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Son of Sanguinius
18-12-2009, 08:25
I wonder exactly what their niche as a chapter is going to be. Blood Angels aren't so glaringly obvious as say the White Scars or Iron Warriors are. I suspect they're going to be like a close range firefight army with heavy assault elements to polish off the job.

I agree, and I think that is what they should be.

In the background, up until the over the top treatment of the Ultramarines, the Blood Angels were every bit the paragons of the Astartes ideal. The only real difference was the darkness hidden within their souls. They were the best of the best, particularly up close.

Chaplain Desmodus
18-12-2009, 09:27
Originally Posted by Black Hand
You forgot SHP.

No I didn't. There is (or should be) only one Sanguinary High Priest (SHP), and that is Corbulo, who fits under the heading of Special Characters ;)

Hmmm, no not quite.

In the 3rd Ed BA codex, there was an entry for generic SHP. Rules-wise it was almost identical to todays SM chaplain. ("The Sanguinary priests are ruled over by Sanguinary High Priests who also oversee the Transformation and strive to find a cure for the Black rage and the Red Thirst", ""the Red Grail holds the blood of the Sanguinary High Priests, who in turn have had the blood of the Primarch himself injected into their veins upon their initiation into that highest of orders").

Corbulo was simply the highest ranking priest of the chapter ("most highly praised and mightiest among the Sanguinary priests is Brother Corbulo").

Personally, I'd like to se a generic SHP entry with rules similar to CSM chaplains but with some kind of twist. Perhaps they could wield a power similar to that of a company banner or Holy Shroud, combined with giving FNP to any squad they join (from the exsanguinator).

Griffindale
18-12-2009, 09:34
This thread reminds me of why I am so excited that Blood Angels will be getting a new codex soon. I was afraid for a while there that Blood Angels would be going the way of the Dark Eldar(No offense DE players). That is to say that I was beginning to get the feeling that GW no longer knew what they wanted to do with them. I'm glad that we'll be getting this new codex soon and we can hammer out these issues and give the Blood Angels a fresh breath of life.

Koris
18-12-2009, 10:17
Everyone saying FC doesn't make sense is soooo wrong imo

if space wolfs get acute senses AND counter attack I think blood angels should get furious charge and feel no pain for there first round of combat to show them letting the black rage slip in combat which happens to them all the time

But not all Blood Angels are blood thirsty, dribbling, flesh rending lunatics.
They spend their entire Space Marine lives fighting the grip of the Black Rage and Red Thirst.
I could see it for the Assault Squads at a push. And definitely being retained for the Death Company (unless they get something specific and even more killy)

trigger
18-12-2009, 10:39
The prob with FC with I4 S4 models/units is in the current game its to hard. I very much doubt BA will get it across the board. Should be kept for death company and the grail only. POS Mepheston (spelt wrong but dont have codex).

TheHarrower
18-12-2009, 15:03
Not really. You just upgrade up to one model per squad into a DC member with whatever wargear, the price is added to the squad he belongs to. When you start the game, you take all the DC upgraded units out of the squads they are in and create a new unit made up of them, a unit that can not hold objectives and only gives up a KP if they stay alive at the end.

I guess my main point is I don't want to have Tactical Squads with 9 marines in them. That would get on my nerves. Plus, I do think it would be a bit fiddly when making an army list. It would also cause issues with combat squads.

Fluffwise I would think that the BAs would would fill in a squad if a member had succumbed to the Black Rage. Why would you reduce combat effectiveness but not adding in an extra member? Just my 2 cents.

TalonZahn
18-12-2009, 15:48
I believe the fluff actually says that the Chaplains go around to all the battle brothers on the eve of battle to check for The Rage. Then those marines are removed from their units and formed into the DC. Surely if Squad A loses 2 marines to the DC, they would just pull 2 replacements from elsewhere to refill it to full strength.

They have plenty of time to locate any marine about to go off the deep end. So DC should not be pulled from the squads minutes before battle, a.k.a. the Deployment Phase. DC should be optional, and the retinue ideas are the best way to represent this.

If they wanted to represent The Rage during battle, then there should be a roll upon HtH contact with the enemy or even at deployment. Then each squad could take on some part of the DC rules.

