View Full Version : How much magic defense is enough?

21-09-2009, 23:37
OK so im off to the GT in November and so im in the process of tweaking my Slaaneshii daemon list. The problem im having though is that outside heralds of tzeentch and their one spellbreaker, there is not much i can do in the magic defense department. Therefore i pose this question to you: How much magic defense is enough?

I understand that usually its either all or nothing on the offense (also giving good defense due to the amount of mages), but with so many heavy magic armies out there, is it enough nowadays to have 4DD and one scroll? (i do realise that as a slaanesh player i can mitigate magic to some degree due to my speed but its nice to hear peoples views on the topic in general).


21-09-2009, 23:45
Is this a post to bemoan a weakness in the daemon list? If so there's not much sympathy out there for you.

It probably depends partly on where the GT is, I know the ones in the UK tend to be extremely cutthroat and 4dd +Scroll would be nearly useless against some opponents. Whereas other places tend to encourage softer lists (although they all seem to be trending towards slightly scaled back 'ard boys tournaments).

22-09-2009, 00:11
Is this a post to bemoan a weakness in the daemon list? If so there's not much sympathy out there for you.

haha, please dont misunderstand me. Im just putting the question in the context of my choices for the GT, and it certainly wasnt intended to moan about daemons lack of anti magic outside of horror-spam.

I have been looking around the forums (and elsewhere) and have seen alot of variety in they types of magic defense taken by different players (ranging from 9DD lizards to 2 lvl1s and 4 scrolls). Its almost a given that Lizards and Vamps will take a fair amount of magic, and it mostly depends on the local metagame.

However, for a low/medium magic list (say, a lvl 3-4 with a lvl1-2 or a couple of lvl2s), is it even worth investing more points into defense? tbh im not too sure.


22-09-2009, 00:21
Well, there's always active defence to consider (hunting mages, screening, etc...), though I'm not really familiar with the Daemon book so I can't say how far this is possible for you.

22-09-2009, 00:50
from experience, your army need to generate at least 4 - 5 dispell dice (this # includes the free DDs) to dispell at least 1 major spell per turn (eg: that one big VC spell).

If you are going minimum magic for your army, that one magic hero would also need 1 dispel scroll, if not, just rely on the 4 - 5 DD.

however, if you think your army is fast enough (2nd turn charge type of army) you can actually risk it and drop magic defense altogether.

22-09-2009, 00:53
Think of it like this. Every scroll you have Makes it one level better. So if you have 3 Dispel Dice and a scroll, it is Meh. If you have 5 Dispel Dice and 2 Scrolls, its good.

Number of Dispel Dice:
2: Pathetic
11+:You laugh at magic offence
For you I would suggest taking a Lvl 3 or 4 Keeper of Secrets and 2 Lvl 2 Heralds. This nets you 2 army dice, +2, +1, +1 for a total of 6 Dice, and a very good amount of magic offence as well. You can put in a Tzeench herald with a Dispel Scroll if you want, giving you a total of 7 Dispel Dice and A scroll, which is very very good. I myself never leave home without at least 5 Dice and 2 Scrolls, or 7-8 Dice and one scroll.

Also, ALWAYS take the Standard of Sundering

22-09-2009, 00:56
From what I know, the magic offense is either nonexistent, or unending, at local tournaments. You either come to the table with 10+ PD, or you come with 3-4 (from the scroll caddy). Magic defense seems similar- you either have an insane amount of DD (courtesy of the same folks who are generating your ungodly levels of PD), or you take it in the chin and just jog over and whack their wizards.

In my opinion, unless you're a magical powerhouse yourself, you really cannot do much against your opponent's onslaught, so take whatever dispel scrolls you can and just tough it out until you get into close combat.

22-09-2009, 01:29
The magic defense on my Daemon army is only 2 DD and the standard of sundering, which means pretty much none. Speed does help though and I regularly take on VC with no problem.

22-09-2009, 05:38
My favourite magic defence is to kill the casters.
To kill them you have to get to them and have enough attacks to kill them.

Some casters are harder to kill than others, unsurprisingly these come in some of the most dangerous armies.

Hard casters to kill: Slaan, greater daemons
Killable casters (but not easy): vampires, chaos lord wizards, lord orc (not goblin casters) wizards with high mobility. (Heralds of tzeentch are irritating too since they have 4+ ward)
Easy to kill: everything else (provided you can get to it).

22-09-2009, 07:10
The thing I hate most about this whole "compulsory magic defense" thing is that it irks me to no end to end up facing a dwarf army, or an army that simply ignores magic.

Are dwarfs and such armies bad enough that they deserve a, say, a 200+ point handicap from your scroll caddies?

22-09-2009, 07:25
I would take at least one scroll caddy to be able to scroll at least one or two really nasty spells that comes flying your way before you have the chance of engaging the enemy in close combat (assuming you dont play LD bomb and need to cast magic yourself). In this case I would probably take one Tzeentch herald with one scroll (on disc) + something to make him more hitty so that he is useful also after turn 1 since he is not likely to cast any spells.

22-09-2009, 07:29
Magic Defence Lite is a single scroll caddy, but that means you better be using your units to get into contact ASAP and break your opponent, hopefully scooping up his arcane assets in the process.

22-09-2009, 08:44
Hello all,

thankyou very much for your comments, they have helped me greately. I have decided to go the route of minimal magic (and defense. so 4dd and one spellbreaker) for the tourney simply because a. I dont want to invest too many points in what will turn out to be a mediocre magic phase, and b. Slaanesh daemons are quick enough to mitigate the effects of most magic further then turn 2-3.

thanks again,