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Cool_Mint
16-10-2009, 11:59
Is it just my imagination or are a lot - I'd almost say the majority - of 40K fans misery-mongers? :skull:

I wish I could find a clip on YouTube from the old BBC "The Fast Show" sketch about the weirdy-beardy landscape artist who goes into a rage every time he sees the colour black. "oh what a lovely day for painting, look at those lovely green trees and babbling brook, just the tiniest little grey wisp of cloud floating away into the distance.. grey, like concrete, grey, grey, charcoal..dark, black.. black! black! black!" (starts stabbing the easel with a palette knife) "DEATH! BLACK! BLACK! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!"

I know 40K is supposed to be apocolyptic but why do so many people revel in burn-babies-in-hell storytelling? You might think I'm exaggerating but take a look at the discussion threads and you'll find plenty of examples. Isn't is a bit nihilistic?

madprophet
16-10-2009, 12:18
In a tongue in cheek sort of way, it is. WH40k is humorous, but it's dark humor.

DarkMatter2
16-10-2009, 12:21
Yeah, it's OTT-ness has always been tongue in cheek.

Agnar the Howler
16-10-2009, 12:27
Is it just my imagination or are a lot - I'd almost say the majority - of 40K fans misery-mongers? :skull:

I wish I could find a clip on YouTube from the old BBC "The Fast Show" sketch about the weirdy-beardy landscape artist who goes into a rage every time he sees the colour black. "oh what a lovely day for painting, look at those lovely green trees and babbling brook, just the tiniest little grey wisp of cloud floating away into the distance.. grey, like concrete, grey, grey, charcoal..dark, black.. black! black! black!" (starts stabbing the easel with a palette knife) "DEATH! BLACK! BLACK! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj84tfS7ag4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRJxafiqHvw

^^ Like those?

Mojaco
16-10-2009, 12:33
Maybe you've checked the wrogn threads, as I've never noticed it so much. The novels are full of it, sure, but that is what 40k is. It's the same as people laughing at horror movies ("drag me to hell" is hilarious); the OTT nonsense of it all is just fun.

Turnabout
16-10-2009, 12:44
Then there's the other side to things, which draws a different crowd altogether.

Essentially...those who play a more human, good-aligned army...Imperial Guard in particular:P Just because in such a gothic, terrifying, brutal, sadistic world such as in 40k....there's also a small ray of hope and light and all those other things Guard players (like myself) go gaga over.

Well...that's what I think anyway.
Maybe you're right though... and a lot of players are a bit on the bleak side. Not all of course...don't want to generalise...but maybe... a higher proportion than those who play Beach Volleyball for example.

So yeah, who knows?
You'd probably need to take a survey of the likes never seen in the worldwide 40k community to get even close to the truth. In other words...we can only really speculate:P

sigur
16-10-2009, 14:12
...those who play a more human, good-aligned army...

There are no "good-aligned" armies.

The Orange
16-10-2009, 14:15
Um...nope, can't say that anyone I've played against fits the Emo stereotype, we all just like playing toy soldiers :D.

Sildani
16-10-2009, 14:19
With cool-looking tanks 'n' stuff! The background makes me chuckle. I imagine Holy Terra crawling with Monty Python-esque monks and pilgrims. THUMP!

Deadmanwade
16-10-2009, 14:24
Read the Ciaphis Cain novels.
Very GrimDark!!!

As for there being no good armies, how about the uh...um.... yeah.

MrBims
16-10-2009, 14:25
There are no "good-aligned" armies.

There are factions whose situations we can sympathize with, and factions with whom we can't sympathize with. The Imperium (probably along with Tau and Eldar close behind) is the closest thing the 40k universe has to what we could call "good", even if it is an inhumane theocracy that is rivaled in its carelessness and brutality only by its size. Very few people are going to look at the Imperium the same way they look at Necrons, Dark Eldar, any variety of Chaos, etc. The Imperium at least has reasons for many of the horrible things they do in the name of continued survival, even if that can never excuse them, and there is no shortage of genuinely upstanding people in the Imperium, even if they are outnumbered and overpowered by the hegemonic bureaucracies and militaries above them.

Luisjoey
16-10-2009, 15:38
As somebody defines ... "is the same world as the ours... but darker"

GideonRavenor
16-10-2009, 15:55
The hyperbole of 40K is what makes it so original, be it in a humorous way or an entirely serious, 'Orwell to the max' manner. It's quite beautiful in its own way.

