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nedius
04-10-2009, 16:36
Hi there,

Did any of you play the old Space Hulk PC game? The originl one, not Vengence of the Blood Angels?

You may remember that some of the maps were 'hidden', they were slowly revealed as you progressed through the level. The in-game mechanic was one in which your map was revealed 10 squares forward and 3 either side, giving you a sort of 'scanning rectangle' with which to reveal the map.

I'd like to create a mission based on this idea - one in which the terminators have to explore the map to reveal it. They will have a rough idea of where they need to get to (i.e. a board edge), but won't know exactly which way is the shortest, easiest etc.

I've played around with a couple of ideas, and this mechanic slows the game down no matter how I think it through. It's an interesting change of pace, and requires the GS player to act almost like a 'gamesmaster', with a hidden map print out on which events (such as blip movement) can be recorded.

Anyway, here's my current method.

As a player moves through the map, each time they enter a new tile, their movement is inturupted so that new tiles may be added. All tiles within two of the tile that has been landed on are revealled. The GS player can use some discresion - a tile that is the last one of a long straight corridor that ends in a dead end and is only one extra tile away could also be revealed.

I've got to go off line for a bit, so will post a pic example later. But what do you think? How else could this work?

thefan
04-10-2009, 16:47
The Citadel Journal 1 (1994)

This edition contains rules for playing Space Hulk with an unknown map for the Marine player. The map is only revealed as the Marine player moves his forces around. The Genestealer player is not affected and must act as a GM. Also included is a single mission using these rules called Supply Lines.

There are holes everywhere in these rules, they are very vague with respect to describing every situation that could happen. Furthermore, they are not designed for use with extended forces beyond the official game. I've played these rules once and never liked them. They are very messy and slow the game down - that's why they are alternative rules and optional. However, they do provide a different twist to the game Quote from "Expanding the Hulk"


Hope this helps

CRasterImage
04-10-2009, 21:11
Sounds like it would be an intense experiance. But how would you handle blip movement? Would blips be unable to enter the map in areas that the marine player hasn't seen?

Doom, the boardgame had a similar map-revealing concept. They handled it by saying that monsters can enter from any known square that the marines had no line of sight to. Maybe blips could be handled that way?

nedius
04-10-2009, 21:47
The GS player would have a hidden copy of the map, maybe mounted onto thick card or foam core. Blip movement could be handled with map pins, or some other marking device

In the missions in the main campaign, the un-mapped mission doesn't have entry points. All the blips enter via ambush. So they'd often arrive on the map. In those missions with entry points, the GS player would need to use the above mentioned recording method.

So how could it work?

CRasterImage
04-10-2009, 23:04
So how could it work?

You could do something like this:

- Blips may be placed anywhere outside the line of sight of all Terminators. Including squares just outside a revealed map tile. (see image below)

- Blips must be placed more than 6 squares away from any Terminator.

- Blips cannot also be moved during the same turn that they are placed. They must lurk till the next turn.

In this diagram, all three blips are legal places to spawn blips.
Blip A is spawned in a hallway the terminator has already seen and been through. Blips B and C are spawned just outside of a map tile. In an area that the terminator hasn't seen yet. All 3 blips are more than 6 steps away from the terminator.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/39/85129682.jpg

This is kind of how it works in Doom.

I don't know if it will work well or not. But I think that having a second map that is only visible to the genestealer player would be problematic.

AndrewGPaul
05-10-2009, 00:35
Is that Terminator and blip a new addition to the TileSet I spy? :)

CRasterImage
05-10-2009, 00:42
Ya, I am just experimenting at the moment. That is all I got.

I also have a 3x3 flamer effect experiment:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9656/flamero.jpg

AndrewGPaul
05-10-2009, 08:34
Groovy! I like that.

Patriarch
05-10-2009, 12:32
Alternative: GS player uses entry points as per his hidden map, however in order to use an entry point he must be able to connect it up to the existing map on the table in some way. Blips moving around the board must reveal the path they are taking (a bit like voluntary/inoluntary blip conversion).

So if the marines have only revealed a few rooms, the GS decides if he wants to bring some blips on already - if so, he adds on enough corridor and room sections (as shown on his map) to trace a route back to the entry point. If there is more than one route, the GS player is free to choose it. If he wants to leave the marines in the dark, he sets up a growing pile of blips lurking in the entry area. When the entry area is finally placed on the board, the stack of blips is also placed.

