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Hrw-Amen
27-05-2009, 20:43
Does anyone have any details / pictures of what Necrons looked like before they became Necrons, back when they were the Necrotyre. (Is that spelt right?)

I imagine them being sort of humanoid, but just wondered as not all Necron untis are, for example tomb spiders. Or did they look like something else entirely and they just took that form as it was what they were given?

I was just considering that maybe a really ancient fleet could have been sent on a mission perhaps to a small satelite galaxy of our own and the decendants, (Or even the originals if in stasis.) have just made it back to discover what has become of the rest of the race.

Idaan
27-05-2009, 20:46
It seems they looked almost precisely like humans: they shaped the C'tan necrodermis in their own image and two C'tan we've seen are pretty much human.

Rockerfella
27-05-2009, 20:46
I think its 'Necrontyr'. :O)

Erm, i'm not sure there are any pictures of them, to be honest. I suspect they were humanoid. Although.. you never know that far back in the evolution of the galaxy.

Were the old ones humanoid? Were some of them? Were they a collective race, or a collective group of other races?

I dunoo. Would be nice to know a little more about the necrontyr.

DapperAnarchist
27-05-2009, 21:03
I have suggested that Necron bodies are based on the Young Races at least as much, if not more, as their own forms. The C'Tan Necrodermis isn't "Shaped" by the Necrontyr, but by the inhabitant (Nightbringer wasn't known to be a death-obsessed lunatic prior to his embodiment, Deceiver to be a Jackal God figure, and so on, also the Deceiver has repeatedly shown the ability to shapeshift - disguising himself as Governor Takis, and as Magos Egal)

Lothlanathorian
27-05-2009, 21:45
I would think that the Necron Warriors are modeled after the Necrontyr's own skeletal frame, much in the way that T-800's are modeled after our own. Makes sense to me, really.

DapperAnarchist
27-05-2009, 21:52
Oh, its likely - but not the only possible answer...

Rockerfella
27-05-2009, 21:55
Maybe the shape of their armour is similar to the original armour worn my the necrontyr in design? Sort of a throwback?

Gethvar
27-05-2009, 21:56
It seems they looked almost precisely like humans: they shaped the C'tan necrodermis in their own image and two C'tan we've seen are pretty much human.
Actually necrons and C'tan can shapeshift, their necrodermis is more like the t1000 from terminator 2 movie but better, they pick the form they wan't to look like, we can't say they haven't look like humans but it is highly possible that their current look is more oriented to become more similar to their cattle's nightmares, to spread fear and get the psychologic advantage...
we'll probably never know how the Necrontyr look like same as the old ones...

DapperAnarchist
27-05-2009, 22:06
Now, clarification - I was under the impression that Necrodermis was ONLY the ships, warscythe, and C'Tan, not the Necrons... Am I wrong? Where is evidence either way?

malika
27-05-2009, 22:16
The Necrons were modelled after "death", what better way of representing death than running around as a skeleton?

Lothlanathorian
27-05-2009, 22:21
But whose 'Death'? Why not look like an Old One skeleton? WAIT!! Maybe they do..

malika
27-05-2009, 22:26
How would GW model death for a teenage target demographic? Simple...skeletons!

Lothlanathorian
27-05-2009, 22:40
I scoff at your rational thought processes!

Gethvar
27-05-2009, 22:41
Now, clarification - I was under the impression that Necrodermis was ONLY the ships, warscythe, and C'Tan, not the Necrons... Am I wrong? Where is evidence either way?


their cursed flesh would be replaced with living metal in imitation of their gods
I would sugest also reading a Spurrier's "Xenology" where there is a final scene with Necron Lord, aslo some more first hand informatuions about the nature of necrons...

ctsteel
27-05-2009, 22:50
How would GW model death for a teenage target demographic? Simple...skeletons!

More precisely, magic metal skeletons of future ancient death! with magic techno death weapons!

