal, where it remains to this day, protected in stasis as a relic of the Chapter.

Termintator assault cannon:

The weapon was developed after the Horus Heresy as a replacement for the autocannon. Introduced during the mark 3a phase of Terminator armour development, this weapon is the standard alternative to the heavy flamer as a squad's special weapon. Its design has changed little, retaining the distinctively long, cylindrical, rotating barrels.

Urath
23-05-2009, 13:22
Combi-bolters were in use instead of storm-bolters. They are twin linked weapons, rather than a single weapon with two barrels.

Basically storm-bolters, but arugably less efficient.

Ddraiglais
23-05-2009, 22:30
IIRC, whirlwinds are definately out.

BoLS has HH era codices/rules. They did an entire campaign.

angelusmortis1384
24-05-2009, 00:51
as chaos had dreadclaw drop pods in its service, does that mean it's acceptable to use regular drop pods for a turn of the heresy list?

FashaTheDog
24-05-2009, 01:11
Indeed. There are many cases of drop pods in use. You could even use Dreadclaws if you want to run an army based around their inception to the fleets, prior to being jettisoned. To do so, you would need to run Chaos or Apocalypse.

Speaking of which, Baneblades that are part of a Legion are called Fellblades and may or may not be crewed by Marines, but they do have BS4. BoLS has an excellent datasheet for them. Thunderhawks were brand new, as the Stormbird was the workhorse of the time.

The_Tempest
24-05-2009, 02:10
Autocannons were much more common on both sides. It was not uncommon to have squads of autocannon Devastators.

Ddraiglais has an excellent point; the Bols campaign book is a great resource.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/09/warhammer-30000-age-of-heresy-v2.html