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Vampiric16
20-10-2009, 17:59
Only, there was never a second wave release, leaving a substantial number of units without models.
No non-FW heralds
No chariots
No blue scribes or changeling
No tzeentch command unit
No seekers of slaanesh
Plastic DP seen, but as yet still unreleased.
I was kind of hoping for an updated Bloodthirster, but thats wishlisting.
Admittedly, these can be converted. But in the case of seekers, the old models have been discontinued, which would have indicated GW planning to replace them.
Is it just me?

CrownAxe
20-10-2009, 18:01
Yes it's just you

GW knows about everything, but are very tight lipped about it so we don't know

They could just as well have every single model designed and just haven't released them yet

So be patient




...Also Seekers haven been anounced at German GD showing the resin of them

gwarsh41
20-10-2009, 18:09
also consider this. nobody plays daemons...
I personally am starting to right now, I am so excited about them that I am buying them instead of space wolves. (who i have been playing for about 2 years)
But they just dont get enough love to get noticed.
I would say look back on when the last codex was released... 2008.
Its going to be quite a while until a new codex, and that is a best shot at more GW minis.

Vampiric16
20-10-2009, 18:10
Ah right. Just I got the feeling they were sidelined in the rush to get yet another two SM codexes out plus IG, which to be fair got a lot more attention/new stuff/etc than daemons. In my opinion of course :)

loveless
20-10-2009, 18:13
also consider this. nobody plays daemons...


On the contrary, from the Fantasy side of things, EVERYONE plays daemons if they want an easy button :p

The demand is there, I'd look towards mid-2010 for a release or two of daemon models, from what I remember - I think some will be coming alongside some other Fantasy models.

DuskRaider
20-10-2009, 18:16
also consider this. nobody plays daemons...

Yes... Except that a lot of people do.

x-esiv-4c
20-10-2009, 18:25
Daemon player here!

Zingbaby
20-10-2009, 18:35
If you are actually expecting that fast a turn around on models - then you haven't been involved in GW gaming for that long lol. Get ready - to wait my friend.

Durath
20-10-2009, 19:03
Heh. I'm a daemon player too. By the virtue that I had 2/3rds of a Daemon army already, as I played Chaos before the split.

All I had to buy were some PlagueBearers, a Soul Grinder, and a squad of Fiends, and I was ready to go with a full "competative" army.

Now, I did go and buy a couple special characters, and I got some Screamers... but these were mostly asthetic in reason.

Goat of Yuggoth
20-10-2009, 19:18
I confess, I play them too..

As I remember it, someone quoted a designer on the seen (and at the time, discluded from the production line) DP and seekers at GDUK09 that they have been designed already but not to be done until they can throw in something more..

Can you confirm/deny?

And I find that at the moment you can really go to town with daemons, and no one really cares if that herald with a chariot is a huge spider-thingy or a sentinel gone BAD :evilgrin:

But a second wave would be very much appreciated, and there are lots of us.. A legion at least :cool:

Tymell
20-10-2009, 19:21
Only, there was never a second wave release, leaving a substantial number of units without models.
No non-FW heralds
No chariots
No blue scribes or changeling
No tzeentch command unit
No seekers of slaanesh
Plastic DP seen, but as yet still unreleased.
I was kind of hoping for an updated Bloodthirster, but thats wishlisting.
Admittedly, these can be converted. But in the case of seekers, the old models have been discontinued, which would have indicated GW planning to replace them.
Is it just me?

Eh, plenty of other armies are more overdue for second waves/new codices.

Rick Blaine
20-10-2009, 19:21
GW does not forget.
GW does not forgive.

Kirill
20-10-2009, 19:49
GW does not forget.
GW does not forgive.

Games workshop are dark angels? Shockhorror!

Anyway, i remember the rumor about waiting for more stuff, and fair enough, two models is hardly a wave, they havn't forgotten about you.

Corrode
20-10-2009, 19:55
Just be patient; the amount of love Daemons have in Fantasy means they're almost guaranteed to get a second wave soonish. Especially given that next year is supposedly a 'Fantasy year'.

CraftworldsRus
20-10-2009, 19:58
Well, if I had to guess, when the big cav release hits for fantasy(Summer 2010?), the demons should like as not get their seekers.

ntin
20-10-2009, 21:25
GW does not forget.
GW does not forgive.

Gamesworkshop is Anonymous?

Kirill
20-10-2009, 21:45
Gamesworkshop is Anonymous?

Rule #6, #7 but unfortunately, #19 too.

