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Zestyfork
30-12-2009, 09:47
Hey People I have just started empire and was going for the large gunline tactic full of crossbowmen and handgunners, with spearmen supporting 1 flank with a unit of outriders at the other end. Has anyone tried it before??? does it work well??? Also I was also wondering what empire players like better Crossbowmen or handgunners???

twistinthunder
30-12-2009, 10:04
see here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1457

Condottiere
30-12-2009, 10:06
It's usually a more balanced solution to have one of each - the handgunners to take care of armoured units and the crossbows to hit units at a distance.

Lordsaradain
30-12-2009, 10:06
I prefer handgunners. Sure their reach is 6" shorter, but the extra -1 against armour makes them worth it.

Brother Drakist
30-12-2009, 13:37
I prefer handgunners. Sure their reach is 6" shorter, but the extra -1 against armour makes them worth it.

I agree. However, I have rarely used crossbows. The armor piercing is just too important when every new army seems to have 2+/3+ troops running around.

Commodus Leitdorf
30-12-2009, 13:43
I use one of both. The handgunners get put down opposite my opponents knights to make them think twice about trying to roll up my flank. My crossbowmen deployment depends on my opponent. The 30" range means I can shoot first turn unlike my gunners. So they usually are deployed opposite soft targets (Like fast cav or other light shooting units).

Each is useful as they both have different roles. I couldn't decide which was better so I use one of each! Crossbowmen have the range, handgunners have the hitting power. Just use them in those roles and they are both good.

Dark_Knight
30-12-2009, 14:12
I am playing with the idea of using a unit of each next to each other so that no one uses longbows from a distance against me without suffering in return. Plus the handgunners can really be useful against armored targets so you might have to direct fire against an advancing enemy while the crossbowmen take care of the nasty elven skirmishers.

theunwantedbeing
30-12-2009, 14:14
I agree. However, I have rarely used crossbows. The armor piercing is just too important when every new army seems to have 2+/3+ troops running around.

Says the empire player with his cheap 1+ save core cavalry.

Dark elves, 2+ knights 3+ chariot. Low save everything else.
High elves, 2+ knights, 4+ chariot. Low save everything else.
Chaos, 1+ knights, 3+ warriors/chariots. Low save everything else.
Vampires, 2+ knights. Low save everything else.
Daemons, Low save everything.
Skaven, Low save everything.

The crossbow has an extra 6" of range, this can be incredibly useful.
Plus as crossbows arent guns as such, then your opponent feels less like they are facing a gunline and so is going to be less bothered about being gunned down by your.

So crossbows are the better of the 2 choices for a fun game for your opponent. What you lose in hitting power is more than made up for with that extra range in my opinion.

Brother Drakist
30-12-2009, 14:30
Says the empire player with his cheap 1+ save core cavalry.

Dark elves, 2+ knights 3+ chariot. Low save everything else.
High elves, 2+ knights, 4+ chariot. Low save everything else.
Chaos, 1+ knights, 3+ warriors/chariots. Low save everything else.
Vampires, 2+ knights. Low save everything else.
Daemons, Low save everything.
Skaven, Low save everything.

The crossbow has an extra 6" of range, this can be incredibly useful.
Plus as crossbows arent guns as such, then your opponent feels less like they are facing a gunline and so is going to be less bothered about being gunned down by your.

So crossbows are the better of the 2 choices for a fun game for your opponent. What you lose in hitting power is more than made up for with that extra range in my opinion.

I thought Lizardmen had some good saves as well. I recall it being 2+ or 3+ last time I played them. I guess having the armor piercing just made them feel like more of threat in my opinion as I ususally find the troops with the better armor saves cause me the most problems. Handguns never seemed less fun to me as I enjoy making the musket sounds when I roll to hit........wait a sec did I just type that? :shifty:

Stumpy
30-12-2009, 15:29
First thing, gunline is not a tactic. Don't call it that. The purpose of it is to skip tactics and go straight to killing.
Second, balanced empire armies are stronger, if you use them reasonably at least.
And finally onto shooters... I use xbows when I use them at all (I use a detachment of 6 xbows at 2500 points). Heavy armour you can kill with cannons or combat res, what your guns need to do is kill stuff you can't outmanouver or can't catch. Those things generally are a long way away without much armour, thus I prefer xbows. Handguns work too obviously, most of the time it doesn't make much difference.

Baaltharus
30-12-2009, 15:35
Crossbows in my opinion are the better choice. Potentially an extra round of shooting vs the enemy can be even more effective than an additonal -1 off their save. Additionally you get more hits due to a longer 'short range'.

Skyth
30-12-2009, 16:11
I use a unit of Handgunners with a Hochland (Which is the main reason to take handgunners)...I also run 2 5 man Crossbow detachments.

Lord Khabal
30-12-2009, 16:30
I believe the correct answer is: It depends on the opponent army!

Pavic
30-12-2009, 16:30
I thought Lizardmen had some good saves as well. I recall it being 2+ or 3+ last time I played them.

Saurus Warriors 4+
Temple Guard 3+
Saurus Cavalry 2+

Condottiere
30-12-2009, 16:36
First thing, gunline is not a tactic. Don't call it that. The purpose of it is to skip tactics and go straight to killing.
Second, balanced empire armies are stronger, if you use them reasonably at least.
And finally onto shooters... I use xbows when I use them at all (I use a detachment of 6 xbows at 2500 points). Heavy armour you can kill with cannons or combat res, what your guns need to do is kill stuff you can't outmanouver or can't catch. Those things generally are a long way away without much armour, thus I prefer xbows. Handguns work too obviously, most of the time it doesn't make much difference.Balanced armies are stronger, if they have to face a variety of enemies, terrains and environments, not just an open field.

gorenut
30-12-2009, 16:38
I think Crossbowmen are overall the better bet. The potential for an extra round of shooting I think is more beneficial than armor piercing rounds. Ideally, I'd take one of each, but if I were to take handgunners, as another poster has said, I'd take a long rifle too.

RGB
30-12-2009, 16:40
Crossbows all the way, with crossbow detachments.

You only really want HG for the Hochland, if you're bringing one. Otherwise, the extra range makes all the difference in the world.

The Red Scourge
30-12-2009, 17:25
The day you're facing a gunline with crossbows, those handgunners will feel awfully out of place ;)

Condottiere
30-12-2009, 17:50
Range trumps fire-power.

Jind_Singh
30-12-2009, 18:26
Tsk, Tsk - haven't you heard? Have your cake AND eat it!!!
I typically run (in a 2250 point game) at least 10 Crossbowmen with 2 5 mand Handgunner detachments. Sometimes I'll include another set of 20 depending on my mood.
You need both - Handgunners are great for knocking out armoured opponents but your average foot troop comes with sheild/light armour so the added range of crossbows is tremendous - allows you to engage from Turn 1 (especially if you won 1st turn as all the Handgunners are out of range!).
Normally in an Empire list 10 Handgunners, 10 Crossbowmen, and 5-7 Outriders will give you all the missle firepower you crave, doesn't sink a lot of points, and you'll be able to field all the other great units that the Empire has to offer.
Hope this helps!