Rockerfella
27-05-2009, 22:51
More precisely, magic metal skeletons of future ancient death! with magic techno death weapons!

From the past!!!!!!

Lothlanathorian
27-05-2009, 22:52
Are they hunting their evil chicken over-lords?

Rockerfella
27-05-2009, 23:00
So i've been told....

Nezmith
28-05-2009, 04:42
The best I'd come up with, is that the Necrontyr looked like Ghoul-people.

Think of a human with a larger narrow cranium, deathly pale, (As they lived underground to escape the ravages of their sun) with scars and sores all across their body, to the point where they would look rotting.

To the Necrontyr, death was a very real fact of life, thus they likely wore covering clothing to detract from their horrific appearance, with many ornamental pieces of jewelry.

Idaan
28-05-2009, 15:46
But whose 'Death'? Why not look like an Old One skeleton? WAIT!! Maybe they do.. Because the Old Ones were a coalition, not a single race. And they didn't have emotions, only cold intellect.

pookie
28-05-2009, 16:15
wasnt it Nightbringer that was modled after Death? and this is only the Human shape for him? so i would think that the C'tan are not really a good point to start with what the Necrontyr looked like. ( but im not scholar of things C'Tan/Necron just a wild assumption)

Lothlanathorian
28-05-2009, 16:30
No, Death was modeled after Nightbringer. He scarred the races so hard with his badassery that their genetic memory or some such was imprinted with his image as Death incarnate. Seriously. Only the Krork didn't get wrecked in such a fashion.

pookie
28-05-2009, 16:38
No, Death was modeled after Nightbringer. He scarred the races so hard with his badassery that their genetic memory or some such was imprinted with his image as Death incarnate. Seriously. Only the Krork didn't get wrecked in such a fashion.

ah, so kind of the other way round to what i said then, i do that from time to time, i blame age related dementia! ( my wife blames something else!)

Lothlanathorian
28-05-2009, 16:46
Is it possible to be too curious? lol

Remember kids, whether you support nature or nurture, it's never your fault. Either your parents screwed you up, or mother nature/god(s)/the world spirit/the Emperor did.


But yes, that is how it is written in the Necron codex. And, because Nightbringer never fought the Krork, they never learned to fear Death. Hence why the Orks are so...well, Orky lol

malika
29-05-2009, 12:19
Because the Old Ones were a coalition, not a single race. And they didn't have emotions, only cold intellect.

Hmm, I see you are fusing two versions of the Old Ones together here. One is the version that they are a single race (Slann/Slaan/Old Ones) who were very much in touch with the Warp but had no emotions.

The other version is that they are a coalition of races. I doubt all the races would be emotionless, especially if the Eldar at some point were also part of that group!

Giganthrax
29-05-2009, 14:31
Old Ones were Slann, as far as I'm concerned. Imagine an ultra-powerful race of space frogmen? Frickin' awesome!

As for the necrontyr, they probably looked almost entirely like humans. The ctan, necron skeletal necrodermis bodies etc. must've all been modeled after the necrontyr (as they didn't even know about the human race, at the time). Hence, the necrontyr were rubber-forehead aliens (much like eldar are).

Poseidal
29-05-2009, 15:01
No, Death was modeled after Nightbringer. He scarred the races so hard with his badassery that their genetic memory or some such was imprinted with his image as Death incarnate. Seriously. Only the Krork didn't get wrecked in such a fashion.

Thing is, this is a bit silly as the 'visage' of death is very different for different cultures, even in one world.

Or maybe the Nightbringer should be shown as a girl in a kimono riding an oar?

Idaan
29-05-2009, 15:03
Hmm, I see you are fusing two versions of the Old Ones together here. One is the version that they are a single race (Slann/Slaan/Old Ones) who were very much in touch with the Warp but had no emotions.

