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View Full Version : Would you rank Ravenwing below Necrons?



Red Beard
30-12-2009, 21:49
My favorite army is Deathwing. After playing them for a while I wanted to build and play a challenging army. Everyone said Necrons are horrible and should be shelved until the new Codex comes out. Instead I built one and have had much success with it. I am getting the urge to pick up a Ravenwing army. After looking at the army and toying with some army lists, it seems that I would be better off saving my money. I can build a all bike army using the Space Marine codex and could field more options, more models and although I wont be fearless, I think that is an advantage. The reason being is if I lose combat I wont have to stick around and take wounds on my already low model count army.

What is your thoughts? Keep building up my Necron force or try Ravenwing?

Shadowfax
30-12-2009, 21:59
You mean pure Ravenwing?

Because the so-called "doublewing" combination of scouting teleport homer Ravenwing bikes and 1st turn deepstriking Deathwing termies is one of the best tools in the DA codex, if you're willing to try it. Sounds like you already have the Deathwing assets to do so. The Master of the Ravenwing (landspeeder version) is also a very strong unit.

I wouldn't want to use a pure RW list, though. Bikes just aren't good enough to serve as the core of an army.

Red Beard
30-12-2009, 22:02
You mean pure Ravenwing?

Because the so-called "doublewing" combination of scouting teleport homer Ravenwing bikes and 1st turn deepstriking Deathwing termies is one of the best tools in the DA codex, if you're willing to try it. Sounds like you already have the Deathwing assets to do so. The Master of the Ravenwing (landspeeder version) is also a very strong unit.

I wouldn't want to use a pure RW list, though. Bikes just aren't good enough to serve as the core of an army.

I was talking about "pure" ravenwing. I am not a big fan of double-wing.

LonelyPath
30-12-2009, 23:10
Pure Ravenwing are not a opowerful army, but they are characterful and fun to play with. You will not win every game and will face an uphill battle against the stronger lists out there. However, they are not an auto-lose list.

Just remember, you get scoring land speeders with the attack squadrons and Sammael himself is a real hard nut to crack when taken in his land speeder (my preferred mode to field him) with AV 14 on front and sides, BS5 and twin-linked heavy bolters and assault cannons.

If used right a RW force can give the enemy a right merry chase around the battlefield.

WinglessVT2
30-12-2009, 23:16
Ravenwing is much, much better than necrons, if only for the simple facts that their troops are mobile, don't go poof when you lose assaults, and have support weapons.

The Ginger Ninja
30-12-2009, 23:22
Everyone said Necrons are horrible and should be shelved until the new Codex comes out.
its not just necrons, most old armies are horrible, and with all the old codexes there is a few units that you can spam that then become OP eg current nid codex carnifex spam

bigcheese76
31-12-2009, 00:58
I would try Ravenwing. Necrons may seem nice now as you plan out your army, but after a while of just painting warriors and having to employ the same tactics every game you will probably get bored. Another advantage to Ravenwing is the low model count which means that you can spend more time painting each model and so paint to a higher standard.

S00N3R FR3AK
31-12-2009, 02:02
Pure Ravenwing are not a opowerful army, but they are characterful and fun to play with. You will not win every game and will face an uphill battle against the stronger lists out there. However, they are not an auto-lose list.

Just remember, you get scoring land speeders with the attack squadrons and Sammael himself is a real hard nut to crack when taken in his land speeder (my preferred mode to field him) with AV 14 on front and sides, BS5 and twin-linked heavy bolters and assault cannons.

If used right a RW force can give the enemy a right merry chase around the battlefield.

Are landspeeders really scoring? Everyone at my GW says even if they are in a troop unit they are vehicles and no not score.

Also I would say Daemonhunters would be a much tougher army. I have found that my Ravenwing can smash into armies that don't move because I can outflank dump a lot of shots then assault. They are not a bad army.

Arvendragon
31-12-2009, 02:35
In the rulebook, all vehicles are not scoring.

And I'd say that Daemonhunters are quite effective. Especially the 7-Raider 'Ard Boyz list.

Lord Cook
31-12-2009, 02:50
No, I would rank Ravenwing above Necrons. If only because of scoring Land Speeders and not being screwed over by combat resolution.


In the rulebook, all vehicles are not scoring.

