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GrogsnotPowwabomba
24-09-2009, 18:09
"Genestealer attacks, ends in draw. Now, can the marine player use a command point to make a stormbolter attack, from the guy who was just assaulted, at that same genestealer?"

Yes, nothing says he can't - but he can't shoot if he was on overwatch as he loses overwatch when he is close assaulted.

I don't understand this. What does Overwatch have to do with using the CP?

I do agree, though, that you can shoot a Genestealer that just assaulted you by using a CP. You are spending the CP in reaction to the Genestealer's action of assaulting you. Seems perfectly legite.

reapy
24-09-2009, 19:46
Great, those seem to make sense. I was going to reread the close assault rules to make sure I wasn't missing anything, but wanted to see what other people thought.

He just mentioned overwatch I think to clarify that you are spending a command point, not taking a free shot, and that overwatch status goes away if it was there to begin with.

With the flames, it was also my interpretation that taking no actions and he could ride out the blaze, just seemed like I was missing something having that guy spend a round engulfed in a blaze standing still :)

Thanks again.

Yellow Commissar
25-09-2009, 04:46
I have a question regarding On Guard. If I use a command point during the Genestealer turn to shoot or assault, do I remain On Guard? Thanks in advance for any replies.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
25-09-2009, 17:06
I have a question regarding On Guard. If I use a command point during the Genestealer turn to shoot or assault, do I remain On Guard? Thanks in advance for any replies.

No, the rules state that if he carries out any other action he loses Guard status.

Guys, just read the rules and some of these things are very clearly stated!

mattjgilbert
26-09-2009, 09:42
Agreed.

The number of questions seem to be tailing off or the same ones repeated. It's probably time to publish the Q&A as v1.0. I'll get the sorted out and make a sticky on this thread.

One thing I did notice last night during a game (and might highlight in the Q&A) is that an involuntary blip conversion counts as an action and so marines can react to models appearing in their LOS (fire on overwatch, use CPs).

Patriarch
29-09-2009, 19:22
The official FAQ is out - not everything in MJG's FAQ is covered though.

I was right about the AC/doors/OW issue. ++Engage Smug Mode++ :D

wilsongrahams
29-09-2009, 19:42
You were, but this is easily countered by not sticking the AC on O/W. Else the stealer player will be opening and closing doors to use the ammo. The @%##rds...

mattjgilbert
29-09-2009, 21:08
I'll update our Q&A with the official answers...probably Thursday night. Tomorrow night is games night and I'm not missing that ;)

SausagePerson
30-09-2009, 19:54
I think this might have been asked before, but can a Terminator with a flamer shoot at a genestealer in the same section as him, and if he can, does the flamer affect him aswell?

Patriarch
01-10-2009, 12:25
I think this might have been asked before, but can a Terminator with a flamer shoot at a genestealer in the same section as him, and if he can, does the flamer affect him aswell?

Yes, and yes.

Xelloss
01-10-2009, 16:53
the FAQ says :

A. The Genestealers are placed one after the other,
starting in the square that contained the blip.
Must the stealers be placed on squares adjacent to the original position of the blip, or adjacent to any stealers previously placed of the blip ?

example :

xxxxBxxxx ; the blip is 3 stealers : can you do xxxxGGGxx, or must you do xxxGGGxxx ?

AndrewGPaul
01-10-2009, 17:01
All stealers placed must be in the square the blip was in, or one of the 8 squares adjacent to that square. Pretty sure that's in the rulebook.

40kbolter
01-10-2009, 17:04
cant seem to find the Warseer space hulk 3rd ed F.A.Q can anyone post a link please. thanks

wilsongrahams
01-10-2009, 18:26
The Warseer version hasn't been printed on here as the GW version was out first and the faults with that have taken over. Be patient and I'm sure it'll appear soon.

TheSil
02-10-2009, 08:28
Ok, I have a serious question now:

I have lately designed a map where ladders link three levels of the Space Hulk. This means that the ladder in the intermediate level, despite leading down can also lead up.

Now, in the rulebook it states that every time a Marine steps on a ladder that leads down, but also if he climbs up, he has to check for falling.

If you play it strictly by the rules then I guess if you intended to climb from the intermediate level to the upper level you have to test twice for falling, once for the ladder you are stepping on and once for the one you are climbing up, am I right?

Would you also play it this way or would you drop one of the two falling tests for the sake of giving the marines a higher chance of safely reaching the upper level?

Do you think this would need explicit clarification in the mission description? Because I completely forgot to test twice the first time I played and this thought only came to me way after that...



Currently I am leaning towards the "test twice" approach, because it can be fun if the Marine lands in a Genestealer den instead of climbing to the mission objective... On the other hand it sometimes makes it a bit rough for the Marines if you have to climb a lot of these ladders and suddenly having a 1 out of two dice is not that unlikely anymore... possibly ruining many plans of the Marine player



/edit: another ladder question...
If a Space Marine moves diagonally across a corner, and on this corner was a ladder, does he have to test for falling? Theoretically he does not step on the ladder, but would the ladder be a model it would block his movement, so I guess he has to somehow pass the ladder anyway... don't really know how to handle this either


And the third question about ladders I have right now:
If you successfully climb a ladder, do you get to choose your facing or do you have to look into the same direction than you did on the other level of the map? The rulebook only states that you keep your direction if you fall down...

AndrewGPaul
02-10-2009, 10:03
Personally, I'd stagger the ladders so that the up and down ladders from the middle level are adjacent, not on the same space.

If you check CRasterImage's "FAQ Plus" thread, there's a link to additional Q&A. Among those is the note that facing is irrelevant on a ladder space, and it does not change when you climb one.

Patriarch
02-10-2009, 11:20
If it's going to be a major feature of the game, how about incorporating a lift section? 1 AP/CP to operate the lift and immediately travel up or down 1 level. The marine's turn immediately ends, although if he has spare APs or CPs he may set overwatch (you never know what's waiting for you when the lift door opens...). Stealers can use the lift or climb the lift shaft like a ladder.

As to your question, I'd agree two tests. Climbing/descending are two different actions, and it seems reasonable that if a marine struggles with climbing safely, he is taking more of a risk when he is climbing for longer.

wilsongrahams
02-10-2009, 14:16
A marine tests ONCE to climb a ladder and is then on the top space. He does not count as entering it in this circumstance as he has already made the test to enter the top space. What you need to decide is if you keep your ladder across three levels will your marine fall all the way to the bottom or just one level. Two tests would be needed but I would make it one level per move anyway as he is going twice as far. I agree with the above post that staggering them would be an easier idea. I'd say a model keeps the facing he had when he climbed otherwise he is getting free turns from the APs spent to climb.

For entering on the middle floor, I think testing twice is harsh as it would be little different to a marine on the top stepping onto the ladder. If he fails he falls to the bottom, but if he passes he goes to the top.

jospoon
02-10-2009, 18:23
hi guys... need to consult with you space hulk masters here.

command points says can only be used during genestealers' turn if there is any genestealer that performed an action in line of sight of any terminators.
overwatch says must shoot if a genestealer performed an action within line of sight of the terminator on over watch.
both says after the genestealer model has completed an action and is resolved immediately before it is able to take another action.

Imagine this, if I have a terminator on overwatch and a genestealer came into line of sight of him, he fired and jam! failed to kill the genestealer. The same genestealer then move 1 square closer (still within line of sight of the terminator). I used a command point to turn the jam status to overwatch status. my question is can i immediately fire the same genestealer as part of the overwatch status since it has also just completed an action? or do i need it to take an action to activate the overwatch?

You guys know where I'm going here? :)

Vaaish
02-10-2009, 18:44
clearing the jam was your action in response to the stealers action. If the stealer moves again then you can shoot him using overwatch but you can't clear the jam and fire as part of the response to a single stealers action.

TheSil
02-10-2009, 19:16
A marine tests ONCE to climb a ladder and is then on the top space. He does not count as entering it in this circumstance as he has already made the test to enter the top space.
I know. But he also has to test if he steps on a ladder that leads down. So if he steps on a ladder on the intermediate or top level he has to test if he falls. If he avoids to fall he has the option to climb a ladder. If he climbs from intermediate to upper he would have to test again, because as you stated he has to test once per climb upwards.
Theoretically if he climbs down from upper level, and stops at intermediate he would also have to test again, since he comes to rest on a ladder leading down again (hm, haven't even thought of that yet)
I think the rules were not really intended for this situation since they were only written for a top (leading down only) and a bottom (leading up only) ladder.



What you need to decide is if you keep your ladder across three levels will your marine fall all the way to the bottom or just one level.
I have already decided that one, if he falls from top, he goes all the way down to bottom and kills everything in between. It seemed counterintuitive that a "falling" marine should suddenly stop in the middle of the fall... The higher they climb, the faster they fall :)




I agree with the above post that staggering them would be an easier idea.

Simply not an option for this map. I have to and want to go with three-story-high ladders.




For entering on the middle floor, I think testing twice is harsh as it would be little different to a marine on the top stepping onto the ladder. If he fails he falls to the bottom, but if he passes he goes to the top.
It would certainly make it easier for the Marines not having to take two tests.
I thought since Marines do not seem to be world-class climbers it could well be more difficult for them attempting to climb up a ladder that has already no solid ground beneath, as they would already risk to fall when trying to get a solid grip on the ladder and so on...
Well, I don't know...

Seems to boil down to a simple balancing issue...
Strictly rules-wise I guess they would have to test twice... according to logic and harshness of rules maybe they shouldn't

It can be fun though if they have to...
and its less a mess to clarify it in the mission... otherwise you would have to say:
"you have to test if stepping on a intermediate level ladder, however if you decide to climb it beforehand you have to take only one test, if you wait for this decision you have to take a second one..." which doesn't make much sense to me either...
If you don't do that a Marine could just step on a ladder, see if he falls and if not spend 2 AP without risk of falling to reach the upper level, since he has already done the test. If you turn it the other way round he would not be at risk of falling down a ladder if he does not intend to climb it

GrogsnotPowwabomba
02-10-2009, 21:27
clearing the jam was your action in response to the stealers action. If the stealer moves again then you can shoot him using overwatch but you can't clear the jam and fire as part of the response to a single stealers action.

Exactly. The simple way to think about it is that if you jam the Genestealer gets one free square of movement while you unjam.

mattjgilbert
02-10-2009, 22:14
cant seem to find the Warseer space hulk 3rd ed F.A.Q can anyone post a link please. thanks

Latest version was posted here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3952828&postcount=207

I'll be updating it with the official questions and answers this weekend.

mattjgilbert
03-10-2009, 19:11
The Q&A is updated and made into v1.0
I'm waiting for a mod to make it a sticky for this forum.

mattjgilbert
03-10-2009, 23:43
It's done. In case anyone didn't spot it, the document now lives here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223421

wilsongrahams
04-10-2009, 09:32
For the ladders, I imagine that the test isn't taken for the actual climbing but for stepping over the ladder or getting on and off it. If you've ever climbed a real ladder it's the getting on and off at the top that's hard. This would then mean, entering a ladder at bottom means no test as usual. Entering at middle level whether going up, down or just passing by means one test. Entering at top whether stepping over the hole or getting onto it means one test. If fail fall both floors. If already on the ladder in the middle floor after climbing down, if he stays on the ladder and is not entering the square anew, I would maybe let him continue down for free as he already did the hard part at the top. It also would help with remembering who had already entered a space in their previous turn and so would not test this turn. As mentioned it gets complicated because the rules don't account for more than one storey. The rules state to test whether stepping over, or stepping onto ladder and descending/climbing. This means there is no change in difficulty hence why I would probably now not test again for a marine already on the ladder unless you like falling marine's.