The other version is that they are a coalition of races. I doubt all the races would be emotionless, especially if the Eldar at some point were also part of that group!As far as I recall there was no mention of them being one race. There is however explicit mention of them being many races (Codex: Eldar p12) and having no emotions (all across Codex: Necrons). I don't see how one excludes the other.

And why would the Eldar be part of that group if they were its creation, a biological weapon so to say.


Old Ones were Slann, as far as I'm concerned. Imagine an ultra-powerful race of space frogmen? Frickin' awesome!Some Old Ones were Slann, but not all of them. There were other races in the mix, and probably only the Slann survived the WiH as a race, though they degenerated due to Enslaver Plague.

All my interpretation though.

Lothlanathorian
29-05-2009, 19:17
Thing is, this is a bit silly as the 'visage' of death is very different for different cultures, even in one world.

Or maybe the Nightbringer should be shown as a girl in a kimono riding an oar?


Well, maybe he did :p

Gethvar
29-05-2009, 20:09
Old Ones were Slann, as far as I'm concerned. Imagine an ultra-powerful race of space frogmen? Frickin' awesome!

As for the necrontyr, they probably looked almost entirely like humans. The ctan, necron skeletal necrodermis bodies etc. must've all been modeled after the necrontyr (as they didn't even know about the human race, at the time). Hence, the necrontyr were rubber-forehead aliens (much like eldar are).
But still necrons can shape shift so after milenia of observation they could take the form that would cause a greatest fear of their cattle...

DapperAnarchist
29-05-2009, 21:36
Can ordinary Necron's shapeshift? They self-repair, but they are not made from the same Necrodermis as the C'Tan.

(My evidence? "Warscythes are made from the same living metal as the hulls of Necron ships and the C'Tan Necrodermis", Necron Codex, Wargear section. That at least strongly implies that the 'crons are not made of Necrodermis, or surely all CC attacks would be Warscythe attacks?)

Inquisitor Engel
29-05-2009, 21:38
Indeed, the Old Ones were one race.

Could one of the cabal be an Old One? Yeah.

Nexus Trimean
29-05-2009, 21:44
And here i though they were an Evoloutin of the Tomb kings.

Poseidal
29-05-2009, 21:47
Well, maybe he did :p

This is the new Nightbringer.

Idaan
29-05-2009, 22:01
Indeed, the Old Ones were one race.
Have a look:

(Webway was) created by technologies once taught to the Eldar by the ancient races known as the Old Ones
EDIT: I just realised that your "were" could just be a typo and that you might be agreeing with me. If so, sorry.


Could one of the cabal be an Old One? Yeah
I'd say that's improbable. The Cabal were "new" Old Ones as I see it, that is the races that had the most civilisational and military power around the time of Eldar Empire. Any real, undegraded Old Ones would have to be very old and immensely powerful by that time so they'd shift the balance of otherwise egalitarian council. Degraded and re-ascended descendants of the Old Ones on the other hand, why not? Though they wouldn't be any different from other races by then.

Urath
29-05-2009, 22:33
The Necrons were modelled after me in a Hallowe'en costume while the C'tan Necrodermis was modelled after my perfect naked form.

I also ate the Old Ones and the Enslavers evolved out of the ale I spilt due to Captain Micha's antics.

Lothlanathorian
29-05-2009, 23:43
Urath, sir, you amuse me.

Poseidal, you make that conversion, good sir, and I will start a cult in your honor and elevate your Warp presence to godhood.

And I always thought of the Old Ones as a single race (very much the Slaan), but a coalition would make just as much sense. The 40K equivalent of the Federation of Planets. Is there any mention in the fluff in either direction?

Inquisitor Engel
30-05-2009, 03:39
EDIT: I just realised that your "were" could just be a typo and that you might be agreeing with me. If so, sorry.

T'was indeed. Typos normally aren't my thing, but apparently they're confusing when they do occur. :p

Part of this stems from the Rogue Trader-era idea that it was the the Slann who made all the "humanoid" races in their image, or at least Eldar and humans. The original first edition WH40K Rogue Trader background specifically stated that the Slann are the Old Ones.