We can justify this effect by saying the movement of the blips in the marines' sensoriums will sketch out the corridors they are moving through, without revealing the rest of the map. The GS player has to decide whether it is worth revealing more of the map to be able to use more entry areas.

The GS can reveal any board section at any time he wants (e.g. to allow blips to move from one part of the map to another), but once it is down, it's down, even if he changes his mind about where he wants to move.

nedius
05-10-2009, 15:30
Interesting ideas! I like the 'ambush' like ideas from Doom.

As for the blip revealing the map, it's an interesting idea and I'll try it out. However, in the PC game (which I'm sort of trying to replicate for the board), blips don't appear on the scanners at all until the map is revealed.

thanks for the ideas!

wilsongrahams
05-10-2009, 16:14
Personally I'd take the easy option with blips and have all open ends as genestealer entry points and move them back as the board is placed. It doesn't affect the game much at all - possibly you get attacked sooner in the game but no more regular after the initial contact.

eriochrome
05-10-2009, 17:16
Space Hulk Might make a great game for double blind play since gaming groups might have access to two sets. 2 Sets, 2 Players, 1 Ref.

Space Marines can only see parts of map in line of site while genestealer knows the whole map but does not know the termi locations unless they are in line of sight.

Wickey the Viking
30-10-2009, 19:58
Space Marines can only see parts of map in line of site while genestealer knows the whole map but does not know the termi locations unless they are in line of sight.
So the GS can only spawn on entrypoints "seen" by the marine player?

If this makes the game less interesting, you could try out taking a random event, just like in Warhammer Quest. Except here you use a dice. 1, 2 and 3 does nothing, 4 and 5 spawns one blip at the end of the last revealed boardsection in front of the marine, 6 spawns two blips.


Making it totally random? Go WHQ. Make a card for every boardsection, add some GS entry points and shuffle it all together. Split te remaining deck when you draw an intersection... etc, etc.

Hellebore
01-11-2009, 01:55
This might seem a little wierd but you could have the blips moving around the table in imitation of the board without actually putting it down.

Use the map as a pin board (or magnets) to show where the marines are in comparison to the stealers and then place blips on the table in open space and move them towards the marines in as accurate a way as you can. The important thing is to note where they are on your secret map so that if a marine (or later the stealer) actually moves into a piece of board you can accurately place the blip the right number of squares from the marine.

This doesn't have to be too accurate though, afterall the stealer player is trying to estimate the map from the tiles revealed in open space. So long as the blip moves in a correct imitation of the map (ie 3 squares forward, one left two into room) it should be fine. The marine player should also be told how many squares there are between them and the blips if they come within auspex range (see below).

This would necessitate removing the timer though.

So, the marines' movement reveals new tiles and they can see blips on the board but can't see where they are exactly in relation to themselves. The auspex tells them that there are 'multiple life signs within 20 metres' but not what the hulk looks like around them.

The marine player can then use the blip movement as a sort of echo location to get a rough estimate of the corridor layout (simply by observing how the blips move on the table).

For added fun you could have a auspex sweep roll at the end of the stealer turn. Every blip within 3D6 squares of a marine is revealed.

Hellebore

fiore hellheart
01-11-2009, 13:37
If i were to do it, i would have it as helbore is proposing. Simply get a massive 30mm grid and lay pieces that come into line of sight as the game continues. because it is on a 30mm grid you can show where stealers are, without relealing the piece they are in. This makes it most like a real situation as the marines can see where the blips are, but not what sections they are in.

nedius
01-11-2009, 15:03
An interesting idea... But it would be hard for people to get easy access to such a large grid! Thanks for the suggestions tho. I may collect them, so people playing the map have a range of options.

fiore hellheart
01-11-2009, 15:42
An interesting idea... But it would be hard for people to get easy access to such a large grid! Thanks for the suggestions tho. I may collect them, so people playing the map have a range of options.

Yea, thats the only downside really,

One thing that i dont like about the other methods of using a range is that you are limiting your lines of fire. The bolter has unlimited range after all so it makes sense that they can see that far. Still good luck with whatever you try to do. And if you give any methods a go please be sure to post back here and tell us how it went ect..

Hellebore
04-11-2009, 03:09
Well, if you don't mind printing it on A4 pages here is a 30mm grid.

A4 is 210 x 297mm so it's exactly divisible by 3 widthwise but not length wise. You'd probably want to cut off the bottom piece.

Hellebore