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Delicious Ron
05-01-2010, 04:58
I haven't got around playing any cityfight games yet but I love the imagery of urban warfare and it's horrors and as I ponder over my next hobby project I'm drawn to it.

But which army has the best tools for the job?

As I see it Stealth and Move through cover USR would be useful, as would a prevalence of frag grenades. An army with a focus on CC would probably benefit most from the increased amount of cover saves. Something infantry heavy would also be useful probably.


So... Orks?

Iceheart2112
05-01-2010, 05:06
I'd think that Sisters of Battle would have a really good chance at being one of the best ones. But with the prevalence of cover saves, you're probably gonna get more out of IG, as you can load up with models and they'll all get cover saves.

starlight
05-01-2010, 05:06
Well Orks are my first choice for *everything*, so on to my second... ;)

Urban Warfare...? These days, pretty much every army has a build that will do well in a built-up environment...

Of my favourites, I'd take my Sisters of Battle...lots of cover denying weapons, and their shorter range isn't a downside, plus IG are strong and you can have both in the same list. :D

pies
05-01-2010, 05:10
Tyranids could do pretty well, what with all the liking cover saves and move through cover, MC's would probably be happy but leave the spore pods home.

Bathawk
05-01-2010, 05:11
I'd say daemons, extremely nasty in close combat, and limited LoS reduces the effect of ranged weapons, giving daemons a better chance to move into position

freddieyu
05-01-2010, 05:14
Infantry heavy orks can do well..so can the IG (flamer spam!!!!)...

S00N3R FR3AK
05-01-2010, 05:18
Necrons could be good if they don't have to do a lot of moving. Shorter LoS would help them create firing lanes. If an army had 2 lords with rez orbs it could even be split.

mightymconeshot
05-01-2010, 05:54
space wolves with melta flamer packed by wolf guard and cheap long fangs to force units to hug buildings. no need for rhinos so 11 man squads.

Shadowfax
05-01-2010, 06:07
Tyranids could do pretty well, what with all the liking cover saves and move through cover, MC's would probably be happy but leave the spore pods home.
Most, if not all, of the mid-sized bugs lost Move Through Cover.

On the other hand, the tunneling units + infiltrating Lictors/Deathleaper + hibernating Ymgarls + outflanking Genestealers all have unbelievably awesome cityfight flavour.

polymphus
05-01-2010, 06:10
Are we talking rules or background? Because the Tau codex goes on about how they're urban combat experts, although they're not so great when it comes to TT.

starlight
05-01-2010, 06:16
Back in 3rd/4th, I could see the justification for calling Tau that, but until they get their 5th Ed book, their 4th Ed one has them hampered... :( ...although a knowledgeable Tau player could likely make it work... :)

polymphus
05-01-2010, 06:22
They certainly excel at mobile, close quarters firepower but I feel their CC weakness would be rather crippling. A good general could use devilfish to gain/keep local superiority and use streets as chokepoints and firing lanes, but the possibility of CC ambush seems too dangerous to really put them up there with the best.

starlight
05-01-2010, 06:27
Indeed, and in 3rd/4th, they had better JSJ/Cover symbiosis to take advantage of and keep them out of return LoS and CC...

Not so much in 5th... :( ...so it takes a better gamer to get a good game out of them... I don't know about *best*, but they certainly aren't the *easiest* (although they never were that...). :p

If they can stay out of CC (and with Bug ambushes on the horizon... :eek: ) they have the tools... :)

Archangel_Ruined
05-01-2010, 11:35
Spacewolves are pretty damn tough. Sitting in cover with 2 special weapons per GH squad, with counter attack for when things are daft enough to run through the bolter hail. As someone else said, with some cheap wolfguard thrown in you can have some nasty close combat weapons floating around in the squads too. Throw in some wolf scouts to run interference and you've got a nasty up close and personal army, capable of firefights and fisticuffs.

LonelyPath
05-01-2010, 12:31
Sisters are pretty amazing. Grey Knights can also make an impact in such games with narrow alleys to fire through and massed psycannons and/or incinerators which I once used the latter to wipe out 20 bloodletters in a single shooting phase in such a game. However, with such short range shooting matched, GK will lose their Shrouding, even though it's not that effective against shooting most of the time anyway, lol.

Delicious Ron
05-01-2010, 12:44
Are we talking rules or background?

