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Lion El Jason
08-05-2005, 23:14
Not much rules in here, if thats what you're after see the rumour thread!

The front cover has been available to view on the net for a while now. Its Alex Boyds' re-working of the T-Rex vs. Bus from "The Lost World" but this time with 'Nid vs Rhino.

Of note is Andy Chambers as a principle Author Credit...Goes to show how far in advance GW was working on this. The intro and why collect 'nids section is standard. Then we move on to the background and historyy section. I was quite disappointed with large sections of this being cut & pasted (Or very slightly re-worked) from the last codex and even the 2nd ed codex. Much of the text on Behemoth and Kracken is exact cut & paste or very familiar but once we get to new stuff its good high quality GW backstory. I dont want to ruin it by trying to re-tell any of it myself but reading the "Lost Hive Fleets", "The Hydra Effect" and other bits in that section really brings home the feel of the 'nids. Also the short stories are mostly excelent, as per usual these days I'm pleased to say.

The Army Special Rules are next and all are well presented and easy to follow except the biovore rules which I'm still involved in arguments over whether you get 3 or 9 templates from 3 biovores. The Changes to the bio weapons are mostly good, they make much more sense now, as do some of the close combat symbiotes (Though personally I dont like the boneswords rules or the idea of crushing claws). The dimise of the BS4 warp Blast on the tyrant is a shame but no big problem and the expanded hive power list is really cool.

The 2 pages of Biomorphs reminded me of the 2nd ed codex. Its a bit wierd that they didn't decide to reduce the T and W of the Tyrant and give it the options to increase them back up but no big loss. Tyrant Guard can still not have 2+ saves. A nice addition here was the "Common name" for the Tyrant: Overfiend -Homage to Andy C?
The rest of the army list is good, new stuff is cool! The only problem I found was that I'm not sure if the Genestealers have to have the same options or not (It specifically says for gaunts, rippers, hormagaunts but not for stealers and the stealer sprue hasn't got enough bits to give all the stealers most options (Eg the heads)
Also Gargoyles now have no options so all those people who used to have morphed winged gaunts with devourers, scything talons or whatever now have useless models.
Also the 'fex entry takes up 2 whole pages which is cool. It does have the most options in the codex.

This is my pet hate though. GW did it with the marine codex and screwed up again. The Summary needs to be on the last page so its easy to find.
Having it somewhere in the middle is no real use when you need to know how many wounds a lictor has in a hurry (Changed in new dex you see).

the whole colour section is good and I particularly liked the many colour scemes with gaunts painted for each and Victoria Lambs' Lictor in the showcase (Just a shame they didn't swap pages with the summary...)

This is an excelent codex, easily on par with the marine codex and if its a good indicator of things to come, I'll gladly buy all the upcoming codexes.

Eversor
09-05-2005, 02:14
I was quite disappointed with large sections of this being cut & pasted (Or very slightly re-worked) from the last codex and even the 2nd ed codex.
And that's bad? ;) Second edition was background paradise...


<snip> reading the "Lost Hive Fleets", "The Hydra Effect" and other bits in that section really brings home the feel of the 'nids.
Cool to have some new bits though. As long as there's no revisionism ;)


<snip> I'm still involved in arguments over whether you get 3 or 9 templates from 3 biovores.
Three, sir...


A nice addition here was the "Common name" for the Tyrant: Overfiend -Homage to Andy C?
Cool!

I also agree that the artwork and colour section are ace. From what I saw of the book (during my 10 minute read) it's very well edited and laid out. Can't wait 'til saturday when I get it...

Hellebore
09-05-2005, 04:59
Quick question:

How big is the nid dex? is it 64 or 80 pages. I am really hoping they are going to go the road of the fantasy army books and make each one 80, because the 48 page travesties that I have had to put up with for the last 6 years are beyond a joke.

80 pages good....64 pages ok.

hellebore

Delicious Soy
09-05-2005, 09:48
I think GW learned their lesson in 3rd ed (eventually). Small Codex = bad. THe newer ones aren't as in depth as the 2nd ed ones, but they are certainly condensed in term of information, which is good, pity they can't expand them.

philbrad2
09-05-2005, 09:58
Very sweet. Im getting a mental pic shouting '2nd ed Nid dex' - one of my favourite codices ever. Looks like the bugs are back with a bang. My worry was the codex wouldn't back up the squiffy new models, looks like it will. Bit disappointed about the Gargy's. I was planning to add a large brood of the sucka's to my revised force using plastic Gaunts don't think I'll bother :(

:cool:

New Cult King
09-05-2005, 10:05
It's sounding good...

I'm looking forward to this one, and I hope it is 80 pages... big, chunky codexes are awesome :)

Lion El Jason
09-05-2005, 10:05
Its 64 pages but I never thought it needed to be longer.

Eversor: I said its three but there are people saying you fire three shots each making a barrage of three templates...
The background material from 2nd ed was great but I'd have thought someone would have re-written it.

Odin
09-05-2005, 11:06
Also Gargoyles now have no options so all those people who used to have morphed winged gaunts with devourers, scything talons or whatever now have useless models.

Is there not an option to give your termagants wings or something? No other way of making gargoyles with options?


The background material from 2nd ed was great but I'd have thought someone would have re-written it.

No need to re-invent the wheel. I'd rather they spent their effort working on new stuff than re-working stuff which was good enough in the first place.

Scythe
09-05-2005, 11:27
Also Gargoyles now have no options so all those people who used to have morphed winged gaunts with devourers, scything talons or whatever now have useless models.


I don't think there will be many of those, since pretty much every biomorphed gaunt with wings was a rip off (pts wise) compared to gargoyles.

Mantus
10-05-2005, 19:59
Is there not an option to give your termagants wings or something? No other way of making gargoyles with options?

No. The only movement enhancing upgrade gaunts can take is skuttlers (scout). They also have no options for talons or claws.

boogle
10-05-2005, 21:03
this sounds really good, i'm going to have to try and get my hands on this asap

zealousheretic
10-05-2005, 21:27
The background material from 2nd ed was great but I'd have thought someone would have re-written it.

I love the 2nd ed background. No need to rewrite it; it's fine as-is, and rewriting it risks someone screwing it up.

Brimstone
10-05-2005, 22:15
The Army Special Rules are next and all are well presented and easy to follow except the biovore rules which I'm still involved in arguments over whether you get 3 or 9 templates from 3 biovores.

I already tried that one. :p

The wording on page 28 makes it clear.


Each Biovore brood fires as many Spore Mines as there are Biovores in that brood

It's an excellent codex, I loved the return of the Zoats but not Squats. ;)

Mantus
10-05-2005, 23:51
Bah! Why do so many people like tyranid fluff? What's so cool about it? The main characters of tyranid fluff are anyone but the tyranids themselves. Tyranids are just a mindless catalyst for a plotline. Which is just fine and peachy unless you want to build your own tyranid army.

Lion El Jason
10-05-2005, 23:53
No, I disagree...Read the bit on hydra effect and a report on how its likely that the fleets are just different tendrils of a massive uberfleet and stuff and it gives you loads of character for your own nid army.