The Codex always overrides the rulebook. The DA codex specifically says they are scoring. Therefore they are.

The Apathetic Despot
31-12-2009, 03:30
The Codex always overrides the rulebook. The DA codex specifically says they are scoring. Therefore they are.

Quite right. And for that mtter the rulebook doesn't actually say vehicles can't be scoring units, it simply doesn't make them scoring automatically. The two aren't even technically in conflict, it's analagous to me saying "Firewarriors and Tactical Marines are scoring units", nothing I've said implies that guardsmen aren't scoring even though they aren't on the list. That cuts both ways, however, since by the same token the codex prohibits Ravenwing bikes from turbo-boosting in their scout move if memory serves.

EmperorEternalXIX
31-12-2009, 03:36
I disagree about the speeders. If a vehicle is not a scoring unit...and it's a vehicle...the rulebook covers it. Unless the DA dex has a sentence that flat out says, "These Land Speeders are scoring units even though they are vehicles" then yeah, sure. But just saying "these Land Speeders come from a troop choice" doesn't cut it.

After all, by that logic, every Rhino in the game is scoring.

Lord Cook
31-12-2009, 03:36
That cuts both ways, however, since by the same token the codex prohibits Ravenwing bikes from turbo-boosting in their scout move if memory serves.

Really? Hmm, I'll have to remember that one.

Awesome avatar by the way. ;)

pringles978
31-12-2009, 03:37
ive used my marine bikers as ravenwing once or twice, and while the angels are weaker than vanilla marines, they are not quite necron bad. plenty of scoring units, scout moves to get closer to gunlines and the av14 speeder is nice.

doublewing is the way forward im afraid...

starlight
31-12-2009, 03:40
Actually no...

Specific overrides General. Usually the general rules are in the Rulebook and the specific ones are in the Codex...*however* there are examples of the Rulebook having more specific rules than some Codecies.

As I recall, it was the 4th Ed book that prohibited Vehicles from Scoring because Scoring units could come from any FOC Slot, whereas that was eliminated from 5th Ed because no mainstream army had Vehicles as Troops, baring Transports.

Such as may be the case, unless the 5th Ed book specifically bars Vehicles from Scoring in a way that applies to Ravenwing Landspeeders taken as part of a Troops choice, the specific rule in C: DA means that all of the components of a Ravenwing Attack Squadron count as Scoring.

However, if you want that rule, then you have to take all of the old rules (Storm Shields, Smoke Launchers, Turbo-Boost, etc) as well...

Necrotyr18
31-12-2009, 03:59
You do know that I am a Necron player that has only lost I'd say 3 to 4 games in the last few months and I play at least 2 times a week. Remember it's not the army it's the player.

Red Beard
31-12-2009, 06:19
You do know that I am a Necron player that has only lost I'd say 3 to 4 games in the last few months and I play at least 2 times a week. Remember it's not the army it's the player.

I agree. That is why I asked how people ranked Ravenwing against Necrons. It seems that a couple of posts want me to build Ravenwing instead of Necrons. That is not what I am looking for. I already play Necrons. I love Necrons. I just wanted to pick up another challenging army and do well with them. I think rather than do that I am just going to keep expanding my Necrons for the time being. I may wait on a new Dark Angel codex before I start a Ravenwing. Or I may give them a go later as doublewing. (I am a Deathwing player too)

Netfreakk
31-12-2009, 06:27
I disagree about the speeders. If a vehicle is not a scoring unit...and it's a vehicle...the rulebook covers it. Unless the DA dex has a sentence that flat out says, "These Land Speeders are scoring units even though they are vehicles" then yeah, sure. But just saying "these Land Speeders come from a troop choice" doesn't cut it.

After all, by that logic, every Rhino in the game is scoring.

It does specifically state that the landspeeders bought into the troop choice slot are scoring, specifically in a box just to state that attack bikes and landspeeders are scoring. So, they are scoring when bought with the bikes.


Back on topic:

IMO a Pure ravenwing force is not strong by any means. They lack models, any sort of good CC, can't get objectives placed on 3rd level ruins unless you use your landspeeder, and aren't that great in shooting.

edit*

Oh I forgot, my favorite to play against, if you use any type of river you can't turbo-boost when going over difficult terrain and thus will die.