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wilsongrahams
23-11-2009, 20:43
Anyone know anything about this ancient GW game?

Can you still get the rules?

Did it play similar to Battlefleet Gothic?

I know the models weren't up to much but I am very interested to make my own if there are rules available and if they were any good.

grissom2006
23-11-2009, 20:48
The game was nothing like BG. You may come across the odd sale of it on Ebay and such. Was a fun game and the expansions made it even more fun.

Croaker2
23-11-2009, 21:04
I've still got my High Elf fleet, but, unfortunately none of the rules.

yabbadabba
23-11-2009, 21:15
I have all the rules and a hige dwarf and empire fleet.

one day I will play again :)

wilsongrahams
23-11-2009, 21:31
Did it play more like Titan Legions in gameplay then? I know BFG is based on the new Epic game - new? ten years old now.. sheesh! Doesn't time fly.

If so, maybe I will work on a BFG themed set for myself just for fun. We have been playing BFG and were interested in finding out about sail ship combat games. Google doesn't come up with much, even outside GW.

Gazak Blacktoof
23-11-2009, 23:25
If you want something that's currently supported as a substitute, then I've heard good things about Uncharted Seas (http://www.spartangames.co.uk/uncharted.htm).

Dai-Mongar
23-11-2009, 23:34
I have Man O War and the expansions, plus four fleets. It's a great bit of fun with ridiculously improbable ship designs (I'm looking at you, Chaos Dwarfs!) and it'll be part of the Mighty Empires campaign I'm involved in next year so I'll be getting plenty of use out of it. Uncharted Seas is probably a better game, but I like having the Warhammer flava. Plus OOP games are so much more alternative.

Chaos and Evil
24-11-2009, 01:36
BFG is based on Epic's 3rd edition.
Epic's current edition (4th) uses a different game engine entirely.

Brimstone
24-11-2009, 02:14
The game was nothing like BG. You may come across the odd sale of it on Ebay and such. Was a fun game and the expansions made it even more fun.

Really I thought the expansions made it worse bringing in fleets that broke the core game i.e. Dark Elves.

MoW is a good game, the amount of card involved does slow it down a fair bit though.

I used to play it on a regular basis until last year until Uncharted Seas came out I then switched to that as it's IMO a better game from both a rule and model point of view.

Vogon
24-11-2009, 07:12
Brim, Not quite sure what you're saying there. Dark Elves were in the original rules set, I have a large DE fleet but I find that it struggles and is not broken at all.

Man O War is great fun but you have to have all the cards and so on just picking up the rule book and a couple of fleets from eBay isn't enough. You need to get the full box.

Though I haven't played it I'd go for the uncharted seas thing as it's current and supported.

Cheers

vogon

Brimstone
24-11-2009, 07:23
Bugger must be another fleet I'm thinking of :(

Arjuna
24-11-2009, 08:10
ManOWar

A game like no other. The rules can be found easily on the net. There are also a complete set of cards that are regular playing card size and have the ship templates. This makes it much easier to manage. Seek and ye shall find.

The Game
The game really is not comparable to any current GW game at all. You had to really be organized because of all the counters. Very detailed events.

The Models
Whimsical models that definitely caught the flavor of the game from those days. I really like the models despite their shortcomings. I have, I think over 200 manowar ships. Have to check on that

The Broken Fleet
Chaos Dwarves broke as hell.

The Broken Rules
The rules didnot really become broken so much as over complex. Best thing to do is just not use the flyer rules and give your opponent a huge handicap if you are running the chaos dwarves.

The Fate of MoW
Will live on in perpetuity by dedicated user groups. The ships are damn expensive on ebay and a set of three ships in original packaging can fetch up to $60.

Hrafn
24-11-2009, 10:27
The rules didnot really become broken so much as over complex. Best thing to do is just not use the flyer rules and give your opponent a huge handicap if you are running the chaos dwarves.


Really I thought the expansions made it worse bringing in fleets that broke the core game i.e. Dark Elves.

Have to agree mostly with Brimstone here. The core game (boxed set) was fine, balanced and with good maritime flavour. The expansions made the game needlessly complex, unbalanced and just about removed the maritime flavour as every new fleet was more or less independent of wind...