Supreme Archon Orlok
20-10-2009, 21:51
I play daemons too (until necrons or Dark Eldar are released).

I want my seekers!!!!!

Clang
20-10-2009, 21:52
Plastic plaguebearers and horrors would seem obvious, presuming GW sold heaps of daemonettes and bloodletters - I won't be too surprised if they appear next year.

Rick Blaine
20-10-2009, 21:58
Just be patient; the amount of love Daemons have in Fantasy means they're almost guaranteed to get a second wave soonish. Especially given that next year is supposedly a 'Fantasy year'.

This makes sense.

Which means it won't happen :p

Kriegfreak
20-10-2009, 22:03
Deamons just seemed like an effort to sell more models. You can use them in both 40k and Fantasy. They should have just made them more valuable in a Chaos codex instead of coming out with one more to fill the ranks and slow down updates. Sorry to the Chaos Deamon players out there.. just my opinion mind you!

StefDa
20-10-2009, 22:25
On the contrary, from the Fantasy side of things, EVERYONE plays daemons if they want an easy button

And that annoys the hell out of me, because I made a Daemonic Legion under the Storm of Chaos book, so it was a natural move for me to play them with my new book too. I got started real good before I even read the book. Damn you, Matt Ward...[Deleted by Order of The Warseer Inquisition to prevent contamination of untainted souls.]

HerrDusty
21-10-2009, 02:01
Deamons just seemed like an effort to sell more models. You can use them in both 40k and Fantasy. They should have just made them more valuable in a Chaos codex instead of coming out with one more to fill the ranks and slow down updates. Sorry to the Chaos Deamon players out there.. just my opinion mind you!

This I agree with. I play Chaos Space Marines, and to be honest I'm a little bit naffed off that GW decided to lump us with rubbish lesser daemons and greater daemons, and put all the interesting and cool demons in a new codex, seemingly in an attempt to make more money that what they may have from keeping daemons along side CSM's in the same book.

The Chaos Marines codex is still a very good and useable codex, I just feel it would have been even better if it had actual Daemons in it, rather then the generic ones we are stuck with now.

That and the way every unit in the codex is immune to Instant Death bugs me (alongside the same with Synapse in the Tyranid codex), as I feel that Eternal Warrior is thrown around with reckless abandon in some places these days, making Force Weapons about as dangerous as a dessert spoon on the battlefield.

/rant off

All that said, the 40K Daemons codex is a very interesting codex to read for the fluff, and the units seem well written and quite varied, so at least GW made a good attempt at writing it in their rush for more money.

It'd be nice to see some new (plastic) models come along, though, especially the plastic Daemon Prince (even if only so I can add a plastic Prince to my CSM army to go alongside my fragile metal one).

Ethriel
21-10-2009, 02:07
Yep, GW has totally forgotten about Chaos Daemons, they are going to just let the codex eventually slide into obscurity, like the DE. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, why are you complaining about Daemons? It's not hard to make the models that you need, plus there are more important things for GW to be doing. Ie. Dark Eldar, (an entire new range). probably once that is done, they will go back to finishing up all the units that they haven't made models for.

ntin
21-10-2009, 02:53
Yep, GW has totally forgotten about Chaos Daemons, they are going to just let the codex eventually slide into obscurity, like the DE. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, why are you complaining about Daemons? It's not hard to make the models that you need, plus there are more important things for GW to be doing. Ie. Dark Eldar, (an entire new range). probably once that is done, they will go back to finishing up all the units that they haven't made models for.

Sorry to get off topic but I have to ask why are Dark Eldar and Necrons the priority armies that are the most deserving of attention? It seems like every thread on this forum some how Kevin Bacons to these two armies. Dark Eldar were seldom played even in 3rd edition and Necrons were part of the convert White Dwarf List to Codex bandwagon at the end of 3rd edition. I can understand a group of people with Necrons out there it was a popular book for a while but the Dark Eldar support confuses me.

Anyway Chaos Daemons seem like a one shot deal like the Inquisition books as a way to let players field their 3rd edition Codex: Chaos Space Marine, Daemons again but push Chaos Marines in a different direction.

primarch16
21-10-2009, 03:17
I've left my daemons until the second wave now, waiting of that daemon prince to bulk my heavy support out. I'm thinking summer 2010.

Dark Eldar are an army full of life and character and deserve a new codex. We've seen concept art recently so GW arent forgetting about them, and with plastic being as good as it is nowadays I think we can expect a very nice new model range for them. Big problem is that EVERY model needs to be redone, literally. Plastic kit for warriors, witches, raider (though raider and ravager could be one box). Then maybe metal kits for incubi, grotesques, mandrakes... but on top of that you have new lords, haemonuclus... its a damn big project. Not to meantion special characters. But they did it for wood elves in fantasy dont forget.

