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PeeKay
09-09-2009, 12:31
Mission 13 is available on the GW (UK) site in the Astronomican.

I am a little disappointed, I was expecting a couple of page PDF explainning how to create your own missions. The processes they took to create their missions etc. However, its more of a random mission generator.

reds8n
09-09-2009, 12:53
and here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=1&aId=700024a&start=2) is the link to it.

Mojaco
09-09-2009, 12:57
That's a disappointment. You basically decide the battle during the creating of the battle, as (for example) both marines squads versus one reinforcement blip is nowhere near fair.

Bookwrak
09-09-2009, 13:25
It looks pretty good. Designing the map is probably going to be the longest step, but everything else seems to roll along pretty fast.

FerociousBeast
09-09-2009, 13:27
You're certainly free to re-roll force deployments if you want. And of course to just choose what you want in your mission. The "Most Important Rule" always applies.

wilsongrahams
09-09-2009, 17:20
Wasn't impressed at all. I was hoping for a generator for creating the map along the lines of Warhammer Quest. Maybe I should make my own - there are plenty of rooms now...

grissom2006
09-09-2009, 17:46
Hugely disappointing you can't even get a PDF of the haow they do it so have to make your own notes on it.

I for one will be making up a bunch of square mapped out sections shrinking them and placing them on card as cut outs and using them in the same fashion as the old random mapped hulk was.

reds8n
09-09-2009, 17:56
I suggest y'all check out this thread on BoardGameGeek (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/438527)

Truly awetastic job by Mr Shawn Riordan for designing Space Hulk scenarios

http://www.sianaco.com/images/smpic552221.jpg (http://www.sianaco.com/images/pic552221.jpg)

http://www.sianaco.com/images/smpic552222.jpg (http://www.sianaco.com/images/pic552222.jpg)

wilycoyote
09-09-2009, 18:02
See the thread here "custom missions" and get the link to a rather nice tile/layout editor and then try out a few of your own layouts with the force generator. Then tweak it to get the balance you are after, nothing is set in stone.

Aternatively try and get hold of the old 1st ed missions from WD and SH Campaigns - google time? These are all viable withe new set and increase replayability. Some of the DEAn Bass ones are highly recommended

Grapeshot
09-09-2009, 18:05
Yup. The Astronomican looks kind of simple... well, it is free :D

nedius
09-09-2009, 18:23
I'm happy with the page they've designed, but I hoped the whole article would be pdf. Eventually, GW will clear off the space hulk stuff, and you'll lose some of this info. Have already saved it, and will print it off.

CRasterImage
09-09-2009, 18:31
If the contents of that PDF could be extracted into an editable MS Word file, or other popular word processing format, then that could be useful as a template.

Though I would be worried that people could have trouble getting all the text into the alloted locations.

Anyone know how such a thing might be done?

Sureshot05
09-09-2009, 18:35
There is no satisfying some people. Its still a good mission generator, just requires you to do the map work in advance. Personally, I quite like the thirteenth mission.

CRasterImage
09-09-2009, 18:50
I like that they went to the trouble to generate some rules for mission creation.

I just wish those rules related to each other in some way. The way they have it, it is purely random. You could have 3 marines taking on 2 blips per turn. Or 10 marines taking on 1 blip per turn.

They did some tweaking with the special 'Jammed Doors' and 'Area Secure' modifiers. But they could have done more.

Znail
09-09-2009, 18:53
I think they could as well have not bothered with that. I think they had greater plans, but it didnt work out and thus we got this instead. Its pretty pointless to randomise everything like they did. At the very least so should anyone wanting to use this skip one random part and pick that part so that it looks fairly balanced against the random factors. This is pretty easy to agree on if you run it twize with alternate sides.

Christine
09-09-2009, 19:51
I was also pretty dissapointed with what they did - a far better approach imo now is to simply have a look at old space hulk campaigns and get a feel for what they felt was a fair balance of forces and design something along those lines.

CRasterImage
09-09-2009, 19:56
I was also pretty dissapointed with what they did - a far better approach imo now is to simply have a look at old space hulk campaigns and get a feel for what they felt was a fair balance of forces and design something along those lines.

I agree. A list of the number of:

- SM Squads
- Starting GS blips
- GS blips per round
- GS spawn points
- square footage of map space used.

From that, a set of rules could be gleaned.

goroul
09-09-2009, 20:35
If the contents of that PDF could be extracted into an editable MS Word file, or other popular word processing format, then that could be useful as a template.

I had a quick go at this, unfortunatly the file is too large to upload to Warseer, so its on MegaUpload instead. It is pretty basic (i.e. there is almost certainly a better way to do this) and was made in Open Office, so hopefully the format wont be too messed up in MS Office!

