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John1979
21-08-2009, 17:31
Now I'm new to this stuff and have never played Space Hulk before, so try not to curcify me if this is a stupid question.

Is it possible to use other races in Space Hulk? ie can the Terminators be boarding an orky space hulk for example.

Thanks

snottlebocket
21-08-2009, 17:35
Now I'm new to this stuff and have never played Space Hulk before, so try not to curcify me if this is a stupid question.

Is it possible to use other races in Space Hulk? ie can the Terminators be boarding an orky space hulk for example.

Thanks

You'd have to make up your own rules. Space hulk doesn't use 40k rules so it's not just a matter of using a different statline.

Souleater
21-08-2009, 17:35
No reason why not.

Just as long as you keep to the balance of the game, i.e. vicious hand to hand vs shooty.

HsojVvad
21-08-2009, 17:36
Yeah shure why not? Or do you mean legally? I never played SH so I am thinking here. I am assuming the rules are for only Termintors and Genestealers only.

But I can't see why you don't house rule it that you use Orks instead of Genestealers. Not shure if the point costs are the same or not, but just house rule it but make shure the orks have close to the same stats as Genestealers or who ever you replace Terminators with.

shin'keiro
21-08-2009, 17:53
Yes of course.. when space hulk was produced before, GW also produced a gaming magazine called 'The Journal' - each month it would have rules for different races in it such as Harlequins, Orks, Guard etc... I'm hoping they will do the same for this new version.

You can still download some of these rules online... google it. (although im not sure if they would be compatible with the latest edition rules.)

Edit:

HARLEQUINS
RULES http://www.geocities.com/harood.geo/h-shulk.htm
GW PLAYSHEET http://www.geocities.com/harood.geo/h-sh-ps.jpg

HULK COLLECTION
http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/mirrors/shc/

ArtificerArmour
21-08-2009, 18:31
I reckon daemons would be pretty cool, especially daemonettes

Ben
21-08-2009, 21:43
The easiest other race to bring in is Chaos. I've knocked some rules together but I wouldn't want to put them out until after the release and I've had a chance to read the new rules.

Combi weapons will give an interesting twist to standard terminators.

However I think we should be careful about expanding too quickly.

Giving this new edition a few weeks to bed down, and we will start expanding it with extra missions.

The easiest things to port in are Chaos Terminators (very few changes) and mega armoured nobs.

rkunisch
21-08-2009, 23:00
In principle it works. In old times they provided rules for power armoured Space Marines to go in instead of Terminators. It kind of worked, but you will easily find that Terminators are much better suited for the job. :p

With that in mind, it is possible to substitute one or both sides, but it is difficult to balance it (with the exception of the obvious substitutions like the Chaos Terminators or Mega Armoured Nobs).

Have fun,

Rolf.

Ben
22-08-2009, 01:05
The Space Hulk Campaigns book has been loaded to the resources thread, in that you will find the old Chaos rules and the old marines in power armour rules, along with four more multi-mission campaigns.

Christine
22-08-2009, 13:47
Heck you used to be able to assault the hulk with guardsmen! Now that takes balls of purest brass!

As ever with the other races these rules are avilable online and thats why I'm putting together genestealer hybrids atm!

shin'keiro
22-08-2009, 16:25
The Space Hulk Campaigns book has been loaded to the resources thread, in that you will find the old Chaos rules and the old marines in power armour rules, along with four more multi-mission campaigns.

resources thread?

AndrewGPaul
22-08-2009, 17:30
Heck you used to be able to assault the hulk with guardsmen! Now that takes balls of purest brass!!

The guy who wrote that article Did Not Do The Research (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch) - the Guardsmen rolled 1D6-1 in melee, compared with the Power Armoured Space Marines, who rolled 1D6-2 (or 1D6-3 if they had the misfortune to be carrying a heavy weapon).

AndrewGPaul
22-08-2009, 17:33
resources thread?

The one Ben put up, and promptly was removed for copyright violation.

Having said that, I've seen links to websites hosting Space Hulk stuff copied from the books (one of which has every campaign from both editions of the game, Space Hulk Campaigns, White Dwarf and the Citadel Journals), and they seem to be fine. Go figure.

Ben
22-08-2009, 17:40
Yes I got a warning for that.

I've PM'd the mod in question asking if I edit out the OOP Space Hulk stuff, if it can be reinstated, because there were some tutorials on painting, board projects etc.

Cpt. Drill
23-08-2009, 01:21
There used o be a pdf with alternate races with points values for different units and suggested number of points to be spent for each scenario. This included Chaos (with Demons), Orks, gaurd and Eldar. I cant find this anywhere on the net.

I would love to see some Necrons show up... Maybe with some standing up rules?

Znail
23-08-2009, 09:48
You just need to increase your googling skills to find the rules.