Necrons just need a new codex I think, they dont work in 5th. Models wise a few new plastic kits would be nice, pariahs, immortals and flayed ones. Job done.

Lord-Caerolion
21-10-2009, 03:47
Sorry to get off topic but I have to ask why are Dark Eldar and Necrons the priority armies that are the most deserving of attention? It seems like every thread on this forum some how Kevin Bacons to these two armies. Dark Eldar were seldom played even in 3rd edition and Necrons were part of the convert White Dwarf List to Codex bandwagon at the end of 3rd edition. I can understand a group of people with Necrons out there it was a popular book for a while but the Dark Eldar support confuses me.

The Dark Eldar don't have a massive following because of their lack of attention from GW. As a race, they have good potential, as we can explore what the "true" Eldar were like. The problem with the Dark Eldar is they were given a sub-par codex, with no fluff, and appalling models. Any race introduced under those conditions would suffer. It doesn't mean they have no potential though.

ntin
21-10-2009, 04:22
The Dark Eldar don't have a massive following because of their lack of attention from GW. As a race, they have good potential, as we can explore what the "true" Eldar were like. The problem with the Dark Eldar is they were given a sub-par codex, with no fluff, and appalling models. Any race introduced under those conditions would suffer. It doesn't mean they have no potential though.

Yes but why is it always the same knee jerk reaction when Dark Eldar are mentioned? From the reasons you have listed the concept of the Dark Eldar line has a stigma and history of failure. What would be the benefit of Gamesworkshop to redo an entire model line for a Codex that their customers have long since accepted to be the “worst” army in their game? Especially now that the focus of game play has shifted back to mechanized armies what can Dark Eldar bring to the game that will get players to purchase them past the “shinny bauble” impulse purchase?

There have been dozens of one shot army lists published over the years (Kroot Mercenaries, Feral Orks, White Scars, et cetera) that Gamesworkshop has abandoned without a second thought, why is it so hard for people to let go of Dark Eldar? From the point of view of Gamesworkshop it would be less of a financial investment to introduce Crone Eldar so they can associate existing Chaos miniatures into the Codex. In a broad sense they are both “evil” Eldar and the majority of players do not know (or care) of fluff material from a decade ago, so none will be the wiser.

Nezmith
21-10-2009, 06:44
Yes but why is it always the same knee jerk reaction when Dark Eldar are mentioned? From the reasons you have listed the concept of the Dark Eldar line has a stigma and history of failure. What would be the benefit of Gamesworkshop to redo an entire model line for a Codex that their customers have long since accepted to be the “worst” army in their game? Especially now that the focus of game play has shifted back to mechanized armies what can Dark Eldar bring to the game that will get players to purchase them past the “shinny bauble” impulse purchase?

There have been dozens of one shot army lists published over the years (Kroot Mercenaries, Feral Orks, White Scars, et cetera) that Gamesworkshop has abandoned without a second thought, why is it so hard for people to let go of Dark Eldar? From the point of view of Gamesworkshop it would be less of a financial investment to introduce Crone Eldar so they can associate existing Chaos miniatures into the Codex. In a broad sense they are both “evil” Eldar and the majority of players do not know (or care) of fluff material from a decade ago, so none will be the wiser.


Games Workshop promised at one of their Games Days that no other army is going to be killed off like the Squats were.

Just because you don't like the Army does not mean that it has no value to the rest of the player base. Making assumptions like that only kills your credibility around here.

maze ironheart
21-10-2009, 08:23
This I agree with. I play Chaos Space Marines, and to be honest I'm a little bit naffed off that GW decided to lump us with rubbish lesser daemons and greater daemons, and put all the interesting and cool demons in a new codex, seemingly in an attempt to make more money that what they may have from keeping daemons along side CSM's in the same book.

The Chaos Marines codex is still a very good and useable codex, I just feel it would have been even better if it had actual Daemons in it, rather then the generic ones we are stuck with now.

That and the way every unit in the codex is immune to Instant Death bugs me (alongside the same with Synapse in the Tyranid codex), as I feel that Eternal Warrior is thrown around with reckless abandon in some places these days, making Force Weapons about as dangerous as a dessert spoon on the battlefield.

/rant off

All that said, the 40K Daemons codex is a very interesting codex to read for the fluff, and the units seem well written and quite varied, so at least GW made a good attempt at writing it in their rush for more money.

