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View Full Version : Bringing back the "S" word! What do you use for a Count As?



Walls
18-10-2009, 20:18
Yes, I have gotten my hands on some... guyswhoshallnotbementions... and was wondering what everyone uses for their rule set as "Counts as"? Space Marines and Orks seem to fit (bikes and artillery and all), guard possibly could.

grissom2006
18-10-2009, 20:21
IG Veterans or Stormtroopers they don't fit into a count as SM's in any shape.

Imperialis_Dominatus
18-10-2009, 20:33
Serfs perhaps. But that's not a Space Marine army.

Bunnahabhain
18-10-2009, 20:37
Orks, Guard, or Sisters are your best options, marines are viable as well.

It really depends on what models you've got, and so what kind of list you'r elooking to run from them.

sigur
18-10-2009, 20:51
I found IG with Inquisition allies (or Witch Hunters with IG allies) to be the most fitting. And I don't quite understand why Squats shouldn't be called by their name.

Space Marines are just wrong (statswise, equipmentwise and because they are too elite for Squats), Orks have almost fitting stats but sadly have only BF2 and I think that they are such a characterful army that they don't make too good counts-as rules.

Imperialis_Dominatus
18-10-2009, 20:56
*facepalm*

Oh... that S word... disregard my last post.

grissom2006
18-10-2009, 20:58
*facepalm*

Oh... that S word... disregard my last post.

ummm not going to ask what you was thinking :p

Whitehorn
18-10-2009, 21:01
Whatever you want to :)

I'd say Guard or Tau generally although taking Daemon Hunter allies would let you have Exo armour squats - using Grey Knight rules.

Red Beard
18-10-2009, 21:17
The best army i have ever seen them "count as" is salamanders. Alot of the models were converted and space marine bits were used. It was an amazing army. The army is in murfreesboro tennessee if any of you live close by, take a look at them. They are at Grand Adventures Comics and Games.

Imperialis_Dominatus
18-10-2009, 21:18
ummm not going to ask what you was thinking :p

Space Wolves, since they've been a stupidly common counts-as object in threads lately. For some reason. :angel:

IJW
18-10-2009, 21:22
What kind of army do you want?

Tooooon
18-10-2009, 22:19
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222252

Tardar, two pages of people discussing various options for proxying them

Bladelord
18-10-2009, 22:22
Had it not been for the "We'll be back" rule, Necrons would not have been a bad Counts-As.

Vaktathi
18-10-2009, 22:30
IG Veterans or Stormtroopers they don't fit into a count as SM's in any shape.They would as Scouts. They were T4 I believe, so scouts with bolters and on bikes I think could fit them well, with Terminators as Exo-armor. Just the power armored guys wouldn't fit well. ATSKNF could work well to represent their stubbornness, etc.

susu.exp
18-10-2009, 22:59
The best way: Go to the rules Dev subforum and check the Varyngr rules development thread. Iīm using Hellebores current list to playtest - please do the same. The list hasnīt been fully playtested and some things are probably overpowered or underpowered.
I would probably use the IG list as counts as if it came to it. The units sizes for the basic infantry are the same as in the Codex:Varyngr and Artilery pieces can be used as counts as HW teams, while Defenders can be used to represent Chimareas, Embittered as Penal legion, etc. And of course the Big Gunship was rather Valk-Inspired, the Techpriest can stand in for the Guilders and the Battle Tank can be used as a Russ.

vladsimpaler
18-10-2009, 23:09
Space Wolves, since they've been a stupidly common counts-as object in threads lately. For some reason. :angel:

You mean the new World Eaters codex? Yeah, there's been a lot of counts-as Spacewolves lately. :wtf:

Alessander
19-10-2009, 02:35
back in 3rd ed someone used the ork armylist for squats.

Hellebore
19-10-2009, 02:40
I would go with a guard army using mainly veteran guardsman squads (perhaps with carapace armour) and allied inquisitors using terminators as exo armour.

Hellebore

Sunyavadin
19-10-2009, 02:52
Had it not been for the "We'll be back" rule, Necrons would not have been a bad Counts-As.

Oooh, I see what you did there...

I'd be tempted to say Orks due to the higher toughness, and bikes if you want a lot of them, but IG seem thematically better suited...

Ronin_eX
19-10-2009, 05:26
Well a space marine army could be used to do a very elite squat army. Maybe using Space Wolves to pull out a fighting force made only out of exo-suits (Squat TDA-equivalent). Would be fairly cool actually and the upper levels of Squats were fairly norse so it would be a good fit.

To do a more down to earth Squat force you'd likely want to go IG since they were pretty artillery heavy. Then just load up on elite units in carapace armour. This is probably the best way to go if you end up using Hasslefree's Grymn minis.

Eulenspiegel
19-10-2009, 07:02
To do a more down to earth Squat force (...)

That was racist (well speciesist)!

Souleater
19-10-2009, 08:34
Orks or SW.

I wish GW has used the fluff and stuff for Squats in 2nd Ed rather than making the SWs.

Imperialis_Dominatus
19-10-2009, 08:36
That was racist (well speciesist)!

What is 40k about if not species-supremacy?

Karhedron
19-10-2009, 12:54
I would go for one of the Inquisition codices.

Storm Troopers as basic Squat warriors. Power armour guys as Hearthguard and Terminators of some flavour as exo-armoured troops.

Good access to vehicles with options from both the SM and IG range.