As for Necrons, so would Warriors basicly be the same as Tactical Marines, possible a further penalty in assault for a weak WBB rule. Maybe the old style WBB with stand up on 6 and removed on 1. Immortals would pretty obviously get stormbolters but melee like Tac Marines. Hmm, Lord could be similar to a Sergeant, but with better 3d6 shooting. Other únits sounds a bit more complex and more messy for balance. Maybe making a Wraith exactly like a LC terminator. Its not too difficult to make up rules if you work from some excisting unit and then modify it slightly. Just keep any changes in mind when assigning a point cost. There were costs for all units in the old rules. Easist will obviously be to just use counts-as and use rules for excisting units. The rules are pretty abstract so its not that big a stretch.

samiens
23-08-2009, 11:02
In most cases its easiest to counts as units (chaos marines only need a model that looks a bit like a thunder hammer termie and a reaper as an assault cannon) but home brew is pretty easy to be fair- but in some cases would lose the fine tuned gameplay

Ancelyn1331
23-08-2009, 16:04
Chaos Space Marines could (in the originally released version) be used as a a replacement for the Space Marines or the Genestealers. Marine vs Marine games added a whole new dimension to the game.

mweaver
24-08-2009, 11:36
Since I have a fair number of regular marines and a ton of Guard, it might be fun to try them a bit once I have learned the rules.

doghouse
24-08-2009, 17:00
Regular marines used to be great fun but they did have a habit of gettng butchered in hand to hand combat.

yabbadabba
24-08-2009, 17:10
We used to run suffocation rules for Guard due to atmosphere issues on Hulks deep in space - roll a d6 for each guard model on the board. On a 1 roll again and if the second roll is a 1 remove as the model suffocates.

Flashlights gave 'stealers a save.

Guard d6-3 in combat.

That sort of thing.

Christine
24-08-2009, 17:45
I personally like the idea of using guard in spacehulk but IMO the problem is finding suitable models. Personally I want my guardsmen in space suits!

de Selby
24-08-2009, 17:51
Old style enclosed-suit storm troopers (or are they new style again? The ones with rebreather 'snouts') would do the job I think?


I've got the models to do daemons (assorted) versus Grey Knights. Should function in a very similar way to stealers versus termis, with a few tweaks.

AndrewGPaul
24-08-2009, 20:52
The rules for Grey Knights were, as I recall, evil - you had a squad of 5 4th-level psykers, each with a big-ass force weapon.

zedeyejoe
24-08-2009, 20:54
We used a few packs of Space Hulk to game exploring a Necron tomb. Use any 40K army (but without vehicles) to following rules

Basic Rules

Normal 40K rules apply but we will be using Space Hulk tiles for movement. Only one active figure can occupy a square.

Each Space Hulk square counts as 4 inches, so a rapid fire weapon will have a range of 3 squares. You can move diagonally between squares but do not do so for shooting.

A figure may make 3 actions a move. An action is; move, open/shut a door, shoot or un-jam a weapon. A round of combat takes place at the end of each move if figures are in contact.

If you fire and roll a '1' to hit, your weapon is jammed and cannot be fired again until cleared.

Doors and walls block line of sight and cannot be shot through.

Move sequence

Move each of your figures its complete move before going onto the next.
Once you have moved all your figures, then any combats are fought.
Then onto the next players turn

If a combat is won and the opponent killed, the winning figure can move one square and fight again if they end in combat.

Reimu
24-08-2009, 22:03
I don't see much point in adding other races.

Space Hulk is the world's greatest ALIENS rip-off/satire, and for me it defeats the purpose of the whole thing. Space Crusade was a game that, to memory, included Space Marines, Chaos, early concepts of the Necrons, Orks and Tyranids.

neXus6
25-08-2009, 04:24
I personally like the idea of using guard in spacehulk but IMO the problem is finding suitable models. Personally I want my guardsmen in space suits!

Storm troopers are about as close as you can get with GW models, but there are numerous other companies who do 28mm models in space suits, hazmat suits and all sorts of things.

That's what I was thinking of getting for making a sort of early imperium hulk investigation team. Being real-scale rather than heroic would also probably make the Terminators, if used aswell, even more impressive in stature. While the size of the stealers in comparison don't really matter as they are aliens.


We used to run suffocation rules for Guard due to atmosphere issues on Hulks deep in space - roll a d6 for each guard model on the board. On a 1 roll again and if the second roll is a 1 remove as the model suffocates.

Flashlights gave 'stealers a save.

Guard d6-3 in combat.

That sort of thing.

I like the suffocation rule, but I think I'd make it a test when opening a door to see if the next area is decompressed.

