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View Full Version : A second coming? Possibility of the Omnissiah?



Warsurge
25-05-2009, 04:02
So we all remember that Ferrus Manus was killed at Isstvan V by Fulgrim. I have read that the HH books are non-cannon so he at this point could still be very well alive. Can you just fill me on if the HH book are absolutely 100% official cannon or not. If the books are cannon then how is it that Ferrus Manus is able to be killed in one book but is sighted in another book? Thanks in advance. If the the HH are official cannon though, GW still says he will come back even if he is dead.


Their Primarch, Ferrus Manus, is seen as a strong and unwavering warrior-god, the saviour of his people, who will return one day to lead all of Humanity from the darkness that besets it from all sides and from within. - GW

Through what means though? He was decapitated so the idea of gluing his head back on is out of the question. I was thinking maybe just maybe he could be the Omnissiah. We know that his body was taken back to Mars and since the Adeptus Mechanicus live there they could probably someway put his spirit/soul/essence inside a machine. Could there be a possibility that the reason why the Iron Hands replace their fleshy limbs for mechanical ones because they want to be more like their master/founder?


After the Heresy, when the Legions were reorganized into Chapters, the Iron Hands became recluses, attempting to find ways to make themselves even stronger so that they would be fit for serving under Manus again at the end of times. To this end they have made it a practice to make extensive use of bionic modifications, going so far that there are rumors of some battle brothers being wholly mechanical. - Lexicanum

This is all speculated and if I am wrong or there is something that may help that would be great.

Thank you for reading this,

Warsurge

Inquisitor Engel
25-05-2009, 04:21
I have read that the HH books are non-cannon

You read wrong.

Whilst technically, yes a Codex will override a BL Novel in terms of what's "more" correct, there's nothing that directly contradicts anything in the HH novels in any Codex, in fact much of it supports what's going into them. GW and BL are putting a lot of effort into the Horus Heresy series.

At a Games Day someone very important (don't recall who) said "The Horus Heresy novels are canon."

Even as far back as the IA articles it was stated that Mannus was killed on Istvaan, we just didn't know how.

Warsurge
25-05-2009, 04:46
Ah ok thank you for filling me in on that the HH books are cannon. I was not to sure if it was or not because a lot of people were saying it was and a lot were saying that it was not. I totally support the people that are writing the HH books, but was just wondering if there was a slight possibility that Ferrus Manus could be brought back some how as stated in those quotes.

Lothlanathorian
25-05-2009, 04:59
Of course, GW has also said that all of the fluff is canon, even old, out-dated and contradictory stuff.

Inquisitor Engel
25-05-2009, 05:02
Ah ok thank you for filling me in on that the HH books are cannon. I was not to sure if it was or not because a lot of people were saying it was and a lot were saying that it was not.

You'll find a lot of people saying it's not canon had either fan-written background that was contradicted by the Horus Heresy novels, or they latched onto a teeny-tiny idea presented a long time ago that was utterly destroyed by the books.

One example is the calm, collected Kharn we see in the opening trilogy or the fact that he was a member of the Legion before they found Angron. There's a few other examples too.


I totally support the people that are writing the HH books, but was just wondering if there was a slight possibility that Ferrus Manus could be brought back some how as stated in those quotes.

Nope, Fulgrim lopped his head off and threw it to Horus after the battle. Ferrus is very dead.

Warsurge
25-05-2009, 05:11
Yes I know he is dead but like could the Adeptus Mechanicus put his soul into a machine body (Possibly becoming the Omnissiah)? After all the Omnissiah is a machine god and Manus is considered to be a warrior-god so could there be a connection there? I don't know how they would do this but again it is just speculation.

ryng_sting
25-05-2009, 09:26
So we all remember that Ferrus Manus was killed at Isstvan V by Fulgrim. I have read that the HH books are non-cannon so he at this point could still be very well alive. Can you just fill me on if the HH book are absolutely 100% official cannon or not. If the books are cannon then how is it that Ferrus Manus is able to be killed in one book but is sighted in another book?