TheSmilingGoat
16-10-2009, 16:30
There are no "good-aligned" armies.


there are no "good" armys, just evil armys and less evil armys :D .......and orks :chrome:

Shrapnelsmile
16-10-2009, 16:34
40K is no more brutal and dystopic than the anti-humanitarians and religious fanatics in our world it is modeled after. Monotheism is the root of all evil, and in 40K, every witch hunter and Word Bearer has their definition of what is right.

Malorian
16-10-2009, 16:35
Well overall I wouldn't agree as most 40k players I know are cheerful, but when you compare them to fantasy players it does seem like the fantasy players are having more fun while the 40k players are more gloomy when they play.

Maybe it's just that playing with tanks and guns seems more serious (and real) than playing with magic and dragons.

(This is NOT a fantasy vs 40k comment meant to start a debate, just an observation.)

fluffstalker
16-10-2009, 16:42
There are factions whose situations we can sympathize with, and factions with whom we can't sympathize with. The Imperium (probably along with Tau and Eldar close behind) is the closest thing the 40k universe has to what we could call "good", even if it is an inhumane theocracy that is rivaled in its carelessness and brutality only by its size. Very few people are going to look at the Imperium the same way they look at Necrons, Dark Eldar, any variety of Chaos, etc. The Imperium at least has reasons for many of the horrible things they do in the name of continued survival, even if that can never excuse them, and there is no shortage of genuinely upstanding people in the Imperium, even if they are outnumbered and overpowered by the hegemonic bureaucracies and militaries above them.

This ^. The Imperium aint pretty but its sure as hell alot better than the alternatives.

MrBims
16-10-2009, 17:43
40K is no more brutal and dystopic than the anti-humanitarians and religious fanatics in our world it is modeled after. Monotheism is the root of all evil, and in 40K, every witch hunter and Word Bearer has their definition of what is right.

What a great post, please make more of them. I especially like the "monotheism is the root of all evil" part. A+++, would read again.

Fraser Green
16-10-2009, 18:37
I remember back in the 80s when 40k was very tongue in cheek and more cartoony, so today I find the GRIMDARK attempts to be super-serious and appeal to the 13 year olds in Slipknot hoodies who play Black Legion even funnier, but in a "laughing at it" rather than "laughing with it" fashion. This isn't a "I liked it before it was cool" post, but I find 40k to be so OTT it comes full circle and is almost self-parodying, intentionally or otherwise.

djinn8
16-10-2009, 21:27
That Cherub business got to you didn't it Cool Mint.

ED: I suppose I should add something if I'm going to post :angel:

I think part of the reason some people focus on the GRIMDARKness of 40K is because they don't want to admit that they play with toys. The line of thought could go a little something like this:

"I'm no man child! This game includes child mutilation for god sake! They wouldn't put that in a kids game so therefor my interest is justified on an adult level."

SnakeWind
16-10-2009, 21:45
Well, yeah. It's a lot of joy cutting arms, legs and what more to create mad and original miniatures. It's also big fun watching an old lady cursing an innocent girl to hell. In real life, I can't kill a fly...

Let's hope we can keep some worlds apart ;)

Johnnyfrej
16-10-2009, 22:02
Nope, I've never seen an emo-40k player. I've seen 40k players freakout, but nobody that wears black nailpolish/lipstick and never shuts up about how the Emperor never loved him.

Revelations
16-10-2009, 22:12
We could go into a pretty deep philosphical discussion on the concepts surrounding the enjoyment of self fulfilling depravities or the justifications for participating in a table top game full of sociological and moral quandries...

...or we could cheer at the top of our lungs as my Chains Fist rips an Ork to pieces and scatters his shredded corpse all over his friends faces.

Which sounds more fun?

To whoever mentioned Drag me to Hell, I think I suprised most of the audience when I jumped out of my seat at the end of the movie and started cheering at the top of my lungs. Best final 30 seconds of a movie... EVER! Although that could be because I have deep seated psycologicl problems, at least that's what the voices in my head tell me.

LonelyPath
16-10-2009, 22:49
I've yet to run into a emo gamer, but i have persnally played against nihilistic gamers that take everything as if it's the end of the world. I recommend avoiding them at all costs!

As for no good armies, how about the Grey Knights? They're holier than thou and say that anyone who disagrees must be a heretic and purged. How can you say thay're not "good"? heheheh. Yeah, I am being slightly sarcastic there ;)

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2009, 23:24
...or we could cheer at the top of our lungs as my Chains Fist rips an Ork to pieces and scatters his shredded corpse all over his friends faces.

This. That is all.

madd0ct0r
16-10-2009, 23:49
Indeed. Chain Sowrds, Chain Fists, Chain Axes, Evisarators and Chain Gangs.

