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ArtificerArmour
23-05-2009, 14:00
Do we think it's safe to assume Tau battlesuits are capable of operation in a vacuum?

Mr_Rose
23-05-2009, 14:02
They probably need special mods to work in a total vacuum (extra oxidiser tanks for the jets would be a good start) but I would not be the least bit surprised that they are gas-tight under terrestrial atmospheric conditions.

Hellebore
23-05-2009, 14:05
Most armour in 40k can operate in a vacuum. The battlesuit appears as an airtight machine, so I don't see why not. No more than a dreadnought for example.

It's even possible that storm troopers could operate in vacuums for short amounts of time. It depends on how air tight the armour is.

Hellebore

ArtificerArmour
23-05-2009, 14:09
So how about Fire warriors? I seem to remember them running round outside an Emperor class battle ship in a bizarre Tau enduced boarding action. However, these days they seem to try and use the "air bubble" on battleships, where they extend a small air pocket around the ship (re: Apocalypse Reloaded).

Hellebore
23-05-2009, 14:15
It's my opinion that anything of carapace level or more is or can be airtight. There are certain exceptions to this, eldar guardians clearly wear fully enclosed suits.

In 2nd ed they indicated the relative airtightedness of the different armours with regards to virus bombs etc. Although the armours of some races and/or units have changed since then (storm troopers didn't wear carapace back then for example).

Hellebore

Mr_Rose
23-05-2009, 14:26
Interesting Fun Fact: Human skin is actually more than sufficient vacuum protection with the minor exceptions of the joints where the skin is too elastic to prevent blood pooling: Our primary weakness in space is asphyxiation and freezing of the eyes, so a completely sealed full-face helmet with an oxygen supply would at least allow you to remain conscious long enough for rescue, even if you wouldn't be very happy about it.

Hell, I think even one of the FW books says that the standard Cadian pattern battledress can be sealed completely with the addition of the gas-mask fitting for the helmet and some gloves, though that was more for NBC warfare scenarios than vacuum survival; if push came to shove (out of an airlock, say) though, you'd probably be OK for a while wearing just that.

Inquisitor Engel
23-05-2009, 14:40
Funnily enough, they're not.

The XV-1, 2 and 8 class suits are not airtight, though they are water tight in most situations.

There's a special class of suit (7 or 6, can't recall right now) that is specifically designed for space missions.

Hellebore
23-05-2009, 14:47
Interesting Fun Fact: Human skin is actually more than sufficient vacuum protection with the minor exceptions of the joints where the skin is too elastic to prevent blood pooling: Our primary weakness in space is asphyxiation and freezing of the eyes, so a completely sealed full-face helmet with an oxygen supply would at least allow you to remain conscious long enough for rescue, even if you wouldn't be very happy about it.


Um are you sure about that? Decompression causes all sorts of problems, like nitrogen bubbles appearing in your blood, your lungs rupturing.

Our bodies maintain 1 atmosphere of pressure inside to the external pressure of 1 atmosphere. Removing the external pressure means all the liquids and gases in our bodies would attempt to equilibrate by moving outside of us.

Our skin might be strong enough to CONTAIN our gases and liquids, but I don't think it'd stop them rupturing blood vessels and bursting cells.

Hellebore

ArtificerArmour
23-05-2009, 15:22
Funnily enough, they're not.

The XV-1, 2 and 8 class suits are not airtight, though they are water tight in most situations.

There's a special class of suit (7 or 6, can't recall right now) that is specifically designed for space missions.


Is there a source for this information, such as IA3 or the Tau codex?

Sojourner
23-05-2009, 16:21
Funnily enough, they're not.

The XV-1, 2 and 8 class suits are not airtight, though they are water tight in most situations.

There's a special class of suit (7 or 6, can't recall right now) that is specifically designed for space missions.

Directly contradicts the fluff I remember from one old WD, where a minor Cadre leader believes he's killed Slaanesh through a case of mistaken identity. He's baffled that the hallucinogenic musk of slaaneshi space marines seems to be penetrating his airtight battlesuit.

bobbles
23-05-2009, 17:10
Directly contradicts the fluff I remember from one old WD, where a minor Cadre leader believes he's killed Slaanesh through a case of mistaken identity. He's baffled that the hallucinogenic musk of slaaneshi space marines seems to be penetrating his airtight battlesuit.

Put it down to magic , and assume it ignored the armour

DoombringerATT
23-05-2009, 18:33
Yes, Battlesuits are airtight, and Fire Warrior armor offers limited vacuum-capable operation provided the Tau wear CBRN boots over their hooves.

The only reason a specific space-capable version exists is because normal Battlesuits run on pretty standard jet technology, requiring oxygen flow into those big intakes on the shoulders to mix with fuel and combust, providing thrust.