Back to Squad A. Using the rule I just suggested, they lose 2 guys on the roll at HtH contact. Squad A now gets to slough off 2 wounds before actually removing any casualties, starting with the 3rd wound suffered. Maybe the squad gets +2 attacks in HtH, instead of the +2 wounds for the squad. Gives some flavor/options to the army that I don't see as over the top. Lots of possibilities here.

ant1clock
18-12-2009, 15:53
Give the BA a special rule that gives you the number of free DC from the roll of 2D6. These DC do not come from existing squads but are in addition to those from your points list.

As suggested above this special rule could come into play when fielding a chaplain.

As for the rest of the new codex if and when it arrives (hopefully April) I would hope to see the following.

Mixed Terminator squads, CC and shooty.
Assaulting out of rhinos
Rafen and the spear of Telesto

TheHarrower
18-12-2009, 17:47
Give the BA a special rule that gives you the number of free DC from the roll of 2D6. These DC do not come from existing squads but are in addition to those from your points list.

That doesn't work either. Where does the cost for those models come from? Plus, how different does my game go if I roll a 12 one time and a 2 another?

I still like fixed models that I pay for IF I want them. There are so many reasons why that makes the most sense that I'd honestly be surprised if its done differently.

szlachcic
18-12-2009, 18:18
But not all Blood Angels are blood thirsty, dribbling, flesh rending lunatics.

QFT. It blows my mind how many BA players actually think their entire chapter is supposed to be this way. :confused:

FerociousBeast
18-12-2009, 18:35
Furious Charge does not equal "blood-thirsty, dribbling, flesh-rending lunatic." Fearless plus Feel No Pain plus Rending equals "blood-thirsty, dribbling, flesh-rending lunatic."

And it wouldn't be overpowered. Furious Charge would be largely wasted on many units in the dex, like Devastators and Tacticals who will more likely be shooting than charging into CC.

The comparison to Space Wolves bears further consideration. Space Wolves, the berserkers, have an ability that means they just about always have +1 attack on the first round of combat. Blood Angels with FC would have an ability that means they are especially potent on the first round of combat if they get the charge. The two are similar in potency.

Blood Angels should not get combat tactics, they should get Furious Charge. And, by the way, they won't get combat tactics. GW has shown a marked aversion to doing anything "boring" with their latest codexes, and giving the Blood Angels the same ability as the Ultramarines would definitely be boring.

ant1clock
18-12-2009, 19:12
@TheHarrower

The cost, they're free, nothing, zip. The chance you take is you get from 2 - 12 in any one game. With those odds I wouldn't plan my game around them or with them. I would use them to draw fire, which is what usually happens anyway. But a twelve man squad could turn the tide. Perhaps using them this way you would have to make them uncontrollable, they always have to head toward the enemy, chaplain or not.

Griffindale
18-12-2009, 19:29
GW has also shown an aversion to random generation. I don't think they will do it that way.

I also hope they don't. I don't want a repeat of the pdf. I HATE paying for my dc every game. I often times don't want them. I have to agree with The Dude that on the 40k scale of battle, DC should be optional. They would be deployed on an as needed basis.

Army wide FC is an extremely lazy way of doing things. I think it would be messy and unelegant. I could see a special character giving that sort of effect, but army wide all the time would be lame imo. I think we can expect to see special characters giving effects like that all the time. I could see a Flesh Tearers special character possible giving a similar effect.

Kloud13
18-12-2009, 20:04
I apologise in advance for what I'm about to say is not a rumour, but it's just my own ideas on what should be.

I would rewrite the DC rules altogether, and this is what I would do. (first draft)

At the begining of the game, every infantry unit (before they are combat squaded) rolls, and D3 -1 models have sucumbed to the Black Rage. (maybe even -1 for units with more than 10 models, and -2 for units less than 10.)

Models with the Black Rage, gain +1 attacks, and the Furious charge ability, and maybe as well a variation of Independant Character.

My variation of IC would allow them to stay in their parent unit, go solo, or join a Chaplain.