Xelloss
05-10-2009, 11:25
Another question (the friend with who I play always have some strange ideas) :
Can a terminator with chainfist can destroy an opened door, or must he close it beforehand ?

strewart
05-10-2009, 12:13
Another question (the friend with who I play always have some strange ideas) :
Can a terminator with chainfist can destroy an opened door, or must he close it beforehand ?

Same question came up in my last game... I just agreed to it and let him since it wasn't going to change much, but I don't know it doesn't really make sense to be able to attack a door when it is open.

wilsongrahams
05-10-2009, 15:05
I would say no because the door is hidden away inside the wall or something, unless he is distroying the controls in which case why can't a power fist guy jam a door? Does it actually make much difference? Probably not, so you could let him if he wants to waste time slicing up doors that are no longer in his way. I would assume that this is the same as shooting at open doors which is disallowed. I would agree with strewart and not do it myself but wouldn't argue if it was done against me either as it's not directly covered by the rules.

mattjgilbert
05-10-2009, 20:15
You can't attack an open door can you?

strewart
06-10-2009, 02:42
Eh, if it explicitely says you can't shoot at open doors then I would extend that to combat attacks as well. Again, not gamechanging enough for me to care either way, Space Hulk is a lot more about fun IMO.

Xelloss
06-10-2009, 10:28
if he wants to waste time slicing up doors that are no longer in his way

Actually this can be quite a smart thing to do, because an open door can be closed by the stealers to block LoS or prevent overwatch shooting... By destoying doors you can be free to set up some corridors of death with cross fires

wilsongrahams
06-10-2009, 11:08
Actually this can be quite a smart thing to do, because an open door can be closed by the stealers to block LoS or prevent overwatch shooting... By destoying doors you can be free to set up some corridors of death with cross fires

My point is that when you are already at the door - to close assault it - rather than at range by shooting it, destroying the door doesn't give you an advantage unless you plan to retreat afterwards as it is right next to you and not blocking a long field of fire - i shoot those ones.

Patriarch
06-10-2009, 12:37
Doors can be a hassle for the stealers as well as a bonus - they block LoS, but the lead stealer needs to waste an AP opening them, which usually means the stealers massing behind him also waste an AP as they take their place in the queue.

BTW does anyone do anything special to model the "locked" doors from Alarm Call? I was thinking of mounting the doors sideways in the stands, or does everyone just remember which is which?

Leeman Russ
06-10-2009, 15:59
...BTW does anyone do anything special to model the "locked" doors from Alarm Call? I was thinking of mounting the doors sideways in the stands, or does everyone just remember which is which?

I use spare Jam markers either side of the jammed doors (which go back into the pile once my friend has destroyed the door, which he likes to do an awful lot, jammed or not!)

Vattic
06-10-2009, 19:16
Most of my questions have already been answered in this thread but I'd like to clarify some points. All of these questions are from the genestealer players perspective.

At the start of your turn you can choose to voluntarily reveal a blip instead of moving it. Is it correct that you cannot move the voluntarily revealed genestealers until your next turn?

In the White Dwarf playthrough of the mission cleanse and burn on turn 8 it appears that 3 revealed genestealers are placed at the genestealer entry point instead of a blip. I thought placing the blip on the board counted as an action just like moving a square. Can I get some clarification?

If a blip is involuntarily revealed during the genestealers turn does each revealed genestealer get 6AP to spend or do you have to wait until your next turn to move them? (Turn 6 - 7 seem to show this with Lorenzo (6) and a 2 blip)

If I move a blip a number of squares and open a door involuntarily revealing it do the revealed genestealers get 6AP to spend or again is it a matter of waiting until your next turn?

A number of things confuse me concerning the cleanse and burn playthrough. On turn 3 the 3 blip seems to move into sight of Brother Valencio(2). On turn 6 another 3 blip seems to do the same in sight of Brother Leon(3). Am I missing something obvious here?

Cheers.

eriochrome
06-10-2009, 19:52
Voluntarely revealed genestealers are free to move provided the blip has not moved.

Genestealers my be placed at entry points instead of the blip but follow all the same rules as a blip for entering play (ie cannot enter on first turn if marine within 6 (must lurk).

Involuntarely revealed genestealers are not free to act even if the blip has not already moved. IE a blip behind a stealer who gets killed by an overwatch shot is revealed involuntarely so the stealers are stuck at that point.

Patriarch
06-10-2009, 20:10
At the start of your turn you can choose to voluntarily reveal a blip instead of moving it. Is it correct that you cannot move the voluntarily revealed genestealers until your next turn?
No, not correct. If the blip hasn't moved before you voluntarily revealed it, you can move the stealers once they have been placed in the same turn.

In the White Dwarf playthrough of the mission cleanse and burn on turn 8 it appears that 3 revealed genestealers are placed at the genestealer entry point instead of a blip. I thought placing the blip on the board counted as an action just like moving a square. Can I get some clarification?

You can place voluntarily reveal a blip when it is still at the entry area before it comes on the board. In this case the revealed stealers are placed in the entry area ready to move on. Moving on to the board (i.e. the square adjacent to the arrow) costs 1AP for a blip or a genestealer.


If a blip is involuntarily revealed during the genestealers turn does each revealed genestealer get 6AP to spend or do you have to wait until your next turn to move them? (Turn 6 - 7 seem to show this with Lorenzo (6) and a 2 blip)
No, you can move them as long as the blip itself hasn't moved yet.


If I move a blip a number of squares and open a door involuntarily revealing it do the revealed genestealers get 6AP to spend or again is it a matter of waiting until your next turn?

You have to wait. In fact, I don't think a blip is allowed to open the door in this case. If you intend to reveal the contents of a blip during its activation, you have to voluntarily reveal it first and the revealed stealers each get 6APs.


A number of things confuse me concerning the cleanse and burn playthrough. On turn 3 the 3 blip seems to move into sight of Brother Valencio(2). On turn 6 another 3 blip seems to do the same in sight of Brother Leon(3). Am I missing something obvious here?
No, the stealer which kills Valencio in turn 3 was voluntarily converted from the 1-blip which came on in turn 2. The 3 blip moves left to the objective room in turn 4.
Likewise the 3 stealers visible to Leon in turn 6 are converted from the 3-blip in the objective room in turn 5; the 3-blip around the corner is not the same one. Basically, the maps in the WD show the positions at the end of the turn, they don't show where the blips were at the beginning of the turn.

Vattic
06-10-2009, 20:11
Genestealers my be placed at entry points instead of the blip but follow all the same rules as a blip for entering play (ie cannot enter on first turn if marine within 6 (must lurk).

Firstly, thanks for clearing things up. A few last questions, if you place genestealers at an entry point instead of a blip are they free to move that turn like blips would be? If so do you place and move the genestealers one at a time or place them all at once like when revealing a blip and then move them?

Thanks again.

Patriarch
06-10-2009, 20:12
Involuntarely revealed genestealers are not free to act even if the blip has not already moved. IE a blip behind a stealer who gets killed by an overwatch shot is revealed involuntarely so the stealers are stuck at that point.

Not true. As long as the blip hasn't already been activated before it was revealed, the revealed stealers are free to move with all 6 APs.


Firstly, thanks for clearing things up. A few last questions, if you place genestealers at an entry point instead of a blip are they free to move that turn like blips would be? If so do you place and move the genestealers one at a time or place them all at once like when revealing a blip and then move them?

Yes, they are free to move (unless they have to lurk). You place all 3 stealers at the same time, but you activate them one by one. Note that you don't have to activate them as soon as you place them. For example, you might reveal a blip and place new stealers, then activate a stealer on the other side of the board, then go back and activate one of you new stealers, then move the broodlord, etc etc.

Vattic
06-10-2009, 20:31
Thanks to both of you for clearing everything up. I thought things were playing strange how I was doing it before.

mattjgilbert
06-10-2009, 21:12
BTW does anyone do anything special to model the "locked" doors from Alarm Call? I was thinking of mounting the doors sideways in the stands, or does everyone just remember which is which?You could just turn them 90 degrees in the square?

wilsongrahams
07-10-2009, 19:27
I place my doors in the holder at a 45 degree angle so they look all skewed and jammed. They are not a tight grip and removing them from the stand does not leave any indents so I don't mind doing this. As I have a second set of doors I may convert some to be damaged somehow...

Irish1983
12-10-2009, 22:31
I have played Space hulk a few times now and have since the first game begun to have a better command of the rules.

But I have one question:

Can you use sustained fire in the GS player's turn? I am fairly sure I can not automatically get a sustained fire bonus simply by having a Stealer move consecutively within a marines overwatch LOS (IE after reacting once and not jamming on further reactions from the same marine to the same GS). Can I spend a CP after reacting to a Stealers action to get sustained fire? If he moves a space towards me and I am on overwatch and have LOS I get to shoot at the Stealer I understand that, but can I then spend a CP to only shoot again or can I claim sustained fire? What about further reactions from the same marine to the same GS?

strewart
13-10-2009, 02:02
Yeah you can use sustained fire on overwatch, but it obviously only works on one stealer at a time. So one moves into LoS, you shoot at it with 6+, it moves again, you get 5+, it dies, next one moves into LoS you are back to 6+. Jamming will also halt your sustained fire.

It somewhat makes it too easy for the marines protecting a long corridor, but without it they are just screwed.

nedius
13-10-2009, 08:14
Just as an additional question on sustained fire on over watch.

A genestealer leaves LoS as it moves down a corridor, then re-enters it (for example, ducking into a junction to avoid getting shot at for one square of movement). Does sustained fire continue against this target, as it's the same 'stealer, or does it count as a new target and resets to 6?

strewart
13-10-2009, 08:19
I'd say it resets since you break their fire, they have to go a move without shooting.

AndrewGPaul
13-10-2009, 08:30
The FAQ linked to elsewhere on this forum (the one from BoardGameGeek) says otherwise, though. :)

wilsongrahams
13-10-2009, 09:29
I ignore the FAQ and drop the bonus as they never used to get it on overwatch anyway and it helps balance and gives the stealers a chance.

Irish1983
13-10-2009, 19:00
Ok reread the rules and ya it clearly states that on over watch you get sustained fire for every overwatch shoot fired at the same Stealer after the first witnessed action. So long as the Stealer doesnt break LOS or go out of range of the firing Marine.