Unlike the Tau's space-capable aircraft (i.e. Orca, Manta, Barracuda), which probably have some kind of internal storage of a high-performance oxidizer or even some kind of completely alternative propulsion source for operations in vacuum, a Battlesuit's small size probably means it doesn't, thus requiring a version of Battlesuit with an engine designed for EVA operations in ship-to-ship combat, as displayed in Rogue Star and Star of Damocles.

SonofUltramar
23-05-2009, 18:53
The way I've always thought of it is that the Earth Caste would need some sort of suit to do an EVA in order to repair spacecraft. This would allow the Earth Caste to use the same technology if needed to make some sort of battlesuit for space combat if needed.

As for the current battlesuits I would agree that they are airtight purely for the fact that if some sort of chemical or biological weapon was used they would have no way of protecting themselves if it wasn't already built in.

Nakor
23-05-2009, 21:52
airtight = protection from fire (obviously being set on fire still isnt good)
orks = love burnas.

Orks + Burnas = Crisis suits should be air tight.

MetalGecko23
23-05-2009, 21:57
Well I can offer just look at them. If a space marine is sealed battlesuits sure the hell are. The XV-8's and up are little more than dreadnaughts (not a dead tau in it but a wired in tau).

Desert Rain
23-05-2009, 22:04
I think it's safe to asume that battlesuits are oreationable in vacuum, maybe with some extra ad-ons.

Fry Guy
23-05-2009, 22:19
How much of their equipment works in/underwater?

Poseidal
23-05-2009, 22:27
I would have thought their original purpose was to fight in vacuums and space.

The Jet packs seem to point towards this too.

Firaxin
23-05-2009, 23:11
The Jet packs seem to point towards this too.
No they don't, because they have intake valves. And there's no air in space.

Fire warrior carapace armor isn't naturally air tight either, otherwise there would be no need for devilfish to be airtight.

Poseidal
23-05-2009, 23:30
No they don't, because they have intake valves. And there's no air in space.



Hmm, I haven't had a closer look but you're probably right.

Or they could just be for show.

spacewolf_sven
23-05-2009, 23:57
I read somewhere that some story mentioned the smell of nurgle(etc) permeating crisis suit armour which apparently contradicted fluff the siuts are airtight

Firaxin
24-05-2009, 00:42
Or they could just be for show.
Yeah, that's possible.

Like the ejection ports on bolters (which fire caseless ammunition)... :rolleyes:

Mr Zephy
24-05-2009, 03:40
No they don't, because they have intake valves. And there's no air in space.

Fire warrior carapace armor isn't naturally air tight either, otherwise there would be no need for devilfish to be airtight.

Presumably fire warriors would want to take off their helmets when within their transport.

Col. Tartleton
24-05-2009, 04:07
They're airtight.

Battlesuits deploy from crazy high altitudes via mantas all the time. Redundancy is usually a good idea in dangerous conditions. Sure you can make the pilots gear inside airtight, but you may as well pressurize the cabin of the suit.

Plus you've got to deal with bio weapons and all kinds of crap, so again its a good idea to be airtight.

And you've got near vacuum space conditions (space isn't a vacuum) for boarding missions which is what XVs specialize in (what else do the Tau have to effectively board a ship) and the possibility of fighting underwater or landing in water. I know for a fact they can fight in water because in there was a mention of them deep striking out of a lake and slaughtering the [expletive] out of the enemy.

So without a doubt, Tau battlesuits are airtight.

As to the intakes on the jets? Coolant I imagine. In space you have the void to keep the engines cool, and underwater you're fine, but flying in atmosphere you're gonna need some airflow to keep from overheating the thrusters. Plus if the Tau have learned anything from their long war against the Orks its that looking cool is really all that matters in modern combat. Air ducts are cool, and they may even make the suits scream as they move through the air like a stuka dive bomber.

In fact I'm almost certain the Tau would pull something like that. They are devious little guppies.

Decius
24-05-2009, 04:18
I read somewhere that some story mentioned the smell of nurgle(etc) permeating crisis suit armour which apparently contradicted fluff the siuts are airtight

I would assume the nurgley stench to be incorporeal in some way. The Tau thinks he was smelling the stench but, thanks to the warp, it was in his mind. If Tau weren't psychically blunt, the "smell" might have killed him. But I haven't read the story so I don't really know for sure.

Mr_Rose
24-05-2009, 09:23
As to the intakes on the jets? Coolant I imagine. In space you have the void to keep the engines coolRubbish. Hard vacuum is one of the best insulators known to man; if it weren't, vacuum thermos flasks would be the opposite of useful. One of the biggest problems the Apollo missions had was keeping the astronauts cool in those huge suits.