It'd be nice to see some new (plastic) models come along, though, especially the plastic Daemon Prince (even if only so I can add a plastic Prince to my CSM army to go alongside my fragile metal one).

I aggree as my metal deamon prince has become fragile and when I saw the new deamon prince I thought I'll get that a full year and no deamon prince.The saw planet strike still no deamon prince while SM/IG/Orks have see way too many updates :mad:.

SideshowLucifer
21-10-2009, 10:00
Dark Eldar need to return to being a single unit in the Eldar Codex. They are by far the worst retcon ever.
As to the topic, I'm wondering when daemons will get their sily FAQ/Errata document. It's been awhile hasn't it?

dblaz3r
21-10-2009, 10:51
Yes it has been awhile, even the guard codex has had a FAQ.

gwarsh41
21-10-2009, 14:46
If only there was a daemon battleforce box...

I think for CSM to have daemons as powerful as the ones in the daemons codex, there would have to be some serious balancing.

I think I would crap orks if I saw abadon and a bloodthirster coming at me at the same time.

IJW
21-10-2009, 15:01
Dark Eldar need to return to being a single unit in the Eldar Codex.
Dark Eldar =/= 2nd ed. Eldar Pirates. :eyebrows:
Pirates/Corsairs still exist as a separate entity in the background, ref. p53 in the current Eldar codex.

You can't 'return' something to a state it was never in...


They are by far the worst retcon ever.
Nah, that's the Necrons. ;)

Back on topic, there are quite a few armies which still don't have all the models required - Daemons are pretty much par for the course, given how many new units were introduced.

primarch16
21-10-2009, 17:21
Ntin you do realise dark eldar were in the 3rd edition starter box for all of 40k?they were hardly an army gw just shoed into the game like you described. They have a full model range, arguably that makes them even more viable than chaos daemons. They just need a codex and model update, just like necrons. 'abandoning' the army just because you think it brings nothing to the game is retarded, and I'm sure half the dark eldar players out there feel the same. Hell at least they can still throw out a competetive list, same can't be said for daemonhunters. And I don't quite know what you mean with the 'mech' game today? You assume all of 40k is in tanks now, you've heard of nids right? Even if that were the case they arguably have the best transport in the game. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Vampiric16
21-10-2009, 17:27
From Daemons to dark eldar in less than a page, fantastic :p.

BladeWalker
21-10-2009, 17:45
I'm also a Daemons player. My army is on hold in hopes of getting plastic kits for PB's and the Daemon Prince. We'll get something in 2010, metal/expensive Troops is a real bummer (and I think the current PB models are too cartoony and repetitive). If another wave of Daemon kits comes out without plastic for all the Troops I'll be forced to convert...

Supreme Archon Orlok
21-10-2009, 17:53
From Daemons to dark eldar in less than a page, fantastic :p.

This is my fault isn't it?


What would be the benefit of Gamesworkshop to redo an entire model line for a Codex that their customers have long since accepted to be the “worst” army in their game?

No Dark Eldar are not the worst army in the game, ask many Dark Eldar players and they will tell you they are quite powerful.


There have been dozens of one shot army lists published over the years (Kroot Mercenaries, Feral Orks, White Scars, et cetera) that Gamesworkshop has abandoned without a second thought, why is it so hard for people to let go of Dark Eldar?

'Cos they're awesome?

Sorry about continuing this line of discussion but it had to be said.

TimLeeson
21-10-2009, 18:00
I'm glad Daemons got a codex, their far more interesting and likewise iv seen more creative/counts-as armies come out of them (The Harrowed anyone ? that should be enough to justify daemons alone!) - and also it was nice to be seperated from all those whiney uncreative legion players especially.

I've put my Tzeentchian horde into storage until a metal horror command unit comes out, I tried to convert a command unit but they ended up looking awful. I need proper models in this specific case. At least with the daemon prince and greater daemon, I had RAFM call of cthulhu models to use though.

JHZ
21-10-2009, 20:05
No non-FW heralds
In the WHFB army book people are given instructions on how to make Heralds, for exsample from the released plastic kits. And you have Epidemus, Masque, etc. models to use.


No chariots
WHFB book also presents some guides for these too, and there's a whole host of guides on the internets. I personally have used Tomb King chariots for my daemon legion.


No tzeentch command unit
Well, there's the old Horror command squad. Check eBay and other places. Or gimme a holler, I have an unopened blister with musician and standard bearer.