@Wilson: Your kidding right? some missions I have played the Stealer player AUTO won by just hording 12+ around a corner and swarming over me without fail every single game. I dont have enough action points or command points to walk 3-4 sections around a corner and kill that many Stealers even with overwatch, period. Without sustained fire I never had a chance in hell to kill that many (try mission two with a Stealer player that just hordes in the north corridor). AS the Marine player yo HAVE to kill them all or clear the entries behind them. He doesnt have to come to you, and with the clarification that I CAN NOT spend a CP to shoot a Stealer as a reaction if I already have done so in overwatch. Thats a corridor the emperor isnt going to reclaim.

wilsongrahams
13-10-2009, 20:23
Sorry I will clarify - I mean I drop the bonus when they drop out of sight and then reappear even though it's the same stealer - I treat it as a newly emerging target as his aim was lost.

Though I did fine in 2nd ed without the sus fire bonus on overwatch...

It would be stupid NOT to use what we are given within what seems right.

Irish1983
13-10-2009, 21:51
Sorry I will clarify - I mean I drop the bonus when they drop out of sight and then reappear even though it's the same stealer - I treat it as a newly emerging target as his aim was lost.

Though I did fine in 2nd ed without the sus fire bonus on overwatch...

It would be stupid NOT to use what we are given within what seems right.


Oh...well ya I completely agree. That is how I will be playing it.

mandark0
27-10-2009, 13:36
hi there!

a question popped up on yesterday's play-session, and i haven't been able to find an answer to it yet:

if a blip is situated on a field, that is right next to a field belonging to a burning section, and that blip is converted (either voluntarily or involuntarily), can one or even two genestealer-models be placed in the burning section? and if yes, would that result in a flame-attack-roll for these models (die on 2+)? that would be a good way for the marine-player to get rid of one or even two GS in an involintary conversion, where he can decide the placement of the GS.

wilsongrahams
27-10-2009, 17:56
hi there!

a question popped up on yesterday's play-session, and i haven't been able to find an answer to it yet:

if a blip is situated on a field, that is right next to a field belonging to a burning section, and that blip is converted (either voluntarily or involuntarily), can one or even two genestealer-models be placed in the burning section? and if yes, would that result in a flame-attack-roll for these models (die on 2+)? that would be a good way for the marine-player to get rid of one or even two GS in an involintary conversion, where he can decide the placement of the GS.

Marine player NEVER chooses placement of the genestealers so shouldn't occur. Stealer player always chooses position, marine player may choose facing only in an involuntary conversion.

Also, models may not move into flames, so placing them in them would also not be allowed I'd assume. Only models already in fire can move through them.

Vaaish
27-10-2009, 18:19
I believe you have that backwards, stealer player always chooses facing but on involuntary reveals, marines get to place stealers after first one on the blip. I don't have my rulebook with me or I'd double check, but it should be under the section about involuntary reveals.

Patriarch
27-10-2009, 19:37
That's an interesting one. I'd say the marine player can force stealer models to convert onto the flamed section as the stealers haven't moved as such (they are placed from a blip, meaning they were really on their respective squares all along); if so seems fair to force them to roll individually for being flamed (delayed reaction).

mandark0
28-10-2009, 11:25
thanks for your answers!


Marine player NEVER chooses placement of the genestealers so shouldn't occur. Stealer player always chooses position, marine player may choose facing only in an involuntary conversion.

as Vaaish already pointed out, its the other way round: the GS-player always chooses the facing, and on involuntary conversion, the marine-player can choose the positions.


Also, models may not move into flames, so placing them in them would also not be allowed I'd assume. Only models already in fire can move through them.
the question is, if placement during a blip-conversion is considered "moving" here.


That's an interesting one. I'd say the marine player can force stealer models to convert onto the flamed section as the stealers haven't moved as such (they are placed from a blip, meaning they were really on their respective squares all along); if so seems fair to force them to roll individually for being flamed (delayed reaction).

yes, that would be the most logical way. but imho the rules aren't clear about this.

what i forgot about this issue:
of course this question also arises, if a blip is ALREADY in a burning section (having survived the 2+ -roll), and gets converted. can the resulting GS even be placed in the burning section, and if yes, do they have to roll? patriarch's solution (delayed reaction) isn't so easy to apply here, because the there was already a +2 -roll for the blip, as it is situated in the burning section.

Patriarch
28-10-2009, 15:15
what i forgot about this issue:
of course this question also arises, if a blip is ALREADY in a burning section (having survived the 2+ -roll), and gets converted. can the resulting GS even be placed in the burning section, and if yes, do they have to roll? patriarch's solution (delayed reaction) isn't so easy to apply here, because the there was already a +2 -roll for the blip, as it is situated in the burning section.
In this case, I'd say they can be placed, and they don't need to roll. Until revealed the blip represents both/all three stealers, so if the blip survived, so do all the stealers it represents. It would be a bit unfair otherwise; a 3-blip doesn't get three chances to survive before it is converted.

Of course, once they start moving, the stealers have to roll for each burning square moved through - can't say I really like this 3rd ed rule change. As long as the stealer isn't at the edge of the section, flaming a room is pretty much guaranteed to make the flamer marine immune to reprisal with a single shot.

wilsongrahams
30-10-2009, 10:36
Oops you're right, I wasn't thinking straight when I replied.

As flames block LOS can the blip ever be seen whilst in the flames anyway or would it not be converted until the flames are removed? I suppose it depends upon whether the blip is on the edge of an area as you can still see a model then.

mandark0
31-10-2009, 00:02
the definitife answer to my question appeared in the boardgamegeek-forums (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/457215). apparently a bgg-member forwarded the question to somebody from games workshop. here are the answers:

Q. When converting a blip in a section adjacent to a flaming section, can Genestealer models be placed in the flaming section?
A. No.

Q. Can a blip in a flaming section be converted? Must the Genestealer models roll for survival when placed?
A. Yes to both questions. Any Genestealer model placed in a flaming square would be destroyed on a roll of 2+ (roll after placing all of the models).

they are now added to the "Additional SH Clarifications"-document on boardgamegeek found here (http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/47504).

mattjgilbert
02-11-2009, 20:09
OK cool - I'll update the warseer Q&A as soon as I can.

mattjgilbert
27-11-2009, 20:00
OK, doc is updated. I'll ask wintermute to replace the old one.

Marxus
16-01-2010, 15:24
Just started playing so thanks for this post and the FAQ, it has helped alot.

So my question is on mission 3 when you are carrying the CAT even though passing an object is considered a free action can you still pass it after the marine holding it has been activated, had his turn, and another marine is on the move. Both sides of the argument seem valid... it is called a free action after all so the marine player assumed you could.

Genestealers argument was that "free" or not an action is still an action and you cannot jump back to previously activated units once they are done unless you are spending CP (which the marine player ran out of).

With more careful planning it would have been smarter to just run the receiving marine first, but of course plans tend to fall apart when your under the clock in this game!

twistinthunder
17-01-2010, 17:05
Genestealers argument was that "free" or not an action is still an action and you cannot jump back to previously activated units once they are done unless you are spending CP (which the marine player ran out of).


you are spending cp, your spending 0 cp but your still technically spending cp because you spend cp = to the amount of cp it takes to perform the action, in this case 0.

Anon
06-03-2010, 16:43
I have a question on placing genestealers.

In the german rulebook it is written, that when a blip is uncovered the first Stealer is placed directly on the field where the blip was, the other Genestealers are placed in adjacent fields.
So the question is what counts as adjacent.

x = field on which Genestealer can be placed
B = blip
_ = placeholder (no meaning)

possibility 1:

x x x
x B x
x x x

possibility 2:
_ x
x B x
_ x

What is right?

Sorry for my english I hope you can understand what I am saying.

wilsongrahams
06-03-2010, 19:51
Possibility 1 is correct. You may place the extras in any of the eight extra squares, and often when in a room you will want to do this to keep them out of sight so only the original stealer can be shot at. Remember that if these spaces don't exist you may not place there, and if converting voluntarily you may not place stealers in line of sight of a marine.

Curufew
06-04-2010, 18:14
Hi I am a newbie at this fantastic boardgame even though I have it since the day of release and this is my question illustrated below.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3479/33974475.jpg

G = Genestealer and T= Terminator

Assuming the terminator is facing west, can he shoot at the genestealer located at the position in the illustration above?

Patriarch
07-04-2010, 01:43
Hi I am a newbie at this fantastic boardgame even though I have it since the day of release and this is my question illustrated below.

Assuming the terminator is facing west, can he shoot at the genestealer located at the position in the illustration above?

Yes. The marine can shoot at anything he can see*. As long as he can see at least half the target square from his own square, he can shoot at it.
Note that if the stealer was one square further down the corridor, the marine couldn't shoot at him.

A rough rule of thumb is this: imagine a line drawn from the centre of the marine's square to the centre of the target square. As long as this line isn't crossed by a corner, closed door, or other model, he can see whatever is in the target square if he is facing in the right direction.

*exceptions for range, having enough ammo, APs etc etc.

azhagmorglum
18-08-2010, 17:31
Sorry for ressurecting this thread, but after reading the last version of the warseer FAQ, at the section

MOVING : Q: Can a genestealer make a free 90 degree turn and then a sideways move (all for 1 AP) to move into the square behind its starting position?

A: Yes, the free turn can be made before or after the action.

Something is bugging me : when you refer to the diagram page 12 of the rulebook, if a genestealer wants to move 1 square behind and make a 180°, it will spend 3 APs. 2 for moving backwards (plus a free 90° turn) and 1 for the additional 90° turn.

If we use the FAQ rule, it'll take only 2 APs. So which rule shall a player apply?

As I see it, either GW didn't see the problem, or the FAQ ruling for moving in a square behind the initial position is wrong.

If you stick to the rulebook, then it means that for moving sideways, you have to finish in a square to the left or the right of the initial position (square and direction), no matter if you make a 90° free turn.

Am I missing something, or have I raised a new problem here?

Dezartfox
19-08-2010, 10:31
Hmmm that's tricky.

I will go with the cheapest of 2 AP's

wilsongrahams
19-08-2010, 10:36
The example is still correct as it involves different types of movement, but is not the most economical. Also, if you wanted to run off down the corridor then you'd just free turn, sidestep, then free turn and move off for the 2AP and be even further down the corridor.

An example in the rulebook isn't always the best use of AP but just an explanation of how certain maneuveres would work.

azhagmorglum
29-08-2010, 22:08
Hi,

I've got a question regarding a situation that occured twice during a game today.

---------------------
O ###### TG#####
---------------------

O = terminator on overwatch
T = terminator
G = genestealer
# = square

The genestealer attacks the terminator and kills it. Does the terminator on overwatch get to shoot it as described in the overwatch rule ?

Firstly I'd say yes, but we played it the other way (no shot) saying that he didn't see the genestealer perform an action per se, since his line of sight was blocked by the other terminator when the action occured.

