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View Full Version : is the hell pit abomination a monster?



danny7865
14-11-2009, 22:03
can beast cowers be cast at a hell pit abomination , in the book it is not classed as a monster but everything seems to indicate that it behaves like one.....

Kayosiv
14-11-2009, 22:29
If you aren't on a 20x20 or 25x25 mm base and have more than 1 wound, I believe that automatically makes you a monster.

wildkarrde0
14-11-2009, 22:45
monsters are beleive have to be on the the large base and have 5 wounds min and not be characters to be affect by beast cowers so i'm 99% sure the abomination counts as one so might the doom wheel as well

Ultimate Life Form
14-11-2009, 22:50
If you aren't on a 20x20 or 25x25 mm base and have more than 1 wound, I believe that automatically makes you a monster.

The Black Coach begs to differ.


monsters are beleive have to be on the the large base and have 5 wounds min

That's just utterly wrong. I can instantly think of half a dozen monsters that have less than 5 wounds.

knightime98
14-11-2009, 23:36
Well then answer the question as matter of factly, Ultimate Life Form!

Falkman
15-11-2009, 00:14
Here's a matter-of-factly answer:
Yes, the Hell pit a-bomb is a monster.
Very few monsters in the game have rules that straight out says they're monsters, most of them are just obvious by their normal rules.

Ultimate Life Form
15-11-2009, 00:21
Well then answer the question as matter of factly, Ultimate Life Form!

I have no idea. According to the BRB, a model's status is defined by its base size, among other things. As no one knows the HPA's base size, thanks to GW stupidity, its status is hitherto undefined.

Hints:

Infantry is said to be made of Regiments (X)
Cavalry is said to have 1 wound (X)
War Machines are said to have crew (X)
Chariots have horses and crew (X)
Characters are powerful individuals and MAY follow Monster rules (O)
Monsters fight individually (O)

So as the rules are written, by using the logic of mutually exclusive, the HPA is strongly hinted to be a Monster, though we cannot be sure, with the added option of being a Character. Now I know common sense would suggest that characters are meant to be Lord/Hero choices, but nowhere it says so, it's only hinted at in the Characters section.

RAW, we know nothing.

Going by logic, the HPA should be considered a Monster and I would have it cower.

Kalandros
15-11-2009, 00:22
And this is one more thing Games Workshop cannot ever get right: Base Sizes and unit type.

Some armybooks like Vampire Counts give us each type: infantry, cavalry, chariot, monster, flying unit and then the other armybooks keep us in the dark.

It is sooo annoying.

But anyway, yes the Abombination is a Monster.

Cannonballninja
15-11-2009, 02:26
If a huge rolling blob of screaming flesh and dripping orifices is not a monster...then I do not know what is ;)

Ultimate Life Form
15-11-2009, 02:28
If a huge rolling blob of screaming flesh and dripping orifices is not a monster...then I do not know what is ;)

Grandmother in a wheelchair?

(counts as a chariot)

mattjgilbert
15-11-2009, 08:15
We have assumed the hpa is a Monster: can't see what else it would be really. As for base size, for now it's left up to the player to model the thing so either a 50x50 base or a chariot base seems appropriate (basically something that matches other monsters).

Our skaven player is building his hpa on a chariot base.

Askil the Undecided
16-11-2009, 09:44
Unit entry clearly states



Unit Type:
Monster

Atrahasis
16-11-2009, 09:49
Can you be more specific about where it says that?

I can't see it on page 56 or 57.

paulb11
16-11-2009, 10:27
P106
Under the statline

EvC
16-11-2009, 18:22
Does it give the same for Doomwheels and the like?

Atrahasis
16-11-2009, 18:25
No.

It's quite odd actually - it lists the Abomination's unit type in the spot where for other units it lists their unit size (which is how I missed it the first time). The Doomwheel has a Unit Size of 1 listed, and no unit type.

paulb11
16-11-2009, 18:26
No they have Unit Size not Unit Type.