When Codex: Necrons came out, it put the "Old Ones" in the place of the "Old Slann" (a common moniker). I think the "races" plural was added to make it a bit like Babylon 5, but there we go.

It's possible that whilst originally one race, the Old Ones had many races that worked with them and over time became seen as one group, rather than one species.

A personal pet-"theory" of mine is that the Eldar Gods (and Gork and Mork for that matter) are ascended Old Ones, whose research and powerful psychic talents made it possible for them to transcend this reality.



I'd say that's improbable. The Cabal were "new" Old Ones as I see it, that is the races that had the most civilisational and military power around the time of Eldar Empire.

As I see it, the Eldar were the ONLY true military power at the height of their Empire. They certainly speak like it (but they would...) and other than the Orks, there's absolutely no evidence of any other race that old (that wasn't dormant like the Necrons/C'tan).


Any real, undegraded Old Ones would have to be very old and immensely powerful by that time so they'd shift the balance of otherwise egalitarian council. Degraded and re-ascended descendants of the Old Ones on the other hand, why not? Though they wouldn't be any different from other races by then.

Firstly there is a mention of one being just a being of pure light. ;)

You're also assuming an Old One would let them know who/what it is. In Babylon 5 the Vorlons hide their nature as one of the First Ones (despite it being known that there are other First Ones) until Sheridan forces it out of them and the Shadows.

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 09:02
Can ordinary Necron's shapeshift? They self-repair, but they are not made from the same Necrodermis as the C'Tan.

(My evidence? "Warscythes are made from the same living metal as the hulls of Necron ships and the C'Tan Necrodermis", Necron Codex, Wargear section. That at least strongly implies that the 'crons are not made of Necrodermis, or surely all CC attacks would be Warscythe attacks?)

I posted it couple of post before:


(...)the Necrontyr could be consumed and remade, their minds embeded into machines of living metal like the gods themselves.

and another text from codex:


their cursed flesh would be replaced with living metal in imitation of their gods

they gain their WBB exactly because of the living metal they are made of (the same thing appy to monoliths that can self-repair as it is described in necron codex, also they can shapeshift(atleast lords which are made of the same material actually) in story from Spurrier's "Xenology" and morover i could assume that Governor Tarkis from necron Codex also could be only Necron Lord not the Deciever himself...

Lothlanathorian
30-05-2009, 10:18
Could you give us the page numbers? I know I am not the most studious amongst us here, but I am flipping through my Codex and cannot seem to find these passages.

FlashGordon
30-05-2009, 12:17
Maybe they were us?

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 12:37
Could you give us the page numbers? I know I am not the most studious amongst us here, but I am flipping through my Codex and cannot seem to find these passages.

Look at the war in heaven and Deciever section titles:"betrayal of the necrontyr"(pg 30) and "the fall of the necrontyr"(pg 25)

Giganthrax
30-05-2009, 13:25
But still necrons can shape shift so after milenia of observation they could take the form that would cause a greatest fear of their cattle...
I don't know anything about regular necrons/necrontyr shapeshifting. The Ctan, being gods for all sakes and purposes, can shapeshift, but they can't really be labeled as necrons/necrontyr.

I know some necron lords make progressively more complex bodies for themselves, but I would hardly call this shapeshifting.

Also, if the necrons were making bodies to scare their cattle, why don't we see ork-skeleton necrons? Or tau-skeleton necrons? Or kroot-skeleton necrons?

The way I see it, the necrons are the demented, mostly malfunctioning remnants of an ancient soulless race. It would be beyond them to change their appearance to scare their opponents + it'd go against their concept as an army of silent, soulless mechanical skeletons.

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 13:44
I don't know anything about regular necrons/necrontyr shapeshifting. The Ctan, being gods for all sakes and purposes, can shapeshift, but they can't really be labeled as necrons/necrontyr.