Stealers getting a save is fine. d6-3 is actually brutally bad, as it's 1-4 = 1, 5 = 2, 6 = 3. I think D3 would be bad enough. :D

On the ADVANTAGE side however, as you can't just make them rubbish, I've been thinking of things like as they are much less armoured than even a space marine, allow a firing model to shoot over 1 friendly guardsman/trooper. Basicly just to signify that they are smaller and more mobile, so can crouch or press up against the wall while a squad mate opens up aswell.

I was only really thinking of going as far as making rules for human rather than astartes teams, and maybe chaos. I don't really need orks, eldar, tau...


I don't see much point in adding other races.

Space Hulk is the world's greatest ALIENS rip-off/satire

That's why I want rules for normal humans, it's all well and good when you're a bioengineered freak in tactical dreadnought armour, but when your a squaddie with a space suit and a rifle... :eek:

Ironmonger
25-08-2009, 05:21
Those-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named in Exo-armour:D:angel:

Christine
25-08-2009, 07:38
Hehehe I have to say if I was a space dwarf then genestealers would be even more terrifying - you'd spend your whole time in close combat punching them in the kneecaps!

Znail
25-08-2009, 10:03
Quite frankly, you may as well simply things and say that IG are killed automaticly by Stealers and make the game faster, or perhaps roll a d6 and let him live on 1 and then if he is lucky the Stealer is out of AP.

Souleater
25-08-2009, 21:09
I'd simply swap one lot of shooty people for Terminators and one lot of bitey people for other...bitely people.

I just don't get the point of messing around with the sides. The crux of the game is that one side is great at shooting but dies in HTH while their opponent is the polar opposite.

I mean Harlies vs Genestealers...I can understand Harlies vs Hybrids (that would be a very funny turning on the head) but what the frak is the point of putting two lots of HTH specialists against each other?

Eh?

Mmmhhphhh.

Gah.

/rant off

AndrewGPaul
26-08-2009, 07:45
That's sort of my opinion. Unless you plan to run games with Terminators and Marines and Guard, I don't think you need different stats for each - just use the regular rules and simply change the playing pieces.

Jagged
26-08-2009, 10:52
Agreed.

Although I enjoyed the Genestealer game and hybrids with conversion beamers, rocket launchers and assault cannons the game lost something by their inclusion. Mainly the speed and cleanness of it!

Venkh
06-09-2009, 16:05
Eldar warp spiders would make good opponents for genestealers. Faster, better at shooting but worse than a marine in H2H. The exarch could weigh in with his upgrades and help out a little as well. Could be entertaining.

I agree that there is little point pitting melee units against each other

grimcrazy
06-09-2009, 17:49
inquisitors in terminator armour as modified librarians would be cool (and there are old models)

but anything else and you loose that 'band of heros in a dungeon' vibe that makes space hulk so cool.

Hellebore
07-09-2009, 04:28
Part of the problem is simply the lack of rules describing each side.

1D6 in combat for a terminator is a combination of:

Space marine combat skill
1st company veteran experience in melee
A power fist
Wearing terminator armour

That's all represented by 1D6

If you give other units similar values then ruleswise it looks really wierd. A guardsman with the same survivability as a space marine veteran in terminator armour carrying a powerfist?

As you've got a benchmark in that, everything else needs to scale with it. This is why I think non terminator equivalents should be using 1D3 in melee, or derivations thereof.

Terminator with power fist = 1D6
Space marine with combat knife = 1D3
Space marine sergeant with power sword and bolt pistol = 1D3+1 Parry
Sergeant with power fist and bolt pistol = 1D6
Guardsman/Guardian = 1D3-1

Striking scorpion/howling banshee = 1D6 Parry

etc

A storm bolter = 2D6 6+ to kill a genestealer thus everything else must be scaled to that.

That or you need to design more detailed rules to allow for differences between models. Treat the first roll as a to hit roll and roll again to wound or something.

Things like eldar aspect warriors would be faster and more manoeuvrable, with more APs and the ability to turn 180/strafe etc.

It gets a little silly when a guardsman strides into battle with close to the same melee and ranged capacity as a space marine terminator.

Hellebore

Gekiganger
07-09-2009, 07:25
I would love to see some Necrons show up... Maybe with some standing up rules?

When necrons were first appearing in white dwarf one of the scenarios was 'Mega armoured nobs vs da space ghosts' where they board a hulk full of 'crons iirc.


I don't see much point in adding other races.

Space Hulk is the world's greatest ALIENS rip-off/satire, and for me it defeats the purpose of the whole thing. Space Crusade was a game that, to memory, included Space Marines, Chaos, early concepts of the Necrons, Orks and Tyranids.


