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Cpt. Drill
28-10-2009, 15:34
Hello people

I have been trawling the internet for someones rules for the cyclone missile launcher for 3rd ed space hulk. Nothing that has really satisfied me has shown up so I am turning to warseer.

We have been doing a bit a playtesting and so far and narrowed it down to...


12 shots.

A single board section is targetted and each model on it is killed on a 4+

You can move and shoot

You can fire a storm bolter and cyclone missile launcher in the same turn

It cannot overwatch.


We still cannot decide if it should cost 1ap or 2ap? It is a nice weapon but it doesnt have the awesome killing potential of the assault cannon or the tactical flexability of the flamer.


Any thoughts would be great.

ecurtz
28-10-2009, 16:57
I'd go with 2 AP for a couple reasons.

I'm almost positive that's what it was in the 1st edition rules, so (hopefully) it was discussed then and the consensus was 2 AP.

A 1 AP area effect weapon seems too easy to abuse using CP during the genestealer phase. It would still be less powerful than the flamer but WAY more flexible.

Znail
28-10-2009, 17:37
The main advantage that the Cyclone has over the Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer is that you still have your Stormbolter. So its ok if the Cyclone istelf is somewhat less impressive. But I think its ok with 1 AP to fire, but with an ammo count of 6. That way so do you get the option to toss out some shortime firepower. But you may need to fire more then once at the same target due to the 4+ compared to the HF's 2+ and lasting fire.

grg3d
28-10-2009, 17:38
We use it as a missile launcher:
2 AP/CP OR combination of points
No move and shoot
No overwatch
2 kinds of ammo (crack 3+ to kill individual target) (plasma section effect 5+ to kill no prolong effect on the board section sorta like a flash)
Unlimited range and ammo
I own 1, 2 and 3rd the rules you mentioned might be from a white dwarf the one with the Space Wolfs I think

Cpt. Drill
29-10-2009, 00:08
At first we used it with move or shoot but found that it never got a good shot off... Genestealers would just dodge it or send a single dude to be fodder and it was always a bit worthless. The terminator would just use his stormbolter as having to stand still often isnt an option in fast games of space hulk.


We have found that the 12 shots at 1AP means it gets used alot which is a good thing and isnt too powerful. We havent found it too open to abuse (And one of our less regular gaming friends is an absolute powergamer) It still needs playtesting though.

Grg3d you mentioned being a bit like a flash? Are these other rules I have no yet dug out of the internets?

AndrewGPaul
29-10-2009, 00:33
I'd go with 2 AP for a couple reasons.

I'm almost positive that's what it was in the 1st edition rules

Pretty sure the Cyclone never had any 1st edition rules. Not officially, at least. I don't think it's the sort of thing you want to be firing off in a cramped corridor anyway. :)

Cpt. Drill
29-10-2009, 00:36
If I remember correctly from playing quake alot tight corridors are exactly where you want to be firing rocket launchers.

ecurtz
29-10-2009, 01:32
Pretty sure the Cyclone never had any 1st edition rules. Not officially, at least. I don't think it's the sort of thing you want to be firing off in a cramped corridor anyway. :)

I could have sworn there were some rules in an issue of White Dwarf or something, but I just checked my (very incomplete) issues from that era and couldn't find them. I must just be remembering a house rule as if it was gospel or thinking of the standard missile launcher. :confused:

Znail
29-10-2009, 06:12
I could have sworn there were some rules in an issue of White Dwarf or something, but I just checked my (very incomplete) issues from that era and couldn't find them. I must just be remembering a house rule as if it was gospel or thinking of the standard missile launcher. :confused:

Yupp, there were rules for the normal missile launcher in 1st edition so its quite likely those you are thinking of. Cyklone Missilelauncher is in the current and old 40k rules a more rapid firing version of the normal missile launcher so it makes sense to let it fire more quickly.

My main reason for wanting 6 shots is that I feel 12 is more then you will need most of the time so feels a bit too much due to that. But I dont think 12 is unreasonable either. It all depends on what makes for the best balance against the other two heavy weapons. I guess some testing is needed for that. Maybe 10 or 8 could work as well.

