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Brandir
19-05-2005, 07:32
After the debacle that was Warhammer Online, it seems that GW is once again attempting to enter the online RPGing business.

Mythic Entertainment have secured the exclusive rights to develop a MMORPG set in the Warhammer World.

This news was on gaming report's web site:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=17144

On 21 Jun 04 GW cancelled Warhammer Online but the press release announcing this did state that:

We will be winding down the project immediately, although a small, specialised team will continue to examine whether online games remain a serious business opportunity for Games Workshop.

Comments?

rkunisch
19-05-2005, 08:46
I think GW has choosen a better partner this time, but only time will tell. I am certainly more then willing to buy into Online Warhammer. :D

I would be interested in details, if GW puts again money into the deal or just licenses their IP.

Have fun,

Rolf.

Eldacar
19-05-2005, 09:38
Well, if it turns out all right, then I'll be playing it. However, I seriously hope they produce something better than Warhammer Online.

Brandir
19-05-2005, 09:41
I believe that this time GW have licenced the intellectual propertyrights and are not providing any funding to Mythic.

Minister
19-05-2005, 12:45
The main problem? World of Warcraft has almost the exact same market. They will be oin one-on-one competition with an entrenched opposition, and relying on the IP big guns alone will not breach the lines.

Brandir
19-05-2005, 13:10
Minister, you could be right. However, the Warhammer world does have quite a big following and I'm sure GW will publicise this new online effort via WD, subsidiafries such as Sabretooth and their web site. But by licencing rather than developing this online game, GW will remove the risk of wasting even more money on online ventures.

Xymn
19-05-2005, 13:28
A planetside type Warhammer game would be awesome.

Drabant
19-05-2005, 14:35
A planetside type Warhammer game would be awesome.

I've been thinking that as well, but more as a 40k game.

RvR, is that Realm vs. Realm? Something like DAOC? Because I have a hard time seeing WOW as a serious anything vs. anything game. Besides, a Warhammer MMORPG would hopefully be more serious and sinister than WOW.

Sgt John Keel
19-05-2005, 14:54
Besides, a Warhammer MMORPG would hopefully be more serious and sinister than WOW.

That's what I'm hoping for. I sincerely hope they use a realistic style.

One thing I've never seen in a MMORPG is full scale battles which allow for the forming of regiments.

Sign me up for the High Elves.

/Adrian

cmdrnarrain
19-05-2005, 15:38
I can hardly wait for the price increase justified by another failed venture.

Brandir
19-05-2005, 15:48
I can hardly wait for the price increase justified by another failed venture.

But the way I read this press release is that GW are not investing any money into the project. It appears to me that GW can't loose - getting paid a licence fee and that other company takes onthe risk of the game succeeding/failing.

cmdrnarrain
19-05-2005, 17:50
"If" they are licencing their themes I'm all for it. Additional exposure is good for the hobby.

However, the current cabal of leadership at GW isn't known for making the wisest business deals.

Simple

Additional exposure is good, $60 terminators is bad.

NetGuru
19-05-2005, 17:53
If someone hands Mythic a copy of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book and told them that it is to form the basis of the MMORPG i would be the happist camper on site! :)

But thinking about this, how can they make it any different to how Climax made it, because even if Climax's game was a few art mock ups it had the atmosphere of Warhammer nailed. And so if Mythic were to follow the style could Climax complain?

Who knows, but fingers crossed it turns out to be a cracking MMORPG...

Brandir
19-05-2005, 17:57
That is an interesting point about WFRP. Perhaps they will use the new version as a basis for characters?

NetGuru
19-05-2005, 18:08
Well there is enough classes, items, monsters and the like for WRFP v2 to be easily made into a game. Especially when it comes to character creation....

Okay i admit it, i just wanna be a Dwarf Trollslayer! :D

Sgt John Keel
19-05-2005, 18:12
That is an interesting point about WFRP. Perhaps they will use the new version as a basis for characters?

I hope not. IIRC, there's no Ulthuan Elves in it.

/Adrian

Brandir
19-05-2005, 18:16
There are Elves in WFRP - but Empire born ones. Hopefully a supplement will eventually detail Ulthuan - but I suspect that is some years away.

Any new Warhammer Online would undoubtedly start in the Empire and slowly expand from there, if it is successful.

Morskittar
19-05-2005, 18:58
To succeed in the face of WoW's ultimate bubblegum-pop accessibility, a Warhammer game would really need to differentiate itself.

What if they were to focus on something like Mordheim? Rather than the WoW-style 'wander around and kill things' gameplay, or the upcoming Battlefields, PvP and single-person play could revolve around gangs of players attempting to accumulate wyrdstone, set up bases inside the city, and engage in stealth or skirmish-based fights for items.

This would be, I think, sufficiently different from WoW's gameplay focus to help a WH game stand out (especially to the general public), and allow most armies to be represented.

Although, the original Warhammer Online concept was cool as well.