On the second thought I think we were right not to shoot, since if the attacked terminator had survived, the overwatching one wouldn't have shot at all also.

What do you think ?

Dezartfox
29-08-2010, 23:39
You perfrom the check to see if he has Line of Sight AFTER the 'stealers action, so YES the terminator on overwatch would get to fire!

wilsongrahams
30-08-2010, 22:01
I second this - wasn't it in the FAQ? I think the example was if the terminators were directly behind each other and the terminator got two shots off before he was attacked - one after model infront was slain, and one as the stealer closed the gap - he then loses OW because he was attacked in combat.
If confused by shooting after the action, just remember that you shoot at an opening door even though the door is now open and not in sight etc.

azhagmorglum
31-08-2010, 14:03
@ wilsongrahams : Where is it written that a space marine on overwatch has to shoot when a door opens in his line of sight and within 12 squares ?

When a door closes, he has to shoot, on this point I'm ok (rulebook page 19, "shooting at doors").

So for an opening door, it is a general consensus that makes you say the SM has to shoot?
I'm not saying you're wrong, I also think that if a genestealer opens a door in the line of sight and range of a SM in overwatch, the SM will shoot at the genestealer. But if the genestealer is not in the line of sight of the SM (for example, it is in a room and opens the door while concealing in the corner adjacent to the door), what happens?

I can see a genestealer player spending his AP opening and closing the door repeatedly until the SM jams.

And what if the SM is armed with an assault cannon? Again in the rulebook it's not written that the SM has to shoot if a door closes or opens while in overwatch.
The warseer FAQ says that he doesn't. But the games workshop FAQ says he has to. Who is right? (I myself don"t see why he wouldn't shoot at a closing door, but then the repeatedly closing and opening tactic would be devastating against the assault cannon)

Then there is this little phrase page 13 : "if this action takes the genestealer out of the SM 's range or LoS then there is no shooting."

This sentence makes me say that a SM in overwatch has to shoot if anything except another SM at range and in LoS does something or appears.
Thus :

- a closing door will make a SM shoot
- an opening door will make the SM shoot only if a Genestealer/blip is revealed this way
- in my example with the close combat 2 posts above, the SM in overwatch will get to shoot, since by killing the other terminator, the genestealer appears in his LoS and in range.

And it works for both the storm bolter and the assault cannon.

What do you and other people think?

wilsongrahams
02-09-2010, 02:55
I don't have access to my books right now but I'm sure it is listed as being 'any action' including opening or closing a door therefore as that is still an action that occurs within his line of sight. A genestealer opening and closing a door for the sake of it will likely just waste his turn or get the door blown off it's hinges for his troubles.

As to being lethal to the ammo of the assault cannon - that is where you may want to not go onto overwatch and just use CP as you see an action occur. In fact I'd never put an Assault Cannon on overwatch unless you were desperate.

Morty
06-09-2010, 04:09
YES the stealer player can indead try to jam your stormbolters and wast assault cannon ammo by simply opening and closing doors in your OW range. The over wathc is resoved against the door in both ocashions and under the new rules after the first 'cycle' it dose tend to result in the door being blow of, however, if you have a pile of stealers both sides of the door it is an sneaky way of trying to get the marine to jam, and lets faceit he was only gona shoot the door in on his next turn anyway. I myself have used this tactitc to jam sentries giving me a valuble turn to try and close the distance. Just rember that though you have to shoot if hes opening the door and theres a stealer on the farside now in los you can chose to shoot it rather than the now invunrable (cuss it's outa los/FA) Door. so hopfuly if you do jam the shot wount be wasted.

azhagmorglum
09-09-2010, 08:43
About doors by the way :

Rulebook page 12 : To open or close a door, a model must be in a square ADJACENT to the door, and with the door in one of its THREE FORWARD SQUARES.

If I read this well a model can open/close a door in these situations below :

legend :

> facing right, ^ facing north, v facing south

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv233/azhagmorglum/SHdoors.jpg

Terriones
09-09-2010, 09:13
Yes that's it.

Since Blips have no facing they can open doors in any square.

Brother Constantine
22-10-2010, 21:54
I have a question after a game I played today. I am not sure if it has been asked/answered already, but I hope someone will give me an answer regardless.

My Sgt with Thunder Hammer and SS was fighting a 'Stealer to his front and killed it, ending his turn. I put him "on guard". In the 'Stealer's turn they attacked him from the rear and killed him........

My question is: Should my Sgt have received any bonuses (Shield -1 attack, +1 Sgt, +1 Hammer, re-roll for on guard) when attacked from the rear?

The way I played it was to say that nothing applied, was this correct or should he have received some bonuses? if so which?

Thank you for your replys.

BC

Dj Silent Bob
24-10-2010, 13:55
As I see it, the rules state the only bonus you will receive with an attack from the side or in your case the rear is the re-roll for being on guard (as it does not mention attacks from the front only, the rest do!). You can however turn to face your opponent if they fail to kill you on the first attack. You will then receive all your bonuses for the following forward facing attacks. The one thing that's not clear in the rules is, if you lose your guard for using the free turn or not!! As it states any action while being on guard loses the status. But it might only mean for actions that cost AP's??!!?? don't think so though....

On another note I have uploaded two docs that were released after Q&A sessions with members of GW. You may find some answers to other questions that are a little gray.

Brother Constantine
25-10-2010, 04:07
Thanks for the answer and the links! Very helpful :D
One question I am still not sure about is being able to flame a section that contains a Terminator.......I know that you CAN do it if there is an open square...But does this mean that the terminator in the flamed section will die on the roll of a two like the 'Stealers do?

BC

Dj Silent Bob
25-10-2010, 07:04
I think this must be a yes, as the rules for Heavy Flamer talk about models (generically) and not Genestealers (specifically). Personally though I think the Terminator Suit should give you more protection than just a 2+ roll....

wilsongrahams
30-10-2010, 20:55
That's just to stop players from flaming their own guys hoping the suit will save them. I agree that it should offer some protection but that's not how it's played.

As for those clarifications - I've always played that when a Stealer leaves sight and then returns, the first shot at it after it returns is at 6+ again as if it is a new target. Similarly I've never carried sustained fire bonuses over from a previous phase. Strange how I thought I did everything properly!

ScanMan
26-12-2010, 11:42
Q: A genestealer is moving south down a hallway toward a room. Against the south wall is a terminator and a second terminator is standing in the north-west corner of the room on gaurd (it's a T room). Once the genestealer moves into the room can the terminator waiting in the corner use a CP to attack the genestealer in CC and does he still gain the bonus of being on gaurd if attacking the genestealerr in this way?

wilsongrahams
28-12-2010, 08:56
The terminator on guard may use a command point to attack the genestealer as the genestealer has been witnessed performing an action, but the marine will lose his guard status as soon as he makes another action - so he makes a normal attack, but hopefully the side attack will keep him alive for this one round.

Baron Phlegm
02-02-2011, 17:55
Another question- who'd a thunk!

- Assault cannon: Would you play that the first 10 shots must be used entirely before reload, or that the Marine player can reload at any point (possibly wasting unused shots, but saving himself from being caught on empty)?

- Bought the 3rd edition over Christmas (100GBP- ouch!), enjoying it, finding it a bit easier on the marines, so may revert to some of the 1st ed rules.

- Not keen on the opening/closing door scam for genestealers, seems a bit unsportsmanlike.. even for a genestealer :o

wilsongrahams
03-02-2011, 10:37
I have played it that you can reload at any time but lose any shots left, and you will still count as reloading for exploding purposes.

If you don't like the extra overwatching against doors, then remember that marines now get the sustained fire bonus on overwatch so it kind of balances out overall.

Baron Phlegm
03-02-2011, 14:09
Thanks Wilsongrahams, that seems logical and fair.

.. Just one more question (for now, and this is probably answered in the Q+A but I wondered how players deal with it in practice).
Stealer moves in an OW Marines line of site, Marine must shoot. Can the Marine use a CP to do something, thus bringing him out of overwatch and avoiding taking the OW shot?
I seem to recall that in 1st edition OW seemed a dual edged sword, you were covering yourself but trapped in OW (though I certainly could have been playing it wrong).
If you can override OW in 3rd ed, potentially you could lure in Stealers(who believe you to be trapped in OW), take a step or two back and leave them stranded targets for the next turn.

-Off topic, Im just in the middle of a Genestealer hybrid infant conversion, I'll post it somewhere appropriate when painted!

-Space Hulk most probably my favourite board game (so far).

wilsongrahams
05-02-2011, 11:57
Thanks Wilsongrahams, that seems logical and fair.

.. Just one more question (for now, and this is probably answered in the Q+A but I wondered how players deal with it in practice).
Stealer moves in an OW Marines line of site, Marine must shoot. Can the Marine use a CP to do something, thus bringing him out of overwatch and avoiding taking the OW shot?
I seem to recall that in 1st edition OW seemed a dual edged sword, you were covering yourself but trapped in OW (though I certainly could have been playing it wrong).
If you can override OW in 3rd ed, potentially you could lure in Stealers(who believe you to be trapped in OW), take a step or two back and leave them stranded targets for the next turn.

-Off topic, Im just in the middle of a Genestealer hybrid infant conversion, I'll post it somewhere appropriate when painted!

-Space Hulk most probably my favourite board game (so far).

Although a marine appears to have a choice as to whether to take the O/W shot or use a CP he must take the overwatch shot. As covered by the FAQ you may not use an O/W shot and a CP in response to witnessing a stealer do a single action. If your marine is on overwatch, he must shoot if the target is within twelve squares. If it is further away then he is not bound by the ovewrwatch rules and can use a CP to turn etc, but remember that any marine performing any action other than clearing a JAM will lose his overwatch status. A Jammed Marine can use CP as normal to perform actions and yet still be back on overwatch after you clear the jam - just a little tip for you if you need to turn to face a different direction the same phase.

Space Hulk rocks, and it's always been my favourite GW game since I bought 2nd edition when it was released 15 years ago.

Capt. L.S.D.
07-02-2011, 12:36
Hey All
Have a question, don't know if already covered? couldn't find answer in Q&A, but had a situation in a game the other night when the assault cannon malfuctioned and on the same board section as the assault cannon was a stealer which he was shooting at ( didn't kill triple 3's) and two blips behind stealer, now in the rules it states that the marine is killed and all other models are destroyed on a 4+ but nothing about Blips?? We played it the same as when a section is flamed and the blips destroyed on a 4+ is this right??
If not how do you think this should have been handelled?

thanks in advance for the feed back!!

Baron Phlegm
07-02-2011, 14:33
Hi,

-Don't have the rule book at hand, but I'd play it the same as a flamer: roll D6 per blip.

wilsongrahams
07-02-2011, 16:29
Ditto, haven't gone to read the book either, but I'd have done the same, so I think you were fair in solving that issue even if it's not covered.

