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Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 04:17
Were to start an older army. Say like Tk or BoC or even Ogres, Which one should i start? I like all three, but i like TK because they look cool, i like BoC because their fluff and units interest me, and ogres because its a low cost army. So Warseer public what should i pick?

Brother Alexos
20-10-2009, 04:28
Tk, as they are good for both tourneys and due for an update in either February or the such next year I guess. Also, you have an auto-kill catapult that can fire twice!!!!

Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 04:54
good point!

Einholt
20-10-2009, 05:13
Eh. Not TK because they will be updated too far from now and too soon for you to buy a bunch of models that will be replaced.

BoC are coming as the next Fantasy army I would say get some beast herds, hounds and characters right now and a giant maybe, play for a while paint it up and then BoC hits with new book and new minis shortly after new years. They will be a lot more capable in giving you a fun game in an environment with new books.

Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 05:36
also a good point, keep em coming. i am eager to hear anythin needing to be said! :)

Agoz
20-10-2009, 05:43
Other older armies you might consider:
Brettonians
Wood elves

As for the three you've mentioned, Ogres are probably going to be the last of those to get a new army book, in fact, they may be the last 7th edition book, or perhaps one of the first eighth edition books to come out. BOC and TK are both getting new books in a relatively short time, though I'd guess you'd be fairly safe with tomb kings.

As for playstyles, it really just depends on what you like, TK are probably the most competitive of the three, but take some skill to master (as do the other two, but as I understand it, the TK learning curve is quite steep).

I prefer ogres personally

Condottiere
20-10-2009, 05:50
BoC should be March 2010, or thereabouts. I suspect that Brets and WE have priority before OK, and TK before those two.

Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 05:58
I'd like to mention what i see in the armies and how i think they play out for me.

TK- I like the fact of playing an unbreakable army with a different style of magic
~i love the models, the units of chariots draw me in, the way their maic works compels me too.
BoC- I love the look of the army, the khorngores catch my eye, the beast herds are a great concept, and the centigores drunk rule is funny
~There special units draw me in along with the characters, the units are well rounded, and the models are not half bad.
OK- Larg bases, high strength, gnoblars ... gorgers ... yhetti .... dang
~Its a low cost (dolar wise) army, not much to paint, and they have a lot of dynamic models

thats about the jist of each army as i see it and how they appeal to me.

Laurela
20-10-2009, 07:59
I don't think you should base your army selection around cost of models, so with that I'd rule out Ogres. And generally I pick my armies based around their fluff, TK being my fave <3. But since you seem to prefer BoC, I suggest them. Plus they're getting the next updated army book after Skaven.

Necromancy Black
20-10-2009, 08:13
I've played with my friends Ogre Army. I like them, they are really different to my Lizardmen and even though they aren't as strong as any of the newer armies there are still some decently competitive builds you can make.

I've never really liked BoC. TK are cool, but I still like OK more.

Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 08:32
so many choices, and everyone is giving great feed back ... this is harder than i thought X_X

SilentCivilian
20-10-2009, 09:16
I will cast a vote for my beloved BoC. For now they are one of the weaker lists out there from a competitive stand point. But in more casual games you can win.
I would suggest looking at the model range for them all, and deciding which you like the most. After all you are going to be spending alot of time and money on them. You can learn to use any army, but you cant force yourself to love a bad mini.

Tokamak
20-10-2009, 10:04
I would go for ogres, simply because I've yet to see an ogre army executed well.

Gekiganger
20-10-2009, 15:23
BoC.

They're due for updates soon, have fairly interesting background, some killer models and will hopefully be getting some nice new models in the next release.

Holding off on buying models that might be updated soon would be wise though, unless you absolutely must have them.

The SkaerKrow
20-10-2009, 16:13
Tough call. I suggest Tomb Kings, but be aware that all Skeleton related kits in the line will likely be redone in a different scale (see the current Vampire Counts Skeletons) when the Tomb Kings book is re-released. Otherwise, Beasts and Ogres are a toss up. If you want to start the army now, do Ogre Kingdoms. If you don't mind waiting a bit longer, go with Beasts of Chaos so that you can take advantage of their new Army Book when it drops next year.

mrtn
20-10-2009, 16:52
Eh. Not TK because they will be updated too far from now and too soon for you to buy a bunch of models that will be replaced.