Drabant
19-05-2005, 19:30
They could still use the WFRP system, or a derivation of it, and have Ulthuan elves in it. They would probably change the system a bit to fit a MMORPG better. If my interpretation of RvR as Realm vs. Realm is correct, I doubt characters will be limited to those that are in WHRP. Any guess on how many "Races" there will be? They would hardly add them all.

I like the Mordheim idea. Anyway, I believe it will be more like a traditional MMORPG than I really would like.

(There definitly is a market for more MMORPGs, but most of the games that are out are really similar. Who knows, maybe we will (finally) see something interesting on the MMORPG market here)

Ethereal Alpaca
19-05-2005, 19:44
I've been thinking that as well, but more as a 40k game.

RvR, is that Realm vs. Realm? Something like DAOC? Because I have a hard time seeing WOW as a serious anything vs. anything game. Besides, a Warhammer MMORPG would hopefully be more serious and sinister than WOW.

Yeah, the lack of seriousness in WoW is pretty much the main turn off for me.

I can't get rid of the feeling that this will go the way of Warhammer Online again. Though I actually have some hope for this. GW seems to have chosen a good partner for them in this little venture.

RvR? Maybe they are planning on doing the whole warhammer world? Every race, all against eachother. Of course, the only problem with that would be that small, elite armies, like chaos or ogres, would have a large number of players, taking away their only real disadvantages.

I think that I, personally, would be more interested in a WFRP style game, as WO was originally intended to be.

Sgt John Keel
19-05-2005, 20:10
If they include Ulthuan Elves, I hope one could take upon oneself the different warrior aspects, such as the silent warrior monks of Asuryan, or the Swordmaster Mages of the White Towers. A fighting wizard would be interesting to play.

None of this I am a Troll Rogue with the skills fishing and tanning. Oh. How characterful. :rolleyes:

/Adrian

Brandir
19-05-2005, 21:22
The problem with setting a MMORPG in an already realised world is that people know something is 'missing'. By that I mean that the starting game will not cover the whole of the Warhammer World from the start. Just like WFRP version 2, this new online game will start in a small part of the world and slowly expand over the years. So lots of people may be put off if they cannot play, say, an Elf from Ulthuan immediately. Lots of people may think that it is boring playing only a human/elf/dwarf/hobbit from the Empire.

Olith
20-05-2005, 01:33
It was obvious this was comming at some point in the near future. World of Warcraft is bringing in over $20m a month for Blizzard. GW will be seeing that and thinking "we can have some of that pie". I still think it's a mistake regardless of who does it. There are a bunch of MMORPGs out there that arent doing wonderful. The other major licensed games realeased so far, Star Wars Galaxies and The Matrix (that I can think of), aren't really anything like experiencing the licenses they are based upon. Because warhammer is so diverse in it's fan base's interest in the various aspects of the warhammer world and the fact this will be based in such a small slice I just think alot of people will get bored very quickly.

They will really have to revolutionalize to get something really outstanding, and I just can't see that happening. Also the base of people that are going to play fantasy MMORPGS, while increasing, is limited. Other games are going to come in such as D&D online and LoTR as well as a bunch of others, then add in all the other popular ones that are out already, and really stretch the customer base for these types of games. Personally I think they would have been better using something like Necromunda as a basis for an online game or do something very different with the warhammer world (unlikely) in bringing it to an online rpg.

One thing I always saw as a problem with the old design was that combat was a very small part. For nearly all Warhammer fans combat is what it is all about. Bloodthirsty, heroic battles. Sure it's fun to play a rat catcher or whatever and live in a fantasy world but that can get really boring, really quick. They could make a really good game by utilizing aspects still missing from online games but it'll be just another fantasy MMORPG in a generation of games that are really all the same.

axels15
20-05-2005, 02:24
i don't know, i haven't read all the posts, and i know its very early for it, but how large do you think they will make it? Will it be only empire, with a realm as good, and one as chaos, etc? Or will it be empire, brettonia, Wastelands, sylvania, etc? What races? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!! I CAN'T CONTAIN MYSELF, FORGIVE ME. :eek:

axels15
20-05-2005, 02:26
One thing I always saw as a problem with the old design was that combat was a very small part. For nearly all Warhammer fans combat is what it is all about. Bloodthirsty, heroic battles. Sure it's fun to play a rat catcher or whatever and live in a fantasy world but that can get really boring, really quick. They could make a really good game by utilizing aspects still missing from online games but it'll be just another fantasy MMORPG in a generation of games that are really all the same.


Thats probably why this one will be a RVR instead. More PvP action and more combat than rpg.
although, now that i think about it, i see your point

twisted_mentat
20-05-2005, 03:43
Ugh i hate PvP...my idea of fun is not being killed by someone who does nothing but sit around and play, and then hunt down people weaker than themselves...

But i like the idea of the Realm Vs Realm...You would choose what nation you would like to be from, and that would dictacte your class choices and such.