Nakor
24-05-2009, 12:38
Hard vacuum is one of the best insulators


oooo i didnt think of that:eyebrows:. nice catch:

Mr Zephy
24-05-2009, 12:40
That said, your hot cup of tea will cool down very quickly in space.

Poseidal
24-05-2009, 12:42
That said, your hot cup of tea will cool down very quickly in space.

Actually, it'll boil away in very little time at all.

Cythus
24-05-2009, 15:15
yes but isn't that due to the lack of pressure not the temperature???

Sojourner
24-05-2009, 16:10
yes but isn't that due to the lack of pressure not the temperature???

Sort of both. Boiling point is dependent on pressure. Boiling causes a fluid to lose heat - think about what happens with a pan on a stove - you're putting more heat in but it isn't getting any hotter, it remains at a steady 100C. That's because the hottest fraction of molecules is continuously being released and the statistical reshuffling shares out the remaining thermal energy between the remaining molecules. What I'm trying to get across is that the two things are interrelated.

Hellebore
24-05-2009, 16:35
As I understand it, the only way for something to lose heat in space is via IR radiation emitted from it. Without an atmosphere of molecules to draw heat away via conduction, a human body will only lose heat in a vacuum from IR radiation being naturally emitted. however this is a really slow process.


Mr Rose is correct about humans not bursting in vacuum, I have discovered. The reason apparently is that under the amount of pressure the human blood stream is under, the boiling point of blood is higher than the core body temperature. Considering that temperatures only a few Degrees higher than normal will kill a human that's not going to be a problem.

apparently the biggest problem is the original decompression. If it is sudden, or explosive and you've got a closed lung full of air you can rupture your alveolae and damage your lungs. If the air is unimpeded then there won't be any problem.

A human will die of anoxia before they will die of hypothermia in space.

So much for frozen bodies or exploding corpses. If however you were to fall onto the dark side of an asteroid without a suit and touched the surface conduction would suck heat out of you and freeze your hand as the matter of the asteroid would be at close to absolute zero.

Hellebore

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
24-05-2009, 17:47
Rogue Trader and Rogue Star mention Crisis Suits attempting to assault Imperial ships through space.

Mr Zephy
24-05-2009, 19:48
As I understand it, the only way for something to lose heat in space is via IR radiation emitted from it. Without an atmosphere of molecules to draw heat away via conduction, a human body will only lose heat in a vacuum from IR radiation being naturally emitted. however this is a really slow process.

That's the point of the cup of tea example. The person will be losing heat through sweat boiling from their pores. This still wouldn't kill them before the anoxia, but it should be included.

The relevance to suits is that you can vent coolant to compensate for the heat of firing weapons and moving around and so forth.

Inquisitor Engel
24-05-2009, 19:51
Is there a source for this information, such as IA3 or the Tau codex?

Not that's been published. ;)

The short description of the XV22 gives mention to space-specific battlesuits though, which for me is indication that while a standard battlesuit might be sealed enough to operate in space for a couple of minutes or even underwater, it's not entirely airtight.

For example, a bell-diving suit is supposedly airtight, yet it would still fail in space. Same thing for Crisis Suits.


Directly contradicts the fluff I remember from one old WD, where a minor Cadre leader believes he's killed Slaanesh through a case of mistaken identity. He's baffled that the hallucinogenic musk of slaaneshi space marines seems to be penetrating his airtight battlesuit.

Because 40k background has never contradicted itself. Ever. ;)

Also, there's no visible place on a Crisis suit for oxygen supplies to be stored (at least sizable amounts) so I assume such a reference is due to the fact that battlesuits have filtration systems in them.


Rogue Trader and Rogue Star mention Crisis Suits attempting to assault Imperial ships through space.

Again, XVn6 or XVn7 probably (n=mass class number) were the most likely participants, Crisis Suits is a general, catch-all term, it doesn't necessarily refer to XV8 suits, though it certainly doesn't refer to XV88 or XV15, 25 or 22, as those have other purposes and XV6 or XV7 are general use that they'd probably fall under "Crisis" category.

Horus38
25-05-2009, 05:25
To the OP: there was a short story in a WD awhile back detailing a tau commander in his battle suit facing a demon of Slaanesh. He said he was amazed that despite his suit being air tight he still smelled a scented musk.

So for your question: yes, they're air tight.

Sojourner
25-05-2009, 12:16
To the OP: there was a short story in a WD awhile back detailing a tau commander in his battle suit facing a demon of Slaanesh. He said he was amazed that despite his suit being air tight he still smelled a scented musk.

Can anybody hear me? Is this thing even on?