In most cases the rules reference a marine, blip, CAT or a stealer etc, but where just model is mentioned it includes any gaming piece really, and although they're cardboard they count as models for gaming purposes.

Capt. L.S.D.
07-02-2011, 23:39
That what we thought so you are saying if the CAT was in the board scetion it would have been destroyed on a 4+ as well for door get destroyed on a 4+ when this happens!!

thanks for the feed back

Baron Phlegm
08-02-2011, 17:51
- Will have a look at the rules later tonight. I think there's section on the CAT/objects (certainly in the first edition the CAT could be damaged resulting in a game loss or draw).

- WilsonGrahams/ any resident expert!

How about voluntarily giving up overwatch, is it ever do-able in practice?
I think we've established that if a stealer makes a series of moves towards a marine in OW , there's no opportunity for the marine to do anything but shoot (unless he jams, in which case he can have a wander).

- If the above has taken place (stealer moves in primary marine's LOS) could a secondary marine in overwatch that has not seen a stealer action, come out of overwatch (in the same way a secondary marine may expend a CP)?

- I think I prefer to see marines as trapped in overwatch and suffer any consequences!

wilsongrahams
09-02-2011, 06:16
There are no longer rules for damaging a CAT, it's fully healthy or dead now, never half way between.

You can indeed use a cp to move a marine in overwatch if another marine spots an action, in which case that marine does it's action and loses overwatch, but would remain jammed til the end phase unless you spent points to clear it if said marine was jammed.

It would be quite rare to want to do such a thing however so I don't think it matters too much allowing a marine to perform other actions.

barnEbiss
01-03-2011, 03:02
I asked this on my into thread elsewhere on the forum but got no answer.

I just played a game with my sis last evening but there are a few questions on the rules we had..


1. When a marine is in over-watch and a gen comes into view triggering the overwatch fire and I ruled a 3 and 1 not killing the gen and then the gen then moves again I ruled a 5 and 1 but not a six but we were taking into account the sustained fire rule and counting it as a kill since my marine was not moving and shooting at the same target! is this wrong? does sustain fire only count in non overwatch?

it says a gen triggers overwatch each time it performs an action in sight of marine, we were playing it so that a gen moves into view I take a shot, the gen would then turn to face my marine and I would take a shot. is this correct?

3.Blips when moving a blip into a marines view and force the conversion I was placing the Gens facing a direction I wanted since it was a non voluntary conversion and gen player does not get to pick is this still correct?.

barnEbiss
01-03-2011, 03:11
one more question reading over the forum I am now confused on one more point,

we were playing it that a gen triggering my marine to shoot was not costing any points. am I supposed to use a command point to make the marine on over-watch shoot. the rules made it seem like it did not cost anything to take a shot with a marine on over-watch.

Patriarch
01-03-2011, 23:05
1. When a marine is in over-watch and a gen comes into view triggering the overwatch fire and I ruled a 3 and 1 not killing the gen and then the gen then moves again I ruled a 5 and 1 but not a six but we were taking into account the sustained fire rule and counting it as a kill since my marine was not moving and shooting at the same target! is this wrong? does sustain fire only count in non overwatch?
You were right. Sustained fire counts in overwatch as well.


it says a gen triggers overwatch each time it performs an action in sight of marine, we were playing it so that a gen moves into view I take a shot, the gen would then turn to face my marine and I would take a shot. is this correct?
No. The 90 degree turn is part of the genestealer's movement action (so the action is: move-and-then-turn-90-degrees). One action, one overwatch shot.


3.Blips when moving a blip into a marines view and force the conversion I was placing the Gens facing a direction I wanted since it was a non voluntary conversion and gen player does not get to pick is this still correct?.
Blips can't "move into" a marine's view. It would have to convert into stealer models instead of taking an action. Each stealer can then take an action (and maybe move into the marines view).
In any case, the stealer player always chooses the stealers' facing. The marine player might get to choose which squares they are placed on, if the conversion wasn't voluntary.


we were playing it that a gen triggering my marine to shoot was not costing any points. am I supposed to use a command point to make the marine on over-watch shoot. the rules made it seem like it did not cost anything to take a shot with a marine on over-watch.
No. All overwatch shots are "free" shots (which is why overwatch is so good). You get an unlimited number of them as long as genestealers keep performing actions in your line of sight, unless the bolter jams, the marine is attacked, or he spends CPs on a different action.

wilsongrahams
02-03-2011, 22:57
Just to add to Patriarch's clear answers, Command Points can be used to make shots with models that were not on overwatch, and this is very useful for say the assault cannon, where you want to preserve it's ammo til needed yet may still want to fire in the stealer turn.

Baron Phlegm
07-03-2011, 01:14
Broodlord question!

He's impervious to flamer hits.. do most folks play that he can/can't enter flamed areas?
I think the general rule is no model may enter a flamed section.. but an angry broodlord storming through heedlessly is a sweet image.

Patriarch
07-03-2011, 12:24
Broodlord question!

He's impervious to flamer hits.. do most folks play that he can/can't enter flamed areas?
I think the general rule is no model may enter a flamed section.. but an angry broodlord storming through heedlessly is a sweet image.

He can't (otherwise, you could argue that regular stealers should be allowed a suicide charge into a flaming section).

However if the BL is in a section when it is flamed, he can safely walk around it to his heart's content.

azhagmorglum
20-03-2011, 14:01
Just to reinforce what patriarch said, the rulebook just says that the broodlord cannot be hurt by heavy flamers (page 23). On page 21, it says that "all squares in a map section that contains a flamer marker are considered BLOCKED for line of sight and movement. Surviving pieces WITHIN the section CAN MOVE..."

It's pretty clear that the broodlord cannot enter a flamed section.

I'd like to come back to a rule point covered in the Warseer Q&A, on page 6 (assault cannon) : as a clarification, it says that while in overwatch, the assault cannon will not shoot at a closing door in line of sight.

Why's that? My guess is, it's to avoid the annoying (but authorized) genestealers' tactic of repeatedly opening and closing a door in LOS of a space marine on overwatch.
I'd say too bad for the assault cannon, all the more that it is more powerful than a storm bolter and will more easily destroy the door.
The assault cannon requires more attention and reflexion of use. Moreover, in the official GW Q&A, they say that the assault cannon on overwatch shoots at closing door like storm bolters do.

Now, do what you want of what I'm saying, after all it's up to each person to play the game as he sees fit, as long as both parties are OK with the rules.

I've got another question (still regarding the opening/closing door situation) :

The genestealer opens and closes a door in LOS and range of a storm bolter on OW. When the door closes, the SM shoots and misses. The genestealer repeats the process. When the door closes for the second time, the SM shoots, but which score does he need? 6 or 5/6 ? (i.e does he gain the sustained fire bonus? Do you consider the door to be he same target or a new one? )

wilsongrahams
20-03-2011, 19:48
It's officially the same target so gains the sustained fire bonus, in the same way that a model that leaves sight for a square as it goes past a junction before appearing again gets the bonus.

Personally I house-rule it to not get the bonus as the target left sight and reappeared but that is not how the rules say to do it - just same target this turn.

Patriarch
20-03-2011, 20:07
I house rule out the whole "shooting a closed door" thing. The original principle was that you needed LOS to whatever performed the action, in this case the stealer is safe behind the door. The door doesn't perform an action. It also means that the "door dance" isn't a viable way of forcing overwatch shots.

Anyway, if you want to stick with the proper 3rd ed rules, I'd say you should get sustained fire against the door. The root cause of the shot is still the same stealer.

Morty
01-04-2011, 20:31
@ Capitan L.S.D acording to the FAQ a few years ago in a situation such as you dicribed the Blip is force converted as it is afected but not a valid target and each model so revealed is rolled for as appicable
(it's not a valid target cus it ant a model in its own right)

Baron Phlegm
05-04-2011, 21:04
Voluntary blip conversion question.

Played a couple of games with a noob the other week and this came up:

If you voluntarily convert a blip in the stealer turn, do you then have to move the newly created stealers ..or play that you can flip several blips(as yet unactivated) and activate the stealers out of sequence as desired?

MXGXXXBX (marine on overwatch/square/genestealer/squares/blip/square)

In the above, if the blip is a two stealer blip, it may be advantageous to first convert the blip, before activating the stealer near to the marine (stealer gets to place closer to the marine, in involuntary, the marine would place one behind the blip).

wilsongrahams
06-04-2011, 08:07
You can convert any and all blips any time you want. Converting a blip does not count as activating it. I don't have the rules with me so can't take a quote, but follow thorugh the logic: The stealer models are activated seperately one after the other in the normal manner when you get to them. It is impossible to do otherwise as you'd convert your blip, move one stealer, and then be unable to touch the remainder because you'd left them after activation (converting) and moved a different model (the first one) and you are unable to go back to another model once moving another.

This is how I've played it for 15 years without issue, and other players I know do the same. If it is wrong then everybody I know plays it wrong.

Baron Phlegm
06-04-2011, 12:08
Ta :}

Usually in games my opponents and I tend to flip a blip, move the created stealers, then onto the next blip.

- The mate I was playing the other day liked having a board full of stealers, so contrastingly tended to flip all blips at the start of the stealer turn.

- On a related theme, blip flipping comes up on Mission X, it pays to flip all blips as the first stack comes to an end, otherwise you get a reduced second (and final) stack.

Patriarch
08-04-2011, 00:58
Usually in games my opponents and I tend to flip a blip, move the created stealers, then onto the next blip.
That's generally how you do it - flipping all in one go tends to risk running out of room for stealer models, and if one set of stealers kills any watching marines, there's no need to reveal your numbers for the remaining blips that turn. However you aren't obliged to reveal-then-move.


- The mate I was playing the other day liked having a board full of stealers, so contrastingly tended to flip all blips at the start of the stealer turn.
Definitely more intimidating that way!


- On a related theme, blip flipping comes up on Mission X, it pays to flip all blips as the first stack comes to an end, otherwise you get a reduced second (and final) stack.I wonder, is it better to keep your "1s" hidden and reveal 2s and 3s, so that your reinforcement stack has a higher loading of 2- and 3-blips? The stealers can't normally be too fussy, particularly in Mission X which is hard enough for them.

KaptiDavy
06-06-2011, 22:57
Hi there!

Two questions were lost in the warp:

#124 (by PATRIARCH) In Pitfall, can the Librarian use his powers on the lower level - does going down a ladder count as one square in this case?

#125 (by XERXESHAVELOCK) Prescience. Does the marine player have the choice to burn more than one PSI Point for more than one CP move? I read no, but the Force Axe allows something similar. How do you read it?

I can't download the FAQ though, so forgive me if these are included... or maybe post a link:)

wilsongrahams
08-06-2011, 12:20
I can answer #125 pretty confidently.

A Librarian can only use one power per turn. It does not allow to use more than one, or the same power more than once, so it's a single use only. Any other option allows more than one Psychic Barrier per turn etc.