If you're from the Empire, you could be an Engineer, and such....

And, Please...don't feed the trolls...

Morskittar
20-05-2005, 04:38
It was obvious this was comming at some point in the near future. World of Warcraft is bringing in over $20m a month for Blizzard. GW will be seeing that and thinking "we can have some of that pie".

GW has been attempting an online game since well before WoW was released; it was just put on hold due to Climax' shenanigans.


They will really have to revolutionalize to get something really outstanding, and I just can't see that happening. Also the base of people that are going to play fantasy MMORPGS, while increasing, is limited. Other games are going to come in such as D&D online and LoTR as well as a bunch of others, then add in all the other popular ones that are out already, and really stretch the customer base for these types of games. Personally I think they would have been better using something like Necromunda as a basis for an online game or do something very different with the warhammer world (unlikely) in bringing it to an online rpg.

And for someone who might be interested in a Fantasy MMORPG and doesn't want to deal with the bubblegum-pop Disney fantasy represented in WoW or D&D? I do agree, though that something different has a better chance at at least niche success, if not actual mass-market appeal. Necromunda or Mordheim being ideal. Who wouldn't want to run around in a digital gang with their friends?


One thing I always saw as a problem with the old design was that combat was a very small part. For nearly all Warhammer fans combat is what it is all about. Bloodthirsty, heroic battles. Sure it's fun to play a rat catcher or whatever and live in a fantasy world but that can get really boring, really quick. They could make a really good game by utilizing aspects still missing from online games but it'll be just another fantasy MMORPG in a generation of games that are really all the same.

Are you aware that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay was just re-released with a fair measure of anticipation and acclaim? Don't discount the legion of Warhammer fans that could care less about Pegasus Knights and love all the aspects of the world that don't involve 'heroic' armies.

Cypher
20-05-2005, 06:14
The problem with setting a MMORPG in an already realised world is that people know something is 'missing'. By that I mean that the starting game will not cover the whole of the Warhammer World from the start. Just like WFRP version 2, this new online game will start in a small part of the world and slowly expand over the years. So lots of people may be put off if they cannot play, say, an Elf from Ulthuan immediately. Lots of people may think that it is boring playing only a human/elf/dwarf/hobbit from the Empire.

But who says you have to. Let's say I play an Elf: what's to stop me focussing my expertise on the use of a two-handed sword and saying that Im training to become a Swordmaster of Hoeth? Or picking up a crossbow and some dark armour and calling myself a Dark Elf. An elf living in the Empire is going to look different from one from the Elven lands because the equipment available is human-made, but that doesnt change who they are.

Brandir
20-05-2005, 07:13
Mr Kirby claims that there are 750,000 regular players of WHFB/WH40K/LOTR/Specialist Games around the world.

That is quite a big market.

But how many of us actually play online games? Niot me, but many of my gaming colleagues do. Even 10% would equate to 75,000 gamers paying up to 10 a month to play. Not a bad return.

Flashheart
20-05-2005, 08:29
I think that right now is a very dangerous time to enter the mmorgp market as long as WoW is so hyped .. they are "stealing" gamers from all the other games.

Arnizipal
20-05-2005, 10:57
The game is due for 2007. By that time the hype of WoW should somewhat over.

Tastyfish
20-05-2005, 11:34
Infact it might even work in their favour - this is the next gen WoW but with a background thats actually...well, good.

Morskittar
20-05-2005, 15:52
Indeed... if it had solid large-scale PvP all the hardcore WoW people, in theory, will have been long burnt out by 2007, barring some massive re-working of their game down the line.

'Course, I don't know if anyone actually wants to play with those people. Especially something with crunchy roleplaying potential like a Warhammer MMORPG.

Olith
20-05-2005, 21:35
Are you aware that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay was just re-released with a fair measure of anticipation and acclaim? Don't discount the legion of Warhammer fans that could care less about Pegasus Knights and love all the aspects of the world that don't involve 'heroic' armies.

This was more of what the original idea was geared towards as far as I could see. It'll probably end up similar to the other fantasy mmorpgs which would be a shame as it could have been something very different, though I'm sure it'll be somewhat successful. I don't see them gambling on innovation though as it is a very unstable market to be getting into. Innovation in the industry as a whole for gameplay isn't there in leaps and bounds at the moment due to large development costs.

Morskittar
20-05-2005, 22:10
I don't see them gambling on innovation though as it is a very unstable market to be getting into. Innovation in the industry as a whole for gameplay isn't there in leaps and bounds at the moment due to large development costs.

That's a really good point, the current market leader is built off of clean execution of the usual format. Rather like movies, innovation is too financially risky to be induldged in.

Mythic does seem to be fairly experienced in the small-scale niche game, however. If they don't try to set subscriber goals too high, and instead prefer something interesting and manageable, we might get a solid and innovative game.

A lot of 'ifs' there.