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Brother Alexos
17-10-2009, 22:10
I was wondering if VC is a good army? I would like to start them by buying the Spearhead, Battalion, a Cairn Wraith, a Doom wolf, and a Warhammer fortress.

Stinkfoot
17-10-2009, 22:22
VCs are considered one of the more powerful armies out right now. I play them and they're a lot of fun. That said before jumping all the way in I'd buy the battalion and maybe an extra vampire and play a few games. That way you'll a) know what you like and what to buy more of and b) know if you like VCs or want to switch to another army.

shredshredxx
17-10-2009, 22:40
that sounds like a pretty scattered purchase...

you're going to want more than one wraith

the doom wolf optoins are in the plastic dire wolf sprue which makes 10 of the doggies,

what style of army did you want to try and go with??

zoggin-eck
17-10-2009, 23:06
Hey, exciting thread and title there matey!

Seriously, what do you expect people to tell you?

Brother Alexos
17-10-2009, 23:07
a mostly-undead force that doesn't totally dominate. And I didn't expect anything as I am a noob to the Warhammer Fantasy community.

Bac5665
18-10-2009, 00:19
VC are all undead these days, and are stupidly easy to make a broken list with. If you want a competitive least, throw down any VC models equal to the correct point cost and your good. If you want your opponent to enjoy the game too, then you need to be more careful.

Stinkfoot
18-10-2009, 00:50
If you want to make a fun and balanced list try to keep your army to the following limits:

-10 power dice max at 2000 points. Adjust to a bit more or a bit less depending on your opponents' playstyle. VCs need to be able to cast spells fairly reliably, but don't take so much that you'll blow your enemy off the table.

-Don't double-up on rare choices. Also, don't do something like take a 10-man wraith unit (which either sucks or is auto-win depending on what army you're fighting).

-Do not take the Drakenhoff banner. It is too ripe for abuse and I don't think it should be taken in friendly games.

Really, the key to playing balanced games is to talk with your opponents beforehand and try to make lists of approximately equal power. That's a lot easier if you're playing with friends whom you play with often. If you're playing pick up games it's still worth a pre-game conversation. If your opponent is a jerk who takes 4 EotGs against your balanced list, well, you know who not to waste your time with anymore.

Dexter099
18-10-2009, 01:17
VC are the second most powerful army book out there, second only to demons. They were the first of the broken triad to be released.

Brother Alexos
18-10-2009, 02:46
Damn. I didn't want an army that was invincible of a "good guy" race. Nor do I want TK as I want ZOMBEZ!

Leo85
18-10-2009, 04:54
Been playing VC for 10 yrs now and it's the only one i'll ever play, it's really fun to put together and it's so cool to play too! just replenishing unit after unit and watching your opponents frustration lvls rise! We have 0 shooting in this army but wth we dominate the other 3 phases, even movement for undead! Vampire are a tweak toned down from the last edition but still a force to be reckoning with, just keep your lord safe sometimes avoiding battles is the way to go! remmeber if your general falls most of your core units will fall with him. Get the spearhead, I think Vlad and a varghulf come in there, also you'll need to buy many boxes of in this order Ghouls, skellies and zombies, you'll be raising these guys most of the fight so you'll need to have a bunch of models to play around with. Don't worry about the "balance" of the game, I think theres a higher % of ppl playing for the win then fluff and blow **** out of proportion. Don't make lists to completely dismantle your opponent, but make one that suits your style of play, for exp I love having my lord on some sort of flying monster, having your general able to have an overlook of the battlefield is so awesome imo, it's gets shot down usually after turn one but wth I just love the look. Anyway have fun man!

Maoriboy007
18-10-2009, 05:17
VC are basically a combat infantry army suppourted by magic with some elite units in the mix. The army is as fun as you want to make it, & literally revolves around (and relies on)how you build your characters.
Unless you want to build a really annoying army, avoid the non combat lords and the Master of the Black arts bloodline altogether.
A good balance of solid infantry and solid hitters is the way to go, the VC General also (still!) comes with an automatic win button for your opponant, so throwing him into combat is a fair concession, and protect him appropriatly.
Don't listen to the "OMG VC iz broken" crap. Nearly every army since their release have been given ample tools to take down VC in particular.
Real complaints come from people still stuck with 6 edition books (patience, your time will come!) Early 7 edition releases like O&G (face it , you guys got screwd over) and people who played when gunlines were the most powerful build in the game ,they are particularly less effective vs undead and I have no real sympathy for them whatsoever.

Leo85
18-10-2009, 05:34
Jeez finally a smart comment.

Brother Alexos
18-10-2009, 05:59
Same here Leo, same here. Though I just want to know what the whole, "replenish your ranks" thing is all about? does this mean that you can raise your opponants dead units comepletely or piecemeal?

Einholt
18-10-2009, 06:02
You can just raise stuff and rebuild a unit you lost models in or raise new units if you have the appropriate power. It is just assumed there are enough dead on the battlefield wherever you are.

I would like to echo the sentiment that VC are fine as long as you do not look to break them and are actually a really fun and cool army. They just have the option to be ridiculous ... which can come in handy when you need to a) teach someone a lesson, or b) play for a prize in a cutthroat environment.