You champion it's ALIENS image yet don't agree with adding new races, like oh - say Imperial Guard? :wtf:

AndrewGPaul
07-09-2009, 07:37
I see his point - you have one side with overwhelming firepower and low numbers, who needs to keep moving to achieve their objective, against a foe with no firepower but overwhelming numbers, who can mass its forces to try to destroy the enemy. Adding other forces dilutes this image. Yes, adding Catachans makes a more superficial match to the original Aliens inspiration, but it's not necessary. If you want to make it look closer to the films, just swap the Terminator models for Imperial Guard models*. You only need different stats, IMO, if you're intending to run 'stealers, Terminators and Guard all together.

*Which is what I'm planning - got a pile of Horrorclix Aliens, and I've got some Kryomek Nexus marines for the USCMC.

Zenithfleet
07-09-2009, 10:31
That's the sort of thing I've been thinking about--keep all the rules the same, but change the flavour. Just replace the Marine models with other 'shooty' fellows and the Genestealers with 'melee' creatures of some sort. Ideally (and purely for fluff purposes) you'd want the power levels on both sides to be roughly the same. So replacing the Marine models with Guardsmen while keeping the opposing side as Genestealers doesn't make sense on a fluff level... but Guardsmen versus Hormagaunts does.

Of course you'd need to find suitable models to represent the flamer, assault cannon, Broodlord, etc.

And you don't necessarily have to be fighting aboard a space hulk either... in the grim dark future everybody has narrow corridors :)

A few that occurred to me:

Imperial Guard (Marines)
versus Hormagaunts (Genestealers)
in an Imperial base--"they're coming up from the basement sir!"

Inquisitors (Marines)
versus mutants and zombies (Genestealers)... or daemons
in a corrupted installation

Tau (Marines)
versus pretty much anything with sharp bits (Genestealers)

Gangers (Marines)
versus underhive vermin (Genestealers)
in the sewers of a hive city
(You could use Necromunda models for the gangers, and lots of different mindless animal monstrosities as the vermin... Necromundan hive spiders, giant rats, ripperjacks, milliasaurs--just count 'em all as 'stealers)

... and of course (if you go to certain other miniatures manufacturers) Colonial Marines versus Xenomorphs :p

grissom2006
07-09-2009, 10:33
I can see i'll be pulling out the old WD's with the respective rules in them

snottlebocket
07-09-2009, 15:59
There's not enough squares on all the floor plans in space hulk put together for the amount of guard needed for an average space hulk mission. There's a reason terminators do this stuff.

Gekiganger
07-09-2009, 16:11
There's not enough squares on all the floor plans in space hulk put together for the amount of guard needed for an average space hulk mission. There's a reason terminators do this stuff.

Swap guardsmen into the genestealer role of a periodic horde swamping in and x amount of *insert terminator equiv enemy of the imperium here*, or get more floor tiles, plenty of people will have friends with the hulk and i know people who've bought 2 for the extra tiles and to convert the terminators.

limiting what you can do with SH just because of floor tiles is disapointing, with that mentality Warhammer Quest would have got boring a long time ago, praise supplimentals.

Glabro
10-09-2009, 00:01
I'm really looking forward to seeing a well-done ork hulk conversion job. They might play well together with power armoured marines too, and are similar to genestealers in durability (so the same kill numbers work - orks are more resilient but Stealers are faster).

Of course, Meganobz clearing a hulk works well too. I'd keep them similar to Terminators, but remove the sustained fire bonus from weapons (and of course use the rules for missile launchers for rokkits) but let them get a universal +1 in close combat, and allowing them to roll two dice when they are the attacker in close combat.

Deus Mechanicus
10-09-2009, 03:15
If those plastic stormtroopers ever come out it would be nice to convert to space hulk if some suitable rules are found. Aliens anyone? Yes please. Putting out automated sentry guns mhmmm the ideas.

WildAnimal
10-09-2009, 10:12
Automated Sentry guns and Storm Troopers..Aliens movie running in the background... OMG that really is as good as old fashion Space hulk gaming.

Damn i just got a couple of ideas.... Would be nice to have Plastic Storm troopers for such a project.

yabbadabba
10-09-2009, 12:03
Why not Cadians and just go Stormship Troopers meets Aliens?

nedius
10-09-2009, 14:46
Space hulk is, alas, tuned to near perfection for a boardgame of this type. That's why it has such enduring popularity - I've seen people having a great time playing the Bugman's game - I just don't think that will last as long as SH will.

This, in a way, is the downfall of any extra rules, special characters etc. They break this perfect balance, tipping the edge too far one way and making it very hard to re-balance the oposition. I'm not syaing we shouldn't try, I just think we'll have to do so with the awareness that what we create may well be a nice change of pace, but ultimately a poorer version of the original.

For example, I'm trying to find a way of working termagaunts, lictors and warriors into it as part of a campaign. I've got some ideas of how it may work, but I don't expect that what I make will be an improvement, or even something anyone will want to use outside of a couple of special scenarios. Just a bit of a change.