I was talking mostly from a rules perspective, When it comes to fluff Imperial guard is to me the most iconic city fighters :chrome:

Bunnahabhain
05-01-2010, 13:00
Guard can work very well indeed, simply due to the number of men, squads and special weapons they can have. A few cheap chimeras as roadblocks with heavy flamers add something as well.

in the background...
Guard artillery regiments. Now where was that city?

totgeboren
05-01-2010, 13:11
I found my Chaos Marines do much better in cityfights than my Guards. There are generally less heavy vehicles around with MEQ-killing guns, and coversaves reduce alot of the casualties you would receive otherwise. After a close combat its much easier to hide from enemy retaliation for example.

There are generally lot more firefights within 12" in cityfights, and Chaos Marines excel at that range, 2 specials, bolters, and close combat ability means they can handle most enemy units one-on-one. Also, their ability to summon daemons means assault-blockers or extra number wherever you need them. Extremely useful in a game with lots of hindering terrain.

Also, the terrain favors smaller armies, since its easier to avoid enemy firepower, especially heavy weapons and such.

With my traitor guards, my enemy always have something to shoot at, and playing them i generally have a hard time taking out stuff like Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants before they hit my lines, since the terrain hinders my lines of fire.

With that said, both orks and nids are tough as hell in cityfights, but i find orks are easier to handle. They rely much more on the basic troops than nids, and those boys tend to be tightly packed, meaning they are even more vulnerable to flamers and blasts than usual.

Nids rely more on their heavy hitters, who tend to survive longer because of the terrain.

I can imagine Space Wolfs would be comparable to CSM (i.e. very good) in cityfights. Their counter attack making up for their lack of assault shields (daemons).

Remoah
05-01-2010, 14:21
I'd say it depends on your play style. The two best armies that spring to mind are Guard and Sisters.

Guard can basically pack in a helluva lot of template weapons, with relativley decent BS so that thier other weapons will hit, and some really good units that would be great in support (Mortar Squads, Sentinels, Russ's, and many more). And also, of course, there's alot of models there that the enemy must contend with.

Sisters, also, pack in a bucket of template weapons, as well as close-ranged meltas for dealing with the big ones. On the upside, as well, they're tough enough, and have a decent enough save, to actually survive long enough to drop a couple of template weapons down.
Plus, thier ability to take units from the Marine and Guard dex means they can make the best of both a large mass of troops (guardsmen), and some very specialised and tough heavy infantry (Sisters/Marines).

Just my 2c though.

RichBlake
05-01-2010, 14:36
I find Guard work well for the following reasons:

1) Cheap flamers, not so much heavy flamers but still.
2) Lots of cheap infantry squads. Depending on the rules you are using depends what is scoring but in Cities of Death lots of cheap scoring troops choices are better then a few good ones.
3) Cover ignoring vehicles. One is S6 AP3 and is artillery and one is S6 AP4 and is on a Leman Russ. I nearly always take the Colossus (S6 AP3 no cover is ACE in CoD) but if you really want to take an Eradicator I guess you can. Also you can take the Deathstrike which is S10 AP1 ignores cover, though due to the rules the Deathstrike would kill all the infantry but not the buildings...
4) Access to indirect fire weapons. Guard Artillery is arguably the best there is and no line of sight is a good thing. If you play as is written in the book you wont have LoS for the first turn minimum and being able to fire upon your opponent from the get go is a nice advantage. Plus the Manticore is like the ultimate anti-artillery artillery as S10 AP4 D3 Ordnance means you can take the fight to enemy artillery or indirect firing vehicles (Whirlwinds, other Guard Artillery).
5) Scout Sentinels with move through cover are awesome and the Armoured Sentinels mean that though slower they are less susceptible to being ambushed by a marine with a krak grenade. Arming these with heavy flamers will work wonders.

There is probably more but oh well. There are some pretty good reasons. Here are my two favourite combinations though:

Armoured Sentinels + Fuel Dump stratagem (3 S6 heavy flamers)

Valkryie + Stomrtroopers + Rapelling Lines stratagem + Plunging Fire Stratagem + Target On My Command! Order (Stromtroopers disembark from valkyrie onto top floor of building thanks to rapelling lines, stromtroopers with AP3 guns shoot down at enemy who suffer -1 to cover thanks to Plunging fire and then enemy has to re-roll successful cover saves thanks to Target on my command).

bocaj
05-01-2010, 15:47
IMO probbaly orks with just using loads of them. Nacrons could be quite nasty if you use a C'Tan and wraithwing units that are good in CC that can go throught terrain. Ouch

Promethius
05-01-2010, 16:50
The answer imo has to be guard. They have a lot to gain in terms of cover saves, and have more ways than most to get around the disadvantages of fighting in cities with cheap flamers and other cover-ignoring weapons.