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colonel kane trine
08-06-2009, 21:09
Seen as my nurgle high elf army falted and eventually died im thinking of resurrecting it as undead...
Would a high elf willingly embrace a blood kiss? would it be even possible for him to achieve recieving said kiss?

i have rough ideas for converting models but would like to make up some fluff
so maybe something to do with a summoned horde of undead elfs from a huge battle during the storm of chaos?
Any suggestions would be appreciated

also does anybody know which number white dwarf had the high elf converted vampire army in it with mage queen alarielle and converted prince tyrion as vampires? i know i have it but cant find it

DiddyKong
08-06-2009, 23:11
i know the army you speak of. i dont have the whole white dwarf any more. but i still have the article (when i moved into my exes house i didnt have much space, so had to cut up my white dwarfs :() was definatly before 300, if that helps, heh heh.

i think an undead elf army is perfectly plausible.
for the undead regiment of reknown the standard bearer was a skeleton elf i do believe.
not sure if they would accept the blood kiss willingly, though.
doesnt mean it cant be forced upon them though....
theorectially, every race in the warhammer world can be given the blood kiss.
just its usually humans that are depicted as vampires as it fits with legend a bit neater. (though in the genevieve (sp?) books i do believe there was vampire dwarf??)

i hope this helps, even if only a little

colonel kane trine
08-06-2009, 23:13
Thankyou i managed to find the white dwarf its issue 286 october :)
im thinking of doing a rough army list featuring my 12k army of high elves using the vampires army book to see how itll turn out...
Just need to work out which high elf units will represent which undead
then work out my paintscheme...
and work out what 120 high elf archers would count as....

Condottiere
09-06-2009, 05:10
I've heard that there was a beautifully converted HE army. But Elves are for all intents and purposes immortal (they tend to die by mishap), so the extended warranty offered by vampirism can't be attractive, since it's accompanied by a severe allergic reaction to sunlight.

High Elves are conservative by nature. They also wouldn't tolerate such abominations near their communities.

The power offered by isolating their soul from the warp should be attractive to Dark Elves, but there doesn't seem to be a great uptake in Naggarond either. That means the authorities either suppress instances with extreme prejudice, or the current version doesn't effect Elves.

Since Wood Elves tend to like communing with Nature, they might find that form of isolation really foreign to their nature.

Leogun_91
09-06-2009, 18:45
But Elves are for all intents and purposes immortal (they tend to die by mishap), so the extended warranty offered by vampirism can't be attractive, since it's accompanied by a severe allergic reaction to sunlight.Warhammer elfs are not immortal but rather extremely longlived, one of the Phoenixkings has him dieng peacefully in the timeline and Malektih tells Snorri that even elfs are not immortal although it may seem so. They can still live more than a thousand years however and the common human could easily belive them to be able to live forever.


High Elves are conservative by nature. They also wouldn't tolerate such abominations near their communities.Vampires are rarely tolerated in any societies, they would be no less shunned in the Empire.


The power offered by isolating their soul from the warp should be attractive to Dark Elves, but there doesn't seem to be a great uptake in Naggarond either. That means the authorities either suppress instances with extreme prejudice, or the current version doesn't effect Elves.Or maybe the vampires are good at blending in there, the longlifes won´t be noted until earliest after a millenia and even then they could say that they are lucky to get to live such a long life without rousing to much suspision, there is no reason for Naggarond vampires to reveal themselfs, would they someone would try to find out their weaknesses.


Since Wood Elves tend to like communing with Nature, they might find that form of isolation really foreign to their nature.And their xenophobic habbit of killing every tresspasser makes one receaving the bloodkiss less likely.

Bubbatron
09-06-2009, 19:46
have you looked at the eberron campaign setting - theres a faction of elves in ther ecalled the undying, basically good undead - bit of info on the undying court here: http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Undying_Court

Condottiere
09-06-2009, 22:54
Sustainment of their unlife doesn't involve actions that can be construed as evil, nor of questionable morality.

Alathir
10-06-2009, 01:53
I was under the impression the background has it that only humans can become vampires. I'm not sure where I got that, but I know I've heard some 'authority' on the subject say it (authority being one of the regular posters of the background board)

Of course, that doesn't stop you from doing the army... Just know the elitist background-nut side of me will quietly snigger at your illogical and utterly impossible army of blood sucking elves! Damn you and you fallacies! :chrome:

sirbone
10-06-2009, 05:41
It's perfectly feasible. It's a magical world of fantasy- anything can happen. I can quite easily see this thing taking place. I'm fairly sure there are some poncy High Elves, perhaps a young impetuous prince who is jealous of his more successful brother, who fall foul to a Vampire's (female or male) promise of eternity and legions of men to follow them into battle.