They're canon; Ferrus is as dead as Savlar. Not even a Primarch recovers from losing a head.


I was thinking maybe just maybe he could be the Omnissiah. We know that his body was taken back to Mars and since the Adeptus Mechanicus live there they could probably someway put his spirit/soul/essence inside a machine.

The Omnissiah, in AM dogma, is the earthly incarnation of the Machine God. According to Mechanicus, The Machine God is the fruit of a seed planted by the Emperor. He imprisoned the Dragon below the surface of Mars, knowing it would form the basis for the Cult Mechanicus. He ensured the doctrine of the Omnissiah was introduced so he could personally fulfill it. He needed Mars to be brought to compliance quickly and cleanly, and the Machine Cult helped him do it. It was a convenient untruth - or started as one.


Could there be a possibility that the reason why the Iron Hands replace their fleshy limbs for mechanical ones because they want to be more like their master/founder?

Possibly. But it's also possible the IH are glossing over something far deeper. Surgical addiction is a masochistic compulsion; what kind of repressed trauma could drive them the IH to it en masse - guilt, perhaps?

Darkspear
25-05-2009, 13:37
Yes it seems that the HH books are now canon. This gives me a WTF moment when I read the Mechanicium.

*Spoiler* highlight the area behind --> The Emperor captured the Dragon long time ago in the ancient(middle ages) days....WTF.

It make the 40k universe so imperium-centric

LexxBomb
25-05-2009, 15:04
I was always under the understanding that the Iron Hands replaced their hands to mimick their Primarch... and that their Primach had defeadted a C'Tan adn that he was tainted because his hands then turned into living metal.

Urath
25-05-2009, 18:54
Apparently, the silver wyrm Ferrus fought and killed was speculated to be a C'tan, namely the Void Dragon, before the Necron/C'tan fluff was fully fleshed out.

It wasn't a C'Tan, but there are strange cybernetic constructs on Medusa, but I seriously doubt they're Necrons.

Firaxin
26-05-2009, 00:59
Every Primarch, AND the Emperor, AND the dead/scattered Eldar Gods, and most everyone else important, has a myth dedicated to their reappearance at the End of Time/Rhana Dandra/etc.

Sorry, but Ferrus is nothing special, and he's certainly not the Machine God.

Mannimarco
26-05-2009, 01:18
agreed, ferrus is NOT the machine god.......the void dragon on the other hand......

Hive Mind 33
26-05-2009, 02:27
Possibly. But it's also possible the IH are glossing over something far deeper. Surgical addiction is a masochistic compulsion; what kind of repressed trauma could drive them the IH to it en masse - guilt, perhaps?

I put forth the idea they do it because of the Emperors Children. The Bionics would be the exact opposite of the pleasure seeking of the EC.

Warsurge
26-05-2009, 04:04
Ah ok. Thank you for helping me out.

Inquisitor Engel
26-05-2009, 04:39
Yes I know he is dead but like could the Adeptus Mechanicus put his soul into a machine body (Possibly becoming the Omnissiah)? After all the Omnissiah is a machine god and Manus is considered to be a warrior-god so could there be a connection there? I don't know how they would do this but again it is just speculation.

The Adeptus Mechanicus probably has trouble with the notion of a soul (even in the 40k-verse, where it's defined, however loosely) because it's not quantifiable.

If anything, they'd view the soul as the last vestiges of flesh to be gotten rid of.

It's highly unlikely Ferrus' head and body were brought back from Isstvan after the cleanup crews went by, mainly because Horus or Fulgrim likely kept it as a trophy. You don't toss back the body of a Primarch to the crows. I'd wager Horus, who at the time was still a person and not possessed/enhanced/whatever, probably felt some compassion and respect in the back of his mind.

Sword-Daemon probably would have saved it to see what Fabius could do with it...