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Cpt. Drill
03-01-2010, 15:33
Hi guys I picked up a copy of WotR for christmas, it has been reccomended to me by lots of people as it apparently combines the best ideas from warhammer and warmaster. Oh I am a complete warmaster and Tolkien whore. I used to play when it first came out but found larger games turned out to be too tedious to resolve combats or it was to much of a hero siege.

Anyway I havent started reading the rules yet as I havent played any kind of intro game. Without some kind of referance on how the game works I find it really hard to put together the rules in my head (I hope that makes sense). I want to start planning an army, Just 500pts to begin with.

Can anyone give me any recommendations on putting a force together?

I am more drawn to an evil army at the moment as alot of the local gamers play elves and men. I have a bunch of Orcs laying around aswell as some mordor uruks, so was thinking of having them as my main army then adding in some of the misty mountains units for some diversity. I am definatly in the school of gamers where I would rather have a awesomely cool force both in looks and theme rather than being badass on the tabletop. Although I do still enjoy winning from time to time.

The idea I have so far is...

Some kind of Orc leader

A bunch of orcs

A troll?

Then adding in some misty mountains wargs.

So from my thoughts were Orcs for my troops of the line, a troll for some hitting power and the wargs for the speed. Is this the right line of thinking? Or is the idea awful?

I am quite set on having some wargs. I think I could convert some nice looking feral dogs from chaos hound plastics. Eventually I would really like to do a bit of a spider army. I like the Princess Mononoke / Animals of Farthing wood feel of the evil talking animals. Also It would mean I only need to make one purchase for the army to be complete (also maybe an orc captain or shaman or something?).

One last thing how are the spider units in the game? I adore the shelob model and I like the idea of the giant spiders alot! Could you do a pure arachnophobia army list and still play competatively.


Any advice would be great. Please bare with me as I am fairly new to this system.

Avatar of the Eldar
03-01-2010, 17:14
Welcome aboard the WotR train! I'm pretty confident you'll enjoy this game system.

First off, your thinking is in the right direction. A mass of orcs for your line, definitely a troll (later two or three as your grow your army) for tactical punch and definitely warg riders (and other cav) to guard your flanks/get the other guy's flanks.

I think what people here can help you figure out is proportions. Here's my swing at it admitting I've never played less than 1000 pts. (And recommend you get to that level or higher to fully enjoy this game.)

- Orcs need to be in formations bigger than their opponents. They need numbers because they're not great troops. (And they're not supposed to be.) They're made better situationally through command groups (esp. captains to increase Courage and enable "At the Double" movements, banners to reroll Courage tests, taskmasters to increase Courage) or Epic Heroes - especially Gothmog or magic spells that buff courage, strength, etc. Maybe 2 formations of 4 companies, assuming a good army will be fielding 3-company formations at 500 pts.

- At 500, I'd start with just one Epic Hero - either Gothmog or just one Nazgul. Probably a Nazgul because Gothmog is fairly powerful and you might have a better learning experience getting to throw some spells around.

- A troll is straightforward but keep him just behind the line to give you options where to throw him in when the time is right.

- The thing to remember about cavalry in general and Wargriders in particular is that they're vulnerable to shooting and they don't have many models which means less staying power. In regular sized games (1500+) I would field them in formations of at least 4, probably 6 companies. Keep them screened behind your infantry or terrain. Use At the Double moves and to get around flanks. I play Gondor and I routinely shred this unit with concentrated archer fire. I know you like Wargs, but think about Morgul Knights or allied Kataphrakts as you grow your force.

- Not to spoon feed you or anything but I just worked up a quick list on Army Builder

2000 Pts - Mordor Army - Mordor Starter List

1 Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
1 Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul

8 Mordor Orc Warband
4 Mordor Orc Warband - Hand Weapons; Shields
4 Mordor Orc Warband - Hand Weapons

1 Mordor Troll
1 Mordor Troll - Armour; Hand Weapons; Thrown Weapons

3 Warg Rider Warband
3 Warg Rider Warband - Hand Weapons; Shields; Thrown Weapons

Total Army Cost: 680

In my opinion that's just barely enough to play this system, but you can see it quickly adds up.

- Last comment - just get stuck in. Find a buddy and start playing to learn. It doesn't play like WFB (in a good way) so there's a head-shift but you're familiar with Warmaster so that will help.

Have fun!

Shrapnelsmile
03-01-2010, 17:25
Greetings and welcome.

I play Warmaster too, and that's why my game group is attracted to this system, so we think you've made a good choice.