Hellebore
11-05-2005, 06:11
64 pages eh? well I suppose that is better than 48 (but only by 16 pages ;) ).

Seriously though, why are they still making smaller dexs? The fantasy army books are all 80 pages each- is it because younger people play 40k and can't read big books? It's not that I don't appreciate a 64 page codex, but when the marine one came out at 80 I though Eureka! we are finally getting 80 page codicies. But alas, it appears that an extra 16 pages is too much for even 4th ed codicies.

hellebore

zealousheretic
16-05-2005, 16:54
Bah! Why do so many people like tyranid fluff? What's so cool about it? The main characters of tyranid fluff are anyone but the tyranids themselves. Tyranids are just a mindless catalyst for a plotline. Which is just fine and peachy unless you want to build your own tyranid army.

I like the Tyranid fluff a great deal, and I've been playing them since 2nd Edition. I like the fact that Tyranids are different from the other races.

I guess the appeal, to me, is the force of nature aspect of the Tyranids. They're a predator of mind-boggling dimensions which is moving to new feeding grounds. While the Imperium and the other sentients in the galaxy try frantically to stop them, the Hive Mind probably regards them as nothing more than Prey. They've likely destroyed countless civilizations in order to feed and propagate, neither knowing nor caring what they've smashed. Should the Tyranids wipe out our galaxy as well, it will simply be another part of a growing wasteland they leave in their wake. Unless something destroys them, the Tyranids will be the end of all other lifeforms.

The facelessness makes that idea work. If the Hive Mind had some sort of hatred for the other races, then its actions would have a human logic to them, making the race as a whole less scary. Since the Hive Mind is ultimately motivated solely by animal instincts; the need to survive, to grow, to propagate, its actions seem more alien, more animalistic.

cyndre
16-05-2005, 19:26
Seriously though, why are they still making smaller dexs? The fantasy army books are all 80 pages each- is it because younger people play 40k and can't read big books? It's not that I don't appreciate a 64 page codex, but when the marine one came out at 80 I though Eureka! we are finally getting 80 page codicies. But alas, it appears that an extra 16 pages is too much for even 4th ed codicies.

My guess is that the FB universe is a lot more defined, because, in part on all the sourcebooks for WH roleplaying game.

boogle
16-05-2005, 20:24
they have a lot more storied background in them as well as their timeline isn't reallly moving forward that much

philbrad2
16-05-2005, 20:44
It's an excellent codex, I loved the return of the Zoats but not Squats. ;)


Da ZOATs is back .... :)

:cool:

boogle
16-05-2005, 21:35
they're actually called Collossus i think

M@L@L
16-05-2005, 22:36
My reading of it is that Collossus is the name of the hive fleet that the zoats were a part of. Games workshop probably decided to give just a description of them (centauroid creatures), as saying Zoat nowadays is like people at Hogwarts saying Voldermort. :D

I drew a Zoat concept sketch last night as I'm thinking of sculpting some for a rogue Zoat army. It's the most recent one of many and I'm actually quite proud of it despite my lack of drawing abilities. It's kinda like a rhino centaur in terms of it's lower portions and that theme is also carried across in the head. All tyranids have a bony crest atop their head which consists of five plates. On the Zoats this will be represented by five horns, three small and stumpy and the front two slightly larger.

Brimstone
16-05-2005, 22:39
My reading of it is that Collossus is the name of the hive fleet that the zoats were a part of. Games workshop probably decided to give just a description of them (centauroid creatures), as saying Zoat nowadays is like people at Hogwarts saying Voldermort. :D

Well the rebellious Zoats came from Collossus.

Zoats in other hive fleets were probably sent to the reclamation pools to stop them from getting similar ideas, hence the lack of Zoats these days.

That or the Imperium destroyed the only source of Zoatibix. ;)

M@L@L
16-05-2005, 23:22
Aaah, so Collossus was made up entirely of rogue Zoats? Well that sounds even cooler as I just guessed that it was an experimental fleet used by the nids to see if they could negotiate with their food. I'm still waiting to scrape enough money together to get the nid box set so I'm just using snippets of info on the Zoats at the mo.

Drillboss
25-05-2005, 10:04
Zoatibix,.... anyone remember the misspelling incident way back in 1998 when someone had seen a fuzzy picture of a page in the 3rd ed rulebook with the description of commissars being full of Z---, if not, read the ancient story below: ;)
------
From: Olcglas@aol.com (Olcglas@aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:50:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Portent IG - Replies and reprisals

"Commissar Lorintz's face was nearly ork-green. His gorge roiled, and only his iron will held his stomach in check. His jaws ached, his lips trembled and his forehead shone with sweat. "By the Emperor, I *shall* do my duty. I shall meet the challenge of the future. I shall be *ready* and *fit* for my new assignment..." He forced his arm to lift another forkful of steaming zoat to his lips...

"Lorintz, stop! In the Emperor's name...it was a misreading! You can stop wolfing down boiled zoat - it was a mistake!"

The fork fell from the commissar's shaking hand. With rigid precision, Commissar Lorintz rose, saluted, and walked stiffly out of the officers' mess. A moment later, phenomenal retching noises echoed from the direction of the latrines.

"I can't believe he ate all that zoat."

"well, that's his ZEAL for you..."

Damn, but that's the power of suggestion for you: logically, if I had to guess a 4-letter word starting with 'z' that described Commissars, I'd have guessed 'zeal' in a snap. But, once my mind's eye saw 'zoat', it just fixated

____

Other ancient stories at : http://members.tripod.com/~bestofthelist/humor.htm

Yorkiebar
25-05-2005, 17:38
The Summary needs to be on the last page so its easy to find.
Better than Codex: Orks, which doesn't have a summary and hence doesn't actually contain stats for the common shoota or slugga :wtf:


Though personally I dont like the boneswords rules or the idea of crushing claws
I never liked boneswords. As for crushing claws, we were warned that Old One Eye would be filtered into the normal army list.

One thing about the new codex I love the sound of is no 'Custom hive fleets', and no mutants. This will really help put lists together more quickly and effectively. I also really like having Spore Cysts for carnifexes and an invulnerable save available (even a 6+ one).

boogle
25-05-2005, 20:22
the later print runs of Codex Orks have the summary in them

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
25-05-2005, 20:49
It's an excellent codex, I loved the return of the Zoats but not Squats. ;)

Are Zoats just mentioned as fluff?

boogle
25-05-2005, 21:01
they aren'ty actually mentioned by name but they are alluded to as a splinter fleet

thanoson
26-05-2005, 06:55
So, you guys think zoats would work good as warriors?

boogle
26-05-2005, 09:21
they would, but you woould have to do some conversion work at the models are limited in what they were armed with

M@L@L
27-05-2005, 22:45
Just one wee question. The spore mine broods, are they a fast attack or troops choice? I'm still waiting to get the money together for the boxed set but I'm making my plans for the army before hand.

Mantus
28-05-2005, 01:57
Fast attack.

You get one cluster of 1-3 mines if I recal corectly.

Scythe
28-05-2005, 14:06
Yes, that's correct. A cluster constists of 1-3 mines of the same type and obviously always deep strike. Cost varies per type mine, but it's not a huge investment of pts.

