View Full Version : Armour vs weopons

captain ceaser
16-10-2009, 21:17
I have been pondering this since reading the ig codex. If this has been discussed before please forgive.

have noticed that there are masses of melta guns, plasma guns, power weopons, mega death cannons ect that are all over the game and that humble trooper rifles are basically ignored in favour of CC. It makes me think thats items such a power armour and termy armour arnt really that great. and that more bodies or better special rules seem to be far more advantagous. This seems to be fantasy but with some special shooting attacks. i thought these weopons are rare and once apon a time a power sword was a commander weopon but now every squad sergeant can take power weopon, melta bombs and a plasma pistols wtf?

A quick example is the tactical squad. to my eyes this is just a ten man unit that is there to get a free heavy weopon or cheap melta gun and to put bodies on an objective.

this isnt a rant its just a concern i have over the state of the game at the moment. Does anybody have similar concerns? Please discuss.

17-10-2009, 18:16
i agree that units that that are meant to be all high and mighty are easy to kill. for example a terminator squad is meant to be kick *** but for the same amount of points i can take a demolisher with plasma cannon sponsons and wipe it of the table in one turn.

yes, advanced weaponry are available to most units now ( ppart from grots ) but in my eyes this is a good thing becuase you cant just ignore tht tactical squad. they can actaully do a lot of damage to you meaning that games are more tactical and interesting

17-10-2009, 18:25
for example a terminator squad is meant to be kick *** but for the same amount of points i can take a demolisher with plasma cannon sponsons and wipe it of the table in one turn.

Well dice rolling can go wrong.

Yes certain weapons have become pretty common in the list sections for armies. But the humble IG Command squad most often doesn't take the power weapon and krak grenades as it tends to steer clear of CC at all costs.
Got to remember since they wrote the 5th Edition cover has become the main part that a lot of people will cite in the game. So people now take weapons that as such will force a worse armour save than the normal one they'd be allowed.

17-10-2009, 19:00
I have noticed this to in modern 40k. In 2nd ed units lasted a long time. Now, with making everything deadlier and halving the points values they are forcing larger armies, and to make you buy the newest coolest unit and start entirely new armies just so they make more money.

If you don't like it, impose some extra restrictions beyond the force organisation chart, such as no hevay support over 'x' points each or something similar.
Or try a campaign where any weapon but a basic one is low on ammo due to supply issues - basic ammo can be found more easily than the specialist ammo types. Say any special or heavy weapon takes a test each time it fires and if fails is out of ammo or must miss a turn whilst firer looks for unspend shells/power packs etc.

18-10-2009, 02:55
Well you have to remember that these are space marines. They are the emperors elite strikeforce. With all of the revenue of the Imperium coming from all the countless worlds, they have the resources to be the best equipped.

18-10-2009, 03:01
IG sergeants can take power weapons.

Space marines are the number of legions that keep finding relics of their lost tech and stockpiles that had all those who knew of them blown away by one super bomb or likewise.

There are more power weapons then marines in the universe. They just either havent found them or, or are allowed to.

_Pĸ ĿōĐ_
18-10-2009, 13:47
I have to say they are trying to make these armys more like the novels they are writing, where it seems everyone has a power sword or heavy weapon of some kind, which is good for the book, but not for the models. Think about it, the novels they have been writing have just started to increase as they started redoing the 40k rulebook, and i think they are trying to make each individual model be its own little hero...

18-10-2009, 14:32
You play IG, Demolishers are anti termies and such.

Think of necrons. Their anti-termi/armour/horde is mass warriors apperently.

Takes 180 shots to down 10 termies. Thats 3240 pts of necron warriors at max range.

Yea... with chaos termies or wolfguard, it take you 10 times the cost.

With demolisher, you are actually less expensive than them.

Termies and SM are still good.

Its like saying Beserkers suck in close combat because the Nightbringer can beat him...

Those are made to counter them.


18-10-2009, 14:37
It ought to be mentioned that when it comes to RL armies and tactics, especially back in the second WW, a squad is often little more then a delivery service for its squad machinegun.

Strangely, 40k reflects that reasonably well.

18-10-2009, 15:57
Try putting fewer points down, on a bigger table, with a good proportion and mixture of terrain. It's so much harder for your deathstar units to be everywhere at once, and they take up so much of the army, they become a liability.

I also play an accurate 1:72 WW2 system, which revolves around the infantry company, and am writing a conversion for 40K units in it. If you want your basic infantry to be the core of the game, don't start with 40k, it's just not written for that.

The troops only scoring of 5th ed is a clear sign of how the writers saw they needed to make the PBI more useful.