People should be less quick to shrug off ideas when, after all, this is all very much limitless and madeup.

obsequiousmelon
10-06-2009, 06:19
There's no reason why the elves can't come back as zombies!

Urgat
11-06-2009, 08:57
I was under the impression the background has it that only humans can become vampires.

VampireSlayer says otherwise. I can't remember the page, but Krieger says (or thinks) about dwarfs, and the sentence goes along the idea that they rarely join the ranks of vampires because there's something in their blood that makes them resilient to it. Rarely also means sometimes, so I can only conclude that there's vampire dwarfs.


There's no reason why the elves can't come back as zombies!

The undead RoR standard bearer is a high elf (skeleton).

Archmagus
11-06-2009, 10:10
Personally, I think a High Elf Wight King would be much cooler and more appropriate lore-wise for an Undead High Elf army than a Vampire.

You could make full use of some of that gorgeous Asur armour for a Wight Lord, Wight Heroes, Black Knights and Grave Guard, and then make as many Elf zombies and skeletons as you want.

"Morai-Heg is an Elven goddess known as the Keeper of Souls or the Crone. She is said to hold a parch made of skin within which the fates of mortals are kept. She has the ability to read the future in the passage of the stars, and when death approaches she sends Banshees to foretell it with their wails. When an Elf dies, his soul passes into her possession and if she chooses she can release it to re-enter the world of the living again.

Morai-Heg is portrayed as an ancient and withered creature clad in ragged dark robes and carrying a gnarled, twisted staff and pouch. Her worship is probably the least popular among the High Elves."

I could see Elves being maintained as eternal guardians of Ulthuan beyond death, perhaps as a military detachment located in close proximity with the Annulii. As long as you don't include anything as gross as zombies and ghouls, it shouldn't be a problem.

Of course, add a Necromancer in there, and you can make an entire Elf army as gross as you want!

Ultimate Life Form
11-06-2009, 10:17
I would emphasize it differently:


She has the ability to read the future in the passage of the stars, and when death approaches she sends Banshees to foretell it with their wails.

:rolleyes:

Could it be any more obvious? Did you know she has a Black Coach carry the souls to her? And that she has a taste for blood? Have fun with your undead High Elves.

Archmagus
11-06-2009, 10:29
There's also an old-school High Magic spell called Apotheosis which temporarily raises dead High Elves so that they can continue fighting while causing Fear to enemies for the remainder of the turn/battle (can't remember which).

The Asur are not above necromancy... as long it's their kind of magic used when it's done.

Gazak Blacktoof
11-06-2009, 10:41
Necromancy is based around dark magic. Whatever else you can accuse high elves of, necromancy isn't part of it. Apotheosis is a temporary cure all rather than necromancy.

Elf Vampires aren't part of warhammer lore because necromancy doesn't offer them anything and would probably dull their heightened elven senses- the best elves can kick the snot out of a vampire. If you want an elven vampire then you need a good story to back it up or else simply ignore warhamemr lore and just run with "well its cool!"

Archmagus
11-06-2009, 11:17
Necromancy is based around dark magic. Whatever else you can accuse high elves of, necromancy isn't part of it. Apotheosis is a temporary cure all rather than necromancy. I'm not sure death is covered in temporary cure-all spells. :p

The name of the spell itself suggests a transformation or transcendence onto a divine or spiritual plane. It may not be as rotten and gruesome as its dark magic equivalent, but it's still a form of necromancy creating a fear-causing warrior returned from the dead.

And there will still be Elf undead roaming the Annulii, so the idea is plausible either way.

Condottiere
11-06-2009, 12:08
On the bright side, it's easier to justify an Elven Vampire than a 40K female space marine, since the concepts are based on magic rather than biology.

Sir Charles
11-06-2009, 18:54
I was under the impression the background has it that only humans can become vampires. I'm not sure where I got that, but I know I've heard some 'authority' on the subject say it (authority being one of the regular posters of the background board)

Of course, that doesn't stop you from doing the army... Just know the elitist background-nut side of me will quietly snigger at your illogical and utterly impossible army of blood sucking elves! Damn you and you fallacies! :chrome:I think that NDM takes some steps in that direction without flat out saying its impossible.

Lamhirh
14-06-2009, 08:12
the best elves can kick the snot out of a vampire.