Spiders are fun -- in fluff, so add some in. You could even use a portion of your allies with Druzhag (spelling?) the beast caller, a goblin hero. He can summon those spiders, so you can focus your actual list on the excellent suggestions above.

Enjoy and keep in touch. I know it's recommended that a game start at 750 points or so, but we are going to paint up to 400 (getting there) and then play, just to get our feet wet with the very basics and to increase our motivation. Once we play a half dozen practice games at 400 points, we are going to paint to like 600, do it again, etc. Whatever keep you having fun, just enjoy!

Cpt. Drill
04-01-2010, 00:04
Thanks alot for the in depth answer Avatar. I think I am going to have to ease myself into this system with an army that I can make with minimum purchases at the moment. Although I am glad you warned me about regular points values for games, I understand exactly what you mean. If someone told me they were going to play warmaster and had a 500pts army I would strongly encorage them to go up to 2000pts or more to really get a feel for the game.

Also I am really out of the habit of paiting 25mm models so a 150 model army might be a little ambitous for me at the moment.


Shrapnelsmile, I like the theory behind getting together a small playable force and then expanding to slightly larger. It seems like a really logical way to get into a new system.

I looked up Druzhag and that guy looks great. I have abeen a little out of the loop with anything outside of 10mm for a while now and missed his release. Its a great model and I imagine it would like awesome amongst a group of goblins. I have been really drawn to the Spider idea since I saw your post, are any of the spiders heroes though? Will I need to have a another race leading the army?

Would a misty mountains army with no goblins in it work? Could you make a pure Warg, spider and bat army maybe with a giant in it and still play effectively?


I am not a big fan of the spider queen model but I do love her swarms. I wonder if I could find any other nice swarm models out there on the internet?

Avatar of the Eldar
04-01-2010, 03:22
Working from the end of your post to the beginning...

- Check out these spiders at Ebob:
http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/fantasy.htm#1

- Haven't seen anyone run a goblin-less Misty Mountains list, but the reality of the objectives system is that you need infantry to hold objectives. Also, cavalry based units tend to be fragile and don't have the depth to soak up damage. So, I think it could be fun as a theme game that may require some list balancing on your opponent's side. But not an all-comers list, no.

- Don't despair, painting WotR is much less onerous than WFB or 40K. There's just much less detail on the models. My Gondor (Raider Nation) and Easterlings (49er's) go lickity-split.

- Good news in expanding Misty Mountains is that there's always Goblins and Cave Trolls on eBay, Bartertown, etc. Wargs are a bit rarer, Spiders and Bats almost never seen.

Good luck and just post if you need a sounding board.

Sedge
04-01-2010, 10:53
Those spiders are ace. I'm tempted to get one for a Shelob model. :)

lorelorn
04-01-2010, 11:21
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I looked up Druzhag and that guy looks great. I have abeen a little out of the loop with anything outside of 10mm for a while now and missed his release. Its a great model and I imagine it would like awesome amongst a group of goblins.

Would a misty mountains army with no goblins in it work? Could you make a pure Warg, spider and bat army maybe with a giant in it and still play effectively?



I hope so, since I building one very close to that myself. However goblins are really, really good in war of the ring. Cheap, fast, effective, and easy to raise their courage with their drums and cheap overlord. You are leaving out power when you leave out the goblins.

However, I wanted a rag-tag feral Misty Mountains army, and that is what I am building. No blackshields, no king, no goblin warriors.

Here's the 1200 point list:

6 companies of wargs with chieftain: 170
6 companies of wargs with chieftain: 170
6 companies of wargs with chieftain: 170
6 companies of wargs with chieftain: 170

Stone Giant: 250

3 companies of spider broodling swarms: 120

Druzag: 100

Tormented Steeds: 50

It's not an especially strong list, and will suffer greatly against any army high in terror-causing units. It's just a mad goblin capering around with his odd pets!

The idea is to distract with ambushers and summoned giant spiders, move up aggressively with the wargs, and try to set up flank/rear charges with my prowler units. Which is everything except the Giant.


There would certainly be better options to make the list harder.

The Dark Marshal is a great character to use in a goblin-less list, since he grants Courage 5 to any unit within 12" regardless of type. Also I think a unit of prowlers that sticks to defensive terrain makes a good home for Druzag.

I think giant spiders are better summoned than bought for the list. IMO wargs deliver better value for the points.