Edit
16-11-2009, 20:52
the doomwheel is an oddball, its a warmachine/chariot more than a monster though, it has crew, but they jam them into one stat line, but so does the warp lightening cannon, etc in teh new book.

I consider it a warmachine, but gave half points for wounds as it felt more reasonable that way. none of the steamtank dead y/n thing.

Spiney Norman
17-11-2009, 14:05
the doomwheel is an oddball, its a warmachine/chariot more than a monster though, it has crew, but they jam them into one stat line, but so does the warp lightening cannon, etc in teh new book.

I consider it a warmachine, but gave half points for wounds as it felt more reasonable that way. none of the steamtank dead y/n thing.

So can I "commandment of brass" the Doomwheel?

Just checking ;)

EvC
17-11-2009, 17:54
We've no way of knowing at this point.

Edit
17-11-2009, 18:44
So can I "commandment of brass" the Doomwheel?

Just checking ;)

I would allow it, sure. Makes more sense than beast cowers to me

Edit: I may play in tournaments, but you will find I am a reasonable person :)

ZeroTwentythree
17-11-2009, 19:23
I would allow it, sure. Makes more sense than beast cowers to me



I don't know. Making the rats powering the thing cower also seems reasonable.

wena
17-11-2009, 21:46
Ok - if the HPA is a monster then can it pivot during it movement per the BRB Monster movement rules? Can it go the whole distant rolled moving directly forward and then pivot at the end of it's movement?

nosferatu1001
17-11-2009, 22:07
No reason why not - it can also poivot before it moves

EvC
17-11-2009, 22:10
Well yes there are plenty of reasons, the Hellpit's movement rules tell you exactly how...

nosferatu1001
17-11-2009, 22:29
From what I can tell the movement rules only state to move it directly forwards in the direction you choose - nothing there denying you the "free pivot" at the end of your move that I can see.

Atrahasis
17-11-2009, 23:26
Q. Is a non-skirmishing unit that moves via
compulsory movement (e.g. Chaos Spawn, Snotling
Pump Wagon) allowed to pivot to change its facing
at the end of its move (to set-up favourable
alignment of enemy charges, etc.)?
A. This is never clearly specified, but we think it is
best if they remain facing the direction they moved
in. This not only looks and feels ‘right’, but also
remains in line with the way fleeing units move
(they are, after all, by far the most common type of
unit subject to compulsory movement).

2nd BRB FAQ

nosferatu1001
18-11-2009, 01:32
Damn, the one time I don't check the FAQ first....

Good catch Atrahasis :)

Slot
18-11-2009, 23:18
I have been told that the HPA will be on a very big base, screaming bell size if i remember rightly. Although it is a long way off release.

Atrahasis
18-11-2009, 23:26
The examples shown on the website are on 50x50 and 50x100.

Slot
18-11-2009, 23:52
Is the Stegadon base 50x100? If it is, that's the one. Just realised the screaming bell is bigger than that

Spiney Norman
20-11-2009, 01:18
I saw a great converted abom yesterday at my local hobby store. One of the blue-shirts had taken a warhammer giant and sculpted fur all over it, it was awesome to behold...

Harwammer
22-11-2009, 01:43
Q. Is a non-skirmishing unit that moves via
compulsory movement (e.g. Chaos Spawn, Snotling
Pump Wagon) allowed to pivot to change its facing
at the end of its move (to set-up favourable
alignment of enemy charges, etc.)?
A. This is never clearly specified, but we think it is
best if they remain facing the direction they moved
in. This not only looks and feels ‘right’, but also
remains in line with the way fleeing units move
(they are, after all, by far the most common type of
unit subject to compulsory movement).

2nd BRB FAQ

"There is no answer to this question, but we recommend you don't"

... great. Another 'answer' just like the one about prematurely ending the call of hero spell.