Only disadvantage is it limits the number of other FA choices of course (I like deploying my raveners apart as units of 1).

bluedwaggin
28-05-2005, 14:10
The Army Special Rules are next and all are well presented and easy to follow except the biovore rules which I'm still involved in arguments over whether you get 3 or 9 templates from 3 biovores.

Youd get 9 templates. It does say that each one fires a number equal to the amount in the squad. So with 3 biovores each fires 3 times. I do agree the codex is very nice. and Genestealers Rock!! :evilgrin:

Scythe
28-05-2005, 14:13
Which is quite nice concidering genestealers under 3rd edition were a rip off. But with fleet and a possible 4+ armour save, stealers will be reappearing in my armies....

Mantus
28-05-2005, 14:49
Which is quite nice concidering genestealers under 3rd edition were a rip off. But with fleet and a possible 4+ armour save, stealers will be reappearing in my armies....

You pay big for that save. They have fleet but they lose infiltration. Fleet is more reliable then infiltration but it's not by that much. They are basically the same unit, there is no big improvement, if you thought they were a rip off in the 3rd Ed codex with the new 4th Ed mission system then you will still think they are overpriced.

Frankly I found that they worked well enough under 4th Ed.

Lion El Jason
28-05-2005, 15:10
the 4+ save is a big deal. Its what makes them worth it in the new 'dex.

bluedwaggin
28-05-2005, 15:29
:evilgrin:
You pay big for that save. They have fleet but they lose infiltration. Fleet is more reliable then infiltration but it's not by that much. They are basically the same unit, there is no big improvement, if you thought they were a rip off in the 3rd Ed codex with the new 4th Ed mission system then you will still think they are overpriced.

Frankly I found that they worked well enough under 4th Ed.


The 4+ armour save isnt that much and makes them alot better. That and with Rending changed they are better. So many wounds possible and with the Rending rule. I Took them in a battle agisnt a khornite mortal army and Crushed him Mainly with 18 Gene Steelers:) and Rending did most of the work.

hastur
28-05-2005, 17:31
Youd get 9 templates. It does say that each one fires a number equal to the amount in the squad. So with 3 biovores each fires 3 times. I do agree the codex is very nice. and Genestealers Rock!! :evilgrin:

no, sorry. the codex is right in front of my eyes and it says 'each BROOD fire as many spore as there are bioviores in the brood'. so 3 biovore = 3 mines.

BTW, i read recently (can't remember in which thread) that Carnifex were subjected to IB test. but the rules state that 'broods' have to undergo IB tests. and fex entry in the list isn't in the 'brood' category. neither are zoans and lictors. but biovores, raveners, etc... entries are clearly in the 'brood' category.

so i think fex don't have to IB test. could anyone confirm/infirm that ?

Scythe
28-05-2005, 21:14
You pay big for that save. They have fleet but they lose infiltration. Fleet is more reliable then infiltration but it's not by that much. They are basically the same unit, there is no big improvement, if you thought they were a rip off in the 3rd Ed codex with the new 4th Ed mission system then you will still think they are overpriced.

Frankly I found that they worked well enough under 4th Ed.

The save is a big difference. A 4+ save means a 50% casualty reduction against almost every basic weapon in the game (bolter, pulse rifle, shurken, gauss flayer, and even fleshborer/spinefist). Even against the other basic weapons (lasgun, kroot rifle and shoota/slugga) the genestealers got way better compared to the previous dex (where they only had a 6+ save, remember). And with the new rapid fire rules, it's almost certain that a unit will get a volley delivered, so you will really need that save for your expensive stealer. For 4 pts on top of 16, I think that that's a very nice deal.

This works of course combined with the gain of fleet. Previously, genestealers could infliltrate, yes, but they weren't fast enough to reach the enemy before they got shot to bits, mainly because of the new rapid fire rules, which gave them almost no chance to survive, even in cover. Now however, altough advancing with the main swarm, they can easily keep up, and at the same time shrug of basic weapon fire. They still die to heavy weapon fire, true, but that means that those heavy weapons aren't targeting your warriors/ monstrous creatures. Also, the new target priority rules also help genestealers out a bit, since they will now be advancing with the rest of the swarm.


BTW, i read recently (can't remember in which thread) that Carnifex were subjected to IB test. but the rules state that 'broods' have to undergo IB tests. and fex entry in the list isn't in the 'brood' category. neither are zoans and lictors. but biovores, raveners, etc... entries are clearly in the 'brood' category

so i think fex don't have to IB test. could anyone confirm/infirm that ?.

Interesting, didn't notice that. I'm not entirly sure, but I don't see any reference to biovores being a brood either, altough they have brood telepathy. My feeling says the carnifex wouldn't be subject to IS (being fearless and all), but again,
I wouldn't know for sure. Question for the FAQ?

hastur
01-06-2005, 13:33
well in fact in the title of each unit description you can read either 'Brood of XXX' or just 'XXX'

for example : 'hive tyrant, carnifex, zoantrope, lictor'... but 'brood of raveners, brood of gaunts, brood of biovores' (so yes bioviores are brood).

my opinion is that maybe only the units entitled 'brood of XXX' in the list are subject to IB tests (well, except for warriors).

and by the way, 'fearless' gives immunity to moral and pining test, but not to LD tests in general (and IB is just described as a LD test).

Mr Evil
01-06-2005, 13:41
The save is a big difference. A 4+ save means a 50% casualty reduction against almost every basic weapon in the game (bolter, pulse rifle, shurken, gauss flayer, and even fleshborer/spinefist). Even against the other basic weapons (lasgun, kroot rifle and shoota/slugga) the genestealers got way better compared to the previous dex (where they only had a 6+ save, remember). And with the new rapid fire rules, it's almost certain that a unit will get a volley delivered, so you will really need that save for your expensive stealer. For 4 pts on top of 16, I think that that's a very nice deal.

It's almost certain that Genestealers will get rapid-fired only if you're running them at the front of your army. Spinegaunts and Hormagaunts should be screening your Genestealers (No more STBO) and making it more difficult for them to be shot at longer ranges. When they close in, Hormies and possibly Spinegaunts should already be in combat (depending on deployment) preventing any shots on your stealers. Then the Genestealers just join the combat and clean up whatever is leftover in 1 or 2 phases. If you use such a strategy, then there is really no reason to take EC on stealers, only if you're using them in a non-gaunt army.