For the swarms I'll pick up a spider queen (the army will top out between 2500 and 3000 when finished so the queen will be used) and then get to work with green stuff or something to knock out some similar looking bases so I have enough swarms.

48 wargs sounds like a lot, but I'm using the warhammer chaos hounds so that's five boxes with two spares. The spares give me the option to split some of those warg units into 4 companies strong, while still keeping enough chieftain models to do so.

Since I've been gaming for so long I have the 12 giant spiders from warhammer quest lying around. They will be used as summoning targets for druzag, I will green stuff some extra bulk on their bodies, they should go fine.


At 500 points you could try:

6 companies of wargs, chieftain: 170
4 companies of wargs, chieftain: 130

cave troll: 75

druzag: 100

black-hearted trees (or Curse of Morgoth): 25

that would be two boxes of warhammer chaos hounds (assuming you're happy to use those), the troll and druzag. 22 models. You would then need to find additional models to summon however.


edit: arachnophobia-wise, Shelob is an excellent choice for any army. But if you're going Misty Mountains for everything else you need a 1000 point of higher army before she can be included as an ally. For example 1000 points could be 750 from MM plus Shelob.

After looking at those excellent ebob spiders Avatar linked to maybe this at 1000 points:

6 companies of wargs, chieftain: 170
4 companies of wargs, chieftain: 120
3 companies of giant spiders: 105


stone giant: 250

druzag: 100

shelob: 250

comes to 995, with more of those giant spiders to be used for summoning.

this would leave 20 points unused, you could always add another warg company.

Cpt. Drill
08-01-2010, 02:47
Thanks for the replies, I have been looking around for bits and bobs I would need to aquire for this army.

In the mean time I have ben contemplating my a dwarfen force. I was hoping to make a more competative list for this army as I plan for my Misty Mountains list to be fairly silly.

I was hoping to buy boxes of dwarf warriors, use the shield goons for dwarf warrior blocks, sculpt cloaks on the archers and make rangers and sculpt face gaurds and additional armour to the great weapon guys for khazad gaurd. I think I can make this work especially with carefully chose paintjobs.

I was aiming for about 1000pts to begin with. Then ideally I could extend to 1500 then on to 2000.

So with my modelling project in mind I was thinking

4 companies of dwarf warriors with shields

2 compaines of dwarf rangers with bows

2 compaines of dwarf rangers with bows

4 companies of khazad gaurd

a kings champion

Dain


This leaves me with just under 100pts for command models...


I have never played the game and know little of the rules, I am worried that the only eciting thing to use in the army will be the kings champion. Maybe I should try and squeeze in a ballista or a mage from the forgotton kingdoms?

Any thoughts?

Am I going about this army completely the wrong way?

What size should formations be?

Do I need more heroes?

More units of reknown?

Is this even legal!?

Will it be fun?

Okay... I think those are my main worries... Any advice would be awesome.

lorelorn
08-01-2010, 10:55
The army is perfectly legal, and should provide for some interesting games.

On the rangers I would say don't write off basic dwarf warriors with bows. Even a couple of companies of those provide a harassing unit that isn't afraid to approach the enemy. With S4 and D6 they are no pushovers even in just two companies.

Sculpting warriors with great weapons into khazad guard is the sensible thing to do.

Shrapnelsmile
08-01-2010, 11:03
nice list to start with!

If you are considering placing an order for a Ballista, perhaps shake things way up a notch and get an Eagle as an ally. May put you a bit over 1,000 points, but would provide an unexpected twist for your opponent on those games you decide to use her.
With an Eagle's points you could combine the archers into one group of 3 companies and save yourself some painting time, leaving the rest for later.

Regardless looks like a good start

Cpt. Drill
09-01-2010, 13:24
I do really like the Eagles and I am pretty sure somewhere in my mothers house I have the escape from orthanc box set. Kind of forgot I had it.

With my sare points should I add command to the units? Champion, musicians, standards or shieldbeareres. I know they are not the same as warhammer ones so do I need any?

Avatar of the Eldar
09-01-2010, 17:17
I do really like the Eagles and I am pretty sure somewhere in my mothers house I have the escape from orthanc box set. Kind of forgot I had it.

With my sare points should I add command to the units? Champion, musicians, standards or shieldbeareres. I know they are not the same as warhammer ones so do I need any?

Start with Capt, then Banners, then Shieldbearers as you can afford. But you'll need Champs to make At the Double moves - which you're short-legged guys will need not to be completely outmanouvered - as well as heroic actions as needed.

Start with a capt for each, then Banners for the hth formations.