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Photographer
15-12-2009, 18:30
Include
1) ripper jack/face huggers-need 5 to kill/has 8 moves as they're fast
2)lictor instead of broodlord which can camouflage itself but would have mighty blow etc.

http://wackywildwesttown.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-02-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-03-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=2

commandergabriel
15-12-2009, 19:35
Sporemines (sp?) - 1 AP per turn (they're slow), do not block LOS nor impede movement for stealers, DO block LOS for Marines and would detonate like a flamer effect if a Marine moves within 1 square of it. They can be destroyed per shooting rules.

Tyranid warriors - Like Broodlord but you would need shooting rules for bio weapons and that could complicate things...

HaunterV
19-12-2009, 08:00
Include
1) ripper jack/face huggers-need 5 to kill/has 8 moves as they're fast
2)lictor instead of broodlord which can camouflage itself but would have mighty blow etc.

YES! Reminds me of that one Necromunda Campaign I loved so much.


Me I'd add ORKS!! I've already started Brainstorming...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235927

I'd Add Genestealer Hybrids as well.

Photographer
20-12-2009, 21:01
nclude
1) ripper jack/face huggers-need 5 to kill/has 8 moves as they're fast
2)lictor instead of broodlord which can camouflage itself but would have mighty blow etc.

You can't shoot it unless it moves over 4 spaces to denote camouflage?

Destructorn
22-12-2009, 03:53
I'd throw in a book that had every single mission ever written for Space Hulk, and all the tiles necessary to map them out.
I'd include expansion rules for Chaos Terminators and throw in a squad of Chaos Terminators.
I'd replace the sand-timer with an electronic timer that counted down in ever-higher pitches.
I'd bring back '0' blips and 4-6 blips.

I've actually done all this with my new set of Space Hulk, so it's pretty much perfect. Throwing in more and more creatures just turns it into a different sort of game. The current formula is so perfect, there is no need to complicate it further.

wilsongrahams
24-12-2009, 09:37
Though couldn't you just paint your blood angels differently? There's barely any difference between a loyal terminator and a chaos one.

As for the blips, I think it was nice to have the larger blips but people tended to get disappointed or rely on having them. And the '0' blip was useless. It was less genestealers for a stealer player, and using it tactically, was no different from using a '1' blip as it was still a stealer reinforcement blip diverting forces whether it was 1 or 0, except a 0 can't kill anybody if they ignore it and let you sneak around the back.

Kahadras
02-01-2010, 19:10
I'd just bring out an add on pack with more missions, tiles, models etc. A few more Terminators with lightning claws or thunder hammers and storm shields (maybe one with a cyclone missile launcher as well!) and some new stuff for Genestealers (maybe a psychic broodlord of some description).

I'd probably then bring out a futher add on pack adding Chaos into the mix. New missions, new tiles and a bunch of Chaos Terminators along with some other neat toys (maybe some demons)

Kahadras

grimcrazy
02-01-2010, 20:09
Has to be Patriarchs as psykers and Magi

...and new hybrids (with a very limited range of weaponry)

Destructorn
04-01-2010, 01:06
Though couldn't you just paint your blood angels differently? There's barely any difference between a loyal terminator and a chaos one.

There's a massive difference. The Blood Angels figures all have a very distinct personality, there would have to be a LOT of conversion to get them to resemble Chaos Terminators, which are generally a lot more spiky and have a lot more Chaos symbols about them. Besides, why use Blood Angel figures when there are such nice Chaos Terminator figures?

Besides, the Chaos terminators don't FIGHT the stealers- they replace them.

grimcrazy
04-01-2010, 08:59
Do the current Chaos terminators have radically different weaponry - combi-weapons and no close combat specialists? I think in the old Space Hulk they were pretty similar to ordinary marines.