I know some necron lords make progressively more complex bodies for themselves, but I would hardly call this shapeshifting.

Also, if the necrons were making bodies to scare their cattle, why don't we see ork-skeleton necrons? Or tau-skeleton necrons? Or kroot-skeleton necrons?

The way I see it, the necrons are the demented, mostly malfunctioning remnants of an ancient soulless race. It would be beyond them to change their appearance to scare their opponents + it'd go against their concept as an army of silent, soulless mechanical skeletons.
First of all they were never soulless race, they hasn't psychers as Tau has but they had souls morover still has thier souls as they only rebuild their bodies.

As for shapeshifting, there were lords who could shapeshift for sure, we so we could assume that necrons can do it as they are made from the same material and are basically the same , the aswer why we don't see any kroot or orc skeleton shaped necrons is that a) orcs know no fear and probably kroot niether b)humans are one of the largest factions in the galaxy and necrons & C'tan were studing their physiology and psychology for milenia also were interfering their evolution, so there's no better candidates for them...

BramGaunt
30-05-2009, 14:09
(...) in story from Spurrier's "Xenology" and morover i could assume that Governor Tarkis from necron Codex also could be only Necron Lord not the Deciever himself...

Except for the fact that Tarkis wasted a deathstar, I think we can be sure of him being the deciever, as Necron Lords usually don't act on their own like this, and the C'tn Phaseblade is able to take down a lord, but only melts into a C'tan (for now.) And if I remeber it correctly Necron Lords don't enjoy the taste of human essence...?

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 14:21
And if I remeber it correctly Necron Lords don't enjoy the taste of human essence...?
But they may know what their masters like the best, also they are very autonomic thy has their personality, You may talk with them if only they wan't to talk with You, they command and coordinate huge necron army actions, perform a studies upon the 40K factions, manipulate with informations,they can even imperonate an inquisitor(thanks to their shape shift)

The phase blade may not work on necron lord neither, fufwise it is all in all the same material so it may melt with necron either...

Giganthrax
30-05-2009, 15:09
As for shapeshifting, there were lords who could shapeshift for sure,
Sources? I honestly never heard of shapeshifting necron lords.

Idaan
30-05-2009, 15:44
Xenology.The Inquisitor Maturin Ralei is a Necron Lord who disguised himself as a human to capture, dissect and find weaknesses in the fleshy races.

Poseidal
30-05-2009, 15:48
Xenology.The Inquisitor Maturin Ralei is a Necron Lord who disguised himself as a human to capture, dissect and find weaknesses in the fleshy races.

That's not necessarily evidence of Shapeshifting though. We know (from 5th ed rulebook) the Necron Lords can make 'Kustom Bodies' for themselves. Does it suggest he made this body for the job, or actually 'shifted' himself into it?

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 16:03
Sources? I honestly never heard of shapeshifting necron lords.
Source??
I posted it before: "Xenology" there is a story about it, if You want i may send You more informations via PM not to get to much information to the guys who may actually want to read that book...
Ninjad...


That's not necessarily evidence of Shapeshifting though. We know (from 5th ed rulebook) the Necron Lords can make 'Kustom Bodies' for themselves. Does it suggest he made this body for the job, or actually 'shifted' himself into it?
If You would read it You would got the other impression...because He actually changed his shape on the eyes of other inquisitor

Poseidal
30-05-2009, 16:18
If You would read it You would got the other impression...because He actually changed his shape on the eyes of other inquisitor

My interpretation of Xenology is it was basically a 'trip' by an in-universe character; that's the impression it gives to me from what I've read about it and the excerpts given.

There are too many inconsistencies in the entire publication that contradict with more omniscient narratives in other sources that it undermines the entire thing, as well as presenting things that are clearly impossible.

Anyway, that's Lord level, who as someone in command could request that sort of Necrodermis shell to be created. Is it the norm?

