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Ddraiglais
23-10-2009, 17:38
As I said in my last thread, I am looking to start into Fantasy in 2010. I've pretty much decided to start with WoC and DE. I really don't know much about the game. I do think that some of my choices might be too good, even though I am trying to theme around miniatures that I like.

For the WoC army I was thinking about a unit of marauders and as many units of marauders on horse as I could fit for core. For specials, I wanted a couple of units of knights and a unit or two of chariots. For my rare choices I wanted to field a mammoth (with the unit of marauders in the howdah). I am unsure about a lord choice. I was leaning towards some sort of magic using character to sit in the howdah's throne.

I am shooting for an all mounted quick raiding type army centered around the mammoth. I don't know how much I'll actually be able to field as I don't have the books yet. I do know the mammoth is 600 points.


For the DE I was thinking about a beastlord type army. I don't know if fluff supports this, but I think it would be fun. I wanted Rakarth on his dragon or a beastlord on a manticore for a lord choice. Probably a mix of dark riders, warriors, and corsairs for troop choices. A few units of CO knights (at least three) for specials, and two hydras for rares.

As I said, I don't know much beyond the basics of the fluff. I wanted to know if these lists go against fluff and/or are over the top. Also, any other suggestions would be welcome. I know next to nothing about magic. Should I find a way to work magic into on of or both of these lists? As always, thanks for any help.

TroyJPerez
23-10-2009, 18:08
The mammoth isn't actually a warhammer warriors of chaos unit. Its only used in forge world rules. So in friendly games its ok but in official games it won't be allowed.

Ddraiglais
23-10-2009, 18:22
Yeah, that's what I expected. I usually play 40K in garages, kitchens, living room floors, and basements. I use a lot of FW/Armorcast/Epicast stuff in those games. I wouldn't expect much to change with fantasy. I just wanted to know if the rules were too OTT though. I love the miniature (if it can be called that). I think it would make an amazing centerpiece for my army.

The SkaerKrow
23-10-2009, 18:41
A Dark Elf Black Dragon in a list with two War Hydras will always be considered to be over-the-top, and with good reason.

Because the Dark Elf Dragon benefits from the rider's Hatred, it's one of the single most powerful flying monsters in the game. The War Hydra can also give fits to an opponent who doesn't have the tools to deal with it, and while one is generally acceptable, two is a bit much outside of very competitive environments.

Avian
23-10-2009, 20:56
Note that the Mammoth has rules written by 40K players who don't actually know how Fantasy Battles works. The rules are neither balanced or make any sense. ;)

Stuffburger
24-10-2009, 05:58
I wouldn't get the mammoth either- even for friendly games those rules are not balanced. Also, the presence of a 600+ point monster changes the whole character of the game. It's not a game of strategy more, it's "Can I cannon the mammoth to death before it charges". I would play it a couple times for novelty but it's basically just a gorgeous little statue.

Two hydras is extremely harsh, frowned on even at tournaments.

I don't really enjoy taking many multiples of the same unit. You might find it more enjoyable to collect a wider range of troops instead of just a small part of the range- more variety to paint, game with and surprise your opponent with.

Ddraiglais
25-10-2009, 05:58
That's a bummer about the mammoth. It's probably my all time favorite miniature for Fantasy. :cries: I really thought that it might be something I could pull off. Would it work if I took the mammoth and then took nothing but marauders or some other average unit? Would it be less offensive to take one at higher points?

I kinda expected the two hydras to be OTT. I don't know the rules, but I assumed they'd be pretty good for hydras. I guess I could figure out some other builds for DE. I wasn't as attached to any one particular miniature for that range. I did like the hydras and the dragons, but I also like the GZ COs too. Other miniatures from GW and GZ look nice as well.

Again, thanks for all the help. I'm kinda narrowing my vision for what I want to do in fantasy. I think I've got a good idea for the directions I want to go.

Avian
25-10-2009, 08:38
That's a bummer about the mammoth. It's probably my all time favorite miniature for Fantasy. :cries: I really thought that it might be something I could pull off. Would it work if I took the mammoth and then took nothing but marauders or some other average unit? Would it be less offensive to take one at higher points?
As I said: The people who wrote the rules for it don't know the rules for Fantasy Battles and just copy-pasted rules off of other big nasties (some from 40K, which don't actually work in this game), gave it stats in the "I bet this will be awesome" region, slapped on a points cost that must have been pure guesswork and called it a day. The result has clearly neither been play tested or proof read by anyone familiar with the game rules. I for one would rather play against a creature whose rules were made up by my grandmother. ;)

Gorbad Ironclaw
25-10-2009, 10:56
Of course there is always the option of just ignoring the rules by FW and making up your own rules so that it will be acceptable to you and the people you play with.

That's probably what I'd do if I wanted to use that model. Although I do like that the FW rules give the Mammoth a save that will be ignored by any weapon strong enough to actually wound it in the first place :p

Agoz
25-10-2009, 16:03
I don't really see how the rules represent a lack of knowledge when it comes to Warhammer (with the exception of it's silly armor save of 6+), it fights like a giant, and has a few old siege rules.

The point cost however, is probably too low, with a toughness of seven, and a possibility of dishing out 4-9 attacks a round, its pretty brutal. Though still, its not stubborn or anything, so breaking it with static combat res, and subsiquently running it down with it's meager MV of 6, should not be that difficult.