But about the Codex, after reading it I would have rather had no codex made for 4th edition and kept using the 3rd. The majority of effective units will now cost more or be of similar costs but have a loss of ability (Warrior FoF, DualVCFex). Additionally, they've made Biovores and Lictors totally worthless. Biovores now get an amazing 3 small-blast template shots of weak STR for 150+ points and due to them still requiring synapse they might not be firing at all anyway. They're worse than IG mortars now. Lictors have gotten some shiny new rules, but whatever they charge will kill them as they've got only 2 wounds now. And you can't argue that they give nearby units a 3+ to hit in combat, because you could use those 80 points to buy Adrenal Glands for those broods which work for the WHOLE unit. Carnifexes cost more with no gain in ability and have access to biomorphs which are a joke (Wow, Crushing Claws for +0.5 more attacks, only 25 points!), and Warriors will still die horribly to Heavy Bolter/HBeq fire. The only useful units that I can see in the new dex are Tyrants/Spinegaunts/Genestealers. Zoanthorpes would be nice if there weren't so many Psychic Hoods everywhere.

hastur
01-06-2005, 15:17
When they close in, Hormies and possibly Spinegaunts should already be in combat (depending on deployment) preventing any shots on your stealers. Then the Genestealers just join the combat and clean up whatever is leftover in 1 or 2 phases.

when you use such a strategy, you usually end up splitting your army in two swarms. which is very bad against counter-attack opponents like space wolves. when tyranids players use their 30+ gaunts just to charge and prevent me from shooting, without synchronous charge from all units, my wolves just slaughter the gaunts in 2 turns of CC, and are free to shoot, or retreat from the next swarm. of course, it doesn't work that way all time, but usually splitting their swarm this way is harmfull for my opponents


Biovores now get an amazing 3 small-blast template shots of weak STR for 150+ points and due to them still requiring synapse they might not be firing at all anyway

first, biovores don't need synapse if I'm not mistaken, due to their 'brood telepathy'. second, the 3*little templates are of course less powerful than 3*big but at least the barrage rules makes them more efficient than just 3 shots with little template (as obtained with death-spitters)


And you can't argue that they give nearby units a 3+ to hit in combat, because you could use those 80 points to buy Adrenal Glands for those broods which work for the WHOLE unit

yep. lictor is not THAT useful (it's sad because the fig is awesome and the fluff is cool) but its feeder tendrils give 'sworn ennmy' to any brood with AT LEAST ONE fig within 2" (just to settle things, i'm not sure you knew this from what i read). and in some (minor) cases, it's better than just WS5.
and you can also re-roll for the entry of your units, which in 'escalation' is very useful (one of the only times you'll want to have a lictor).


Warriors will still die horribly to Heavy Bolter/HBeq fire

which is the way things should be (and that's the tyranids player who's speaking)


Zoanthorpes would be nice if there weren't so many Psychic Hoods everywhere.

the only psy powers requiring a LD test are catalist and warp blast LV2. the other ones can't be dispelled by a psychic hood. and even with a psychic hood in the opponent army, with 3 zoans (150pts) some WB LV2 are bound to be cast successfully.

Dreachon
01-06-2005, 15:35
It did so in the old codex and also in the new it mentions this, only those psychic powers that require psyhcic test can be cancelled, the others are uneffected.

As for the new nids, I don't think their that bad

Wez
01-06-2005, 15:39
It's almost certain that Genestealers will get rapid-fired only if you're running them at the front of your army. Spinegaunts and Hormagaunts should be screening your Genestealers (No more STBO) and making it more difficult for them to be shot at longer ranges. When they close in, Hormies and possibly Spinegaunts should already be in combat (depending on deployment) preventing any shots on your stealers. Then the Genestealers just join the combat and clean up whatever is leftover in 1 or 2 phases. If you use such a strategy, then there is really no reason to take EC on stealers, only if you're using them in a non-gaunt army.

You can just shoot through the gaunts however.


Biovores now get an amazing 3 small-blast template shots of weak STR for 150+ points and due to them still requiring synapse they might not be firing at all anyway.
Admittedly their ld is bad, but they have brood telepathy, so don't need to be in synapse...


And you can't argue that they give nearby units a 3+ to hit in combat, because you could use those 80 points to buy Adrenal Glands for those broods which work for the WHOLE unit.
Tendrils affect the whole unit as well...


(Wow, Crushing Claws for +0.5 more attacks, only 25 points!)
+1.5 A...

-Wez

boogle
01-06-2005, 15:51
well in fact in the title of each unit description you can read either 'Brood of XXX' or just 'XXX'

for example : 'hive tyrant, carnifex, zoantrope, lictor'... but 'brood of raveners, brood of gaunts, brood of biovores' (so yes bioviores are brood).

my opinion is that maybe only the units entitled 'brood of XXX' in the list are subject to IB tests (well, except for warriors).

and by the way, 'fearless' gives immunity to moral and pining test, but not to LD tests in general (and IB is just described as a LD test).

biovores are not subject to IB, they act like Stealers in that respect, the easiers way to get round the Zoanthrope problem is to keep the 3 near each other and give on the Synapse power

hastur
01-06-2005, 16:06
of course biovores are not subject to IB (it's clearly set in the 'brood telepathy') but IMHO, carnifex/zoans/lictors are not subject to IB either because they're not described as 'broods', and only broods seem to be affected.
and not because they are fearless (lictor/carni)...
but I was just wondering if this explanation, based upon the exact formulation of the entries name in the list, was not a bit farfetched...

t-tauri
01-06-2005, 16:29
of course biovores are not subject to IB (it's clearly set in the 'brood telepathy') but IMHO, carnifex/zoans/lictors are not subject to IB either because they're not described as 'broods', and only broods seem to be affected.
and not because they are fearless (lictor/carni)...
but I was just wondering if this explanation, based upon the exact formulation of the entries name in the list, was not a bit farfetched...
Instinctive Behaviour seems to clearly state "broods" and refers to "lesser Tyranid creatures" being affected by it so I'd actually agree with that

Mr Evil
01-06-2005, 17:26
Hiding Genestealers behind broods of gaunts, warriors, raveners, gargoyles, etc will make it difficult for opposing forces to pass shooting checks on them.

Large broods of cheap gaunts (24+) which are in synapse range tend to be difficult to destroy in 1-2 rounds of HtH, and there would probably be some other units involved as well (Ravs/Gargs).

Crushing Claws only adds +0.5 attacks, not +1.5. You have to take into account the Scything Talons it is replacing due to it taking up a bioweapon slot. So you're paying 17 points for half an attack. CC would be nice if you could get D6 shots with a Venom Cannon, but sadly you're not allowed as the whine from SM players would burst your ears.

Yes Biovores ignore IB, but they also have LD5. If they get shot by any skimmer/indirect ord. (since they'll be hiding somewhere) they're going to be running away for the rest of the game.

Scythe
01-06-2005, 17:44
well in fact in the title of each unit description you can read either 'Brood of XXX' or just 'XXX'

for example : 'hive tyrant, carnifex, zoantrope, lictor'... but 'brood of raveners, brood of gaunts, brood of biovores' (so yes bioviores are brood).

my opinion is that maybe only the units entitled 'brood of XXX' in the list are subject to IB tests (well, except for warriors).

and by the way, 'fearless' gives immunity to moral and pining test, but not to LD tests in general (and IB is just described as a LD test).

Biovores are mentioned as Biovores, and not as Brood of Biovores if I remember correctly, tough I'm not entirly sure.


Hiding Genestealers behind broods of gaunts, warriors, raveners, gargoyles, etc will make it difficult for opposing forces to pass shooting checks on them.

More difficult, yes, but not impossible. Several armies will have no problems with target priority at all (think chaos marines, where practically every unit will have Ld10, or space marines lead by a Ld10 commander). All in all, 4 pts on top of a 16 pts model is not too shabby for some extra protection.

