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View Full Version : New Raveners are amazing



squeekenator
03-01-2010, 11:03
I've played a couple of games with the new Tyranid codex, and one thing that has struck me is how brutal the new Raveners are against pretty much anything. They have a potential 24" charge range, and each one gets 5 WS5 S4 attacks with re-rolls to hit on the charge. With those stats, you don't need rending claws to rip through MEQ, so you can keep them at the basic 30pts, but the 5pt spinefists are a damn good buy too. They're cheap, so it doesn't matter too much if you can't shoot because you ran, and for that bargain price you get 4 S3 AP5 twin-linked shots on top of their devastating charge.

In fact, a brood of 5 Raveners with spinefists that gets a charge on 30 Slugga Boyz (not all that hard when they have an 18" charge range, even if you aren't fleeting) will slaughter the lot of them over a few turns and come out of the fight with 2 models down and one having taken a wound. 5 Terminators with lightning claws get shredded by 30 Sluggaz, but 5 Raveners just chew through them. For comparison, 8 Berserkers is roughly the same cost, and they'll lose half their numbers against those 30 Sluggaz, assuming they manage to get the charge, which they often won't.

Sure, it's a bit unrealistic to expect the enemy to have a mob of 30 boyz without a power klaw somewhere in there, but it's also unrealistic to expect mobs of 30 boyz to reach your lines without having taken any casualties. In fact, the reason I did the numbers on that fight was because of a game in which my 5 Raveners charged around 20 Sluggaz with a PK nob and wiped them off the table, which I found pretty amazing, since I'd expected that to be a hard fight that the Orks would eventually win if I didn't bring any support. In fact, I took down about 15 on the charge and then lost a 1-wound Ravener to the klaw, then the Orks broke and were swept. A bit lucky, but it shows the power of the new Raveners.

Anyone else had any experience with them?

philbrad2
03-01-2010, 11:16
Well seeing as the codex isn't out officially yet - that would be a no :D

From what I've heard they do sound much improved. My NIds have 5 of them (3 CC and 2 DEATHSPITTERS) they tended to deep strike in then do naff all apart from get shot to pieces. Love the models and I think its like the Termis and CSM Possessed GW have seen people dont use them so tweak the rules to make them more appealing.

PhilB
:chrome:

Vovin
03-01-2010, 11:17
I don't see how 5 Raveners can actually chew through Terminators.

25 attacks on the charge = 200/9 hits = 100/9 wounds = 100/54 losses
that's approximately 2 dead Terminators.

9 attacks back = 9/2 hits = 27/8 wounds = 27/8 losses
thats one and a half dead raveners

so the Raveners lost the combat.
But who fields Terminators with crappy Lightning Claws anyhow when there is the totally awesome Stormshield/Thunderhammer combo? Thunderhammer-Termies wipe the floor with Raveners in any case.

squeekenator
03-01-2010, 11:32
Well seeing as the codex isn't out officially yet - that would be a no :D

Oh, of course. This is all a hypothetical situation. I was simply imagining what things would be like if we could somehow see what would be in the codex before the official release. The idea is laughable, I know - it would require something silly like people sharing rumours and summary .pdf files on the internet, and we all know that that could never happen.

Vovin: I was comparing the horde-killing potential of Terminators and Raveners, not pitting them against each other. While lightning claw-armed Terminators may be unfasionable nowadays, they're still a very nasty anti-infantry unit once they get up close, and they were the first thing that popped into my head when I decided to compare Raveners to another horde killing elite unit.

Thanatos_elNyx
03-01-2010, 11:57
But who fields Terminators with crappy Lightning Claws anyhow when there is the totally awesome stormshield/Thunderhammer combo?
:cries:
*Runs away and cries into my csm codex*

sayles78
03-01-2010, 12:11
:cries:
*Runs away and cries into my csm codex*

*ROFL*

*Then feels guilty about it*

totgeboren
03-01-2010, 12:41
In fact, I took down about 15 on the charge and then lost a 1-wound Ravener to the klaw, then the Orks broke and were swept.

The only way to lose a 1-wound Ravener to a PK is if it is the last model alive in the unit, since Instant kills have to be applied to unhurt models first. This actually have some effect, especially on combat resolution.

I myself believe the new Raveners and Warriors to be very very useful, but this little rule is causing many to whine and say that the new middle-size creatures are unusable, since they can be killed with lascannons and powerfists...

AmasNagol
03-01-2010, 13:06
:cries:
*Runs away and cries into my csm codex*

Your Combat Terminators surely all have MoS and are Champions, though? Right? ....right?

Mannimarco
03-01-2010, 13:09
oh god thats pricy but yeah the main advantage of the chaos termy is you can upgrade them to champions, seeing 4 chainfist armed champs going after tanks is a sight to behold

Latro_
03-01-2010, 13:16
They straight s4 without upgrades then?

meh 40k never pans out like one unit vs another, unless you can upgrade em so they can take on but stuff, a counter charge from a dread/daemon prince/warboss on bike etc.. is gonna finish them in no time.

Abaddonshand
03-01-2010, 14:37
With removal of the leaping option for warriors, I can see me taking a few raveners instead of my CC warriors(have one with rending claws, ordered a box of new ones), provided they get the same 3 wounds and 4+ save applicable to warriors now of course.

DarkstarSabre
03-01-2010, 15:00
And suddenly me going out and buying 21 Raveners over the last year isn't a bad plan at all.