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 16:40
My interpretation of Xenology is it was basically a 'trip' by an in-universe character; that's the impression it gives to me from what I've read about it and the excerpts given.

There are too many inconsistencies in the entire publication that contradict with more omniscient narratives in other sources that it undermines the entire thing, as well as presenting things that are clearly impossible.

Anyway, that's Lord level, who as someone in command could request that sort of Necrodermis shell to be created. Is it the norm?
Not everything in sci-fi background must be possible, also not all omniscent narratives are equal to unconditional true fluff, there are a lot of crap there and missinterpretations of what those narratives really are, the whole book was written to be fluff lovers bible, which actually isn't, but still is a great book but ofcourse all codex fluff is superior to it(as it is to everything else no matter if it is omniscent narrative of not if it isn't in codex it isn't fluff canon)

Hood
30-05-2009, 17:51
Also from Xenology:

Necron: ...But there are those of us who remember. Lords and Ladies of another age, converted and purified but not cleansed of memory. I remember the frailty of emotion, the weakness of the flesh, the imperfection of mortality.

DapperAnarchist
30-05-2009, 18:01
In the "chat" at the end of Xenology
My interpretation was that the Lord pulls the skin from his face, T-800 style, not shapeshifting back to skeletal, T-1000 style.

Gethvar
30-05-2009, 19:12
In the "chat" at the end of Xenology
My interpretation was that the Lord pulls the skin from his face, T-800 style, not shapeshifting back to skeletal, T-1000 style.
Necrons are still a lot bigger than regular human ,compare gm model and warrior, the sound of tearing and ripping would be rather the sound of tearing of clothes as human flesh doesn't make such sound so it would be rather due to shapeshifting than tearing his body

Idaan
30-05-2009, 21:06
Indeed, a picture two pages earlier shows the Lord towering above Tech-Priest Darvus. He's good two and a half meter tall.


Also, regarding "custom-built bodies": I got the impression that not all Lords are able to shapeshift: maybe t-1000 liquid metal body is an upgrade akin to Destroyer body or Wraith body, made for Lords who like being sneaky-sneaky.
That's something I'd love to see in the next codex, either as fluff or as an option.

Marshal2Crusaders
30-05-2009, 22:18
So the Old Ones were Vulcan? And the Necrons were Fallout 3 Ghouls? And the Forerunners killed all of them, then the flood came?

Nezmith
31-05-2009, 00:04
And the Necrons were Fallout 3 Ghouls?

Hahaha, yeah that would be a clear image.

Urath
31-05-2009, 00:21
So the Old Ones were Vulcan? And the Necrons were Fallout 3 Ghouls? And the Forerunners killed all of them, then the flood came?

Hahaha I suppose that would be it, only the Enslaver plague came about before Halo's Flood, IIRC.

Same with the Ghouls. Old Ones could be Vulcans though ;)

Lothlanathorian
31-05-2009, 00:24
I pictured them more like WHFB Ghouls.

Revlid
31-05-2009, 19:45
The reason given for most sapient races having a similar body template (two arms, two legs, bipedal, two eyes and mouth and nose in head etc.) is that this is a template the Old Ones found particularly pleasing when making stuff. Given that the only two races known to have evolved alongside the Old Ones rather than at their behest are the Enslavers (floating immaterial jellyfish-ticks) and the Necrontyr (???) I would find it odd that Necrons would also be humanoid.

I would also find it odd that, in order to intimidate their primary opponents the Eldar, they would choose an appearance like the dead of an entirely separate species.

I find it more plausible that the appearance of the Necrons is instead based off an exaggerated version of the Eldar skeleton. Necrontyr looked truly alien, likely with tentacles for faces, and every living moment of their brief lives is agony, to the point that death is considered a priviledge to be earned by great works.

footnote: If Necrontyr were actually humanoid, I'd say they look incredibly similar, give or take a few million years of evolution, to the TAU (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/Warhammer40000). (10th/11th theory down - dun dun dun!)