No seekers of slaanesh
Old ones (the really old ones, with bald heads and crab claws) should be available here and there. And many use Dark Elf Cold One Knights with 'nette bitz.


Plastic DP seen, but as yet still unreleased.
But you do have this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1670004&rootCatGameStyle=), this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1670005&rootCatGameStyle=) and this (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1110281&rootCatGameStyle=).


Admittedly, these can be converted. But in the case of seekers, the old models have been discontinued, which would have indicated GW planning to replace them.
There are new ones coming. I think the images were in the latest GD thread in rumours and news.


Is it just me?
Nope. WHFB daemons have been without many of those things for years. But we've managed.

Goat of Yuggoth
21-10-2009, 22:43
Could you *please not bring Dark Eldar as an example to every thread that says "this is bad" as a "hey, this is worse" response ppl?

Yes, everone knows how dire the need for them is, and a lot of good threads get mixed up with ninja-deldaring-people, and the response is always "they are not used maaaaan", and that in turn escalates into a full-scale war that unfortunately tends to bury the original idea of the thread..

I myself would like to hear more about daemons. What do you use as the chariots in 40k for example? I had thoughts of a herald being the chariot, like a centipede or an arachnid-centaur.. of sorts.

Or why don't you convert the metal expensive thingys from something not so expensive? I am making my plaguebearers from FB ghouls, and they look more plague-ravaged than the metal ones..

And I've seen many a good and simple conversion to do Tzeentchian troops as well. DP can be done from many things, like a Nurgle one from an Ogre or similar-sized plastic critter for example.
The seekers I don't really use, although the models look nicer than anything so far and I must have them A.S.A.P in my nipple-ridden Slaanesh fingers.

That's all folks!

primarch16
22-10-2009, 00:47
Apologies, I get driven into a spiral of rage when people make silly comments.

I'm actually rather proud of my daemon army, it uses no models that are actually on display in the Chaos Daemons codex lol.

Bloodletters are Fantasy beastmen. Didnt like the new bloodletter models, not enough axes and not enough fur for me. Beastmen fitted the bill quite nicely when given a blood red paint job. Plus the plastic kit is rather nice.
Daemonettes are the old metal daemonette models. Managed to get my hands on some, very nice models.
Plaguebearers are fantasy ghouls, another nice plastic kit which is quite cheap and a good representation.
Horrors are Tyranid spore mines with little green stuffed eyes. They look quite Tzeentchy actually, the tentacles are blue and the brainy bit is pink. The eye is painted bloodshot and yellow. Look rather daemonic.
Herald of Khorne in chariot: fantasy beastman lord on a scratchbuilt daemon engine. Uses the back of an eldar falcon as a base and a few bits from the giant sprue. Kinda hard to explain, give me a shout if you would like a pic and I'll post it in the painting and modeling forum.
My Heralds of Tzeentch on chariots are just Fantasy sorcerers on home made discs, not had any problems yet with anyone having me use them as chariots.

All my chariots are on 60mm round bases.

Eldartank
22-10-2009, 03:28
I'm currently working on an all-Khorne daemon army. And, believe it or not, I actually think the plastic bloodletters look pretty cool. ;) Anyway, I know that Khorne-only may limit what I can do, but that angry red army will look so cool on the tabletop.

Spare Change
23-10-2009, 10:00
It's past the point of bothering me if they have; I've done conversions for any model that they could possibly produce now, and they look pretty neat. :D

Goat of Yuggoth
23-10-2009, 12:36
I'm currently working on an all-Khorne daemon army. And, believe it or not, I actually think the plastic bloodletters look pretty cool. ;) Anyway, I know that Khorne-only may limit what I can do, but that angry red army will look so cool on the tabletop.

Not necessarily.. You could do all sorts of Khorney things, and use them as units belonging to another gods, if you've seen the Fifth_Miracles' Slaanesh miniatures you know what I mean ;)

Although there's nothing wrong with an all-Khorne GW-produced line.. Just might get dull painting miniatures that have almost a unified theme (my large Tyranid army keeps me in love with Daemons, you just can't go too wild on the paint schemes :D )..

An idea for a replacement unit for something not Khorne: why don't you use dragon Ogres for, say, Nurgle Beasts or some other cavalry unit? And that Beastman idea is perfect for Daemonettes, they're more nimble-looking and a tad bit smaller, at least the Ungors are..

I'm nuts, but that's just me :angel:

_PÏñĸ ƒĿōŸĐ_
23-10-2009, 14:41
Im pretty sure a rumor thread/news was started a while ago with details of the second wave...