A defensive Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood makes a good Living Ancestor. Warlords can be any fighty T4 character in suitably heavy armour. Guild Masters might be a bit harder, inducted techmarines or techpriests perhaps?

Ultimately it depends on how elite you want your squats to be. They were always a half-way house between IG and Marines with T4 but not quite SM levels of armour. If you want to weakish squats then IG for the bulk infantry with Inquisition choices to repesent the more powerful elements works.

If you want a more elite army then using the Inquisition forces for your bulk infantry (Storm Troopers etc) while Marines, sisters or GKs (as appropriate) fill in the top-tier.

Either option can work well. It just depends how elite you view squats to be and what models you have.

Threeshades
19-10-2009, 15:42
I would also say Demonhunters. A lot of people here suggested Guard with Demonhunters allies, which I dont understand, the Hunters themselves have troops choices just as suitable as what guard have and don't have to go the mostly tournament-illegal way of taking allies.
Inquisition Storm Troopers as core infantry and grey knights as elites.

Karhedron
19-10-2009, 16:51
Inquisition Storm Troopers as core infantry and grey knights as elites.

The shrouding rule might be a little hard to justify in fluff terms though. Advanced sensor disruption tech from the DAOT?

Or just too short to see them? :p

Walls
19-10-2009, 17:04
I have a ton of regular troops and about a dozen bikes.
Guard: Not sure what to make the bikes. Roughriders seems too obvious. Plus with an attack bike present it doesn't fit enough almost
Marines: Use the normal guys as scouts?

I have 2 exoarmored guys in there. If I do guard they may become some sorta grey knight allies or perhaps even commissars/priests

Thudd Gun: Should I build a big base and model it as a Hydra perhaps? My idea was to put a crew on the base and build a "forcefield generator" to account for the armor. The base would be the size of a chimera footprint.

Also in this box of goodies? Some old ass orks including an old flame bike thing and an olllllllllllllllld meganob! Also, what has to be a first edition marine. It's the oddest looking thing ever. It's kneeling, with a knife and bolter in hand and has a very strange backpack. Also had an old, smaller version rhino, which was kinda cool.

The SkaerKrow
19-10-2009, 17:12
Looking over the original Rogue Trader book and its companions left me with the decided impression that Squats have always just been a Counts-As Ork force. Remember, Squats aren't just Space Dwarfs, they're Renegade Space Biker Dwarfs.

sigur
19-10-2009, 20:48
What is 40k about if not species-supremacy?

Almost all races in the game are partly about species-supremacy. That should be more than enough reason that players are not. I know, you meant it as a joke but this is a quite important thing.

Lord Inquisitor
19-10-2009, 20:53
I'd be inclined to say a Space Marine army with scouts as Troops and Scout Bikers as your squat trikers.

Karhedron
19-10-2009, 21:48
Thudd Gun:

Thunderfire cannon would be perfect.

Imperialis_Dominatus
21-10-2009, 03:45
Or just too short to see them? :p

You ever play WoW?

Don't.

But if you have, try targeting a jumping Gnome anything with your mouse. It's as good as, if not better, than Shrouding.


Almost all races in the game are partly about species-supremacy. That should be more than enough reason that players are not. I know, you meant it as a joke but this is a quite important thing.

Considering my post was a joke based on a joke based on a perhaps-unfortunately-unintentional pun, yeah, I'm not serious.

madd0ct0r
21-10-2009, 15:23
Sounds like you'll be fine as a marine's count-as


Another timid vote for the varyngr lists. For counts as, I'm now giving necrons some serious thought.
Monlolith - Termite (deepstrikes, transports ect)
Bikes - Destroyers
heavy trikes - heavy destoyers
Spyders - mounted Guild Engineer
Scarabs - um... servitors?

Necrons troopers - tough, slow, and stubborn enough to get back up after being shot
Flayed Ones - Embittered
Pariahs, Immortals, warlords ect - all fit easily.



hmm. I may have to follow this up.

IJW
21-10-2009, 15:27
I still have problems with 3+ saves if you're using the RT-era models - they just don't have enough armour on the models.

As most of you know, I use the Ork Codex but that's mainly because I run a very bike-heavy list.

FlyingViking
27-11-2009, 18:27
I agree with IJW's reservation about 3+ saves on the majority of the old Squat models. But I'm going to flick through my dusty Necron codex tonight, to see how viable that would be.

Generally, I go with Imperial Guard with Grey Knight Terminator allies if I want to field exo-suits. I just choose not to use rules that wouldn't fit fluff (so no psychic powers for the terminators).
I don't have anywhere to use my exo bikes, bikes and trikes, though.

For non-official rules, The Varyngr rules development is really coming on strong, and I've used George Spiggott's older 4th ed Squat Auxilaries codex (I think it's hosted on dysartes.com), which is quite true to the old squat flavour.

Thibbledorf_Pwent
27-11-2009, 18:53
Ive been working on converting a similar army and I've found the best option to be Daemon or Witchhunters. The Stormtroopers are a great stopgap between IG and SM, and you can requisition whatever else you want. Inquisitor Lords are also Good proxies for Living Ancestors I've been told. I have some Exo-Armor teams I proxy as Grey Knight Terminators.

Thats just my 2 teef

EDIT: Sorry Karhedron, didn't know you already said all that. I am far less forum experienced than I should be

t-tauri
27-11-2009, 18:56
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222252

Tardar, two pages of people discussing various options for proxying them

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