In Space Crusade the Chaos Marines lived onboard a spaceship with genestealers and orks like it was a college dorm! : )

jamesmhebert
05-01-2010, 12:14
I'd throw in a book that had every single mission ever written for Space Hulk, and all the tiles necessary to map them out.
I'd include expansion rules for Chaos Terminators and throw in a squad of Chaos Terminators.
I'd replace the sand-timer with an electronic timer that counted down in ever-higher pitches.
I'd bring back '0' blips and 4-6 blips.

I've actually done all this with my new set of Space Hulk, so it's pretty much perfect. Throwing in more and more creatures just turns it into a different sort of game. The current formula is so perfect, there is no need to complicate it further.

@ Destructorn,
Is there a resource where someone can get the layout of the tiles needed to map out the other missions...? Or the missions themselves? Even something crude would do... I'm building my own set, so actual art is not needed.

You can PM me if the answer is not something that should be public... GM has its spies everywhere! :shifty:

Thanks!

Destructorn
06-01-2010, 00:24
Do the current Chaos terminators have radically different weaponry - combi-weapons and no close combat specialists? I think in the old Space Hulk they were pretty similar to ordinary marines.

I've designed my Chaos Termies to essentially be 'mirrors' of the Blood Angels that come with the set (once I have them all painted up my next mission will be to create a 'third set' of Terminators- the Space Wolves), and the current Terminator boxset actually makes this quite easy to do. Sure, the bolters seem to all have chainsaws coming out of them, but that doesn't necessarily have to be represented by the rules- for all intent and purposes they function in the same fashion as regular Termies.


In Space Crusade the Chaos Marines lived onboard a spaceship with genestealers and orks like it was a college dorm! : )

Indeed! I did in fact used to have a Genestealer Cult that worshiped Chaos, so it's not unheard of to have `stealers and Chaos marines making war under the same banner. Would the thrall of chaos be enough to over-ride the genetic programming of the `stealers once the hive fleet arrived? Would Chaos indeed be able to prevent the homing signal that `stealer cults emit? Either way, it'd be fun to see a chaos `stealer cult try to fight off Tyranids, ho ho!

I do believe there was also once rules for making a Chaos-worshipping Ork cult, but even in those circumstances I can't see the Orks and `stealers getting on for very long.

Jagged
06-01-2010, 15:38
I am tempted to say create a hybrid add-on.

I loved the old hybrids but the card-based psychic game while fun, was a very different game from normal space hulk and not necessarily "better" :)

Destructorn
06-01-2010, 23:40
Agreed- a great part of the appeal of SH is it's simplicity. I enjoyed the hybrids too but ultimately the game started to become 40k- which we already have. It got so bloated a lot of the original magic was lost in the shuffle. I much prefer a solid core game with the occasional special rule.

grimcrazy
07-01-2010, 10:17
The card system seemed very complex and slow (I remember playing the game as a kid so maybe it would be easier now?)

I like the idea of a few hybrids with a very limited range of not very powerful weapons (maybe as an end of level boss or one off event like the broodlord).

I saw an old mission where a patriarch had four guards who could not leave his room.

grimcrazy
07-01-2010, 10:21
Talking about Chaos Genestealers... remember Patrairchs could get posessed by demons and grow horns and stuff!!!

wilsongrahams
08-02-2010, 08:09
Have recently been fiddling with an XP system to apply during a campaign.

It's not finalised yet, as I intend making different lists for the close combat guys and for the heavy weapons, but each mission you survive gives 1xp. the first bonus is after 2xp, where during your own turn you are allowed an extra turn of sustained fire bonus - to 4+ on your third shot therefore, but not on overwatch. This is taken a little from 1st ed where the sustained fire bonus got better all the time anyway. I also have +1 CAB for 5xp which is the level sergeants start at for example, and 1xp is for captain (+2cab) incase I play a long campaign. For CC guys I was thinking +1 CAB at 3xp, 6xp and 9xp, allowing up to +3 total, with +4 with thunder hammer - though surviving 9 space hulk missions in a row would be unlikely.

So far, I have not thought much on the flamer, but for the assault cannon, I was thinking of going for a 2nd ed overkill rule rather than a bonus to sustained fire, allowing more than one kill from a burst.