Brother Alexos
18-10-2009, 06:09
:eek::eek::eek:
:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

HOLY CRAP!!!!! I have a very fun idear, How about this


VC starts on one side of table, the opponent in a castle. You then throw waves of endless zombies at the castle until the sixth turn, then if the unfortunate soul has at least ONE unit on the board afterwards, he wins!

Leo85
18-10-2009, 06:18
In the old book VC armies had to rush to their opponents and get into CC as quick as possible in this edition they gotta come to us even quicker instead of laying back and shooting us to death. Lets say for example you got a Vamp lord lvl 3 upgrade master of black arts/dark acolyte, you toss him skull staff with the summon ghouls ability, this means you have +2 when casting invocation on a unit of ghouls. If you start of with a unit of 15 ghouls in your magic phase you can cast with your vampire lord which has 6 dice + 2 from the pool to play with, you can cast invocation of nehek 8 times with +2 on the casting on your ghouls, and you can only fail on a 1 and you can never miscast! so if 5 invo's get through your basically raising 5d6 ghould for free.... yah this is why you need to buy A LOT of stuff haha.

bork da basher
18-10-2009, 07:36
VC are open to abusive lists but so are many other armies, most in fact bar a few have some terribly abusive lists up their sleeve. as it stands VC are a good army but we have downfalls other races do not have. we RELY on magic and that in itself is a risk. we have to take at least 3 charecters and have about 10 PD to even stand a chance in most battles and usually even that is insuffient. if our general dies you may aswell pack up the game. killing a vamp lord isnt difficult either. yes we can summon a filthy amount of troops but hey ho isnt that the whole point of VC isn't it? you know to raise the dead.

i play a balanced VC list. its heavy magic but it isnt OTT and i havent gone into the filthy combos mentioned above and ive had about a 60/40 win ratio so far which is fairly average. ive had no one complain my army was filthy and im pretty certain my opponants have had fun too. VC arnt that bad if you dont abuse the power builds and i think its either a really unexperienced player or bandwagon jumper who would suggest otherwise. if your a good general you can isolate our weak points and exploit them. if you just sit back and assume EVERY VC list is better than your army then tough thats your fault. learn to play better and defeat them rather than moaning about it. everythings broken these days or so it seems, people are screaming BROOOOOOKEN!! at the new skaven and no ones even tried them yet. give things a chance and learn to beat them.

zoggin-eck
18-10-2009, 11:30
If you are really new to the game, I wouldn't worry about accidentally stumbling upon a magic "win automatically" list.

Go for what you like the look of, within the rules for the game and you should do fine.

The moment you go searching on any of the armies, you would come across plenty of people arguing that, say, high elves, dark elves, whatever are too powerful, or tell you orc and goblins suck, then have you proceed to win every game with them!

I think your hearts in the right place (weird, for someone into vampires! Look out for those stakes buddy), but if someone is going to whinge to a new player that their list is "broken" then they don't deserve all the concern you seem to have for the other player(s)

treben1234
18-10-2009, 13:02
In the old book VC armies had to rush to their opponents and get into CC as quick as possible in this edition they gotta come to us even quicker instead of laying back and shooting us to death. Lets say for example you got a Vamp lord lvl 3 upgrade master of black arts/dark acolyte, you toss him skull staff with the summon ghouls ability, this means you have +2 when casting invocation on a unit of ghouls. If you start of with a unit of 15 ghouls in your magic phase you can cast with your vampire lord which has 6 dice + 2 from the pool to play with, you can cast invocation of nehek 8 times with +2 on the casting on your ghouls, and you can only fail on a 1 and you can never miscast! so if 5 invo's get through your basically raising 5d6 ghould for free.... yah this is why you need to buy A LOT of stuff haha.

"No matter the modifiers and level of the wizard, you must roll a +3 to cast a spell. a 1 or 2 is always a failure to cast." page 107 Rule book

artyboy
18-10-2009, 15:19
Don't listen to the haters. There are some armies that have trouble with them and others that just steamroll them most of the time. There's only 1 "broken" VC list/strategy and this is it. Give your general Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte and a summoning power. Give him the crown of command and a skull staff. Take a unit of 20ish grave guard and put a battle standard bearer with the drakenhoff banner in the unit. Take either lord of the dead and skeletons as your troops or summon ghouls and ghouls as your troops. Start the units small so that you can spend points on other things. Take a vamp or two with dark acolyte and summon ghouls or lord of the dead for your other characters. Put your lord in a troop unit behind the grave guard and put troop units on either side of him. Sit back on your side of the table for the first couple of turns and raise your troop units as much as possible so that they're extremely big and hard to deal with by the time your opponent gets across the table. Avoid that army build/tactic and your list won't be broken.

It's OK to run grave guard. It's OK to make your lord magic focused and avoid combat with him at all costs. It's OK to make your troop units bigger than their starting size. Like any list out there, it's when you capitalize on all of the army's strengths and minimize the weaknesses that the list becomes broken.

Brother Alexos
18-10-2009, 19:15
Do you think that for games like this...

http://colgravis.blogspot.com/2007/12/orks-drift.html

that summoning would be bad? I was thinking of playing it to where a fort was being beseiged by an invading VC force (MINE!!!) and that for six turns the defenders had to hold out?

Maoriboy007
18-10-2009, 20:02
Scenarios are fine, just make sure the special rules keep the game even (eg defenders would be immune to psycology stubbourn etc)