As for #124, nothing states that you can't though the fact you don't need line of sight probably helps here. For GAP I'd allow it's use and to count the ladder as 1 space as you say, though this isn't definitive, and the 1st ed rules may have more to say (having a larger section on ladders and pit falls and even shooting through them!).

KaptiDavy
08-06-2011, 19:57
Thanks!

Now I have read the topic from left to right, but since I still couldn't find the warseer FAQ, I have to ask two more questions:

1. How about attacking open doors in CC?

2. What if I flame a tile with a closed door on it, and in the same turn somebody destroys (or opens) the door? Do the flames spread to the remaining squares?

wilsongrahams
09-06-2011, 20:17
1. You're right this has never been mentioned, but as far as I know it can't happen - if the door has disappeared into the wall then you can't see it to hit it, so only closed doors can be shot or attacked. I cannot prove this however, but I've never heard of anyone trying to attack an open door before.

2. I thought this was covered in the FQ or the Alterations pdf but it's in neither so I don't recall where I read it, but yes, the flames spread if the door is destroyed from the clear side. It cannot be seen from the flamed side obviously due to flames blocking line of sight. I seem to recall you not being able to open a door too, but I think it's just closing a door in a flamed section you can't do in the same way you can walk out of a flamed section but not into it.

KaptiDavy
10-06-2011, 19:00
I've never heard of anyone trying to attack an open door before.

I've read about both cases here, a few pages back - I just keep asking these silly questions because I can't download the warseer FAQ, nd the topic doesn't offer any conclusion about these

Of course it's difficult to open a door from a flames section, but you can always shoot it from the other side if you have LOS...

wilsongrahams
10-06-2011, 20:19
The question isn't silly as such as it could be a valid tactic - to deny it being closed later in the game, I just think most people assume you can't because once it's open it's never in your front square to be attacked in close combat, and isn't in a square at all to determine LOS.

As I said I don't recall where I read it but I'm sure the question came up somewhere and you can shoot a door from the clear side, in which case the whole section immediately becomes flamed, hitting models in it etc. I'd probably say you can't open it until proven otherwise though.

KaptiDavy
10-06-2011, 21:12
Thanks!

Maybe I try asking about it elsewhere....

Morty
13-06-2011, 12:01
You can open or shoot a Door in a flamed Section from the Clear Side, but doing so with the RAW results in an now exposed Models Being hit By the flamer marker.

You can indeed attack an open door in mêlée only in 3rd ed as the door is placed to the side of where it was and thus takes up a virtual square to one side, LOS at range is blocked for shooting cuss of the wall. though for marines this is pointless wast of at least 2 AP to do so (turn then attack), bettor off using it else where, and 'stealer players should not do it cuss they need the cover option the door provides.

As for Psychic power's under 3rd ed RAP I would determine range for Los Free power's as normal through a ladder with the transition counting as 1 square. Since in this ed they have got rid of Partial Views the any Los Dependant affect can only be targeted into the square with the ladder on, if you are in the corresponding other side.
1st Ed had a nice little buffer zone around such obstacles that let the marine player get partial views up and down the pits but as the room shooting rules show all thats gone. I think this is because when they made the short film Genestealer they realized just how narrow a terminator's Field of vision really is and since they have dropped the wider rooms and corridors they don't need to allow partial shots.

wilsongrahams
14-06-2011, 13:08
Short film - genestealer? I want to learn more of this. Any help?

Oakwolf
15-06-2011, 19:05
On the 2nd mission of the campaign (2008 ed.), the conditions on both sides is to kill each other (or block accesses), but we've encountered situations where nobody would want to move...and there seems to be no mechanism to stop this from happening, or to break the tie.

Did i miss anything or is that mission prone to loops of eternity?

wilsongrahams
15-06-2011, 19:33
You didn't miss anything - that mission can end up like that, though in truth all missions can end up like that if there is no time limit. I've seen many games where marines sit at the end of long corridors because there are too many stealers at the other end to advance. On the other end of the scale, a mission with limited stealers tends to make the marine player happier to wait til they run out and then advance.

What you should propose is that in such a situation, the game ends and you call it a tie.

Personally, I play within the spirit of the game and always try to push forwards as marines - rarely wanting to stop and hang about. The genestealers are supposed to be numberless so waiting only invites more of them onto you.

Another option would be that for every turn after the third where neither side has moved, an extra blip is placed behind marine lines as if the genestealers have gone through the ducting or climbing through the roof space to get past the guns (Watch Aliens).

strewart
16-06-2011, 02:14
Yeah I have had that situation where both sides don't want to move.. If the marine players have a decently defended position, almost no amount of stealers from the same direction will help. Good idea to drop some free blips behind if there is no movement. The marine team really should be aggressive every game.

Oakwolf
16-06-2011, 15:43
The issue with "turns with no movements" is that people can go back and forth and still end at the same spot.

I would guess that a loose turn limit per game (something high like 30) could be done, in that case it becomes a draw. For a campaign, the mission will need to be re-done with the same squad (no casualties recorded if you use those rules)

wilsongrahams
17-06-2011, 13:57
The 2nd ed set had a turn counter that went up to 18. This was sufficient to me so could be used informally in 3rd ed. Delaying (apart from when the stealers will stop getting reinforcements) just allows stealers more time to slowly pick marines off and their chances reduce with each loss.

Oakwolf
17-06-2011, 14:44
Yes, that is the problem with the 2nd mission, there is a set number of stealers for it so the player just can't throw them until the marines jam or run out of ammo. You can still sacrifice a portion, but too many and you'll lack numbers in the end.

KaptiDavy
17-06-2011, 18:05
I'm just curious... which mission are you talking about?

Oakwolf
17-06-2011, 19:21
I don't have my books here so i can't tell the exact name. It's the 2nd mission on the book though. There's 5 marines vs 36 stealers. They come from sides of the hulk and the marines must kill them or sceal the entry points (stalking is prohibited and stealers/blips forced to stalk are destroyed).

What happens most frequently is that the 3 storm bolter guys block rather long corridors and covering fire is possible. The sergeant with TH can roadblock a door for a random turn but usually he kills 4-6 stealers before going down. The Assault Cannon can really have fun thanks to long corridors and choking points.

In the end, there might be 2-3 marines left and 3-4 stealers...nobody wants to move.

wilsongrahams
18-06-2011, 16:53
Actually I find that the sergeant usually gets to walk down any close off one entire half of the board for the rest of the game. The rest then usually have an easy time of it. It's not easy for the stealers hence the stand-off situations. One way to remedy this is to deploy your models in the positions they deploy in the Vengeance of the Blood Angels pc game rather than in the rooms. This means that the marines have a harder time getting into the perfect positions. Give me a few days and I'll get the map sorted and post them up for the alternative starting points.

KaptiDavy
18-06-2011, 23:04
Thanks! I asked because I currently work on a "full" edition that contains every available mission converted for 3rd edition (so it's good to know such things).... so here's a new question:

How about sealing doors in 3rd? My bet would be the 2nd ed version, when you must close them as doors, but in Mission 2 (exterminate), there's a special rule about lurking (Area secure), which left me in doubt....

and another one:

Can Genestealers lurk, or only blips are able to do so? If the stealers can too, is there any max amount?

wilsongrahams
19-06-2011, 07:57
Doors can't be sealed ever in 3rd. Some are jammed beforehand and are treated like bulkheads effectively, but no sealing - and the only time it's some is by forcing a lurk in that area - no 2nd ed style closing of bulkheads (which is a shame).

Genestealers can't lurk. If you are forced to lurk it's when the blip is placed or already at the entry point. You don't convert to stealers until the blip is activated to move onto the board (though if you tend to convert early for ease of play then do it however you wish) and you wouldn't be activating it if you have been forced to lurk.

In 2nd ed there was a limit of 3 blips per area, but no limit applies in 3rd so any number of blips.

KaptiDavy
19-06-2011, 23:18
Well I know there's no rule for the doors to be sealed, but if I want to play some old missions, I need a solution... that is not the rule system swap

The other question is quite clear though:) It's just my usual opponent's habit to convert almost every blip right before they come into play.. but they have to remain blips if forced to lurk, I see - thanks!

The 3 blips per entry zone rule is in the rulebook however, but the official FAQ says the other way, so WTF???

wilsongrahams
20-06-2011, 07:42
If you are playing old missions - use the old rules - walk up to it and close it as a door!

KaptiDavy
20-06-2011, 09:47
walk up to it and close it as a door

That would be my bet - knowing the similarities between editions... but I really don't wnat to use the old system:)

And about Lurking... does the FAQ overwrite the rulebook?

wilsongrahams
20-06-2011, 12:34
In my opinion no, only an Errata does that. I haven't checked either, buit I think 3 is fine. Why you'd want to keep more than that off board is beyond me.

As to using old rules - it's more using the proper mission objective than mixing editions etc. It's no different to destroying damping controls or cryogenic chambers - the old rules say score a hit, so do that with new weapons. Closing bulkheads is often a mission objective in the same way that in the new rules for mission 2 the entry areas can be sealed - assume the sealing in mission 2 is more securing and the bulkheads of other missions is a permanenet sealing off of other areas.

KaptiDavy
20-06-2011, 15:30
Now that's more like it:)
I asked this only because of the difference of the 1st and 2nd edition rules - I like it better when we actually have to spend that AP to secure the area....

wilsongrahams
21-06-2011, 13:08
Me too, though in 2nd ed there was no option of sealing areas in mission 2, and in 3rd ed (I can't say about 1st) it's an option only, and you can just sit back shooting, but I find the assault cannon will run out of ammo if you do that - the random deployment means he'll always be on point rather than the three bolters.

KaptiDavy
17-07-2011, 09:51
Some thoughts about Mission 2:

Reading the victory conditions carefully could shows that there are no chance of a tie, because the Genestealers actually MUST kill all Marines to achieve victory - and there's nothing written about conditions of a draw.
So using a turn counter is completely useless in this case...
The Marine player however can choose to achive victory by eliminating the genestealer force rather than sealing those entry ways (because that is written clerly in the description) - my opponent went into a room an shot my lovelies one by one:)

and I have a question too:

Same description says that the Marine player wins if he seals all entry ways. But we have to play along till the end of the Genestealer phase of the same turn that happens, right? So the marine blocking those entries can actually be killed... or should we play along till there are Genestealers on the board???

wilsongrahams
17-07-2011, 11:05
As far as I am aware, the game always ends the moment the victory conditions are met so it ends as soon as the entry areas are sealed. However, it would be difficult for a marine to do this without having already killed the genestealers coming from said entry areas. If there were genestealers in the entry area they would have been forced to lurk anyway and so would not be able to enter play and attack the marine before the end of the phase.

The discussion about tracking turns, was to avoid a situation where both players are holding position, refusing to go and attack their opponent, and I suggested adding a turn limit if this is to be an issue, or to add the option of a draw if neither player is willing to move and they agree to end the game so they can start a more enjoyable one. Another alternative is to allow infinite stealers and force the marines to seal the entry areas - delaying will achieve nothing here so the marines will advance.