Just my wishlist, trying to keep us all entertained untill next solid rumour surfaces.

massey
18-12-2009, 20:48
They'll probably be a seperate unit, like LotD. I agree that is the way it should be. I think it would be interesting to go back to giving the DC 2 wounds each. Let them be equipped differently from one another, so the BA player can do a bit of wound allocation gaming. Give them Furious Charge and the ability to choose X number of power weapons/fists. 2 attacks base, 2 weapons. Jump packs optional. That would be a fairly effective unit, not overpowered (no FNP, no stacking saves), and completely optional. It's how I would do it if I were writing the codex.

wilsongrahams
18-12-2009, 20:59
Whatever they do, they should have a unit that you want to send into battle and for them to die, rather than surviving. Something akin to some of the Wolf Sagas maybe. Cheap as chips cannon fodder, or elite killing machines, either way, as a life long Blood angels player, I have always wanted to see my Death Company have their peace before the end of the battle, and hopefully take some enemy out along the way. Anything that can get them into the enemy whatever the odds is a good idea in my opinion. Something reckless about them, like not fighting in combat normally - being very good at killing, but count as low WS when the enemy come to strike back as defending themselves should be far from their mind. What do you all think?

shabbadoo
18-12-2009, 21:19
@TheHarrower

The cost, they're free, nothing, zip. The chance you take is you get from 2 - 12 in any one game. With those odds I wouldn't plan my game around them or with them. I would use them to draw fire, which is what usually happens anyway. But a twelve man squad could turn the tide. Perhaps using them this way you would have to make them uncontrollable, they always have to head toward the enemy, chaplain or not.

So, an extra 50-300 points free, just for playing BA? AWESOME!!! :rolleyes: Even if they were just frothing maniacs, anybody who couldn't work that into a coherent battle plan probably needs to wear a helmet when they go out and play.

"You get these free, just because" is never a good idea.

Leggy
18-12-2009, 21:20
And it wouldn't be overpowered. Furious Charge would be largely wasted on many units in the dex, like Devastators and Tacticals who will more likely be shooting than charging into CC.


Tacticals will benefit as they'll be rhino rushed across the board for assaults. Devestators will simply not get taken. Basically it'll lead to third ed blood angels again.

The Dude
18-12-2009, 23:17
Hmmm, no not quite.

In the 3rd Ed BA codex, there was an entry for generic SHP. Rules-wise it was almost identical to todays SM chaplain. ("The Sanguinary priests are ruled over by Sanguinary High Priests who also oversee the Transformation and strive to find a cure for the Black rage and the Red Thirst", ""the Red Grail holds the blood of the Sanguinary High Priests, who in turn have had the blood of the Primarch himself injected into their veins upon their initiation into that highest of orders").

Corbulo was simply the highest ranking priest of the chapter ("most highly praised and mightiest among the Sanguinary priests is Brother Corbulo").

Personally, I'd like to se a generic SHP entry with rules similar to CSM chaplains but with some kind of twist. Perhaps they could wield a power similar to that of a company banner or Holy Shroud, combined with giving FNP to any squad they join (from the exsanguinator).

I don't really want to get into this argument again, but an organisation can really only have one High Priest.

Regardless of the dogma of the Blood Angels and how the Sanguinary Priests fit into it, there will only be one Sanguinary Priest who oversees the rest in a High Priest role. That is Corbulo. Call him what you want to represent your SHP from whatever period of history/successor Chapter you're playing, but they only need the one entry.


And it wouldn't be overpowered. Furious Charge would be largely wasted on many units in the dex, like Devastators and Tacticals who will more likely be shooting than charging into CC.

And that's the point. Everything needs a cost, and for that it would lileky be Chapter Tactics (a rule which benefits all squads equally). As Leggy points out, Squads that have a largely redundant rule in place of a more useful one will simply not me taken.

FC across the board will simply lead to all BA armies being CC builds. If that's the case, why even have Devestators? Third edition does indeed illustrate this perfectly.

AmasNagol
19-12-2009, 01:27
The PDF is an incredibly balanced list with it's one good build. It's just boring as hell.

FerociousBeast
19-12-2009, 02:14
It needs hardly be said, but the Rhino rules were different in 3rd, hence the moniker "Rhino Rush."

A free ability does not need to be similarly useful for every single unit that has access to it. The same argument can be made for counter attack and Long Fangs or furious charge and lootas. Both units work fine within the list that has been constructed around them despite the lack of a special rule that applies equally to them.

