View Full Version : Return to Warhammer

31-12-2009, 02:12
I'm pretty much a 40k gamer first and foremost and I havn't played Fantasy since the early days of 6th edition (yes that long ago, although I do still miss the silliness of Herohammer) but recently I've been feeling the urge to start up Fantasy again as I've completed my 40k armies and don't really have the desire to start another atm.

Anyways why am I posting on here you say? I was wondering if anyone could fill me in on how differently the game plays since 6th ed these days and secondly I'm kinda torn between starting a Dark Elf army or Lizardman army, a far cry from the Orcs and Gobbos I used to play back in the day. So I was wondering if anyone could advise me on the strengths/weaknesses of these armies and how they play?

Cheers for your time!

01-01-2010, 01:02
Haven't played with the new Lizards, but have played against them a few times.

DEs are (IMO) one of the hardest armies in the game- that is, for their points cost and the way they work together, you can create an army list that is absolute filth. Against a lot (if not most) of opponents of equal skill level, you will have an advantage before you even deploy a model. However, DEs are not Daemons- you can create a list that will still be competative but not beardy.

Lizards seem to be slightly below DEs in terms of power level- I've lost to good Lizards players (it should at this point be pointed out that I am a pretty poor player), but have demolished bad ones. Especially when they do stupid things like charge my hydra with their Engine of the Gods...

DEs tend to be very fragile (with some exceptions)- with just T3, and little armour on the majority of their units, they will no stand up to a beating. However, DEs more than make up for this in terms of manouverability, and their shooting/magic phases. Repeater Xbows are (again, just IMO) some of the best core infantry in the game for their points. The Power of Darkness spell can allow DEs to throw around a horrific amount of spells for the points you invest.

My comparison of the two races (once more, this is just what I think, and I am frequently wrong) is this: Lizards are stronger, tougher, cold-blooded and have better magic. But DEs have better shooting, are more manouverable and can still pack a punch in most phases without having to invest too many points ad are in general a stronger army book.

Plus, have a look at some of the Black Guard or Executioner models- how cool are they!?

01-01-2010, 03:44
Hey, welcome back to Warhammer. The game plays by and large the same as it did in the 6th edition. If you could play the 6th, you can play the 7th, you need only play a few games with someone who has more experience and you'll be just fine.

Lizardmen: An extremely powerful, mostly combat army. Of your two choices Lizardmen are probably the weaker, but thats only because of how disgustingly powerful Dark Elves are right now.

You can still take a very powerful mixed army, with devastating Magic, a little bit of shooting, cavalry, skirmishers (skinks). So you can bleed down your opponent with Magic for the first few turns (it should be noted Lizardmen can have some AMAZING casters if you set your army that way.)

It doesn't all go well though, you will struggle against Dwarfs sometimes, especially if he has an Organ Gun to take on your Skinks which will be nightmarish for you. Similarly armies like Dark Elves and Vampire Counts who can match you in the Magic phase will give you a very hard time unless you focussed on Magic totally and neglected combat heroes.

A tooled up Slann, is one of the most unpleasent things I have ever fought against, and its not an experience I'd care to repeat. They rain magical death down on your army for pretty much the entire game and its very hard to stop them once they get started.

You can still butcher people with Lizardmen, but Magic armies or Shooting armies CAN give you hard-won victories, by no means impossible (except maybe against a solo Khorne Daemons army).

Dark Elves: This army can do pretty much everything. They can have EXTREMELY good Magic. They can hold their own in the Shooting phase with repeater crossbows and Reaper Bolt Throwers. There are some stupid unit combinations that give you an edge in combat. Give a unit of Black Guard the Banner of Hag Graef (Always Strikes First) and you'll see what I mean.

The new Dark Elves are by far one of the best armies, they're like the previous version of them on steroids. They can powerhouse through almost anything in a few turns and Eternal Hatred is NOT to be underestimated. You can break many enemies quite easily on the first round of combat.

Weaknesses? Most of your army is T3, a well rounded gunline will blast you to pieces if you aren't careful. If you use your troops well, you can triumph over pretty much anybody.

Good luck, no matter who you choose.

01-01-2010, 03:45
mmm, thats a crazy choice to make - both are just to good!
Dark Elves are offically harder in the rankings, only Deamons and Vampires can stand with them - lizardmen however can take all 3 of them on - so dont be worried!

Both can do combat, can magic, can move fast - but dark elves win shooting, but lizards can take bigger beasties!

Lizardmen have more options to build lists, dark elves dont have as many builds.

Both look great, both are great to paint, I think long-term lizardmen offer longer lasting joy - they can take skink armies, saurus armies, led by differnt lord choices, great magic options, they can take fliers, warmachines - crazy times.

I think also they are cheaper to buy as a lot of the range is plastic, the skinks, saurus, cold ones, stegadons, were as the dark elves do have plastic models but the ones you need are all metal! (Executioners, black gaurd, etc, etc).

Either way you need to give us more feedback so we can better advise!

01-01-2010, 22:21
I've never played with Dark Elves, so can not comment on them from a collectors viewpoint. I have played against them, and they are (IMHO) the nastiest army in the game if your opponent is an out and out win at all costs type of player.

As for Lizards. Well, I love them to bits. You can do all kinds of interesting army builds and, again IMHO, there is no single "right" list for competitive games....Stegadon/Carnoasur horde, Temple Guard + Slaan Magic Spam Bunker, etc. All have their own valid merits.

Personally I love Skinks and take loads of them in my list; Not the best troops in the game, but definately effective if used well.

In terms of power-ranking, I would put Lizards on an equal level to High Elves as whilst both are not as powerful as "The Big 3" of Daemons, Vampire and Dark Elves, can more than compete with them. I have beaten Daemons and Vampires with my Lizards and High Elves because you can kill their magic and thus render their biggest advantage null and void. Not had any luck against Dark Elves yet, though!

02-01-2010, 02:46
well lets get this out of the way, if you play DE you probably (70-80%) will get at least one person complaining about lameness etc... that being said I think the dark elves look awesome go with them