Lictors are fragile, yes, but then they always were. A 3rd edition Lictor couldn't survive combat against a marine tactical quad, and a 4th edition one can't either. Tough they lost a wound, Lictors appear now precisely were they are needed (and even in the enemy deployment zone, extremely handy improvement), without becomming reductant because the opponent is ignoring that piece of terrain he's 90% sure of your Lictor is hiding. They also offer a reroll on reserve rolls, which is very usefull, can use their new deploy rules to attack the rear of tanks more easily, and use their feeder tendrils to coattack with another large gaunt brood. Quite flexible, tough this comes at a price.

I do agree on Biovores. They have been tomed down a bit. However, with practically all the other choices in the codex really valid (as are most of the biomorphs), the nids got a lot more diverse and fun to play. And Biovores are not totally worthless, they still got their uses (bio-acid benefits quite from the new blast rules in my opinion).

Wez
01-06-2005, 17:58
Hiding Genestealers behind broods of gaunts, warriors, raveners, gargoyles, etc will make it difficult for opposing forces to pass shooting checks on them.
Most armies have nigh enough ld for this to not really affect them. Even poor ld (7) will pass most of the time.


Crushing Claws only adds +0.5 attacks, not +1.5. You have to take into account the Scything Talons it is replacing due to it taking up a bioweapon slot. So you're paying 17 points for half an attack.
Not what you originally said however: "(Wow, Crushing Claws for +0.5 more attacks, only 25 points!)"


CC would be nice if you could get D6 shots with a Venom Cannon, but sadly you're not allowed as the whine from SM players would burst your ears.
The idea that having a pair of claws making your weapon fire faster is amusing to say the least...

Still, I agree that the Carnifex/biovore is now worse, while the lictor doesn't appear (not used it yet…) to be that balanced either. Despite that, I much prefer the new nids to the old ones, seeing as gargoyles/ raveners/ tyrants/ zoanthropes/ genestealers/ gaunts now seem more 'balanced' (even with just minor changes).

-Wez

M@L@L
01-06-2005, 18:30
Just a wee question. I'm planning on using custmoised creatures where possible in my army and since I have yet to get the dosh together to by the £150 army deal, I have but one question. What biomorphs can the hormagaunts take including weapon options? I don't want to take normal hormagaunts as like I said I want my army to look customised, but at the same time I'm hoping they get more than just adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Cheers for any help.

Mr Evil
01-06-2005, 18:47
Just a wee question. I'm planning on using custmoised creatures where possible in my army and since I have yet to get the dosh together to by the £150 army deal, I have but one question. What biomorphs can the hormagaunts take including weapon options? I don't want to take normal hormagaunts as like I said I want my army to look customised, but at the same time I'm hoping they get more than just adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Cheers for any help.

Sorry, you're pretty much stuck with Glands and Toxin Sacs. You could pose them differently though (Soften plastic with hairdryer, bend 'em).

I suppose you could try to get Genestealers into combat via a wall of Carnifexes. Put 3-5 of them in a line and march them forward. Once your speedy units hit HtH rush the 'stealers past the slow TMCs.

OR just wait for the Chapter Approved seeding swarm list.

M@L@L
01-06-2005, 19:04
What about flesh hooks, can they take those? I think I rmember someone saying they could but just want to make sure. It would at least help to make them look a little meaner if they could.

Scythe
01-06-2005, 19:06
Just a wee question. I'm planning on using custmoised creatures where possible in my army and since I have yet to get the dosh together to by the £150 army deal, I have but one question. What biomorphs can the hormagaunts take including weapon options? I don't want to take normal hormagaunts as like I said I want my army to look customised, but at the same time I'm hoping they get more than just adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Cheers for any help.

You can also get extended carapace and flesh hooks, but other than that, nothing spectacular. However all of them come at a reasonable price (with the possible exception of the extended carapace, which is not that usefull) so will probably be seen more in the future. And WS5 hormagaunts are pretty sweet.

M@L@L
01-06-2005, 19:32
So I'm guessing they come with ws4 as standard now. Sweet as. Still gonna boost them to ws5 though.:D As I'm taking two units of them I might just have one with flesh hooks, adrenal glands and toxin sacs. Hide that unit behind extended carapace hormagaunts and robs your fathers brother. ;) Shame I'm gonna need a $h!t load of warriors to make my flesh hookers (interesting name, might use it, lol) though.

I find that the warrior head with the barbed tongue could prove useful in both filling out the numbers and adding a bit of variety as they could represent unextended flesh hooks. If I take three full squads of warriors then I can easily knock up a full unit of flesh hooker gaunts, but that would mean sacrificing either the broodlord I plan on buying or the lictors which are apparently hella cool. Decisions decisions...:D

I take it warrior squads no longer have the option of being fully equipped with heavy weapons, thus making them heavy support?

boogle
01-06-2005, 19:40
yeah but Zoans can nullify the IB behavior by taking the synapse biomorph

Scythe
01-06-2005, 20:11
I take it warrior squads no longer have the option of being fully equipped with heavy weapons, thus making them heavy support?

Nope, I'm afraid not. Shame, cause Barbed Stranglers on warrior broods just became quite attractive (longer range, higher S, better AP and pinning, for no price change).

The Beast
02-06-2005, 12:02
Can they take 2 heavy weapons though? Please say yes even if it's a lie otherwise I gotta redo some models...

Wez
02-06-2005, 12:04
Can they take 2 heavy weapons though? Please say yes even if it's a lie otherwise I gotta redo some models...
Heavy weapons? They can't take any heavy weapons.

They can take 2 ranged weapons though but only fire one per turn, although you can still only take one barbed strangler/venom cannon per brood.

-Wez

The Beast
02-06-2005, 12:17
I meant how many VC's and barbed stranglers a unit can have.

cyndre
02-06-2005, 12:37
Well, he answered that, one Venom Cannon OR Barbled.

boogle
02-06-2005, 13:02
not too sure, i believe they can take one of the weapons and another ranged weapon, and can fire them both, but not sure about 2 heavy weapons

Wez
02-06-2005, 13:06
not too sure, i believe they can take one of the weapons and another ranged weapon, and can fire them both
No they can't fire both. End of story.

-Wez

boogle
02-06-2005, 13:09
try reading your rule book before mouthing off (i point you to page 55 in case you can't find it)

Scythe
02-06-2005, 13:24
Any normal model that's not a tank or monstrous creature (or has any extremely cool special rule that doesn't excist yet) can only fire 1 weapon a turn, no mather it's kind (heavy, assault, rapid fire etc.) That doesn't prevent you from taking multiple ranged weapons on warriors, true, but it's a huge waste of pts. And, like said, a maximum of 1 venom cannon/ strangler per brood.

Wez
02-06-2005, 14:29
try reading your rule book before mouthing off (i point you to page 55 in case you can't find it)

Uh-huh. Warriors aren't monstrous creatures, or tanks, nor do they have some special rule allowing them to fire two weapons.

Just to make it even clearer, the nid codex says "Warriors with two ranged weapon-symbiotes may only fire one per turn."