Correction, the best elves can kick the snot out of the average vampire because the 'best' vampires can be very, very nasty indeed. Fluffwise some of the oldest vampires are stronger and faster than virtually any mortal save some chaos champions. Heck, I've even seen that ol' bag-o-bones Zacharias the Everliving kill the likes of Morathi on the TT...

Gazak Blacktoof
14-06-2009, 08:38
Morathi is a bit of wimp in combat. I don't suppose he'd have the same luck against one of the combat characters, particularly those mounted on dragons.

However I was talking about it from a fluff perspective more than a table top one. Elves, particularly high elves, seem to be particularly adept at kicking the snot out of anything remotely tainted by magic.

I also think that a big part of a vampire's power is their enthralling presence and the fear they induce in others because of what they represent, I can't see an elf being particularly phased by either of those.

Don't forget that elves seem to think that the sun shines out of the ass- that's count to count for something when fighting the undead.;)

Condottiere
14-06-2009, 08:53
Not unless they plan to moon the undead.

Gazak Blacktoof
14-06-2009, 09:03
Why do you think they wear dresses?

Lamhirh
14-06-2009, 09:19
Actually both are rather wimpy in melee, which was exactly my point. Elves are a people steeped in magic yet one of their most powerful sorcerers can get her scantily clad toosh handed to her by a fanged mummy. So if we are talking about fair matches you would pit Tyrion against say Abhorash (with KB!) which is almost as mean-spirited as pitting him against Crom. Now let's all sing the curbstomp song...

I think it's important to remember that undeath is a transcendent state, a vampire is no longer human and is not subject to the same weaknesses that plague most mortals. Elves while generally more resilient than humans, are hardly immune to psychology which as you mentioned is something vampires manipulate with ease. In the fluff dark elven men can become so enamoured of a witch elf that some seek their affections and lose their lives on Khaine's altar as a result! Witch Elves are fast and they are nasty, but you will never see one kill 20+ armed men in the span of like 2 minutes with her bare hands. Which is, incidentally, what a run-of-the-mill Lamhian did. Now imagine what the most powerful Lahmians are capable of...most men (human and elven) wouldn't stand a chance, they would be completely enthralled for starters. Next we have the Blood Dragons; how many elves do you know of that can physically stop an opponent's heavy warhorse at full gallop with one hand?

Urgat
14-06-2009, 13:15
Elf Vampires aren't part of warhammer lore because necromancy doesn't offer them anything and would probably dull their heightened elven senses- the best elves can kick the snot out of a vampire. If you want an elven vampire then you need a good story to back it up or else simply ignore warhamemr lore and just run with "well its cool!"

Of course not. First nothing says there can't be vampire elves (if there can be dwarf vampires, surely elves can be too), second, no, vampires can't be beaten by elves, unless they got crazy magic items, and third, you don't choose to become a vampire, a vampire chooses for you, so the part about it offering them anything is totaly moot.


Don't forget that elves seem to think that the sun shines out of the ass- that's count to count for something when fighting the undead.;)

Nice one :D


So if we are talking about fair matches you would pit Tyrion against say Abhorash (with KB!) which is almost as mean-spirited as pitting him against Crom. Now let's all sing the curbstomp song...



How is that fair? You want fair, add a Slaanesh twist to it: put naked Tyrion versus naked Crom, or a an ancient, naked vampire. I think out of those three, there's one who cannot reap someone else's throat with his bare hands (or teeth)...

Lamhirh
14-06-2009, 16:33
How is that fair? You want fair, add a Slaanesh twist to it: put naked Tyrion versus naked Crom, or a an ancient, naked vampire. I think out of those three, there's one who cannot reap someone else's throat with his bare hands (or teeth)...


That would not be pretty. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPXHI2h-K-M) Poor, poor Tyrion.

kikkoman
16-06-2009, 20:31
How is that fair? You want fair, add a Slaanesh twist to it: put naked Tyrion versus naked Crom, or a an ancient, naked vampire. I think out of those three, there's one who cannot reap someone else's throat with his bare hands (or teeth)...

Now if Tyrion knew some Lustrian Jujitsu and took Crom to the ground, then he could pull through with a rear naked choke or other submission move.

Or the high elf could just fight dirty with eyepokes and ball squeezers.

Condottiere
16-06-2009, 21:26
Tyrion is fast and but suffers from low Toughness - he would really need to score four hits with ASF, otherwise he probably won't survive to the second round.