Anyway, I would personally be very surprised if the BA special rule doesn't end up being FC. Enough BA players have stated here and elsewhere that they want it; it hearkens back to a previous edition which seems to be all the rage; it's a simple way to differentiate the BAs; it's really not overpowered; it provides a nice contrast to the other CC chapter, the Space Wolves: SW are berzerkers, meaning lots of frenzied attacks, while BA are skilled warriors, meaning fewer attacks but better.

Joewrightgm
19-12-2009, 03:29
And it wouldn't be overpowered. Furious Charge would be largely wasted on many units in the dex, like Devastators and Tacticals who will more likely be shooting than charging into CC.


I think we could look at the Space Wolves codex about 'army wide' rules that are wasted on certain units; IE Long Fangs.

Long Fangs have counter-attack, and while it could be argued that this improves their close combat prowess as they are more apt to be charged than actually charging themselves.

I find that more often as not, units such as Long Fangs get whittled down at range instead of being engaged in close combat. So really, for sake of consistency and 'rule of cool' which we've been seeing GW do a lot lately, why not Furious Charging Tacticals and Devastators?

To paraphrase, "Do not ask 'why special rules', rather ask why not?" :D

ant1clock
19-12-2009, 15:59
The rumour mill has started to go quite on the BA front, I hope its just the ramp up for the Nid release or the holidays. Anybody heard anything. I'm starting to think that perhaps I've been imagining the whole thing :-).

If we don't get some new rumours soon I can see this thread getting closed.

Zanzibarthefirst
19-12-2009, 20:12
Assuming they arent coming out till April/May time then news will probably not start coming through until Battle Missions has been released

Monachus
19-12-2009, 23:28
The rumour mill has started to go quite on the BA front

it hasn't so much gone quiet, it's more a case of the rumours have not actually started yet,
the early 'nids rumours only really circulated around faked rumours initially and didn't really get started until about 7 weeks before release, bar the occasional hint

Son of Sanguinius
20-12-2009, 08:42
I think we could look at the Space Wolves codex about 'army wide' rules that are wasted on certain units; IE Long Fangs.

Long Fangs have counter-attack, and while it could be argued that this improves their close combat prowess as they are more apt to be charged than actually charging themselves.

I find that more often as not, units such as Long Fangs get whittled down at range instead of being engaged in close combat. So really, for sake of consistency and 'rule of cool' which we've been seeing GW do a lot lately, why not Furious Charging Tacticals and Devastators?

To paraphrase, "Do not ask 'why special rules', rather ask why not?" :D

Careful with that kind of talk. ;)

I'm willing to bet that it's that line of thought that lead to Rending, Fearless, and Eternal Warrior being handed out to units like candy to kids at Halloween.

Joewrightgm
20-12-2009, 16:20
I'd also think it'd add a layer of tactics to blood angels too; often times, at least for me, I don't expect a tactical squad to lean into a charge and be S and I 5 for a round of combat.

Jackmojo
20-12-2009, 20:09
While I have no particular objection to army wide Furious Assault, I'd rather see an emphasis put on mobility and being the specialists in fast assaults via jump pack, Over charged engines, and the like. Mobility rather then pure striking power as it were.

Army wide Overcharged Engines (with an increase in reliability perhaps) would make for an interesting and different Marine list.

Jack

CKO
20-12-2009, 22:26
Who is the writer?

MajorWesJanson
20-12-2009, 23:06
I'd just make OCE a 5-10 point upgrade for any Rhino-chassis or Land Raider.

Black Hand
21-12-2009, 02:44
But not all Blood Angels are blood thirsty, dribbling, flesh rending lunatics.
They spend their entire Space Marine lives fighting the grip of the Black Rage and Red Thirst.
I could see it for the Assault Squads at a push. And definitely being retained for the Death Company (unless they get something specific and even more killy)

But having FC doesn't automatically mean you are a unit of "blood thirsty, dribbling, flesh rending lunatics." Perhaps it means these units just excel at H2H combat, which the BA do greatly. It might help to have it attached to units like VAS, Honor Gaurd or DC. But imo it should stay with the army as a whole. It worked before and it will work again. Only this time with no Rhino rush. :D

Sildani
21-12-2009, 02:52
Who is the writer?