BoC are coming as the next Fantasy army I would say get some beast herds, hounds and characters right now and a giant maybe, play for a while paint it up and then BoC hits with new book and new minis shortly after new years. They will be a lot more capable in giving you a fun game in an environment with new books.
Yes, listen to the braying of the herd! :)

The reasons you had for starting Ogres sounds like what you could get in a beastman army as well. It's rumoured we will get plastic minotaurs, bestigors and trolls, that should be enough monster bases for you. ;)

Ax'ataxa
20-10-2009, 18:32
it's looking like BoC or TK. TK is winning in the polls but BoC will be done soon ... everyone is making excellent points i'll leave the poll open for another day or so before i chose.

Emeraldw
20-10-2009, 18:45
BoC should be March 2010, or thereabouts. I suspect that Brets and WE have priority before OK, and TK before those two.

They do? I was under the impression they were both newer than OK and TK; and have better books which don't prioritize a release for them.

mrtn
20-10-2009, 18:45
Don't listen to a poll on the internet, listen to your heart. :cheese:

ohno!zombies!
20-10-2009, 18:48
Ogres are great fun to play with/against.

best,

Gekiganger
20-10-2009, 18:50
They do? I was under the impression they were both newer than OK and TK; and have better books which don't prioritize a release for them.

I'm not a beast player, but didn't the current edition of the main rulebook mess up some of their special rules? Either way, it's confirmed that beasts are coming up soon enough unless I'm severly mistaken.

Emeraldw
20-10-2009, 21:57
I'm not a beast player, but didn't the current edition of the main rulebook mess up some of their special rules? Either way, it's confirmed that beasts are coming up soon enough unless I'm severly mistaken.

I was referring more to the second section of the statement than the first.

Condottiere
20-10-2009, 22:02
I look at it as a marketing exercise - a fairly normal Army between two more exotic ones.

Ax'ataxa
22-10-2009, 07:03
i'm leaning more so towards beasts now, based on the fact i like their models, they have decent rules, and i can collect and paint the models and wait for them to get their new book.

grailknight
22-10-2009, 10:31
well beasts are supposed to be getting a shed load of new models soon including centigors bestigors minos dogres ect so if u do buy stuff u may have to or want to replace it when the new kits come out. wud probably suggestnot buying lots of chariots as rumors suggest that they wont be core as they are now when the new book arrives.

problem is lots of the lines in fantasy need or will be updated eventually and so ull always be tempted to buy new models or put off by certain armies because of this, so unless you buy a brand new release new things will always be on the horizon. however i think its normally 7 years ish between updates so ...

YTY
22-10-2009, 16:28
I hate the beast models and ogres are just too... odd? Tomb kings, however, seem to have the best models and rules at the moment.

Necromancer2
22-10-2009, 16:51
Ogre Kingdoms... cause TK and BoC are going to be redone in 2010.

Enigmatik1
22-10-2009, 16:54
I hate the beast models and ogres are just too... odd? Tomb kings, however, seem to have the best models and rules at the moment.

I'm rather fond of my TK models. A few words of advice should you choose to delve into them.

-Quite a few of the metals are becoming increasing hard to get a hold of at Ye Ole Gaming Shoppe, such as Tomb Guard, Carrion and Bone Giants. This leads us to believe they are going to be redone in the not-too-distant future. In fact, don't be surprised if even your trusty online store has these listed as out-of-stock. Finding Tomb Guard and Carrion on alternative sites, such as ebay are akin to finding a flea in a haystack if you're looking to save money.

-Unless you REALLY like the models, which I highly doubt you will, there are better looking and easier to assemble/paint alternatives to both the Tomb Scorpion and the Bone Giant (both of which I are hideous if you go GW brand). Save yourself the trouble and take a gander at Reaper Miniatures for both the Scorpion and Big Bone. Larger TK metals are known for being rather difficult to assemble. I've often jokingly said you need an Engineering degree to assemble the catapult.

Ax'ataxa
22-10-2009, 17:07
very good points :D this just became harder :D

Rockgut
22-10-2009, 17:11
Lizardmen.

TK are hard to learn to play when starting out and you will not learn as much about the game. Beasts stink for now, so maybe you should wait for an update. Ogres are also require a lot of finesse to play and lack a variety of troops (regardless, I love them and they are my favorite army)

You can put together a Lizardman army fairly cheaply. If you play a Slaan and 2 stegs, there are not many models to paint. The army is competitive and you have a variety of units (monsters, flyers, ranked infrantry, skirmishers, cavalry) and you participate in all phases of the game (movement, magic, shooting, psychology, etc).