Before I create a post with all my ideas, are there any other thoughts anyone may have that may help me to streamline this a little.

ps: I'm aware that some of these bonuses, once stacked up could make for very powerful models, but you have to understand that these models aren't very likely to actually get those upgrades, and losing a sergeant without another available at 5+ xp will mean you lose the CP token replacement option until another model is promoted.

I am also working on rules for other Tyranid organisms, as well as having already done eldar and marines. These are being playtested (slowly) before I post anything though.

HaunterV
10-02-2010, 08:29
Have recently been fiddling with an XP system to apply during a campaign.

It's not finalised yet, as I intend making different lists for the close combat guys and for the heavy weapons, but each mission you survive gives 1xp. the first bonus is after 2xp, where during your own turn you are allowed an extra turn of sustained fire bonus - to 4+ on your third shot therefore, but not on overwatch. This is taken a little from 1st ed where the sustained fire bonus got better all the time anyway. I also have +1 CAB for 5xp which is the level sergeants start at for example, and 1xp is for captain (+2cab) incase I play a long campaign. For CC guys I was thinking +1 CAB at 3xp, 6xp and 9xp, allowing up to +3 total, with +4 with thunder hammer - though surviving 9 space hulk missions in a row would be unlikely.

So far, I have not thought much on the flamer, but for the assault cannon, I was thinking of going for a 2nd ed overkill rule rather than a bonus to sustained fire, allowing more than one kill from a burst.

Before I create a post with all my ideas, are there any other thoughts anyone may have that may help me to streamline this a little.

ps: I'm aware that some of these bonuses, once stacked up could make for very powerful models, but you have to understand that these models aren't very likely to actually get those upgrades, and losing a sergeant without another available at 5+ xp will mean you lose the CP token replacement option until another model is promoted.

I am also working on rules for other Tyranid organisms, as well as having already done eldar and marines. These are being playtested (slowly) before I post anything though.

dont be afraid to post, get that feedback sooner than later.

I know I have been getting help on my thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239490)

wilsongrahams
12-02-2010, 20:31
EXPERIENE_____+1 XP for surviving a mission

_____________________________Rank_____Std Term_____CC Term_____AC Term
0XP = No change______________Marine
1XP = No change______________Marine
2XP = +2 max* sus fire bonus___Veteran____+2 SFB*
3XP = +2 max** sus fire bonus__Veteran____+2 SFB**_____+1 CAB
4XP = +1 CAB________________Veteran_____+1 CAB__________________+1 CAB
5XP = Reroll CP_______________Sergeant____Reroll CP_____Reroll CP_____Reroll CP
6XP = +3 max* sus fire bonus___Sergeant___+3 SFB*______+2 CAB
7XP = +3 max** sus fire bonus__Sergeant___+3 SFB**
8XP =_______________________Chaplain
9XP = +4 max* sus fire bonus___Chaplain_________________+3 CAB
10XP = +2 CAB________________Captain____+2 CAB___________________+2 CAB
* Applies in own turn only - overwatch not changed
** Applies to all shooting - own turn and overwatch

SFB = Sustained Fire Bonus. Each succesive turn will allow extra chances to kill if your total maximum is increased - this is just like 1st edition but dependent upon XP points rather than being always in play.

So this is the raw form at the moment, with nothing yet set for the Heavy Flamer apart from using the CC Terminator set. There are gaps as I said, and there will need to be some serious testing. This was to go with my own campaign which is surrently unfinished, so maybe could work with any standard campaign but it may unbalance things.

Let me know what you think. I may start my own thread later with everything I'm working on (I'm also doing Eldar, Tyranids, Marines and other campaigns!).

ScanMan
17-12-2010, 20:52
@Wilsongrahms I appreciate your thoughts on a XP system but try to remember these are the terminators of the 1st company, they are already veterans of a thousand campaigns! The stats they have reflect that experiance. They arnt just some noobs walking in there.