Well, Phil Kelly and Robin Cruddace seem to be tag-teaming it, so since Cruddace wrote Tyranids, perhaps Kelly will write BA.

Or Jervis.

CKO
21-12-2009, 03:31
Or Jervis.



:mad::mad::mad:

:cries:

Black Hand
21-12-2009, 03:40
Or Jervis.


:mad:

HERETIC!!

Motley
21-12-2009, 05:58
Or Jervis.

OOOhhhhh no!!!!!!!!! no again please!!!!!!!!!!!:cries:

This is going to be the first blood angels real book with no, go and check that in the other codex or with somebody else inside the book ...
so please GW not use any of the two guys that have taken the image of the blood angels to the floor....Jervis or swallow pleaseeeee

:cries::cries::cries::cries:

Joshwow1
21-12-2009, 07:31
Just for the record, space wolves are not berzerkers at all, if I recall in the 3rd edition codex, it actually states that unlike the berzerking BLOOD ANGELS, they fight as a coherent, cunning pack......but I digress :p

I can't wait for a new blood angels codex, they need it. I played Blood Angels in 4th edition, but with 5th edition rules, it wasn't worth it (from a competetive view). The death company were there carry (because everything else in the codex is so damned expensives), but once you tone down the carry, the army just fell apart. Which is a shame, cause Dante (imo) is the best power armoured HQ. Period. (And I have played all power armor except for the black templars, which have mediocre special characters)

Preferred enemy to everyone 12', lowers ws and bs to enemies within 6', has a balling stat line to boot, and gives everyone his LD. Oh...and he has a melta gun pistol that shoots at bs 5. So he can break land raiders, then use that weapon as an extra CC on the charge. He's a beast!

And motely, it's Josh from joel's :p never thought I would see someone from the store online! (assuming you are the motely from miami that plays at joel's)

jimbo1701
21-12-2009, 08:20
I actually think the Blood Claws bezerk charge rule would work better for BAs than furious charge, but may be too powerful as an army wide special rule on WS4 models. Saying that, it's no different from CSM and there's a drawback to it with no pistols.

Scorcher505
21-12-2009, 14:35
New rumor posted at B&C, rumor poster claims that it comes from someone he knows who works at GW HQ, Blood Angels are army wide 2 attacks base with army wide furious charge

SPYDER68
21-12-2009, 14:50
New rumor posted at B&C, rumor poster claims that it comes from someone he knows who works at GW HQ, Blood Angels are army wide 2 attacks base with army wide furious charge

I can hope :p

Motley
21-12-2009, 15:04
New rumor posted at B&C, rumor poster claims that it comes from someone he knows who works at GW HQ, Blood Angels are army wide 2 attacks base with army wide furious charge

If thats true ..........music for my ears ...........im going to be jumping for a week!!!!!!




And motely, it's Josh from joel's :p never thought I would see someone from the store online! (assuming you are the motely from miami that plays at joel's)

Damn my secret identity have been revealed!!!!!!!!....lol.....whats up bro?!!!

SPYDER68
21-12-2009, 15:15
I dont see Furious Charge as being to far fetched, for example.. wolves get 1 attack base, then the 3 base weapon options.. If you charge them.. they still get full attacks as if they had charged..

That to me is on par with BA getting furious charge, and be pretty even if we get 2 attacks base, except the fact, we get no bonus if we are charged.. and space wolves dont get their ability if they charge..

Sounds pretty fair to me.

OverchargeThis!
21-12-2009, 15:17
Another thing in favor of furious charge is that is has drawbacks in V edition. It's more likely you will break or kill your assault target, leaving you open return fire more frequently after the consolidation. So while the army is typically quite fast, it will require very well-coordinated assaults to mitigate the disadvantage. Do-able, but seems to me like it will require a fair amount of finesse to make it work right.

The Dude
22-12-2009, 00:14
New rumor posted at B&C, rumor poster claims that it comes from someone he knows who works at GW HQ, Blood Angels are army wide 2 attacks base with army wide furious charge

:cries:

Too much

:cries:

mullinstron
22-12-2009, 04:03
Personally I would not be sad if all marines got Bolter, chainsword and bolt pistol.