40K is one part black humour; one part gallows humor and one part scribbling a cock on the gallows as you go past.

It appealed to me as a Slipknot hoody wearing 13yr old. (Chaos. Chaso SoB specifically)
It appeals to me now as a slightly less angry 23yr old. (Orks DeathSkullz, OTT Sisters)

Oguleth
17-10-2009, 00:04
What? Where?

I see more cynisism (god I can never write that right)-hammer than emo-hammer; the whole "ray of hope" thing can go for all races really, cept Tyranids I suppose. If it stops being over the top, it ends up being just like the gazillion other fantasy and science fiction settings..

darker4308
17-10-2009, 00:27
I've seen one emo 40k player. I think he was mainly a painter though. I wouldn't call 40k emo. It's more as everyone else has put it "grimdark". It deal with transhumanist issues and gallows humor, but is overall a work of juvie war porn.

That isn't really emo.... Emo is as my students on a thrice weekly cycle remind me is a style of clothing associated with listening to too much dashboard confessional.

"And this bitter pill is leaving you, with such an angry mouth....."

Tokugawa100
17-10-2009, 01:06
There are no "good-aligned" armies.

There are no good alligned armies but there are good individuals.
In my mind the Imperium is probably the closest to good and being as good as they can in a universe filled with monsters.

DuskRaider
17-10-2009, 02:09
I've seen one emo 40k player. I think he was mainly a painter though. I wouldn't call 40k emo. It's more as everyone else has put it "grimdark". It deal with transhumanist issues and gallows humor, but is overall a work of juvie war porn.

That isn't really emo.... Emo is as my students on a thrice weekly cycle remind me is a style of clothing associated with listening to too much dashboard confessional.

"And this bitter pill is leaving you, with such an angry mouth....."

You have to understand, using the word "emo" makes you cool on the internet. Everything is "emo" with kids these days. It's about as old as Chuck Norris jokes. :rolleyes:

Coasty
17-10-2009, 02:53
40K isn't emo; it's side-splittingly funny. Each and every battle a comic masterpiece.

Oh, and by the way:

WAAAGH!

Tokugawa100
17-10-2009, 03:08
40K isn't emo; it's side-splittingly funny. Each and every battle a comic masterpiece.

Oh, and by the way:

WAAAGH!

I was about to say, specially if you got some green guys in the mix bossin little green guys about while beating each other to a bloody pulp.
I dont see the comedy side of other armies especially Eldar, I see the insanity of it all.
Ive only really found orks to be comedy and sometimes guard because they are treated like cockroaches rather then people.

jesusjohn
17-10-2009, 08:58
You say it's grimdark now, wait for the movie. They can't make a movie that will show bolter shells going off and chainswords cutting people up. I forsee 40k taking a turn towards power ranger hood in the near future. Posiibly with a comedy furry animal side kick too.

Ianos
17-10-2009, 09:07
You say it's grimdark now, wait for the movie. They can't make a movie that will show bolter shells going off and chainswords cutting people up. I forsee 40k taking a turn towards power ranger hood in the near future. Posiibly with a comedy furry animal side kick too.

Why cannot they? 40k has been getting darker every year by the way. Just try to remember the old minies and especially the Orks.

Emperor's Scourge
17-10-2009, 09:10
This thread has made me curious to see someone's rendition of "emo" orks.

Get to it anonymous internet hordes.

Imperialis_Dominatus
17-10-2009, 09:16
What do you mean, they can't make a movie with chainswords and bolter rounds? I think it'd be awesome. And showcase the insane and hilarious nature of 40k's universe. If they can't do it justice with a little CGI blood and gore, I'll be a sad panda.

EDIT: In before not your personal army Emperor's Scourge. :P

Emperor's Scourge
17-10-2009, 09:23
Fair enough. You could be part of my impersonal army then sir.

Alas, my conversion skills are fledgling at best so I must rely on the talent of strangers.

Imperialis_Dominatus
17-10-2009, 09:31
Emo Orks... what would they whine about? Peace. Probably. Orks despairing about the level of peace and prosperity in a given sector. Waving about signs with little Ork Yoofs crying below the baleful stare of a peace-sign-eye-thing.

Sceleris82
17-10-2009, 09:59
Well to be honest, in the background forum i notice this alot. You often see people going "I never want the imperium to win, i want the setting to always potray the imperium on the edge of destruction". I belive this is the reason everyone loves the Storm of Iron novel because the bad guys win.
Alot of people wanna see humanity get owned, and i dunno why.