:D

AmasNagol
03-01-2010, 15:01
It is until they get shot to pieces by small arms fire. And Krak Missiles.

Latro_
03-01-2010, 16:05
Yea i fear that change is gonna be a pain for a lot of warrior heavy nid armies.
Just far to many power fists in the game.

Well my 6 attack defiler laughs and multi wound units he can ins death.

Vepr
03-01-2010, 17:01
I don't see how 5 Raveners can actually chew through Terminators.

25 attacks on the charge = 200/9 hits = 100/9 wounds = 100/54 losses
that's approximately 2 dead Terminators.

9 attacks back = 9/2 hits = 27/8 wounds = 27/8 losses
thats one and a half dead raveners

so the Raveners lost the combat.
But who fields Terminators with crappy Lightning Claws anyhow when there is the totally awesome Stormshield/Thunderhammer combo? Thunderhammer-Termies wipe the floor with Raveners in any case.

Was that counting rerolling all misses due to two sets of talons?

kaimarion
03-01-2010, 17:31
I don't really see the ravs as much of a threat seeing as they only have a 5+ sv, lets see what happens when they get in range of some shoota boyz :p, even if they got the charge the nob inside of the squad will quickly help in tearing them a new one. Personally I would use them for taking out heavy weapons teams, models with bad saves, small groups of infantry and skimmers.

The boys get 60 shots 20 of which hit 10 of which wound and that's 3 dead ravs and 1 wounded. The ravs fire their spinefists getting 8 shots 6 of which will hit and 2 of which will wound meaning two dead orks, now they charge and get 10 attacks roughly 8 hit and 4 wound the orks will probably lose 3 boys.
After that the boyz and nob get to attack back and it all goes downhill for the ravs...


EDIT: Damn your right they are AP6.

RampagingRavener
03-01-2010, 17:40
The boys get 60 shots 20 of which hit 10 of which wound and that's 3 dead ravs and 1 wounded.

Last time I checked, Shootas are AP6. 10 wounds on a Ravener brood would equate to two dead, and one taking a single wound, I think. Meaning it'd be 12 shots, 8 hits, almost three dead Orks. They charge with 15 attacks scoring around 12 hits, 6 wounds, 5 dead Orks.

It's unlikely to tilt the results away from the Shoota Boyz, but all that goes to prove is that if you let your fragile, fast-moving Raveners get targeted, in the open with no cover save, by a large mob of Shootaboyz, then you deserve to lose them.

Vineas
03-01-2010, 18:02
With double talon ravs I get .5 more dead marines fewer than rending claws. That's with 4 Raveners on the charge.

So 5 pts MIGHT buy you one 1 more dead marine but at a cost of 20 more points for the brood.

If you want to vehicle hunt than obviously RC's are worth it but I think I'll be swapping my RC's for another set of Talons as rending is wasted on orks and IG so the discrepancy is even bigger.

Zanzibarthefirst
03-01-2010, 19:11
but then you have to consider that they coudl assault another unit and that extra 20pts might be worth it when that extra 1 marine is in fact something expensive like sternguard or the like

Thanatos_elNyx
04-01-2010, 10:22
Your Combat Terminators surely all have MoS and are Champions, though? Right? ....right?

Champions definately, MoS sometimes
I usually run a Tzeentch themed list but with splashes of Slaanesh (Not Lash though)

shabbadoo
04-01-2010, 10:33
In fact, the reason I did the numbers on that fight was because of a game in which my 5 Raveners charged around 20 Sluggaz with a PK nob and wiped them off the table, which I found pretty amazing, since I'd expected that to be a hard fight that the Orks would eventually win if I didn't bring any support. In fact, I took down about 15 on the charge and then lost a 1-wound Ravener to the klaw, then the Orks broke and were swept. A bit lucky, but it shows the power of the new Raveners.

Not really that lucky at all. Being charged is the Orks big weakness(Shh! Don't tell anybody!). :p Even if Orks get beat in combat and stick around, they are taking No Retreat wounds with a 6+ armor save, likely crippling or even wiping out the unit. 25 WS 5 Str 4 attacks on the charge, let alone with spinefist shooting added in, will pretty much cripple any Ork Mob. Best of all, the cost for 5 Raveners with just a minor upgrade is not that much, and they are effective against most basic units in the game that have Initiative values of 4 and less.

ShurikenSerpent
04-01-2010, 10:47
But who fields Terminators with crappy Lightning Claws anyhow when there is the totally awesome Stormshield/Thunderhammer combo? Thunderhammer-Termies wipe the floor with Raveners in any case.

Oh... oh.. oh... can I? Please?

My Templar Crusaders would like to say hello. 5-man Terminator Assault squad with lightning claws, furious charge and preferred enemy due to Accept any Challenge. Plus Marshall with Thunder Hammer/SS. Rawr. You deaded.

But back on topic, Raveners always used to worry me because I know how quick those snaky buggers can move. It used to be shoot the big ones, then it was shoot the fast ones, now it's shoot the big, fast, scary stabby ones, while you've got something left to shoot with! I reckon we'll be seeing a lot more from these bad boys, oh yes.

catbarf
04-01-2010, 11:17
I think that Rending Claws are a very useful upgrade. Against MEQs, a brood of 3 Raveners will score an average of 1.77 kills. With Rending Claws, that number jumps to 2.33- a 32% increase in killing power for a 17% increase in cost. While they are less effective than the Scything Talons against GEQs, just about every army has a tough target that the Raveners can go after. Improved anti-vehicle is useful too.