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nifty
01-12-2009, 06:57
i play blood angels as well as eldar and i particularly like the close combat nature of the blood angels.i haven't read much about the black templars but i understand that they are also close combat oriented.i was wondering what the general consensus was on who is better at it?

GodofWarTx
01-12-2009, 07:38
As of right now?

Black Templars.

The cheaper troop choices, access to close combat weapons, and vows easily defeat the BA.

My BA went from an assault oriented army to a short-ranged shootout army, if that tells you anything. My BT remain the fast moving infantry horde that deals out a serious amount of re-rollable attacks.

IcedAnimals
01-12-2009, 08:33
Right now I would say Black Templar as well. However I highly doubt that will be the same once the new BA dex is released.

pookie
01-12-2009, 09:42
The Sons of Dorn win through currently as they are imo supposed to be the Close Combat Army, they may not have the same amount of choices as a BA has, but they are uniquie in that they can be a Large Horde SM Force, and they excell at this.

Even with the rumoured 2010 release of BA i still dont see the BT losing the Crown of Dedicated Assault force, as the BA are in essance a Codex chapter, who use a lot of Assault troops, but dont mistake this for being a CC SM Force.

if you look at the Modeling side of things the currently the BT are leaps in front of the BA, but if the SW Sprue is any indecation of what GW can produce for Specific Chapters, you may find that the BA have a Larger choice in the future of Plastic Options, even above and beyond the Amazing BT Sprue.

Hadafix
01-12-2009, 10:30
Second the above.

GrimZAG
01-12-2009, 12:53
It depends if this is a purely theoretical discussion or if we should deem it worthy of actualization in a table top game:

BA win in terms of fluff, but as said before the BT are probably your best bet

VanirX
01-12-2009, 13:18
Fluff wise, BA's are supposed to be the kings of assault and I have my fingers crossed that the new BA codex will deviate more away from the vanilla marine codex to reflect this.

pookie
01-12-2009, 13:33
Fluff wise, BA's are supposed to be the kings of assault and I have my fingers crossed that the new BA codex will deviate more away from the vanilla marine codex to reflect this.

fluff wise there a codex chapter, with only a minor divergence to the standard structure of a SM Chapter ( ie DC ) so really they shouldnt.

primarch16
01-12-2009, 16:10
At the moment Black Templars are a superior CC army. I'm not sure about fluff wise, I mean I know about BT fluff and they prefer close combat to shooting, but I'm not sure on Blood Angles, never read anything on them.

Pacific
01-12-2009, 17:25
I've found BA to be really effective with 5th edition - assault units as a troop choice is very useful, and although rending has been downgraded the Death Company are still one of the hardest CC units in the game.

The Furioso is also a pretty effective CC dreadnought, especially when Death Company.

Get started with some basics of an army now, and no doubt it will have the core components in place in time for the new BA codex which will no doubt make them even more powerful.

VanirX
01-12-2009, 18:01
At the moment Black Templars are a superior CC army. I'm not sure about fluff wise, I mean I know about BT fluff and they prefer close combat to shooting, but I'm not sure on Blood Angles, never read anything on them.

Blood Angels strongly preffer close combat over ranged. That is why they make heavy use of jump packs, so that they can close in on the enemy faster and rip them to shreds. It's also why Blood Angels can take assault units as troops. And why they originally have a close combat dedicated dread.

szlachcic
01-12-2009, 19:17
fluff wise there a codex chapter, with only a minor divergence to the standard structure of a SM Chapter ( ie DC ) so really they shouldnt.

Truth. I actually enjoy playing BAs as a short ranged firepower army with certain elements to back up for assaults. I do hope we get a new unit or two (while possibly dropping certain options from the vanilla codex) to differentiate us from codex marines.


Blood Angels strongly preffer close combat over ranged. That is why they make heavy use of jump packs, so that they can close in on the enemy faster and rip them to shreds. It's also why Blood Angels can take assault units as troops. And why they originally have a close combat dedicated dread.

The whole assault squads as troops thing was added in the WD update. Since 3rd edition GW has made BAs more an more CC-oriented, but I prefer them to be more complex than a simple loyalist version of a khorne army.

Luisjoey
01-12-2009, 19:50
Lets wait a 5th edition codex for BA.... could be POWERFULL as the wolves codex!

BT are excellent in Close combat

BA are an assaulting army

Imperius
02-12-2009, 00:14
The Black Templars can only be beaten in close combat by uncommon circumstances.

My Assault Terminator squad with Lightning Claws is going to be re-rolling to hit and to wound with the added bonus of having Furious charge. It is a massive points sink, but when you consider how amazingly dificult it is to kill even one terminator let alone 8 in a LRC you will have something to seriously think about.

Another slight quirk in the codex is that our Land Raider Crusader can have 8 Terminators rather than 7.

Archangel_Ruined
02-12-2009, 00:30
The templars still get access to the old style chaplains of death, combined with lots of power weapons and fists and some seriously questionable vows. What you lose to the new codeces in flexibility and depth you gain in up close and personal attacks and cheap points. I'd rate the templars as the better assault army, the BA as the more versatile force.

Dark_Templar
02-12-2009, 00:47
If BT lose the CC crown when the new BA dex comes out early 2010, they will just get it back later in the year when their rumoured new codex comes out.

They are into 20man footslogging cc squads ready to hand out the hurt.

pookie
02-12-2009, 11:29
The Black Templars can only be beaten in close combat by uncommon circumstances.

My Assault Terminator squad with Lightning Claws is going to be re-rolling to hit and to wound with the added bonus of having Furious charge. It is a massive points sink, but when you consider how amazingly dificult it is to kill even one terminator let alone 8 in a LRC you will have something to seriously think about.

Another slight quirk in the codex is that our Land Raider Crusader can have 8 Terminators rather than 7.

the Vanilla Dex allows LRC with 8 Terminators in, the quirk we have with our LR is that it can only accomodate 10 not 12 Marines, which imo is stupid!