As for the fluff so would I consider rockets pretty reasonable for boarding action, but maybe krak missiles makes less sense due to the risk of hull damage. Althou I think most missions are supposed to be deep inside already wrecked ships and both Assault Cannons and Stormbolter shells are rather unsafe if it realy matters. Krak missiles makes little sense in Space Hulk for the simple reason that while a hit would pretty surely kill a Genestealer so do you still need to hit wich makes it less suitable then flamers or rapid fire guns. I would think krak would be mostly for taking out hard targets like a Carnifex or possibly the Broodlord. I consider giving krak the same 4+ against a single target, but let it negate the Hard to Kill rule. Maybe that is too good and 5+ would be more suitable thou.

Cpt. Drill
29-10-2009, 09:31
My main reason for wanting 6 shots is that I feel 12 is more then you will need most of the time so feels a bit too much due to that. But I dont think 12 is unreasonable either. It all depends on what makes for the best balance against the other two heavy weapons. I guess some testing is needed for that. Maybe 10 or 8 could work as well.

When it costs 1ap to fire we often get through all twelve, think about the assault cannon... It is not uncommon for that to run out of 40 shots (admittedly there is the overwatch to concider) Also it is very much dependant on the scenario. Even with the twelve shots costing 1AP I still find that I prefer the flamer for actual tactical use. 4+ is the most fickle dice roll of them all and just isnt reliable enough for clearing out anything, most of the time we use it to thin out numbers in rooms or junctions


The original reason why we tried 12 missiles is purely because the model has twelve missiles in his weapon... A bad way to make rules but it seems to work nicely.


We were originally trying it with 6 frag and 6 krak missiles (Krak was killing anything on a 2+ and ignors hard to kill), but with the terminator having a storm bolter we found that the Krak missiles never got used. On doors they felt like a waste and no broodlord has ever come into a position to be shot by them yet.

grg3d
29-10-2009, 11:12
Cpt. Drill Re: Cyclone Missile Launcer?
Grg3d you mentioned being a bit like a flash? Are these other rules I have no yet dug out of the internets?

Plasma missiles did a section effect at 5+ to kill a geenstealer or blip but did not stay like the heavy flamer template.


ecurtz Re: Cyclone Missile Launcer?
I could have sworn there were some rules in an issue of White Dwarf or something,

I do not have any issues any more but I'm pretty sure the rules for the Cyclone were in the White Dwarf..the one with the rules for Space Wolfs in the Hulk..

Oops I'm bad, yes the missile launcher crack ammo did kill on a 2+ but at 2 ap's or cp's and only killing one model its not that powerful..

Crack Missile for when you absolutely gotta have a kill,


by the way I have seen allot of geenstealers survive the heavy flamer attack and thats the same kill number :eek:

wilsongrahams
30-10-2009, 09:34
There ARE first ed rules because I have them in the summary section of the weapons lists - the only bit I scanned and kept. They were however not exactly balanced perfectly because Hybrids/Stealers/Marines etc weren't as hard/weak etc as they should be. Cyclone only fired Plasma missiles in Hulk, only Krak in 40k 2ed.

In order to avoid posting rules, I'll say it has the same range and area effect as for the Flamer now, kills stealers on 4+ and doors and termies on 6+. No O/W or Sus Fire, Cost 2AP to fire and no ammo limit. It did however impose a -1 to the terminator's roll in combat for replacing his fist with the targeter.

Also though you state the CML lacks the versatility of the Flamer, you forget that it also has twice the ammo in original 40k, so 2AP would be better and keep 12 shots.

grg3d
30-10-2009, 12:33
Wow old age must be creeping in on me.....:p

I too have had 1st, 2nd, 3rd and all the supplements to first edition (Deathwing, Geenstealer)

I even had Advanced Space Crusade.