But I liked the detailed templates a lot - I wished they'd stayed with a similiar system for BFG. I seem to remember that the rules-wise predecessor for MoW was actually Advanced Space Fleet - but I might be wrong ;)

AndrewGPaul
24-11-2009, 15:22
I don't think there was such a thing as "Advanced Space Fleet"; only Space Fleet itself, which had no real similarities to Man O' War (or Battlefleet Gothic, for that matter).

Chadjabdoul
24-11-2009, 15:28
I agree with some of the posters.
The game worked well, as long as you played with the wind and canons.
When they tried to add variety (flyers, unusual ships and magic) the game broke down.
Had tried the orc fleet, at first, but you only ever got to use your drillakillas (fast and suicidal) and wyverns. The hulks and bigchukkas (most useless ships in the game) took forever to get there, and by the time they did battle was pretty much already decided.
(did manage to get two hulks to grab and hammer down a black ark of Naggaroth once, first and only time I saw one of those get sunk).

Eventually switched to brettonians just to play the game in a normal (and more enjoyable) way

Pacorko
24-11-2009, 17:32
Wasn't it "Advanced Space Crusade"? The one with the Space Marine "Wolf" scouts and the first ever Tyranid which looked like horsies from 'ell with an extra set of paws?

That one I remember. As well as Space Fleet.

Then, Man O War was great but as pointed out, you had to excercise your tidy-bone as there were lots of counters, cards and many rules with the most absolute Old-School flava you will ever find (apart from the original Rune Quest rp game). I've to add that no set of rules, old or new, will ever be comprable to its system. It stood well apart and was possibly the second best game made by GW in those years, only beaten quite easily back by Space Hulk's long, long stick.

The only really "bleah, broken" fleet was that of the Chaos Dwarfs, although you could pull a few low blows with HE and Empires while still "within the rules". Orcs had a tough time moving, as pointed out, so with them it was a "let them come" stance you had to take with the greenskins. Black Ark were very tough, not broken, tough. Good positioning and a few hails of cannon-fire would make short work of most them, but if you always wanted to ram them, well...

Nice game all in all, and I'm saying that with nostalgia not even in my emotional radar.

Still Uncharted Seas is a lot better, plays noticeably smoother and faster, and has some of the prettiest (and quiet reasonably priced) ship models to ever grace a table.

Vogon
24-11-2009, 22:00
In my (limited) experience the Black Ark was the only tough thing in the Dark Elf list. The Helldrakes and Doomreavers are incredibly fragile.

I never faced Chaos Dwarves but regular dwarves gave me enough trouble in games. The Nautilus was a particularly nasty little beast as I recall.

Cheers

Vogon

RobC
24-11-2009, 22:43
Advanced rules were released for Space Fleet in White Dwarf, along with extensive background information.

Lord Malorne
24-11-2009, 22:55
As said, get into Uncharted seas, it is a wonderful game.

Lord MalornebC

Osbad
25-11-2009, 10:42
My mate's selling off his old Man O War stuff on fleabay: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/trollfeet/

Again the feeling was while it was a fun game at the time, it got bloated and unweildy, and Uncharted Seas does the whole fantasy naval genre better.

If you like "old-style" GW games with loads of cards and quirky, tiny metal models then you might like the game - if you were a big fan of 2nd edition 40k or the old Space Marine/Titanicus game and preferred them to 5th edition and Epic: Armageddon for instance. Otherwise I'd stay away. Because of the number of collectors out there the stuff tends to go for a packet on eBay - well above its intrinsic value as a game.

Dai-Mongar
25-11-2009, 11:41
To be fair, it wasn't just Man O War that had problems with power creep. Exansions for GW games in those days were more about "What kind of crazy BS can we put in here that will blow some minds?" Which you kind of have to admire, but I wish they'd put out a new edition and tidy it up some with sexy new models.

AndrewGPaul
25-11-2009, 11:48
Advanced rules were released for Space Fleet in White Dwarf, along with extensive background information.

Oh, those. Expanded rules for Space Fleet certainly, but never described as "Advanced Space Fleet". The basic mechanics weren't greatly different to the basic game, as I recall.

Another option, rather than Uncharted Seas, would be to simply convert Battlefleet Gothic; it's already a better 'wet' naval game than it is a space combat game anyway. :) Some rules for moving under sail power, rejig the critical charts and you're laughing. Just replace the prow torpedoes and nova cannon with chase guns.

