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Vladimir Pugh
13-10-2009, 15:15
Can I put my Inquisitor Lord and his retinue in a Land Raider Crusader? The codex only mentions a Land Raider at 250 Points. Is there any reason why he can't be transported in a Crusader? :confused:

Lord Damocles
13-10-2009, 15:17
Can I put my Inquisitor Lord and his retinue in a Land Raider Crusader?
You answered your own question.

No.


Reason? The Crusader is a rare variant, and so the chances of it turning up outside of Asartes forces are next to none.

polymphus
13-10-2009, 15:23
Well, if he's an allied Inquisitor in a Marine army he can grab a ride in a crusader and use it as his own for the game. But no, he can't buy one as his own dedicated transport.

Karhedron
13-10-2009, 15:37
I don't think the Crusader model had been made at the time the Daemonhunters codex was released (although it probably was in the case of Witchhunters).

I doubt it would be an overpowered combination and I would not object to playing against it but RAW you cannot do it.

Vladimir Pugh
13-10-2009, 15:50
So I can't by one for the Inquisitor. Could I buy one as a Heavy Support choice and then let the Inquisitor hitch a ride in it (without making taking Space Marine allies)? Because it's in the Daemonhunters codex, under the HS choices.

polymphus
13-10-2009, 15:52
A crusader? Really? Don't have the DH codex so I'll take your word for it. If so, then you can do that just fine. For some reason when I say 'inquisitor' I thought Witch Hunters.

But yeah, if it's a Heavy Support choice, then you can use a HS slot to buy him a land raider.

Vladimir Pugh
13-10-2009, 16:06
Yeah, I was surprised myself to see it in there.

Great, thanks for the help. :)

Cry of the Wind
13-10-2009, 16:24
So I can't by one for the Inquisitor. Could I buy one as a Heavy Support choice and then let the Inquisitor hitch a ride in it (without making taking Space Marine allies)? Because it's in the Daemonhunters codex, under the HS choices.

Just remember that it is a Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader which means you must have a Grey Knights Hero HQ choice in the army to take one.

Kroggath
13-10-2009, 17:10
This issue came up in a huge 8000 point game me and three of ym freinds played at a local GW. Current rules are allies can use the transports of the allies they are paired with. So my Warboss and his Nob retinue were flying around in a DE Raider most of the game. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but provided you have either Grey Knights in your army list, or are Allied with Space Marines or even in a fun fun game, Allied with Chaos Space Marines (which would be a regular Land Raider but my point remains valid) then yes. You can.

RexTalon
13-10-2009, 19:13
So my Warboss and his Nob retinue were flying around in a DE Raider most of the game.

That's wrong. You know it's wrong. Right now the only actual allies allowed by any codex are the ones listed in the DH/WH codex. So, yes, allies can use transports, but the only allies are those few imperial ones.
However, if you're playing a friendly game and all players agree, then your orks can do what ever the hell they want.

Shadow Marine
13-10-2009, 20:41
I was going to suggest using Forgeworld's IA2 update but even that doesn't allow Inquistors to take the LR crusader!

Ph4lanx
13-10-2009, 20:52
Just remember that it is a Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader which means you must have a Grey Knights Hero HQ choice in the army to take one.

QFE. This is your answer.

Kroggath
15-10-2009, 19:33
That's wrong. You know it's wrong. Right now the only actual allies allowed by any codex are the ones listed in the DH/WH codex. So, yes, allies can use transports, but the only allies are those few imperial ones.
However, if you're playing a friendly game and all players agree, then your orks can do what ever the hell they want.

Not wrong. I know it's not wrong. Grand Tournement (I believe was the example he gave, could be wrong) says its not wrong. Blackshirt said its not wrong. So I'm going with what he said.

Especially considering what I meant by "allies" was that my 200 point Ork army was on the same team as my freinds 200 point Dark Eldar force. We didn't share any Force Organization charts, just two armies fighting on the same side.

But I also have no intention of ever playing ina GT because the players at Games Day got on my nerves enough. So it's kinda a moot point for me, I much prefer freindly pick up games with the three or four players I choose to play against.

Charistoph
15-10-2009, 21:21
Just remember that it is a Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader which means you must have a Grey Knights Hero HQ choice in the army to take one.

I don't remember THAT rule at all. Is it in the unit description, or is it in the army list?

Purge the Heretic
16-10-2009, 04:16
The force that is allied in may not include heavy support, only the options listed on page 21 of codex demon hunters. therefore in order to have a landraider crusader, it would require a demonhunters core list with WH allies.

mdauben
16-10-2009, 05:12
I don't remember THAT rule at all. Is it in the unit description, or is it in the army list?
In Codex: Daemonhunters page 32, in the box titled Important Note: on the left side of the page it says you need to have a GK Hero in your force in order to field a LR, LRC, or Dread from the Heavy Support section of the DH list. This only effects choices taken as Heavy Support. The LR that can be taken by an Inquisitor as a dedicated transport does not need a GK Hero.