Space Hulk 1st Edition equipment

Storm Bolter
Power glove
Heavy Flamer


Space Hulk 1st Edition supplement "Deathwing" equipment

Same as above
Assault Cannon
Lighting Claws
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Captians
Librarians
Captains Power fist Grenade Launcher
Chain fist
Force Axe

This expansion of "Deathwing" adds some new features to the basic game:
- New personnel: Marine Captain and Marine Librarian (psykers).
- New weapons: Assault Cannon, Grenade Launcher, Power Sword, Chain Fist, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Lightning Claws, Force Axe.
- Multi-level games: pitfalls and ladders.
- Roster sheet: Predefined squads, Command Squad, Heavy Weapons Squad, Standard Squad, Close Assault Squad, Reconnaissance Squad.
- New rules: ambush, teleporting, and more.
- New scenario features: crates, rubble, bulkheads, cryogenic tanks, disposal chutes.
- Mission generator.
- Solo rules.
- A new campaign: Broken Knife's Duty (6 new missions).



Space Hulk 1st Edition supplement "Geenstealer" equipment

Genestealer hybrids
hybrids weapons
Psychic combat card system


This expansion of "Geenstealer" adds some new features to the basic game:

- Warpspace and Psykers.
- Librarians and Hybrids.
- New Weapons: Autocannon, Conversion beamer, Missile launcher, Bolt guns, Laser weapons, Plasma Weapons, Aegis suit.
- Psychic combat.
- Levels of mastery.
- Terminator force list.
- New blips.
- Two new missions: Behind enemy lines, The final assault.
- The Grey Knights.

Further scenarios and rules were released in the White Dwarf and Citadel Journal magazines. A hardback book, Space Hulk Campaigns, was released in 1991 and later reprinted as a paperback (1993). It contained much of the magazine material, including rules for Traitor Terminators and Space Marines in Power Armour and some new board sections.

And after all that I still say / think the Cyclone Missile Launcer was in the White Dwarf that had the Space Wolfs rules in it (WD 147)

Just saying.....:angel:

AndrewGPaul
30-10-2009, 15:17
Nitpick - the power sword was intoruduced in Deathwing - 1st edition Space Hulk equipped Sergeants with power gloves.

grg3d
30-10-2009, 18:17
Thanks AndrewGPaul told you my mind was going:p
I did list it as a new weapon under Deathwing
and I fixed it

Wickey the Viking
30-10-2009, 19:41
Nice. 'Till now I was using it like a flamer. I'll give those rules a go!

AndrewGPaul
30-10-2009, 19:53
And after all that I still say / think the Cyclone Missile Launcher was in the White Dwarf that had the Space Wolfs rules in it (WD 147)

Just saying.....:angel:

Nope, I checked. That article didn't even have any special rules for the Space Wolves. It's not mentioned in Strike Deep in WD 149 either.

http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_indexes/subject_space_hulk.html

A list of Space Hulk articles in White Dwarf and the Citadel Journal. The only Cyclone rules listed are in CJ 36, and I know they're unofficial because I know the guy who wrote them.

wilsongrahams
31-10-2009, 09:30
Hmmm, now I can't remember where I scanned it from. When I'm back home I'll try posting the page and see if anyone recognises it. It includes all weapons and rolls needed to hit Hybrids, Terminators etc but is the summary sheet. There is no entry in the main weapons section only the summary so I assumed I had not scanned a page until now. Can somebody check the summaries at all see if it is in theirs too, even if not in the main descriptions.

AndrewGPaul
31-10-2009, 18:46
The only place I can think that would have a comprehensive weapons summary sheet would be the Space Hulk Missions book. Certainly, the one in Genestealer doesn't mention the Cyclone Missile Launcher.

Commander X
01-11-2009, 11:02
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned and/or silly, what about the Space Crusade version of the Missile Launcher with a few slight adaptations to make it work in the current rules? To be honest, I found those old rules rather amusing and they don't seem like they would be too imbalanced for the game when compared to the other heavy weapons.