SanguinaryDan
22-12-2009, 04:46
:cries:

Too much

:cries:

Don't worry about it too much. That's not what he posted. It was cryptic crud about a, or even some, unit having it. Not army wide.

If that's the Blood Angels you want just pull the stake out of the heart of your copy of the 3e codex and play that.:p

AmasNagol
22-12-2009, 05:22
2 attacks base makes their Tacticals worse than Grey Hunters but their assault marines being better than Blood Claws. That's reasonable.

Furious Charge army wide though... hmmm... Will wait and see. If that's the case, the Death Company are going to get some buffs. WS5 2A with 2 CCW, Rending and Furious Charge most probable.

mullinstron
22-12-2009, 05:41
Why would two attacks base make BA tac marines worse than grey hunters ? They both would then both get 2 attacks and 3 on the charge.

I read the rumor over at B&C and the user is not very specific about what unit this is for. I'm pretty doubtful its 2 attacks across the board. If anything i would expect to see Bolter, Close combat weapon and bolt pistol before 2 attacks base.

Having assault marine troops with 4 attacks on the charge seems a bit silly. I think they are going to stay at the standard 1+1 with 1 for the charge.

The advantage of the Assault marine is not just in the amount of attack they have in assault its also the maneuverability of the unit itself.

~m

AmasNagol
22-12-2009, 06:32
Because Grey Hunters would always get their 3 attacks. A far more beneficial situation for a holding unit.

Whereas having 3 basic attacks but also Initiative and St 5 is incredibly beneficial for models who are going to be taking objectives from holding units. Like assault marines. Who are most likely going to be getting that charge, due to their manoeuvrability. Veteran Assault Squads with Corbulo nearby have this already. So it would simply be a move away from the 'Bubble Build' which is one of the most competitive currently for Angels aside from Razorback Spam.

If Furious Charge is Army Wide, I am curious to see what they have done with the re-jigged Special characters. Dante is the original 'Eternal Warrior' afterall

wilsongrahams
24-12-2009, 11:12
Love the santa scout Black Hand.

Is there any new news on likely models to be released? Speculation and wishlisting doesn't help with planning whet to buy NOW and what to wait to BUY BA specific later.

Apart from a lot of wishlisting surrounding the Codex release, there seems to be very little information on the models being released. A terminator and a power armour set was the way with space wolves, whereas crimson fists have got bits packs - I really hope that BA aren't stuck with a few bits packs as this will be worse than me using the old Death Company models for all the BA iconography.

Does anybody know anything at all apart from the release date? BA specific I want, not that there may be other forces released at the same time. This is the BA thread after all. Feel free to PM me if you need to.

MasterSlowPoke
24-12-2009, 11:40
The only whispering I've heard of is a new Dreadnought (that just so happens to have two DCCWs) to be released alongside Battle Missions in March. I'm not sure if that's just a wish echoing around, though.

A new Baal predator is rather likely, as GW's been getting rid of the platic/metal hybrids lately.

shabbadoo
24-12-2009, 12:36
"I see a Dreadnought in red and black. Over there."

"Oh, That plan is well-known. You'll have to do better than that."

;)

ant1clock
24-12-2009, 12:40
I think rumour wise on both the codex and models front we'll have to wait till next year. Unless santa GW wants to give us an early xmas present and tell us more.

Heres hoping that once the foul xeno nids are out of the way we'll get more info on the dates for both the codex and models.

Till then we can always speculate.

Merry xmas sons of Sanguinius, the Emperor protects.

ThePope
24-12-2009, 20:00
But let's focus on a character who needs a new model AND rules....Tycho. Cool fluff, horrible rules, horrible fig. He should epitomise bloody close combat. Under the black rage, horribly disfigured face. Should be a DC special character and such.

Except he's dead?

daboarder
24-12-2009, 20:12
SO! eldrad is dead to. And besides that tycho is probably THE absolute coolest character ever created. He achieves this buy having not just a cool back story but also because the story of his creation is awesome. In the first battle report for 40k the space marine player had a captain with digital weapons, arti-armour, and a combi-melta. he was "killed" by an orc wierd boy. The name that this captain had been given was brother-captain Tycho and that was the birth of a legend.