Alternatively, there's Trafalgar from Warhammer Historical. Obviously it only covers historical ships, but it shouldn't be too difficult to bash in fantasy ships.

Lord Malorne
25-11-2009, 12:10
I play BFG and uncharted seas, people keep saying convert BFG but out of the two uncharted seas is far superior and while BFG is a great system, uncharted seas is easier to learn and to be honest more fun to play.

And it does not hurt that it was meant to be a naval game ;)

Lord Malorneaul

BigRob
25-11-2009, 12:23
MOW was a great game but as said above the expansions overcomplicated matters. The popular fleets (Dwarf and Empire) got a larger range, some fleets were there to add the laughs (Orcs are incredibly weak) and the expansions (mainly the plague fleets) meant even more powerful fleets came along.

The models were great though, things like the Great Winged Terror or the Thunderroller were very warhammer.

Doomharbour http://doomharbour.freehostia.com/Forum/ is reasonably active and there is the yahoo group Sea of Claws if you want more information.

Jedi152
25-11-2009, 12:36
Ok, the uncharted seas undead fleet has undead whales. I'm in!

Brimstone
25-11-2009, 12:56
Ok, the uncharted seas undead fleet has undead whales. I'm in!

They are fairly useful to either ram your enemies or be hitched to the other Bone Griffon (undead) ships to increase their speed.

Bazzmundo
25-11-2009, 20:15
I spent ALL my money on Man O War about 2 years ago. It's a brilliant game. The Rules are all out there on the interweb as are all the Cards etc. The best thing is that someone industrious reproduced them and sized them down. Laminate them, wipable marker and Bob's your uncle no more spillage.

I chased down a full Empire, Dark Elf and Dwarf fleets and a few other bits and pieces. Not cheap. Shame they don't rerelease it, although people said Space Hulk was a pipe dream.... The ironic thing is that getting back into Man O'War got me back into 40k after 12 years and now I have an addiction. 'Back in my Day' all the 'other' games were an entry point to the hobby etc. Shame GW are focused on Big System marketing in my opinion.

Would love to play Uncharted Seas at some point.

WH Hist. Trafalgar's system is similar enough to Man O'War's.

Hrafn
26-11-2009, 14:06
To be fair, it wasn't just Man O War that had problems with power creep.

Not untrue, but I do think that MoW was a fair bit worse than the others.


Oh, those. Expanded rules for Space Fleet certainly, but never described as "Advanced Space Fleet". The basic mechanics weren't greatly different to the basic game, as I recall .

Allright, but I still believe it's a bit easier to term it "Advanced Space Fleet" than "Space Fleet with the expanded rules set from White Dwarf" ;)

The core mechanics (ie. dices in thebox lid) were not that different, but it featured many more rules which turned a simple and bland little game into a real table-top game. Amongst these were differentiated weapons systems, different ship types and real fleet lists for custom fleets. There were also released quite a lot of ship models, including the predessecors for the Imperial ships with the armoured prow. I also recall that the concept of solar wind and Eldar solar sails stem from Advanced Space Fleet. Alle these were incorporated into BFG.
What did not get into BFG as the movement system, where you had to choose a maneuver at a "helm" before you actually moved, meaning you had to think ahead and try and predict what the opponent did. It worked rather well as far as I remember and provided another tactical level..

Oh, now I get nostalgic for Space Fleet :p

yabbadabba
26-11-2009, 15:39
To be fair, it wasn't just Man O War that had problems with power creep. Exansions for GW games in those days were more about "What kind of crazy BS can we put in here that will blow some minds?" Which you kind of have to admire,.... ..... I still do admire it. It was one of the things that made GW great. Balance wasn't as important as creativity and inspiration. I got the impression GW was confident that anything its customers wanted they would convert - models, scenery, rules.
Unlike now :mad:

but I wish they'd put out a new edition and tidy it up some with sexy new models. You can go on and on about that and not just for GW.

AndrewGPaul
27-11-2009, 08:46
Allright, but I still believe it's a bit easier to term it "Advanced Space Fleet" than "Space Fleet with the expanded rules set from White Dwarf" ;)

I just called the whole thing "Space Fleet".