AP Cost and Clip Size are left up to you for now, as those were no issue in the days of Space Crusade. Range can remain unlimited and it has no Overwatch.
As for the effect; basically, you pick one square to target, then roll two dice. The total of the two dice rolls is applied to the model in the targeted square, and the highest of the two is applied to all models in adjacent squares. I would guess that a 5+ would be needed to kill a Genestealer, and a 10+ for the Broodlord due to its 'Hard to Kill' rule.

Cpt. Drill
01-11-2009, 17:57
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned and/or silly, what about the Space Crusade version of the Missile Launcher with a few slight adaptations to make it work in the current rules? To be honest, I found those old rules rather amusing and they don't seem like they would be too imbalanced for the game when compared to the other heavy weapons.

AP Cost and Clip Size are left up to you for now, as those were no issue in the days of Space Crusade. Range can remain unlimited and it has no Overwatch.
As for the effect; basically, you pick one square to target, then roll two dice. The total of the two dice rolls is applied to the model in the targeted square, and the highest of the two is applied to all models in adjacent squares. I would guess that a 5+ would be needed to kill a Genestealer, and a 10+ for the Broodlord due to its 'Hard to Kill' rule.


Wow I really like how different those are. I still have all my old space crusade stuff but not the books. I will definatly try and play test these as they really make it stand out compared to the flamer.


Thanks for the idea great work.

Cpt. Drill
02-11-2009, 03:46
We tried these out and they were a little silly... Either you can clear a whole load of genestealers or you clear basically none. The all or nothing approach doesnt seem very (save for a better word) realistic.

I think we have a final version that we are happy with now.

Cyclone Missile Launcher

1ap to fire
12 rounds of ammo
unlimited range
May not be used in overwatch
Terminator armed with cyclone missile launcher is at -1 in close combat.
Target a single square on a tile roll two dice for it killing on a 4+ (This means a direct hit can kill the broadlord) then roll a single dice of damge for each genestealer on any other square on the tile (this cannot kill the broadlord). Doors on the target tile are effected the same as genestealers.


It makes for a nice variation of the assualt cannon and the flame thrower. It promoted a different playing style and allows different ways of dealing with problems. If people want to try this out and give any feed back that would be great.

wilsongrahams
02-11-2009, 07:07
I like those rules, and will give them a try when I get my cyclone conversion painted up.

Just to throw a spanner in the works though, how about using the 2nd ed 40k style, and say 2ap to fire, may use any number of missiles in that salvo? Less area effect as they are krak missiles in 40k and not plasma? Each extra missile could improve the firestorm of the cyclone caused and give a sus fire bonus or something?

Was an idea I had a while back to make it different from the flamer and assault cannon but not overly powerful as the marine still has a storm bolter anyway. those 12 shots should go quickly against hordes of enemy.

grg3d
02-11-2009, 13:54
AndrewGPaul

Originally Posted by grg3d
And after all that I still say / think the Cyclone Missile Launcher was in the White Dwarf that had the Space Wolfs rules in it (WD 147)

Just saying.....
Nope, I checked. That article didn't even have any special rules for the Space Wolves. It's not mentioned in Strike Deep in WD 149 either.

http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_ind...pace_hulk.html

A list of Space Hulk articles in White Dwarf and the Citadel Journal. The only Cyclone rules listed are in CJ 36, and I know they're unofficial because I know the guy who wrote them.


I know there is a White Dwarf with Space Wolfs rules in it because I remember it giving "ALL" the SW an extra +1 to Hand to Hand combat on top of any other bonuses that they may receive as far as weapons or rank due to their toughness/ prowess in combat :rolleyes:

Either that or I'm Crazy:D

AndrewGPaul
02-11-2009, 16:01
There was. It just wasn't that one. WD 147 was 6 months before the Space Wolves became a non-Codex Chapter. It was the Return To Kalidus campaign in WD 158 that gave all Space Wolves +1 in hth combat, and the Fangs of Fenris campaign for 2nd edition gave them 5AP instead of 4.

grg3d
02-11-2009, 17:41
I feel so sane now...thanks and there was no rules for the cyclone in it?
Glad I didn't swear on my mom's grave as she gets mad about spending time in H....