End of story now?:p (Yes, I do have the Nid rules in front of me , hence the fact I stated "No they can't fire both." as a fact, rather than an opinion;))

-Wez

Soul of Iron
02-06-2005, 15:03
I have the Nid 'dex in front of me as well. And Wez is correct.

You got served!!!! :D

Sorry, I couldn't help my self.

M@L@L
02-06-2005, 19:11
Are any of the monstrous creatures able to take more than one ranged weapon? Not counting twin linked devourers and deathspitters of course.

Lion El Jason
02-06-2005, 20:09
yep both the tyrant and the fex can have 2 ranged weapons. You can also take 2 twin linked devourers for a fex or tyrant.

I'm using the 'fex devourer arms for my tyrant I think...

Negafex
03-06-2005, 00:52
can the warriors still be HQ in the new dex? and if so do they get any special privaliges, options, or abilities?

Wez
03-06-2005, 01:20
can the warriors still be HQ in the new dex?
Yes


and if so do they get any special privaliges, options, or abilities?

No

-Wez

cyndre
03-06-2005, 02:19
Darned week, will it end so that the codex can hit the shelves? :cries:

Nurgling Chieftain
03-06-2005, 04:53
Just for that, I'm stretching the week out another two days! Hahahahahahah!

cyndre
03-06-2005, 14:50
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Not the dreaded 4-thursday week!
Hell's gonna break loose.

Hmm, bit off topic, i went to a store for a peek, and i was very pleased of what i saw.
The more options, the better, even if they're not always good.

Scythe
03-06-2005, 17:33
But that's the great thing about the new codex in my opinion. Tyranids don't have that many extra options (actually they lost quite a bit; mutations, and several biomorphs on warriors and gaunts in particular). However almost every option still in the list is viable and quite worth its points, unlike most things in the 3rd edition dex. Hence I suspect we will see a lot more diverse and interesting nid armies.

overload
03-06-2005, 18:11
oooh cant wait to get the codex tomorrow, ill plobably be reading up on the options i can take out with my army then re-reading it for another two week, nice review of the dex!

Zabuza
03-06-2005, 19:47
Yeah I can't wait to get my codex in...three weeks. Dang. I knew I shouldn't have gotten that job at camp!

*shakes fist at the heavens*

-Zabuza-

overload
03-06-2005, 21:34
lol ive just finished school with only my exams left to do so ill be dedicating my time to my nid army and finding a job to pay for this army, definitely worth it though! By the way is there only two special characters for the nid army, old one eye and i forget the others name "damn my infernal memory", m not too fuusy about special characters but was curious.

t-tauri
03-06-2005, 21:52
No special characters in the new codex. So Old One Eye and the Red Terror are gone. Probably doing some revision for their GCSEs. ;)

boogle
03-06-2005, 22:39
but their rules were incorporated into the new dex in the form of Regen and Cruching Claws for Fexes and Deep Strike for Raveners

Negafex
04-06-2005, 01:32
how many vc will i be able to put in my Warrior HQ squad of 9 using the new dex?

Snorphel
04-06-2005, 05:43
I am happy with the new codex - though I will miss the red terror - but I guess that I will still be able to use it now and then - straight from the old codex - if my opponent agrees.

What is also very nice is the way upgraded (ws 5, i5, s4 etc.) hormagaunts can fill in the gap between standard gaunts and genestealers.
Also note that the rippers are back in town, with leaping, ws 4 and other nice options.

Lictors are a terror weapon anyways - so just keep them hidden as long as possible, and hope that your opponent's army deployment and movement gets messed up.

Too bad for the gargoyles; but to be honest, the main reason I gave them (now invalid) scything talons is that they look better this way. Cause there is only one legal option available, I guess that I can get away with 'count as' ruling anyway.

Soon... DA BOOK!

Scythe
04-06-2005, 10:16
but their rules were incorporated into the new dex in the form of Regen and Cruching Claws for Fexes and Deep Strike for Raveners

Old one eye can be easily recreated with the new rules on top of that. The Terror not, but there'll probably be some rules on the website or in wd in a few months.


how many vc will i be able to put in my Warrior HQ squad of 9 using the new dex?

The same amount as before, which means exactly one. Just split that unit into 2 or 3 units and take the units as elites for more cannons (and flexibility).

Eversor
04-06-2005, 10:16
how many vc will i be able to put in my Warrior HQ squad of 9 using the new dex?
Just the one :-( Heavy Support Warriors are no more...

Scythe
04-06-2005, 10:17
Just the one :-( Heavy Support Warriors are no more...

To bad isn't it? It would be great to field a whole unit of warriors with the new barbed stranglers....

overload
04-06-2005, 13:14
got the dex' today and am very happy with it, shame about red terror and old one eye' but
their rules are incorparated like boogle mentioned which is good, plus the options you can take out are pretty good.

blitz589
06-06-2005, 00:12
are spore mines small are large blast template

Brimstone
06-06-2005, 00:21
are spore mines small are large blast template

No all three types now now use the small template which gives some benefits and drawbacks.

Scythe
06-06-2005, 14:26
Well, basically frag and poison got slightly worse and acid got more predicatble. However the cluster firing serves for some greater accuracy which somewhat makes up for that.

The Beast
06-06-2005, 15:20
But the points cost does not reflect the usefulness of the vores. I know they were overpowered before since they would regularly make more than their points back. And if it were possible I would've fielded (is that a word?) 9 of them but now they seem just as strong as IG mortar squads. Except alot more expensive. A heck of alot better against vehicles though.

Scythe
06-06-2005, 18:21
Agreed. The drifting only makes spore mines slightly better than mortars. Altough I've not tried it game wise, Acid mines seem to me the only mines really worth it for biovores. They can destroy even the toughest vehicle with luck (something nids really can use) and burn trough power armour, which is extremely nice these days. Frag and Toxin are only effective against very specific targets.

blitz589
09-06-2005, 00:02
if im playing a large game, like 4k pts i might use the vores for acid, another fex just seems more logical.

The Beast
09-06-2005, 12:15
I guess they are the only shooting you can get that can pen av14 vehicles aside from the 18" range zoans.

Warpriest
09-06-2005, 13:02
If you take spore mine clusters as a fast attack choice, they deepstrike in. If they end up too close to or on top of an enemy model, will they explode, or do you just lose them like any other deep striker?

overload
09-06-2005, 17:08
i believe they explode if they are in 2" of an enemy model due to the spore mine picking up vibrations from the enemy unit.

Scythe
10-06-2005, 15:50
Indeed. There would not be much use for deep striking spore mines if you can't center them on an enemy without exploding, would there?

Warpriest
10-06-2005, 17:09
Indeed. There would not be much use for deep striking spore mines if you can't center them on an enemy without exploding, would there?
No, of course there wouldn't. But these are GW's rules after all. I don't expect them to make sense.

I checked the codex, it says they explode if they contact an enemy model for any reason. This should mean that they explode if they deepstrike into the enemy. But I can see this as being a situation where people will try to claim they're lost, and don't explode.

overload
10-06-2005, 19:05
how do you mean claim them lost?