KaptiDavy
17-07-2011, 11:11
I have outmaneuvered the remaining three stealers to seal the entry (in the south end of the map), but then one still could have reached me in the same turn - but were killed by overwatch fire...

It's actually the Mission Status Phase when the victory conditions are checked (by the rulebook)

wilsongrahams
18-07-2011, 22:07
"It's actually the Mission Status Phase when the victory conditions are checked (by the rulebook)"

You're right here. Well done that man - have a web-cookie!

Baron Phlegm
18-07-2011, 22:49
Destroying open doors sounds suspect to me.

- If in turn 1 you place a blip on the first square next to an entry area, in the following turn would you play that if you convert the blip, stealers can be placed off board, or are they lost (I suspect lost)?

Have seen the 3 blips per entry area rule, is there anything to stop you converting blips in entry areas to have 3 blips and a stack of stealers lurking off board?

KaptiDavy
19-07-2011, 10:25
Have seen the 3 blips per entry area rule, is there anything to stop you converting blips in entry areas to have 3 blips and a stack of stealers lurking off board?

Same question came up last time (my opponent always wants to do some bad tricks with the stealers, hehe)

See post #380 for the answer

So either you convert them to come to the board or step right in as a blip and convert them later.

There's no use converting them outside as the entry zones aren't part of the gaming area - so standing there your stealers won't be able to do anything

Baron Phlegm
20-07-2011, 12:13
Just had a swizz through the first edition rules.

In those you can have 3 blips and a maximum of 3 stealers lurking at each entry point.

Interestingly, a marine on the final square adjacent to the entry point could not attack lurking stealers, but stealers in the entry point can attack marines.

KaptiDavy
20-07-2011, 17:54
Attacking in and out of entry points is an interesting case, but 3rd edition says that the entry points are not part of the gaming area - blips waiting there have no role in the game.
Even the FAQs have nothing about these

and a question, of course:)

the FAQ says:

Q. Can the sustained fire bonus be carried over from the Genestealer player’s turn to the Space Marine
player’s turn?
A. Yes. Sustained fire is only lost due to the conditions described on page 19 of the rulebook. Note that
overwatch sustained fire is a separate condition and would not carry over.

I guess this is about firing in the Genestealer phase by spending a command point - and not hitting, then firing again in the next marine phase... but what about firing on the same stealer in two subsequent marine phases???

wilsongrahams
21-07-2011, 13:56
Good point. Whether it's supposed to carry over or not I've always treated each turn as a seperate entity and once a marine's activation is done, my memory of his actions is limited to whether he is on guard or overwatch, and that's it. I don't try to recall which marines should still be gaining bonuses etc. The turn sequence (player 1, then player 2) interrupts gameplay to make this seem the easiest method.

Baron Phlegm
21-07-2011, 14:33
Sustained fire through turns doesn't work for me - it's too unwieldy.

In a busy game you'd have to have a notepad handy to keep track of who'd done what.

Counter to the spirit of the game IMO, but whatever works for you.

azhagmorglum
24-07-2011, 21:49
You can convert any and all blips any time you want. [...]
This is how I've played it for 15 years without issue, and other players I know do the same. If it is wrong then everybody I know plays it wrong.

Even if it doesn't often matter, the rulebook states that if a blip has already been activated this turn (i.e moved, opened/closed a door) then it can't be revealed (page 16, under "voluntary conversion")

In other words, either you reveal it and then can activate the revealed genestealers, or the blip 's been activated and you can't reveal it (except of course if the activation puts the blip into a space marine's view, by opening a door for example)


As I said I don't recall where I read it but I'm sure the question came up somewhere and you can shoot a door from the clear side, in which case the whole section immediately becomes flamed, hitting models in it etc. I'd probably say you can't open it until proven otherwise though.

Page 12 : "...when open have no effect on the game" so you can't shoot/close assault an opened door.

You can't also open a door which is IN a flamed section (page 21 under "flamers and doors").
Nothing prevents you to destroy it from the clear side though, and the remaining squares of the section will be engulfed in flames, hitting any models that are on it.


the FAQ says:

Q. Can the sustained fire bonus be carried over from the Genestealer player’s turn to the Space Marine
player’s turn?
A. Yes. Sustained fire is only lost due to the conditions described on page 19 of the rulebook. Note that
overwatch sustained fire is a separate condition and would not carry over.

I guess this is about firing in the Genestealer phase by spending a command point - and not hitting, then firing again in the next marine phase... but what about firing on the same stealer in two subsequent marine phases???

Even if there's nothing preventing you from doing that, it is important to remember this sentence from page 19 :

"the sustainded fire bonus is lost if the SM takes any action other than a shoot action, or if the SM moves and fires, or if a model other than the target takes an action"

IMO, there is little chance you'll be able to carry your sustained fire bonus over another turn.

KaptiDavy
24-07-2011, 22:29
First, I have carried over the sustained fire bonus several times in today's game (keeping in mind the other rules about losing it, of course) - but I admit that it could be messy sometimes

Then we had the situation in Mission 3, when the whole thing about lurking stealers arose again:)
So if the stealer player wants to open the door on the picture, he has to move on to the map from spawn point B and open it, as the spawn points are not part of the game space (ie no blip or stealer can open it from spawn point A, as they cannot step into the map)

Or maybe we can convert the first blip outside, and open the door:)
But I don't think so....

Baron Phlegm
27-07-2011, 23:19
The entry area blip rules seem a bit daft in 3rd edition (taken word for word). I'd say it's an omission.

If you can't convert blips off board, a SM with line of sight to an entry square can block blip entry indefinitely (blip cannot enter line of sight).

KaptiDavy
28-07-2011, 11:37
Rulebook, page 16 (Voluntary Conversion, last sentence):

"The Genestealer player may choose to reveal a Blip that is off the board by an entry area"

There's nothing about lurking stealers, but they cannot be held off the board by leaving a marine with LOS to any entry areas

BUT this still leaves me with my question about that door in mission 3.... although we can assume that opening a door isn't that different from stepping onto the board (same AP cost for example) with a stealer converted off-board

Baron Phlegm
28-07-2011, 13:20
Ah yes, you're right.

I'd play that a blip or stealer outside the door entry point can open it.

As long as both players abide by the same rules in ambiguous situations it shouldn't be a prob.

KaptiDavy
28-07-2011, 15:14
Well, yes players can actually get along, but I made a translation, so I have to care about such things to be able to word those rules correctly

Morty
03-08-2011, 13:30
I have always treated Entre areas as a 'vertual' board section 1 square wide and that has the property Blocks LOS & LOF, this I find tends to solve rules anomalies like this.

It's infinate iseze mens that it can hold as many models as I whant and movement cost's are ignored, becuse there infinite :P

KaptiDavy
27-11-2011, 22:01
New question:

If the Genestealer player happens to have only one blip to draw, and should have 2 by the rules of the mission, can he shuffle the used blips immediately (to have another), or only in the following turn?

The rulebook says "When no blips are left in the stack, take the used ones, shuffle them, etc..."

Of course I could be generous, but it could also make a difference in a tight situation;)

Patriarch
30-11-2011, 19:29
New question:

If the Genestealer player happens to have only one blip to draw, and should have 2 by the rules of the mission, can he shuffle the used blips immediately (to have another), or only in the following turn?

The rulebook says "When no blips are left in the stack, take the used ones, shuffle them, etc..."

Of course I could be generous, but it could also make a difference in a tight situation;)

Yes, take the last one, shuffle and take another from the "newly-recycled" pile, and place both blips.

Except for those missions where there is a limit to how many times the stack can be recycled...

the phantom
16-12-2011, 10:20
Would anyone happen to have a pdf of the rulebook for the Deathwing expansion that they could email me? PM me if you have and I'll let you know my email address.

zerodemon
17-12-2011, 07:20
A canny player reveals all his 3 genestealer blips at this point so that he can weight the blip pile in favour of extra genestealers, keeping the 1's on the board.

KaptiDavy
27-12-2011, 19:43
answers found.

snottlebocket
29-12-2011, 17:00
This has probably been asked before but how many broodlords does the genestealer player get?

Does he only get a single broodlord that doesn't return once killed or can he replace any 3 blip with a broodlord if it's not in play at that moment?

The broodlord is such a hardcase I couldn't imagine my opponent being allowed to put it right back into play if I managed to kill it. It's also referred to as "the broodlord" rather than "a broodlord" or simply broodlords.

Still, my opponents has almost never been able to stop my marines in any of the missions.

KaptiDavy
29-12-2011, 22:53
Only 1 Broodlord per mission - rulebook, p23. "Revealing the broodlord"

and a question:

As I understand, the genestealers lurking outside are not part of the game, so they can't attack a marine standing right in front of an entry zone - does this mean that I can effectively secure entry zones by placing marines on adjacent squares?

Does this mean that any blip or genestealer trapped inside an entry zone (lurking) are blocked from gameplay for the following turns? i.e. the genestealer player have less figures or the blip won't be mixed again with the rest of the pile

All Die Before Khorne
03-01-2012, 17:12
Quick question. If you have a marine on overwatch and he jams, is he SOL until the marines next turn? Or, is this why you should save some command points to unjam so he can continue splattering stealers? Or, as my brother in law argues, the next free shooting phase would be sacrificed to clear the jam so the marine would only miss 1 movement of blasting on overwatch?
Thanks!

KaptiDavy
03-01-2012, 19:47
If you have any command points, you can clear the jam right after the genestealers' next action (if that happens in the LOS of a marine)

So you jam, miss one reaction to clear the jam by spending a command point, and you're back on overwatch

All Die Before Khorne
04-01-2012, 14:53
If you have any command points, you can clear the jam right after the genestealers' next action (if that happens in the LOS of a marine)

So you jam, miss one reaction to clear the jam by spending a command point, and you're back on overwatch

However, I have had it argued by the marine player (who had no command points left) that shooting and clearing the jam take the same action so he should be allowed to unjam his storm bolter in place of firing during the next bug movement during an overwatch. To me, the rules are pretty clear that you must fire (does not mention being able to clear jams) so in my mind, you would have to save a couple of command points if overwatch is going to be critical.

KaptiDavy
04-01-2012, 19:07
unjam his storm bolter in place of firing during the next bug movement during an overwatch

That's it - but english isn't my native language, so I had some difficulties:D

KaptiDavy
10-01-2012, 13:45
Can anyone answer this question:


As I understand, the genestealers lurking outside are not part of the game, so they can't attack a marine standing right in front of an entry zone - does this mean that I can effectively secure entry zones by placing marines on adjacent squares?

Does this mean that any blip or genestealer trapped inside an entry zone (lurking) are blocked from gameplay for the following turns? i.e. the genestealer player have less figures or the blip won't be mixed again with the rest of the pile?