Ominous Anonymous
24-12-2009, 20:43
Tycho is also one of the first (if not THE first) named character, isn't he?

spagunk
24-12-2009, 20:50
BTW, not certain if this will be BA related but one can hope. Posted on today's GW Blog post:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=6700024a

"Oh and before I go, if you subscribe to the Games Workshop Newsletter then make sure you check your inbox tomorrow morning - there'll be a little surprise in there for you..."

It is Xmas time and the window for information leaks for March are fast coming up...

Of course this could just be more info on the additional missions or possibly Fantasy but one can dream!

Marshal2Crusaders
24-12-2009, 20:51
Well as stated, 2 attacks base with FC would make the assaults squads more desirable. If RAS were moved from troops back to fast attack, it would put a fair limit on them and keep from having superbuilds. If VAS are more expensive and stay elite unless you take Dante or something, they still have a viable place in the army, at appropriate costs of course.


Personally, I hope its true, Blood Angels should be a high attack army. Space Wolves should be honorbound berzerkers, Blood Angels should be the greatest of the Space Marines, as Sanguinius was the greatest of the Primarchs. The Space Vampire stuff is old and wasted.

MasterSlowPoke
25-12-2009, 02:44
BTW, not certain if this will be BA related but one can hope. Posted on today's GW Blog post:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=6700024a

"Oh and before I go, if you subscribe to the Games Workshop Newsletter then make sure you check your inbox tomorrow morning - there'll be a little surprise in there for you..."

It is Xmas time and the window for information leaks for March are fast coming up...

Of course this could just be more info on the additional missions or possibly Fantasy but one can dream!

I doubt it would be a leak - they typically do those things on a Sunday and that's not really much of a Christmas gift to anyone other than Blood Angels players, anyway.

Vaktathi
25-12-2009, 07:17
Well as stated, 2 attacks base with FC would make the assaults squads more desirable. which would make them killier than Khornate Raptors :wtf:



Personally, I hope its true, Blood Angels should be a high attack army. Space Wolves should be honorbound berzerkers, Blood Angels should be the greatest of the Space Marines, as Sanguinius was the greatest of the Primarchs. The Space Vampire stuff is old and wasted.
I don't recall anywhere that Blood Angels were the greatest of the space marines, rather that they were fairly codex actually with a geneseed flaw, not basically Berzerkers with Aquila's.

Nor do I remember Sanguinius being the greatest of Primarchs.




Blood Angels are pretty much standard marines with a chance to freak out and a couple rare vehicle variants. They have always pretty much been that way, the only exception being having FC on everything in the 3E book, which really wasn't warranted in any way on anything that hadn't already gave into the Red Thirst, and hence was dropped.

Son of Sanguinius
25-12-2009, 07:31
I don't recall anywhere that Blood Angels were the greatest of the space marines, rather that they were fairly codex actually with a geneseed flaw, not basically Berzerkers with Aquila's.

Nor do I remember Sanguinius being the greatest of Primarchs.

In the Blood Angels pdf codex, I believe it says something about how the Blood Angels are the best. But then again, every Marine codex makes that kind of claim. I think the Sanguinius thing comes from the source of my sig, in False Gods. However, it's been blatantly stated everywhere that Horus was, under no uncertain terms, the best.

thenurgler
26-12-2009, 09:39
Sanguinius was certainly not the best primarch in terms of tactics, that belonged to Rogal Dorn and Perturabo with regards to sieges and fortifications, and Horus in terms of general all around tactics and leadership. Guilliman was probably second in generic tactics.

In terms of personal fighting ability I'm willing to listen to Sanguinius being considered the best, although that probably isn't true, but I would be he's up there.

As for blood angels being the best, the PDF codex mentions them being the oldest living and the idea that they need to attribute their minds with careful meditation to prevent the black rage from taking over. This is what makes them the best artists in the Imperium which is what the PDF states.

Blood angels should be strong warriors, but other than Death Company I don't think they should be home to the very best assault warriors in the game. They're assault oriented but not assault limited, and certainly not raving lunatics or vampires.

Azzy
26-12-2009, 10:33
Sanguinius was certainly not the best primarch in terms of tactics, that belonged to Rogal Dorn and Perturabo with regards to sieges and fortifications, and Horus in terms of general all around tactics and leadership. Guilliman was probably second in generic tactics.