Gorbad Ironclaw
17-06-2009, 05:31
Meh, if you want to there are plenty of ways to come up with a plausible reason for having a High Elf VC army.

My own undead Dark Elf army is lead by a sorceress from the time of the fall who desperate to see the elves prosper again and return to there rightful place as the dominant species have entered the service of the elven god of the death (I always forget her name). As such she is more like a half demonic servant than a vampire but it work out to be the same in the game.

General Samuel of the 101
19-06-2009, 00:20
I think Undead High Elves makes more sense with the Tomb Kings list

Condottiere
19-06-2009, 05:42
Not necessarily - the Tomb Kings have an entire nation, Undead Elves might be able to populate a small city, but would be hunted down and exterminated by their necrophobic kinsmen.

General Samuel of the 101
19-06-2009, 10:56
Not necessarily - the Tomb Kings have an entire nation, Undead Elves might be able to populate a small city, but would be hunted down and exterminated by their necrophobic kinsmen.

I mean in the context of a smallish army, not a entire nation

Suicide Messiah
19-06-2009, 11:34
Id go for TK with background relaiting to that goddess mentioned earlier.

As for the ard elfs vs. ard vamps. My money is on Aborash everytime in a fight. Teclis ifits a magical duel.

Hideous Loon
19-06-2009, 15:31
Also, concerning the game, Tomb Kings would work better with the models available, with archers and two different types of cavalry, one fast and one really fast. Problem: Chariots.

But Undead Elves are totally doable, both from a game and a fluff perspective.

Gorbad Ironclaw
19-06-2009, 18:27
On the other hand you could do things like a monstrous white lion as a Varghulf, an ornate chariot as a Black Coach, and Grave Guards seems more fitting(especially with Great Weapons) than Tomb Guards as high elf house guards/elite infantry.

But really, it's all about what you prefer and what aspects of the army you want to show/build.

Tekomandor
23-06-2009, 05:02
Undead High Elves, and in response to the comment about an elf beating a vampire, how about aborash fighting Anearion = dead aborash.

Bretonnian Lord
23-06-2009, 05:10
Undead High Elves, and in response to the comment about an elf beating a vampire, how about aborash fighting Anearion = dead aborash.

Aenarion had the God-sword and uber armor, however, whereas Aborash (AFAIK) killed a dragon with his bare hands.

No denying that they're both skilled warriors, but it really depends on the circumstances they fight under. I could see either Aborash or Aenarion prevailing in different scenarios.

stormblade
23-06-2009, 05:41
Undead High Elves, and in response to the comment about an elf beating a vampire, how about aborash fighting Anearion = dead aborash.


He's a vampire so technically he's already dead

but, to relate to one previous post- naked Abhorash vs naked Anearion- dead anearion.

Condottiere
23-06-2009, 08:04
You have to bear in mind that for all intents and purposes, Aenarion was a demigod.

Leogun_91
23-06-2009, 23:26
You have to bear in mind that for all intents and purposes, Aenarion was a demigod.So is Belakor and he and an army of deamons was banished by a single elf mage.
There have been demigods before and they are not unbeatable, Aenarion without his beloved sword would get a hard time with you´r average vampire and would get crushed by Aborash as easily as most elfs (easily).

Arnizipal
24-06-2009, 11:11
Actually both are rather wimpy in melee, which was exactly my point. Elves are a people steeped in magic yet one of their most powerful sorcerers can get her scantily clad toosh handed to her by a fanged mummy. Zacharias defeated Melkhior, who had in turn defeated and devoured one of the Master Vampires. Zacharias is everything but a wimp. He is the most powerful Necrarch vampire at the moment (provided he killed Melkhior when he defeated him). Morathi is Zacharias' equal when it comes to spellcasting, but she is no melee fighter. Unlike vampires who by their very nature are unusually strong.

Malekith versus Zacharias would be a fairer fight.


Aenarion had the God-sword and uber armor, however, whereas Aborash (AFAIK) killed a dragon with his bare hands.
It wasn't with his bare hands. Even Abhorash wasn't that über.


So is Belakor and he and an army of deamons was banished by a single elf mage.
There have been demigods before and they are not unbeatable, Aenarion without his beloved sword would get a hard time with you´r average vampire and would get crushed by Aborash as easily as most elfs (easily).
Aenarion was an avatar of two gods. He has none of the weaknesses daemons have.

Condottiere
24-06-2009, 11:15
Except arrogance.

Arnizipal
24-06-2009, 12:42
And being stabbed repeatedly by magical pointy things.