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View Full Version : Scouts =/= Marines?



Firaxin
24-05-2009, 10:10
Scouts are not technically marines, as they do not yet have the black carapace (IIRC).

Chapters are supposed to have ~1000 marines.

Does this mean that hypothetically, a chapter could have 1000 marines, 100,000,000,000,000(etc you get the idea) scouts, and still be chums with the Inquisition as long as they were advancing their scouts veeeeeeeeeery slowly?

Or do scouts count as full space marines for the purpose of that particular rule?

DarkPrince
24-05-2009, 10:19
Well, i take it has they have 1000 men, including Techmarines, scouts, servitors etc. The only exception is vechile drivers

Petay1985
24-05-2009, 10:31
i believe the 1000 figure is given as a rought guide. All codex chapters work around the basis of 10 companies at 100men each,
Captains, Chaplains, command squads, tech marines, librarians, chapter master, honour guard, servitors, etc... (you get the idea) are all above and around this figure.
i think that is is accepted that vehical drivers are extra also.

however once taken into account that they are constantly at war i would image that most chapters man count rises and falls below the chapters standard 1000men + support roles.

Hood
24-05-2009, 11:33
Black Templar: Why do you ask....? Are you with the Inquisition?! *Gouch - Gouch* :eyebrows:

MajorWesJanson
24-05-2009, 11:38
If the support and command branches are exempt from the 1000 limitation, I can see interesting ways to circumvent size restrictions. Chaplain led squads made up of "chaplain inductees" Tech Marines supported by squads of Tech Adept tactical marines. Librarian battle squads.

borithan
24-05-2009, 11:38
i believe the 1000 figure is given as a rought guide. All codex chapters work around the basis of 10 companies at 100men each,Well, the first 9 companies have 100 (+ Command squad, plus Captain, plus Chaplain). The Scout company's size is indeterminate, and based purely on the need and success of recruitment. If I remember correctly, the Crimson Fists' is particularly large, as they are trying to rebuild a very badly mauled Chapter. Other Chapters might not have the same recruitment needs, or simply cannot find enough recruits to fill their needs, or be short on available gene-seed.

Basically 1000 marines is a rough guideline. At full strength it will probably number a few hundred over that (if you include scouts), but then with combat losses I wouldn't be surprised if most Chapters don't even make the 1000 marine mark, probably numbering more in the 650-750 region.

Nakor
24-05-2009, 12:25
as i understand: 1000 marines rough guideline (inc all kind of soldiers + specialists + commanders).

not nececarrily included in this number are vehicle drivers.

certainly not included are the servitors. they use them for maintainance and manufacture etc. i wouldnt be surprised if there was a 1:1 or higher marine:servitor ratio.

Deadnight
24-05-2009, 14:02
i remember the 3rd ed SM codex had a precise disposition of the ultramarines codex.

they had 87 scouts of various ranks.

Caiphas Cain
24-05-2009, 14:10
Isnt one of the 10 companys scouts?

Petay1985
24-05-2009, 15:19
Isnt one of the 10 companys scouts?


Indeed the standard codex break down is:
1st Company - Veteran Company
2nd Company - Battle Company
3rd Company - Battle Company
4thd Company - Battle Company
5th Company - Battle Company
6th Company -Tactical Reserve Company
7th Comapny - Tactical Reserve Company
8th Company - Assault Reserve Company
9th Company - Devestator Reserve Company
10th Company - Scout Company

+

Librarium, Chaplaincy, Apothecarium, Armoury, Chapter Command, Fleet

i think that is everything, please do add if you know differently

Lady Raviaries Silverkin
24-05-2009, 16:38
If I might pipe up, I think the exact wording was 'one thousand fighting marines'. If this includes scouts (who kind of fight) or not, I think it is up to the persons' interpretation. But I agree that combat losses would likely keep a chapter at below full strength, and if they are at full strength, they probably have a little bit over. Better to over-recruit and have men ready than under recruit and fall short IMHO.

I do not have my books ready else I'd find the exact page to that quote, but I'm sure that's it.

I always did wonder how far along scouts were in the 'are they a marine' thing. are they ones currently undergoing both training AND surgeries, are they pre-surgery trainees and then it is done before they become battle brothers or...?

Again, I guess it depends on the chapter (space wolves IIRC does not have a scout company. Nor does Dark Angels (I think))

Griefbringer
24-05-2009, 18:48
Does this mean that hypothetically, a chapter could have 1000 marines, 100,000,000,000,000(etc you get the idea) scouts, and still be chums with the Inquisition as long as they were advancing their scouts veeeeeeeeeery slowly?


I think that the Inquisition has no love for rules lawyers...

Inquisitor Engel
24-05-2009, 19:59
Ladies and Gentlemen -

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=291

1,512 Ultramarines at full strength. The logic isn't 100% perfect, but I'd say it's not too far off.

Lothlanathorian
24-05-2009, 23:05
My only gripe is when he called Tigurius a Chaplain lol but his logic is pretty sound.

And Space Wolf scouts aren't in their own company as they are actually full Marines. Space Wolf 'scouts' are Blood Claws. Not sure if they have a black carapace or not, but that is where their trainees go. Space Wolf companies are organized as 'Great Companies' and they are a force all their own. SW don't have support companies or any of the like. They are a very non-Codex chapter. About as divergent as it gets, really. Well, them and the Black Templars.

The_Outsider
24-05-2009, 23:18
The blood angels - who are a codex chapter - scouts are veterans, they give their new recruits power armour much like SW do.

Even still 1K marines has never been "true", but it is pretty close when referring to effective combat strength (IMO that B&C article takes one too many liberties with the numbers, but meh).

Mr Zoat
24-05-2009, 23:25
Blood Claws wear power armour. Therefore, they must have the black carapace and therefore must be full space marines. This is why 2nd edition Space Wolves had regular scouts, and why their 3rd edition lower stats don't make sense.

Lothlanathorian
24-05-2009, 23:29
Because in 3rd Edition Space Wolf Scouts were veterans and Blood Claws were their 'new guy in training' unit. That is why their lower stats made sense.

NightrawenII
25-05-2009, 13:02
As said above the 1000 strong is only myth based on 10 companies x 10squads x 10 men.
The 10th company often vary in numbers. So Chapters have more or less scouts, depending on the situation.