In terms of personal fighting ability I'm willing to listen to Sanguinius being considered the best, although that probably isn't true, but I would be he's up there.

I think it's more that Sanguinius was viewed as the most noble of the Primarchs.

ThePope
26-12-2009, 11:12
Sanguinius was certainly not the best primarch in terms of tactics, that belonged to Rogal Dorn and Perturabo with regards to sieges and fortifications, and Horus in terms of general all around tactics and leadership. Guilliman was probably second in generic tactics.

In terms of personal fighting ability I'm willing to listen to Sanguinius being considered the best, although that probably isn't true, but I would be he's up there.

Eh? Even Horus felt that the "Warmaster" title should of been given to Sanguinius as he was by far the most well rounded primarch....

ant1clock
26-12-2009, 15:53
Harrys dropped another criptic hint in the Eldar thread concerning "Vampires in power armour". Nothing else, Boo Hoo.

This is starting to drive me a little crazy. Hee He Hee Hee Ha Ha.

Agree with thePope I'm sure that in one of the first three Horus Heresy books he even says that Sanguinius would have been the better Warmaster.

earemir
26-12-2009, 16:06
Eh? Even Horus felt that the "Warmaster" title should of been given to Sanguinius as he was by far the most well rounded primarch....

That's my understanding. Sanguinius was he best primarch all around but Horus was chosen because he was the first to be found. Horus words

MachineSlave
27-12-2009, 08:25
What kind of visual theme do you think they will give the Blood Angels? It seems with the DA, SW and BT ... and even the Ultramarines they have distinctive characteristics. But so far the Blood Angels of old have been non-descript. Do you think they will remake their image or just stick trinkets on the upgrade sprue and send it out the door?

ant1clock
27-12-2009, 08:57
I don't think we need much for standard marines other than some chapter specific markings, shoulder pads. I would like to see some heads without helmets flashing their fangs. Terminators like the space hulk bretheren would be nice, and plenty of battle damge on their armour.

As one of the oldest chapters would we want our models to use older armour? don't know if this is possible.

snottlebocket
27-12-2009, 10:02
What kind of visual theme do you think they will give the Blood Angels? It seems with the DA, SW and BT ... and even the Ultramarines they have distinctive characteristics. But so far the Blood Angels of old have been non-descript. Do you think they will remake their image or just stick trinkets on the upgrade sprue and send it out the door?

None of the marines were very characteristic in the past. GW just started piling on more detail with each new series of marines.

Currently we're in the baroque age of the marine, where every new marine model is literally covered in detailing. Just take a look at the most recent blood angel models, ie the ones in space hulk. Those terminators are literally covered in custom work, just like the current ultra marines and space wolves.

MachineSlave
27-12-2009, 20:27
My question was more asking about a theme. With DA you have grim reaper meets cathedral. BT went off on the deep end with the cruisader theme. Space Puppies have the viking thing and Ultra smurfs have a Roman gladiator deal. So where are the Blood Angels headed? Are the going to push the Greek Angel thing, or some sort of Romanian Vampire thing like Vlad the Impailer from the last Dracula movie? It was hard to tell where GW was going from the space hulk minis, they just seemed to have a lot of chains and purity seals or is that what they are going for?

VERITAS/AEQUITAS
27-12-2009, 20:52
The current Mephiston miniature is already rather vampire-like. At least IMO. I think it suits the character's background well. I don't think the rest of the models should be the same way. After all the Blood Angels are trying to hide their red thirst in front of other Imperial institutions.

t-tauri
27-12-2009, 23:11
Moved to 40k general. There's no rumour discussion here.

AmasNagol
28-12-2009, 02:36
Eh? Even Horus felt that the "Warmaster" title should of been given to Sanguinius as he was by far the most well rounded primarch....


Where's that from?

ant1clock
28-12-2009, 07:38
@AmosNagal
Page 202 of False Gods. Horus thinks he's dying so he dictating his history to the remeberencer Petronella. He states that "Sanguinius, It should have been him". He then goes on to describe why. Basically as he's the the most rounded as the Pope says.
@MachineSlave
Theme wise what about a bunch of gothic victorians. Perfectly fits out "aloofness" and our "arrogance" and it goes with our Anne Rice side.

Fobster
11-01-2010, 05:09
Might be a good time to rezz.