Negafex
10-06-2005, 23:32
hey i gotta go off topic for a sec. i got the rulebook today and it says for some biomorphs that you may only take one. EX " ** a carnifex may only have one of these biomorphs" and that raises the question of can you give a creature more than one biomorph such as two enhanced senses or two toxin sacs ( for stuff other than the carni)?

blitz589
10-06-2005, 23:42
i doubt it, a fex hitting on a 3+, it dosnt seem like that would happen.

Nurgling Chieftain
11-06-2005, 00:24
Nagafex: You can only take a given biomorph once. The asterisks denote biomorphs that are exclusive of each other, forming a kind of "body slot" in which only one biomorph can be placed (mouth, back, tail).

Voss
11-06-2005, 07:19
A 'fex hitting on a 3+ can easily happen now.

adrenal glands take the WS up, and the Toxic miasma takes the foes WS down.
so a fex can easily hit marines, etc on a 3+. Admittedly, you don't get there from taking biomorphs more than once.

alternately, a fex can be within 2" of a model with feeder tendrils, and therefor get the preferred enemy bonus they convey.

Scythe
11-06-2005, 20:41
how do you mean claim them lost?

The standard deep stike rules say that if you must place a model within 1" of an enemy model while deep striking, it is lost (just like when your unit scatters of the table). Needless to say, this doesn't make much sense for spore mines.


adrenal glands take the WS up, and the Toxic miasma takes the foes WS down.
so a fex can easily hit marines, etc on a 3+. Admittedly, you don't get there from taking biomorphs more than once.

The really nice thing about this is that you can do this on an elite fex. A fex with 2x scything talons, adrenal glands (WS) and toxic miasma is 113 pts, making it possibly an elite, while having a nice 4 attacks hitting most things on 3s.

overload
13-06-2005, 21:19
The standard deep stike rules say that if you must place a model within 1" of an enemy model while deep striking, it is lost (just like when your unit scatters of the table). Needless to say, this doesn't make much sense for spore mines.

ahh right, thanks for clearing that up scythe :)

Jeru
15-06-2005, 04:06
I was looking at doing Crushing Claws / Rending Claws / Flesh hooks for 114 points for Elite Carnifex. What do u guys think about this?

I can see how putting miasma on them would be greatly beneficial, but for a 114 points and the pure capability of mass tank wrecking, not a bad idea as well.

Lion El Jason
15-06-2005, 09:41
I dont like crushing claws for a elite fex personally

I prefer tusks and 2x scy tals

cyndre
15-06-2005, 15:51
I personnally like for elite Fex 2 scything, Adrenals(WS), Spiney-carapace-thingy(one that count as frags and spinefist)

M@L@L
15-06-2005, 22:56
As my army is going to be a splinter fleet that got knocked off course by a warp storm and being deposited in the eye of terror( gotta love the forgotten fleets fluff:D), I'm gonna be taking lash whips, rending claws, acid maw and both adrenal glands for my elite fex's. For some reason I'm steered to basing the army on a slightly slaaneshi theme. I'm thinking of using the human like arms of the keeper of secrets for rending claws as the current plastic claws don't seem big enough for the new fex, plus it fits in well with the theme.

I've always thought of using the scything talon like claws from the current chaos spawn model on some nids and with the idea I got from the new dex, it will seem theasable due to how unatural they look. Some of my custom nid names would seem appropriate for this kind of swarm, like Catamite for example:D.

Scythe
16-06-2005, 07:18
I was looking at doing Crushing Claws / Rending Claws / Flesh hooks for 114 points for Elite Carnifex. What do u guys think about this?

I can see how putting miasma on them would be greatly beneficial, but for a 114 points and the pure capability of mass tank wrecking, not a bad idea as well.

Looking pure at the statistical odds, this is not that effective. D6 attacks equals 3.5 hits on average, while a carnifex with 2x talons gets 4 attacks. And that one can have toxic miasma as well.


As my army is going to be a splinter fleet that got knocked off course by a warp storm and being deposited in the eye of terror( gotta love the forgotten fleets fluff), I'm gonna be taking lash whips, rending claws, acid maw and both adrenal glands for my elite fex's. For some reason I'm steered to basing the army on a slightly slaaneshi theme. I'm thinking of using the human like arms of the keeper of secrets for rending claws as the current plastic claws don't seem big enough for the new fex, plus it fits in well with the theme.

Nice idea, cool theme. Altough I would really advice against acid maw. It's one of the worst upgrade available from the biomorphs. Not only that, but you also have rending claws (which are nice enough btw, keeping in theme), which negate the effect of your acid maw 1/6 of the time by causing an automatic wound. And an acid maw isn't that slaanesh like, is it?

M@L@L
16-06-2005, 22:16
Not really, in terms of rules, but look at the length of that tongue.:D I've decided to change my mind on my army theme as it just doesn't seem right. Not enough info on such things in the dex I guess.

Instead, I'm going for a leviathan splinter fleet which has evolved after the mass ork fighting in the Octavius system. Extended carapaces and bucket jaws all round.:D No elite fexes here. Rather, a super hard heavy support fex with both Adrenal glands, Bonded exoskeleton, Extended carapace, Regenerate, Reinforced chitin, Spore cysts, mace tail, Toxic miasma, Tusks, Rending claws and scything talons. Technically, a giant biovore.

I'm also thinking about having these fexes as a form of re-invasion after exterminatus in the armies fluff. Once the smoke has cleared, these super beasts would rise and start to produce spores containing the genetic code of different nids in the army, much like orks with their strange method of reproduction. Read the nid dex and see if you can find where I got that idea.:D

Cheitan Shadowless
16-06-2005, 22:51
Maybe I'll just steal your Slaanesh-'Nid concept, then... :p

More seriously, your new theme sounds sweet! I can just imagine these bulky behemoths unearthing themselves from the deep layers of ash, shaking it off as they snarl at the empty world and start trudging about, shedding spores in their wake as they occassionally join up with their scattered siblings. :cool:

Jeru
17-06-2005, 04:54
I was actually doing a semi chaos warped theme for my nids last edition. I'm building a Tyrant w/ Bloodthirster Wings, Scything Talons, and Claws from the Keeper of Secrets (rending). Bought some of the horn bits from the Fantast Chaos Dragon. Was gonna spike up his tail or something too.

Using codex grey for skin and regal blue for carapce, black for eyes/claws, and dry brush with ghostly grey (which they dont make anymore SOB, I hope I don't run out)

Mr Evil
17-06-2005, 12:43
Why does everyone mention putting rending claws on their MCs? I really don't understand. Firstly, their STR+2D6 is already enough to bring anything aside from a monolith down. Secondly, you're losing the Instant Death rule on 'fexes. A 6 will cause 1 wound, not instant death. So if you're hitting a character rolling 6s is a very bad thing with rending (when you could normally just need to roll a 2+ on the wound roll to kill them outright).

Jeru
17-06-2005, 15:42
a 6 is autowound, which still kills them outright~

Scythe
17-06-2005, 16:15
Jeru's right, instant kill is not affected. Rending claws may not seem very effective, but they are extremely cheap pts wise which is quite important if you are building an elite carnifex. That's why they are mentioned; not because they are the uber weapon of choice for the carnifex, but to save pts for biomorphs.