Lord Damocles
31-05-2009, 20:13
The reason given for most sapient races having a similar body template (two arms, two legs, bipedal, two eyes and mouth and nose in head etc.) is that this is a template the Old Ones found particularly pleasing when making stuff. Given that the only two races known to have evolved alongside the Old Ones rather than at their behest are the Enslavers (floating immaterial jellyfish-ticks) and the Necrontyr (???) I would find it odd that Necrons would also be humanoid.
Although given the rather hazy timescales involved in the Necron(tyr) backstory, it's not entirely clear if the Necrontyr were contemporary with the Old Ones, or wheteher they could even have been a creation of the Old Ones themselves ('As the Old Ones spread across the galaxy, younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake' - Codex: Necrons, pg.24)

It wouldn't surprise me if the Necrontyr being a creation of the Old Ones, and then going on to overthrough them was considered to be suitably 'OMG Ironic!' in the same way as all the primarchs who kill each other seem to have been best buds...


footnote: If Necrontyr were actually humanoid, I'd say they look incredibly similar, give or take a few million years of evolution, to the TAU (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/Warhammer40000). (10th/11th theory down - dun dun dun!)
I realise that this site isn't being entirely serious, but the Tau = new Necrons is one of thos things that people seem to cling to...

Other than Tau having little to no warp presence, there really arn't that many similarities between the two races (and even then Necrontyr having little warp presence is only an asumption which is generally accepted).
Proficiency with technology isn't really a sensible link (besides the two races not using particularly similar tech). Jokaero have good tech. But nobody would claim that the Necrontyr were space orangutangs.
The short lifespan of Tau (other than Mary Sue characters who live for hundreds of years anyway) is also due to entirely different circumstances than that of the Necrontyr - being natural rather than caused by exposure to radiation from their sun.

EDIT: Also, if the Tau *were* Necrontyr, and the Necrons and/or C'tan knew it, you'd expect the Necrons to leave the Tau alone; yet we have several sources showing that Necrons have attacked the Tau.



Tau being a creation of the Old One(s) makes far more sense.

We have an Old One (Cegorach) who's got form when it comes to genetic engineering, and who has Eldar followers who specialise in fighting the forces of Chaos.
Eldar then save the Q'orl from the forces of Chaos and kidnap their Queen. The same pheramone producing organs from that Queen then turn up in the foreheads of the Ethereals who can control the Tau.
The Tau are then saved from certain destruction by a warp storm.

Gethvar
31-05-2009, 21:02
Although given the rather hazy timescales involved in the Necron(tyr) backstory, it's not entirely clear if the Necrontyr were contemporary with the Old Ones, or wheteher they could even have been a creation of the Old Ones themselves ('As the Old Ones spread across the galaxy, younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake' - Codex: Necrons, pg.24)

It wouldn't surprise me if the Necrontyr being a creation of the Old Ones, and then going on to overthrough them was considered to be suitably 'OMG Ironic!' in the same way as all the primarchs who kill each other seem to have been best buds...
It is stated cleary that Necrontyr were encountered not created by the Old Ones, they birth under this star not were created there, necrontyr was probably olmost as old as Old Ones...

Nezmith
31-05-2009, 21:20
I would also find it odd that, in order to intimidate their primary opponents the Eldar, they would choose an appearance like the dead of an entirely separate species.

They were given forms in the imitation of their gods and their ideals of perfection. Necrontyr wanted to shed themselves of their painful lives and be perfect. Every Necron when it came fresh out of the factory would probably look to them like the most beautiful form they could imagine.

They didn't design their looks to intimidate, they designed them because they were going to live forever and look beautiful and divine while doing it.

Lord Damocles
31-05-2009, 22:38
It is stated cleary that Necrontyr were encountered not created by the Old Ones, they birth under this star not were created there, necrontyr was probably olmost as old as Old Ones...
Well, as the Necrontyr are grouped with the 'younger' races which follow in the wake of the Old Ones (pg.24), it's at the very best uncertain how old they could be compared to the Old Ones themselves.