Morty
09-02-2012, 19:57
@ KaptiDavy

1st.
It depends on the Marines facing and los, if he is facin INTO the entry area then yes those blips are indead traped and can't do anything, however, they can still be converted into stealers (cuss there not in line of sight) however, models that have lurked for at least one turn are free to try and enter the board (visa vis lurking rules, lurking rules also say that the models/blips count as in play) however the maine blocks the entry squres so they can't enter the board (and so be shot at if on OW), however, models only need to be in the frunt of a model to be attack vs HtH so unfortunatly for that mairne is is looking at potentaly 54 attacks that he can do nothing about (upto 6 per stealer and upto since it don't have to move) since he cant see to shoot back (can get HtH kills for the same resion the stealer can attack him), So unless the mishion spersificaly alows you to sucre entry areas this is gona be a very bad place to stand (I personlly veaw entry areas as areas of the hulk that eather open up on eather large open areas/space or conduit openings that the terminator can't get into) with lots of dribelries crawling along (aka the false ceiling scene from Alien's, this is also infered in the all the text acompanying the game)

If you are gona try this make shure it's the sargent with thunder hammer doing it cuss you is gona be in alot of combat.

As these blips becuss they are 'in play' lurking yes when blips are resicled they an not added to the pile and lurking models count towards the max that the genestealer player can have in play at any one time.


2nd
Also clearing the Jam, and fireing are both, Actions,
So you clear the jam, for 1 Command point, losing overatch becuse you have performed an action.
stealer Act's again (hopfully not HtH attack)
Return fire for another command point and hope you kill the SOB, or if he can't reach you this turn (and you have the CP) spend 2 Cp to reset Overwatch.
if you reset overwatch you do NOT get to shot imedatly cuss the stealer hasn't moved since you set overwatch
if the stealer moves again after this you pray to the lady for good rolls and you kill them and don't jam again or that you have CP left to blow every steler incoming away.

KaptiDavy
14-02-2012, 09:16
Thanks!

I've already found some answers - the Rulebook says that BLIPS lurking outside are not part of the game, so I suppose 'Stealers are still capable of nasty things :skull:

The answer for the question whether stealers can attack out of an Entry Zone might come from here as it isn't from the official Q&A.... who knows?

The other part however (about clearing the jam) has been already answered correctly which means you don't lose Overwatch by clearing your bolter.

Thanks!

KaptiDavy
24-06-2012, 17:00
(me again...)

May I activate a Marine with Command Points? (e.g. Spending them on his first action in the turn before spending his Action Points)

Today I did this, because I had to go back to another figure after seeing if the flamer guy burned all those stealers (and didn't want to waste his APs for doing so), and as the FAQ says I can spend CPs any time, even while another figure is activated...

wilsongrahams
25-06-2012, 23:18
(me again...)

May I activate a Marine with Command Points? (e.g. Spending them on his first action in the turn before spending his Action Points)

Today I did this, because I had to go back to another figure after seeing if the flamer guy burned all those stealers (and didn't want to waste his APs for doing so), and as the FAQ says I can spend CPs any time, even while another figure is activated...

Using command points does not 'activate' a marine, so yes you may move him with cp's, and still activate him normally after. Command Points can be used any time (more or less) without affecting the standard rules in most cases. The quote you make is a case that you may interrupt one marine to use cp's on another and then come back to the original marine - you have not activated the other model to do so, and is great for moving models out of your way.

azhagmorglum
26-12-2012, 12:46
Hi there,

Does anybody still play the game? :-)
I do, I've a friend at my place for a week and we are fervently playing SH. We came to a problem in mission XI where marines can use power field generators (PFG). Indeed if used in the center square of a crossroads, a PFG can delay genestealers in a corridor for 3 whole turns. My question is : if genestealers are queuing up behind a PFG, and the first one destroy the PFG (after 2 turns of attacking it), would it be possible for the genestealer behind it to attack and kill it to then be able to move on, hence not losing a whole turn doing nothing .
To say it in a nutshell, are genestealers allowed to attack each other? It doesn't say they can't in the rulebook, and in my opinion it fits the hive mind spirit. What do you guys think?

wilsongrahams
26-12-2012, 19:28
Rules wise, it may not be covered but being a permissive ruleset that means you can't do it. It also makes sense - you are taking advantage of the rules mechanic of activating one model at a time to do what you ask when in reality they should be acting at the same time, so killing said genestealer would have prevented him from attacking the power generator.

Onto the mission - there are so many other ways round, and this being one of the hardest missions to finish for the marines, you really should not need to. With all the turns, the marines will not have escaped very far, and instead of queueing up behind the attacking stealers, you should divert them south to slow them up. Constant attack from all angles is how the marines fail in this mission. Blindly going straight towards them will end up with the blockages you have encountered. Genestealers are cunning.

Fluffwise, I can imagine a scene like in Alien: Resurrection when the aliens kill one of their number to escape with it's acid blood, but even this would not be a reasonable explanation in space hulk when killing the genestealer in front would achieve nothing fluffwise except to show up the rules mechanics.

azhagmorglum
26-12-2012, 19:44
I see your point here, indeed all actions from one side are supposed to take place at the same time, though I don't think it does from the SM perspective. And since the heavy flamer is allowed to shoot a boardpiece where a space marines is standing, I was thinking a genestealer might be allowed to attack one of its own.
As for mission XI, of course I sent my genestealers everywhere and didn't queued them up in a blocked corridor...but since I had 4 genestealers there doing nothing for 3 turns and the idea of attacking your own camp did came up in my mind, I wanted to ask here to see what other people thought.

wilsongrahams
26-12-2012, 22:11
Regarding the flamer - as the marine may not target another, but he can be caught in the effects, this is probably meant to be unintentional friendly fire, but yes, moving someone out of a room and then flaming it does not apply the 'happens at the same time' theory either.

I think being able to kill your own stealers to get to the power generator quicker would also avoid the whole point the marines have them in the first place lol. Personally I'd prefer that they lasted a more random time rather than 12APs, which especially at a cross roads is easy to do in a single turn if attacked by more than one. But then I tend to view things from a realism point of view before game function.

azhagmorglum
26-12-2012, 23:42
I guess it's a matter of point of view here...

I've just tumbled on another "problem" re-reading the rulebook : page 15, close assaulting a door, the paragraph says that one of your dice must score a 6. If you stick to what is written, it means that a genestealer alpha must also score a 6 on one of its dice instead of adding the biggest and lowest score and determine its score it could be 6, 7 or more it doesn't destroy the door??)

How do you or would you play that rule?

wilsongrahams
01-01-2013, 10:05
Hmm, interesting. I guess there are two options. One is that you ignore the dice part and simply need a score of 6 (or higher) and assume his mighty blow is due to strength which would have more effect on a door anyway. I don't have my rulebook here, but doesn't the mighty strike rule help out here with regards to score on dice or simply combat score?
The other option is that his mighty strike represents his combat ability, to get a good hit in, and so is not any stronger, so no better against doors, but better in melee.

Personally, I would house rule that mighty strike applies, and reason that the special rule overrides the usual rules in a Rules As Intended way, and overlooks any conflicts of wording.

KaptiDavy
03-02-2013, 12:58
Well, one of GW's FAQs answered the question about 'stealers killing each other, saying simply "NO"
I always wondered what it was all bout... thanks:)

As for the other, special rules generally override the others before them

Druathii
15-02-2013, 14:46
Question- I'm playing a version of space hulk where both sides have access to ranged weapons and have the option to go on over watch. If a model with a ranged weapon steps round a corner and into sight of a model on over watch, who should shoot first, the moving model or the over watch model?

I can see reasons for both. For the over watcher, he responds to movement. For the mover, he is allowed to fire as part of a movement.

Any views at to which is the better/fairer interpretation?

Ta.

jeroen84
15-02-2013, 20:41
Question- I'm playing a version of space hulk where both sides have access to ranged weapons and have the option to go on over watch. If a model with a ranged weapon steps round a corner and into sight of a model on over watch, who should shoot first, the moving model or the over watch model?

I can see reasons for both. For the over watcher, he responds to movement. For the mover, he is allowed to fire as part of a movement.

Any views at to which is the better/fairer interpretation?

Ta.
Direct interpretation of the rules say that moving+shooting is a single action, so the overwatcher shoots after he gets shot at.

Of course.. Most FUN gameplay would say that they shoot at the same time, potentially killing each other. ^_^

azhagmorglum
22-02-2013, 16:56
Question- I'm playing a version of space hulk where both sides have access to ranged weapons and have the option to go on over watch. If a model with a ranged weapon steps round a corner and into sight of a model on over watch, who should shoot first, the moving model or the over watch model?

I can see reasons for both. For the over watcher, he responds to movement. For the mover, he is allowed to fire as part of a movement.

Any views at to which is the better/fairer interpretation?

Ta.

Well I'd say the overwatching guy would shoot first, but then reading the rules it says that the overwatch action comes after the triggering model has finished his own action, here the combined movement+shoot.
Hence you could say that the model on overwatch could die before shooting a single round.

Druathii
01-03-2013, 18:51
After playing the overwatch v's moving shooter firing as part of their move (the dual duel I suppose it could be called) I've decided to give the overwatcher the first shot - but only for the first shot.

While this is against the original space hulk rules as written, I think it is more accurate. A model on overwatch is primed to respond to movement, so they should shoot at a model which appears into their overwatch arc. The moving model would need time to draw a bead on the model in overwatch so their shot would be slower.

If both models have survived that action then the advantage can switch to the moving model. From a second action onwards they can shoot as part of the move and the overwatcher fires second.

To me, this seems a workable, rememberable ( if that's a word) and makes some kind of logical sense.


As an aside, models in my games receive a save vs shooting attacks. 4+ if you are in terminator equivalent armour, 5+ if you are in powered armour equivalent and 6 if you are in carapace equivalent. No save if you are wearing anything lighter than carapace. I think this does two things, it lessens the chances of an armoured target dying to shooting attacks, so does not tip the balance too far away from the initial premise of space hulk which was shooting power vs combat power. Secondly it lessens the vulnerability of heavily armoured targets to shooting. Combat remains the same, saveless system we always had as I see the dice roll off as taking in many factors including skill and armour. If you manage to beat the opponent you have found a weak point in his defence.

wilsongrahams
03-03-2013, 13:39
I find the best way to deal with shooting is to give the shooter two dice and a terminator hard to kill. Of course this depends upon whom you have in the game. Terminators vs chaos terminators would make for a very boring game done this way. Terminators boarding an ork hulk however works very well with this method. I do however only allow the ork player to set overwatch by using his command points rather than regular action points as normal. This is because orks are less well trained and marines should still have the edge in shooting - this reduces the amount of orks that will be firing back in the marine turn.

McMaster
30-05-2019, 23:14
Wow it looks like these forums are no longer active...

I wanted to know if there is a computer version of space hulk that you can play with your friends over the internet?

Such a fun game that should be shared and not just played by those that can find an ancient box set... :rolleyes:

xerxeshavelock
17-08-2020, 11:32
several, although I never found one that was as much fun as the game.