As for improving space hulk I think corridors that only the genestealers can use (like air vents). I would also like to see missions where genestealers have a goal other than just killing the terminators.(protecting a lair, moving from A to B while trying to keep low casualties) These would both make for a more dynamic genestealer game.

The terminators are already perfect.

Chaos terminators would be intresting especially if they were a 3rd prencense on a board(3 player game). Imagine a game where The Blood Angels Terminators are trying to capture an objective, while the Word Bearer Terminators are trying to destroy the control room, meanwhile the genestealers are running amok with their own objective.

I really hope GW will release more tiles in the future. I would love some big rooms.

wilsongrahams
19-12-2010, 20:00
Very true, although my thinking was that even veterans rarely have experience fighting genestealers. In fact it had been 600 years up to that point so most had never done it aboard a space hulk.

The pc game vengeance of the blood angels had a mission on it where the maries were all isolated in their own rooms and the genestealers had to go through air ducts and get past each of them in turn to reach the end of the level. With the limited ammo supply and close combat terminators in that level, it was pretty tactical at times.

Chaos terminators rules wise would operate the same as the blood angels I'd have thought, unless it was marines vs marines, which would just end up being a dumbed down 40k game really, rather than true space hulk.

ScanMan
20-12-2010, 05:49
Touche, you make a good point that genestealers are a relative new foe. Which would make experience in combat operations rare against them.

I was unfortunate that I was never able to play the PC version of the game. Although I have recently watch videos on youtube and it looks fun and very challenging. I did however play a game called Chaos Gate which was a move and shoot points system game. It was a really outstanding game largely due to the terrific 40k defining soundtrack.

I see what you mean about Terminator vs terminator games. Although I feel like Chaos Terminators would be the easiest conversion of the game. You would only have to decide how to reflect the difference of the Reaper-AutoCannon, and the Assault Cannon. Throw in a Sorcerer to replace the Librarian and youre good to go!

nedius
21-12-2010, 17:17
So, would anyone be interested in creating a fan made supliment?

We could add in some of these ideas!

To make it a proper supliment, we'd need:


new board sections
new badguys
new rules (some or all of new weapons, good guys, bad guys, features)
new missions
supliment book


I'm STILL working on my mission book for the 1st PC space hulk game, but it could be a template for a suppliment, if people might be interested.
http://nedius.webs.com/deathwing%20campaign%20book.pdf

Off the top of my head, either hybrids, tyranids or deamons would be a good starting point for a fan-supliment. Hybrids are a space hulk classic (issues with models, though). Tyranids are an obvious expansion for genestealers. Many deamons are already simmilar to genestealers, CC based.

What do people think?

bosky
21-12-2010, 21:33
Personally I think some of the beauty and elegance of Space Hulk (especially 1st edition) lies in it's simplicity. I know the natural tendency is to pile on more and more and MORE of everything, but at some point the game becomes bogged down and loses that original, tense flavor.

So I guess I'm saying I like Space Hulk as is :)

(Although admittedly I'd love to integrate Space Hulk into a game of Battlefleet Gothic for boarding actions somehow)

zerodemon
21-12-2010, 23:43
I've added in Genestealers with leadership qualities or extended carapace using the Cthulhu head or the extended carapace pieces from the Genestealer kit. Both are minor rules changes but throw up really interesting new complications for the marine player. Armoured stealers can only ever be killed on a 6, negating the sustained fire bonus (which, as you can guess, makes them much more dangerous over a short run) and the Cthulhu 'stealers act as a psychic focal point, granting himself and all 'stealers who start their movement within 3 squares an extra AP. They are mission specific additions as opposed to a general rules change, much like the Broodlord.