And just because their race was 'born' under the uncaring star doesn't necessarily rule them out as having been edited by the Old Ones.
After all, the Old Ones had a hand in the creation of humans (pg.9), and Terra is still refered to variously as the birthplace and/or cradle of humanity.

BramGaunt
31-05-2009, 22:57
I always liked the idea of the Necrotyr actually being humans, as both races share lots of things:

We suffer short lives in pain. Our birth is marked by it.

We would do anything to defeat death, and it is the highest goal of our researches to release us of the pain and the mortallity of our bodies.

We have a radioactive sun, and some thounsand years ahead it probably will start to toast us and destroy our genes.

Some of us used to build large buildings for the dead (pyramids, the mausoleom...)

Still, this is just a theory I like. No proofs and lots of evidance against it, still not impossible.


As for the Necron Lord disguised as a Inquisitor, isn't that Info out of the Shortstorie Deus Ex Mechanicus, in which the Lord, at the End, is the Deciever? (I never read it, maybe i am wrong on this one.)

Gethvar
31-05-2009, 23:17
Well, as the Necrontyr are grouped with the 'younger' races which follow in the wake of the Old Ones (pg.24), it's at the very best uncertain how old they could be compared to the Old Ones themselves.

And just because their race was 'born' under the uncaring star doesn't necessarily rule them out as having been edited by the Old Ones.
After all, the Old Ones had a hand in the creation of humans (pg.9), and Terra is still refered to variously as the birthplace and/or cradle of humanity.
But still they haven't mess with necrontyr, as they aren't similar to any of the old ones creations or rather evolutionary manipulations.
Also "the younger races" may also mean just less advanced technologically/less expansive, which wouldn't actually put them to the same bag with the OO creations...

DapperAnarchist
31-05-2009, 23:50
I always liked the idea of the Necrotyr actually being humans, as both races share lots of things:

We suffer short lives in pain. Our birth is marked by it.

We would do anything to defeat death, and it is the highest goal of our researches to release us of the pain and the mortallity of our bodies.

We have a radioactive sun, and some thounsand years ahead it probably will start to toast us and destroy our genes.

Some of us used to build large buildings for the dead (pyramids, the mausoleom...)

Still, this is just a theory I like. No proofs and lots of evidance against it, still not impossible.


As for the Necron Lord disguised as a Inquisitor, isn't that Info out of the Shortstorie Deus Ex Mechanicus, in which the Lord, at the End, is the Deciever? (I never read it, maybe i am wrong on this one.)

I don't buy the "Humans are Necrons" thing... it seems.. unfitting.

The Lord/Inquisitor thing is Xenology, the Deciever/Governor is Codex, and the Deciever/Magos thing is Deus Ex Mechanicus

I did indeed mean the Young Races appearance, especially Eldar, as the source of the Necron appearance, if its not in the Necrontyr themselves. Obviously not Humans

Lord Damocles
31-05-2009, 23:51
But still they haven't mess with necrontyr, as they aren't similar to any of the old ones creations or rather evolutionary manipulations.
Again, we just can't say.
We have no physical description of the Necrontyr.
It might be reasonable to assume that they had two arms and two legs given their mechanical form, but then again, they might have thought that being transfered into necrodermis shells was the perfect opportunity to ditch that annoying third arm etc....

Trying to form any sort of arguement about the nature of the Necrontyr is largely pointless since there's nothing to base an arguement on other than guesses and assumptions.


Also "the younger races" may also mean just less advanced technologically/less expansive...
In this context, 'younger' does seem to mean just that. Younger.

...which wouldn't actually put them to the same bag with the OO creations...
Well, the Eldar certainly weren't as technologically advanced as the Old Ones... but they were certainly their creation ;)