Then again, if you hate Lizardmen models and fluff, you will never have fun. So with the choices you have put out there, I think you should choose beasts. They are due to get re-done soon and I think they would be interesting to play than TK.

Ax'ataxa
22-10-2009, 17:18
i have a 10K+ lizardmen army sitting in my room in their army case :D

Enigmatik1
22-10-2009, 18:48
TK are hard to learn to play when starting out and you will not learn as much about the game. Beasts stink for now, so maybe you should wait for an update. Ogres are also require a lot of finesse to play and lack a variety of troops (regardless, I love them and they are my favorite army).

You know what? I've been playing Tomb Kings for a few months now and I don't think they're that hard to play the more I think about it. But then again, playing them and being successful with them are mutually exclusive terms.

The biggest issue with Tomb Kings is the fact that most of your units are terrible for their point cost (all because of the Undead rule). Skeletons are around 10 points per model, for example, and fight like a 2 point per model unit in another army. That's the crux of the TK issue, at least to me. What this means is that you have the numbers of an elite army, like WoC or HE, but abyssmal troops to work with. It can be done, but it can be a daunting task for new players. Tomb Kings (the characters) are pretty roughneck though, and somewhat make up for the futility of skeletons. :D

Beasts are pretty bad. I feel very bad for Beastmen players who had to endure what the edition change did to them. The rest of us, even Ogres, can at least get by. I don't feel that they should've been left unaddressed for so long, but that's just my opinion.



Then again, if you hate Lizardmen models and fluff, you will never have fun. So with the choices you have put out there, I think you should choose beasts. They are due to get re-done soon and I think they would be interesting to play than TK.

Lizardmen were the last book to be redone, iirc. They are a competitive army with what appears to me anyway as lots of options (keeping in mind, TK don't have that many options...haha). My biggest gripe with them is that their characters are so expensive. I thought I overpaid for characters until I flipped through that book. Dear Lord...

Ultimately, I think you're doing the right thing. Pick a few armies that you like the look of and ask opinions. Then, I'd proxy a few games with the armies that made the cut to see which I like the feel of better before buying miniatures. We can all offer our input as to what's good and what's not, but just because TK works for me despite its myriad of shortcomings in the current metagame, doesn't mean that it'll work for you. Sure, it may be a little odd proxying Saurus Warriors as Tomb Guard, but your friends shouldn't mind. Otherwise, you may end up wasting money on an army that you actually end up hating.

Malorian
22-10-2009, 18:52
Always go with the army you think looks cool.

If you play an army where you don't like the models (like when I started 40k nurgle) you'll just get bored with them and not want to play.

If you play an army where you just like the fluff you'll get frustrated when the actual rules don't match the fluff.

If you play an army just because it was cheap it will only last until you have the money to get what you really want and then you actually just ended up spending more money.


So go with TK :)

Bladelord
22-10-2009, 18:52
Given those options, I'd go with ogres. They're the newest, to begin with, and has four plastic boxes to break. Tomb Kings are to receive a major overhaul (with any luck), and I'd pick any normal skeleton instead of the large 5th ed. chunks we've now every day.

Beasts of Chaos would be a good second choice, since they mainly look good, and has two plastic sets (Beastmen & Warhounds). Still, when they're up and back, they'll probably get some much better monster boxes.

Go for Ogres, or even better, decide yourself.

Sly Rax
22-10-2009, 20:04
I say go with Ogres! They are so much fun to battle with!

and i want GW to know that some people do love them so they can get to making some new models (i love the plastics but the metal ones are crap)

Ax'ataxa
23-10-2009, 05:16
i guess i'll wait for some releases to happen and rumors to pop up before i decide.

ChaosVC
23-10-2009, 09:41
Didn't vote.

Wait for the new release. If you are desperate...go BOC, at least the beast herd and chaos hounds are prettier or new.

Ax'ataxa
23-10-2009, 16:40
i never expected to get 70 votes between the three option @_@. The reason why i ask everyone out there is because i like to hear input to how other view the army, i'll pick the army i like, but i will learn something about it from those who play it. that is the method to my madness :)