Obviously just delete the scenario that is there at the moment and replace with your own,

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XQCZHB1J

Goroul

-here is hoping this now works...

Khaunshar
09-09-2009, 23:42
The problem is, how do you convey the subtle art of creating a good Space Hulk map in a text file? Its a bit like writing a book about riding a bicycle: Some things have to be experienced, and grow from that, rather than being expressed in words.
Good SH missions are pretty hard to create, and not even all of the original 12 are that great. As for the randomization, in my opinion the main protagonist on every space hulk map is just the layout. Depending on how the map is set up, 1 blip per turn can be enough even against 10 marines, or 3 blips per turn could be too little.

So, it all really hinges on the map layout, which you cant really teach. Thus, I dont think they could have done better, really. Making stuff purely random instead of massive tweaking doesnt accomplish much anything, since it doesnt figure in map layout at all.

strewart
10-09-2009, 02:51
I'm a bit unsure about game balance, I think it would have been better to come up with a points system rather than random numbers and door jamming/area secure. I like area secure, it represents the marine struggling to fight off an endless tide.

Door jam though? Who the hell opens doors? You get a free shot whenever you move, as you approach a door shoot the crap out of it so you don't have to waste an AP opening it. Doesn't seem as balanced.

Agatheron
10-09-2009, 02:57
Genestealers have to open doors or rip them to shreds... sometimes it is to their advantage to close them. :)

At any rate, I see this set as guidelines to get one started. After all, it's a set of guides to get people to think past the base 12 missions, and try to come up with ones that work... I tried out the 3E tileset application... what a treat... I think when combined with the PDF that GW provided, we can have a number of great third-party missions being generated. :)

I'm working on a few narrative ideas myself... :)

CRasterImage
10-09-2009, 03:24
I plan to find a way to rip the contents out of that PDF and make a Word .doc file out of it. Also an Open Office .odt file too.

WildAnimal
10-09-2009, 04:59
Ladies and Gentlemen!


They gave us a great new Space Hulk set, they rest is up to the community.

The 13 Mission was something someone did write up in a hour at GW office.

So please people, invent stuff your own, im thinking on doing somekind of competition on the best mission designed. Putting the 15 best missions in the contest into a "Mission Compendium". Anyway design your own stuff!

wilsongrahams
10-09-2009, 08:45
An alternative I am working on, requires you to randomly deploy the map by rolling a dice on a table for each piece, eg, entry point, room, junction, corridor, and any piece that can't be placed has a marine area secure instead. This is fine for creating a map before playing. One thing I'd love is to be able to deploy the map as I play though - up to line of sight as each marine turns a corner, but how would I sort the blips? Any thoughts? Or just roll for enemies randomly like in Warhammer Quest?

WildAnimal
10-09-2009, 09:41
the hidden map thing will be very hard to do, not impossible ofcourse, but it could take away the "blip-blip-Blip-Blip-BLIP-BLIP-BLIIIIIPP!!" Feeling that the genestealers are closing in, closer and closer, and clusters of blips waiting for an ambush.

But it sound really fantastic if exploritory map could be possible. You thinking on maybe trying to make it Solo play?

wilsongrahams
10-09-2009, 10:41
Yeah that's one option, though also in the Warhammer Quest style - having more than one player on the marine side and the stealers drones - if you have them deployed every other peice then there will be a lot more of them anyway.
It's still all on scraps of paper as are my ideas for using captains and chaplains. I'm also considering linking several maps together and playing them simultaneously with extra squads able to help the others etc for a real 'hulk' feel. This will require my spare tiles and permission to take over the floors of the house for a few hours... maybe i should start with buying flowers.

wilsongrahams
10-09-2009, 10:44
It may not relate to the map used, but maybe blips could deploy at random locations in the room and move 18cm per turn towards a current entry area on the map? Or have all open ends as entry areas until a marine gets closer in which case a new piece is placed and the entry areas moved to the ends of them? In fact I like this idea...

AndrewGPaul
10-09-2009, 10:56
An alternative I am working on, requires you to randomly deploy the map by rolling a dice on a table for each piece, eg, entry point, room, junction, corridor, and any piece that can't be placed has a marine area secure instead. This is fine for creating a map before playing. One thing I'd love is to be able to deploy the map as I play though - up to line of sight as each marine turns a corner, but how would I sort the blips? Any thoughts? Or just roll for enemies randomly like in Warhammer Quest?