M@L@L
19-06-2005, 14:53
Exactly, cheap as chips and that's why I'm taking them.:D I know that they won't prove too beneficial, but with all that other stuff on top of my orkifex (not the name I'll be using:D) Who needs crushing claws. Besides, crushing claws are almost worse. At least you get all your attacks with rending. Due to my armies theme being changed to ork hybrids, I'm gonna need to think of something different for my carnis rending claws. I'm thinking of using either the top or bottom pair of arms from the =][= genestealer.

Scythe
19-06-2005, 16:52
Crushing claws are hardly better as scything talons and a lot more expensive, true. For an elite carnifex they are not a good choice. However I'm getting a single ultra close combat carnifex with as many biomrophs as I can put on him (costing something in the range of 250 pts in total). With such high pts cost already, I'm willing to pay the extra pts for crushing claws even if it's just .5 attack better as scything talons statistically speaking. Besides, I've put the crushing claws on the first limb slot and the talons on the second limb slot, which looks way better as the example carnifex in the codex. MIght not be the most effective pts investment, but it's just cool to have in 6000 pts Tyranids and it's going to be fun in carnage battles.

Brimstone
20-06-2005, 05:05
mmmmm carnifex army...

LimeLord if you're not going to contribute to the thread then don't post at all, spam is a strikeable offence.

This is a official warning do it again and you'll get a strike, earn yourself three and you'll be banned on a permament basis.

Avian
21-06-2005, 12:53
Don't know if it's been posted but there is a mention on p 143 of the most recent UK WD (307) that Old One Eye and the Red Terror will have rules up on the GW website sometime during July. :)

Scythe
21-06-2005, 13:03
Old One Eye as well? He can just be recreated with the current carnifex rules. Or maybe he will get some other regenerate rules...

Panophobia
21-06-2005, 13:03
Cool wonder how they'll work them into the fluff, now with no mutants...

Yea rending claws are just cheap only reason they get taken, i've found two talons does get mote attacks

Jeru
22-06-2005, 00:30
I thought they got absorbed back into the hive and thats why carnis can now Regen and use Crushing claws, and raveners can deep strike?

Scythe
22-06-2005, 08:16
That's the fluff behind the new abilities for raveners and carnifexes yes. But that doesn't mean that the models stop to excist. Those creatures were around sometime, and there are models of them, so that's reason enough to republish the rules for those people (like me) that still have those old models and can't use them anymore (well, the terror at least).

hivefleetcarrion
24-06-2005, 09:37
got my new carnie today, so far im thinking of spinebank, toxin sacs, regen, extra wound, better save,both adrenial glands,tusked, mace tail, bio plasma, and either 2X sky talons or sky talons and vc.......

for that point cost i would want to be able to finally spank some tau skimmers....now just got to work out a combination to kill bloodthristers and the nightbringer

i have the red terror and personally im happy that nids now have no special characters,more in line with the army, though its kinda disapointing that stranglewebs and spike rifles havnt been included. i mean those rules came out within the last year as ca approved rules and they arent included

Cheitan Shadowless
24-06-2005, 10:08
now just got to work out a combination to kill bloodthristers and the nightbringerGenestealers with Implant attacks work beautifully for me. Bloodthirsters are pushovers. :D

Bloodletters on the other hand... :mad:
Has anybody found an efficient solution against these underpriced blasphemies? I'm thinking of trying out a Warrior breed called 'Slayer' species; Warriors with nothing but Lash whips and Rending claws. The whips will drastically reduce the Bloodletters' attacks, and with a little luck, the claws will break down their armor.

Although...perhaps talons are just as good a choice - makes them a bit cheaper and I'll just have to rely on forcing them to take many 3+ saves, which may be better than relying on rolling 6's which they still have a 1/3 chance of negating.

*ponders*

[Edit: My apologies to the admins/mods/ruinous powers. I'll take this to the Tactics thread right away.]

Scythe
24-06-2005, 15:28
got my new carnie today, so far im thinking of spinebank, toxin sacs, regen, extra wound, better save,both adrenial glands,tusked, mace tail, bio plasma, and either 2X sky talons or sky talons and vc.......

for that point cost i would want to be able to finally spank some tau skimmers....now just got to work out a combination to kill bloodthristers and the nightbringer

i have the red terror and personally im happy that nids now have no special characters,more in line with the army, though its kinda disapointing that stranglewebs and spike rifles havnt been included. i mean those rules came out within the last year as ca approved rules and they arent included

A carnifex is not that suited for bloodthirster killing...but going against these, take implant attack.... Genestealers are optimal for these things, including bloodletters. Just throw enough stealers and gaunts at them, and hope they die....

hivefleetcarrion
26-06-2005, 05:51
oh i always take implant attack, my friends have habiits of taking lords+ big nasty things(dreads, bloodthirsters, ect) that usually kill my carnis before they get to attack, and after that catalyst is kinda of useless(150+ points dead its not going to makes its attacks back even if it could attack back :( )

also my friends now knows not to let a carnifex/ht get into hth with his berskers :(

Scythe
27-06-2005, 08:40
Which is quite smart, acctually. ;)

Seriously, you shouldn't just tool your carnifex for hth killing. His limited speed makes it very difficult to get his pts back this way, unless it concerns an objective based game were you can just go sit on the target spot with a 5 wound T7 regenerating close combat monster. For other games, just invest in ranged weapons first. A venom cannon or barbed strangler backed up by a twin-linked devourer and maybe spine banks makes a nice shooty carnifex which can earn it's pts back without arriving in combat.

Take some genestealers, hormagaunts or raveners for serious combat; they have the speed to arrive were you want them too, and tear pretty much any opposition to pieces, especially stealers.

hivefleetcarrion
28-06-2005, 07:11
still thinking on what would be a better gun on the carnie.... spine banks are a given, but bs or vc? i currently have a 3rd ed and 4th ed carnie to make so i guess it doesnt really matter with way i go with arming it up, vc looks promising as atleast i will have a decent chance to glance those pesky land raiders/ monoliths

charlie_c67
28-06-2005, 11:42
Strength 10 VC or strength 8 IIRC barbed strangler, not got my dex in front of me but I'd go for the VC. Excellant tank killer.

zealousheretic
28-06-2005, 18:52
I like giving my carnifexes at least some CC ability (It's a fluff thing for me. Carnifexi are supposed to have claws, effective or no!), but having tried a 'fex like this out, I'm really liking a combination of twin-linked devourers, spine banks, and scything talons. The range on the devourers gives it something to do as it advances, and it's no slouch should it make combat either. Most importantly, it's not all that expensive.

Venom Cannon carnifexi are still going to be all but mandatory (as so many people style themselves tactical genuises for taking lots of tanks against Tyranids), though the double-cannon variety aren't as good as they used to be.

The big thing about the cannon is that it's not likely to kill tanks. Sure, it'll happen now and then, but chances are that it'll essentially pin them; normally all I want it to do is prevent them from shooting for a turn.

Auzu
28-06-2005, 19:07
It seems like this discussionwould fit better in tactics than in rumours.

Thank you.
Thread closed.