The campaign I'm writing is being posted over the next few months on my blog. Mission I is up both there and on the forum here as Mission I - Breakthrough.

http://spacehulkmissions.blogspot.com/

grg3d
21-12-2010, 23:43
Hi All what would I do to improve Space Hulk?
Well in my gamming group we have brought in…

Rules from Space Hulk 1st Addition
Rules from Space Hulk 2nd Addition
Rules from Space Hulk 3rd Addition
Rules from Space Hulk “Deathwing”
Rules from Space Hulk “Genestealers”
Rules for using Marines in Power Amour (White Dwarf issue)

Using all published rules (so don’t have to reinvent the wheel) with minor changes to the to kill the target numbers / rules to bring them up to date…
You get….
• Marines with Terminator amour and all there range weapons / close assault weapons / psyche powers
• Marines in Power Amour and all there range weapons & close assault weapons
• Pure strain Genestealers (0 to 6 blips)
• Hybrids armed with ranged & close assault weapons plus psyche powers

Note: We felt that bring in other races or the Tyranids would be too much and not feel like a Space Hulk, although there’s nothing wrong with trying to do that, but that is where it starts to get complicated, so using the already invented wheel makes it easer to convert a few to kill numbers than a whole rule set!

Its your game so play it like you want!

wilsongrahams
22-12-2010, 19:24
Touche, you make a good point that genestealers are a relative new foe. Which would make experience in combat operations rare against them.

I was unfortunate that I was never able to play the PC version of the game. Although I have recently watch videos on youtube and it looks fun and very challenging. I did however play a game called Chaos Gate which was a move and shoot points system game. It was a really outstanding game largely due to the terrific 40k defining soundtrack.

I see what you mean about Terminator vs terminator games. Although I feel like Chaos Terminators would be the easiest conversion of the game. You would only have to decide how to reflect the difference of the Reaper-AutoCannon, and the Assault Cannon. Throw in a Sorcerer to replace the Librarian and youre good to go!

I lost my copy of chaos gate on the motorway due to a broken zip on my bag whilst riding a motorbike... :-(

As for swapping the BA for chaos terminators - that is a good idea and one that is the way I would personally do it - I've been contemplating doing it myself just for the chance to paint some models that I don't have or will need an army for to use.

The Reaper can simply be 2 dice needing a 4+, and have same 10 ammo and a reload as an assault cannon. Without the sustained fire of the assault cannon it means it is less effective on subsequent shots but just as deadly with one burst per target averaging one kill per first shot as he assault cannon does (50% x 2 is 100, so is 33% x 3. The AC goes up to 150% chance on a second shot). The only time you will notice a difference is shooting at the Broodlord, and the fact that it won't explode so you can trust it more.

Combi weapons are easy to do too - use the 1st ed rules for the most part.

kruppo
11-01-2011, 11:48
Hi,

I have been experimenting with new rules for the last years.
The challenge is not to push the system out of balance.

I personally found it quite refreshing to introduce the following opponents:

Hormagants (4 AP, shooters)
Termagants (6 AP, close quarters 2 dice, Leaping rule)
Hybrids (4 AP, close quarters 1 die)

I use the imperial guard with lasguns and heavy weapon in some scenarios. Nimble but easy to chew ;)

I also introduced security turrets (automatic MG considered in Overwatch and with limited ammunition, two dice hits on 5+) that can be transported and set up to secure corridors.

The next custom rule to test will be use of force fields. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Cheers
Carlo

moradibe
27-01-2011, 20:50
This is moradibe and have just joined the war. Been on and off with space hulk for about 20years have got new apprentice [son] and have made him a large 3D board with flashing lights, fans, moving platforms and evan eletric sliding door. maybe this is how you improve a cool game.

BigRob
27-01-2011, 22:15
This is moradibe and have just joined the war. Been on and off with space hulk for about 20years have got new apprentice [son] and have made him a large 3D board with flashing lights, fans, moving platforms and evan eletric sliding door. maybe this is how you improve a cool game.

Welcome to Warseer :)

But you can't say something like that without the might of pictures! (and later, an in dpeth explanation of how you produced the awesomeness!).

sulla
28-01-2011, 20:16
My change/addition to space hulk would be;
1) to have rules to replace the 'stealers with daemons and replace the termis with grey knight termies.
2)Rules for replacing the termies with a deathwatch killteam.

much2much
08-02-2011, 12:18
Playtest the missions. Revise them so they are somewhat close and you don't have stalemate situations.