The Citadel Journal, issue 1 had rules for this. You need a board marked out in 30mm squares (a silver marker on black card works best). Board sections are only placed when a Marine gains LOS. The 'stealer player can see the whole map (by looking at the briefing), and moves his blips on the empty board as if they were on the map. If the blips turn out to be incorrectly placed, they are lost - obviously it was only a rat in a pipe.

There were additional rules covering firing. Basically, a Marine could fire at a blip if it was in his range and fire arc. The 'stealer player rolls the dice in secret, and only tells the Marine "hit" or "miss" (a hit kills the entire blip). Obviously, if there's a wall between the Marine and the blip, it's an automatic miss. You should still roll the dice, though). If there's a door in the way, it's a "miss", but the door is destroyed (the 'stealer player should remember this when it later becomes revealed). if it's a hit, place the board section on the map. This may mean it's 'floating' on its own.

Flamers could also fire into the darkness. There were rules for 'splashback' if there turned out to be a wall or door between the Marine and his target. I'd suggest simply placing the flame marker as far forward as it can go. It may turn out that the Marine inadvertently flames his own section. Again, place the section where the flame marker ends up.

If you want to make it really tricky, remove any board sections to which no Marines have LOS at the end of each 'stealer turn. Either simply remove the 'stealers, or convert them back into blips.

The above rules are designed to work with pregenerated maps. For randomly generated maps, I'd suggest making any unconnected ends (except the Marine entry area) 'stealer entry zones. These will 'retreat' as more areas of the map are revealed.

wilsongrahams
10-09-2009, 11:39
Thanks for that - i didn't get any of the journals til issue 27 or something so missed that.

So the marine player doesn't know the map the stealer player could design it first too.

The random map thing will take some work else you may end up with no more options - and will be best with just a simple exterminate mission.

As for firing into the dark, I'd limit this personally as marine's would only shoot where they could see - in range of their suit lamps in case they hit a gas pipe and blew themselves up - it also makes play much easier. You could even limit all firing to twelve squares - assuming this is visibility range as per the overwatch rules. The faulty scanner in the pc game and the hidden map from this are my source of ideas - walking down a corridor to find it only ended in entry areas was scary as you'd have to fight your way back out again! Maybe having the objective room as the LAST room placed - ie number ten, would also mean you have to fight on til you have randomly rolled ten rooms.

AndrewGPaul
10-09-2009, 11:49
If you can find a copy of the Advanced Heroquest rulebook, you could perhaps use those rules for random map generation.

Alternatively, there's the geotile rules from Deathwing.

goroul
10-09-2009, 12:17
I plan to find a way to rip the contents out of that PDF and make a Word .doc file out of it. Also an Open Office .odt file too.

I've given this an attempt already, take a look at the link on page one, fingers crossed it actually works!

Goroul

torn
10-09-2009, 12:26
The PDF is nice for hand drawing but they had kind of built up mission 13 as a 'map generator' which meant everyone was expecting some kind of easy to print drop and drag board section thing. Im a little bit dissapointed and the random dice rolling is just pointless.

Advanced heroquest map generation might not work for space hulk as the corridors and rooms werent joined, they were adjacent. And it did take ages especially in a fast paced game. then again i suppose it only takes a little work to change the system for space hulk.

Rhamag
10-09-2009, 14:40
Based on the number of tiles in the box, I've come up with the following simple rules for random map generation. They're nowhere near perfect, but easy to remember.

Roll D6:

1,2 - Corridor. Roll D6 again for length. Any 6, you choose.
3,4,5 - Junction. Roll again for number of exits. (dead-end=1, corner=2, t-junction=3, crossroads=4) 5 or 6, you choose.
6 - Room. Roll again for number of exits, 5 or 6 = special room.

Things like Marine-controlled areas, ladders, disposal chutes etc. are up to you. If you get too many dead-ends, take -em off and re-roll those sections.

Have fun, post any comments so we can try to get a working set of rules between us.

AndrewGPaul
10-09-2009, 15:23
The PDF is nice for hand drawing but they had kind of built up mission 13 as a 'map generator' which meant everyone was expecting some kind of easy to print drop and drag board section thing.

Did they? IIRC, all they said was that it would be a mission generator. Anything else is, again, fanboy hype. :)

Rhamag, you need something in there to say when a corridor ends - perhapd roll a D6 for length, on a 6 place nothing.

Rhamag
12-09-2009, 17:40
Rhamag, you need something in there to say when a corridor ends - perhapd roll a D6 for length, on a 6 place nothing.

I was thinking just to roll again at the end of corridors, it miht be another corridor, room or a junction/corner. The dead-ends and end-points help to tie up the loose ends.

Like I said, it's not perfect but I've had some nice looking maps from it, and it's easy to remember. Thanks for the input though. Nice to know someone reads my posts.