The force that is allied in may not include heavy support, only the options listed on page 21 of codex demon hunters. therefore in order to have a landraider crusader, it would require a demonhunters core list with WH allies.
Not sure what you are talking about? The LRC is a listed Heavy Support choice in Codex: Daemonhunters (p. 32), they do not need to take allied WH or SM in order to field one. :confused:


Not wrong. I know it's not wrong. Grand Tournement (I believe was the example he gave, could be wrong) says its not wrong. Blackshirt said its not wrong. So I'm going with what he said.
Either your "blackshirt" didn't know what he was talking about or you misunderstood him. There are no provisions in the rulebook for taking allies. The only place in the official rules that specifically allows allies are Codex: Daemonhunters and Codex: Witchhunters. By the RAW no one else can take allies. The latest GT rules specificaly say that only GK and DH can take allies, and only as premitted in their respective codexes.


Especially considering what I meant by "allies" was that my 200 point Ork army was on the same team as my freinds 200 point Dark Eldar force.
Whenever you play a game like this, you are getting into house rules. You must decide amoung yourselves how to handle interactions between such allies since there are no offical rules allowing or addressing it. Sorry, but allowing Orks to ride in an "allied" DE vehicle is a house rule and has no bearing on how to play games using the offical rules.

Tomalock
16-10-2009, 06:34
At the GT last year, atleast the one in Vegas, there was a doubles tourny on friday before the main event kicked off. I believe what he is saying is correct from that, if my memory serves me. If you only play the game by what is in the rule book and nothing else then you probably shouldn't go to events, especially those organized by GW (the mission rules in Ard Boyz would probably give you a stroke from what you have been saying in this thread).

mdauben
16-10-2009, 13:48
At the GT last year, atleast the one in Vegas, there was a doubles tourny on friday before the main event kicked off.
I admit I had never heard of that at a GT. Most of the GT rules I have seen have been very straight forward implementations of the RAW. This sounds like it was some sort of side game rather than part of the main tournament?

Still, what happened there IMO are special scenario rules for that game. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, or that such special rules can't produce fun and challanging games so I certainly have no objection to playing games like that. However, you have to recognize that they are special rules for a specific event, and you can't apply such "rulings" to discussions of the offical rules. ;)

Lord Lorne Walkier
17-10-2009, 01:45
Why do you want to use a Crusader? Maybe you want to use the full transport of 16 for some large retinue mob? Is the more common Phobos not to your liking? Have you considered a Prometheus? With the IA rules from forge world the Prometheus is a fun time. 12 twin-linked heavy bolter shots can be punishing. Fluff wise it will bring a lot to your games and it is a nice looking model, with the additions of the forge world Land Raider doors.

Spacker
17-10-2009, 14:06
This issue came up in a huge 8000 point game me and three of ym freinds played at a local GW. Current rules are allies can use the transports of the allies they are paired with. So my Warboss and his Nob retinue were flying around in a DE Raider most of the game. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but provided you have either Grey Knights in your army list, or are Allied with Space Marines or even in a fun fun game, Allied with Chaos Space Marines (which would be a regular Land Raider but my point remains valid) then yes. You can.

In an Apocalypse game that would be fine. Outside of Apocalypse, as already stated by a few people it would take house rules to allow this sort of mix of armies outside of that.

Tomalock
17-10-2009, 18:18
I think everyone is making some assumptions about allies. In the rule book GW really does not cover multiple people to a side in a game. However, these games can and do happen often (especially at my LGS). The allies rules found in the DH/WH codex are only designed for what you can take in *your* army list, not what an "ally" on your same side, but outside your force organization, brings. The only part that really comes close is the Multiple Detatchment games, which while aimed at single players using multiple force organization charts, could be applied to multiple players on a side. However it does not clarify how to interact with your allied player's equipment and rules.

You can interpret the main rule book in one of two ways. 1) There can never be more than a single person to a side in standard missions or 2) They can be there but its up to you to decide how to make everything work. Going beyond transports, there are many characters (especially in C:SM) that give bonuses to "friendly" units. What defines a friendly unit? Should the ork player you are allied with on a side be friendly? At my LGS we always interpret "friendly" as a unit that is not openly hostile towards you, ie that ork army that you are allied with for the game.

I do not believe its fair to say what can and cannot be done from the rule book in standard missions because GW does not tell us. This makes the special events GW runs all the more valid when attempting to discuss "official rules" because there are none in the rule book. If you actually read the section on transports not once does it specifiy that only your troops can use them. In fact if you look at the Dedicated Transport box, in the middle of the 2nd paragraph it states: "After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly infantry unit . . ." So it comes back to what makes a unit friendly? Which is of course subject to individual interpertation. However, as I previously stated, we choose that to mean anyone you are not openly hostile with in that game. So if you are a Space Marine allied with a bunch of Orks, then those Orks can hope in and go for a ride.

Gropius
17-10-2009, 18:30
Question is: Is the Inquisitor allowed to use the Grey Knight Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader at all? While the Land Raider in the dedicated transport section has a capacity of 10 "models", the two Land Raider entries in the heavy support section state that they can carry either "Grey Knights in Power Armour" or "Grey Knight Terminators". By RAW Inquisitors, their retinues and Storm Troopers can't use them.

Tomalock
17-10-2009, 18:39
That is a good point, one I have not really paid much attention to in my recent games with a 5 land raider list. Technically that is correct as it is not addressed in the Errata. Yay for more antiquated DH rules discovered every day!