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FLAKPANZER
09-01-2010, 17:44
Hi folks,

Quick background/fluff question:

Are Valkyrie Assault Carriers used to drop troops onto a battlefield from Orbit?
In other words, are they capable of operating in space?

Thanks.

Twisted Heretic
09-01-2010, 17:45
I believe they are capable of being deployed from low-orbit, but they are not capable of actual spaceflight.

Bunnahabhain
09-01-2010, 17:55
No.
"They are atmospheric aircraft, and cannot operate in the vacuum of space, although it can be sealed against hostile environments'. '

Source, Imperial armour 1, Imperial Guard and imperial navy, Page 241 (Valkyrie airborne assault carrier.)

Lord Cook
09-01-2010, 18:17
Valkyries and Vultures are atmospheric craft, so they must be deployed from a spacecraft that has already entered the atmosphere first.

Lightnings can operate in space. Whether Thunderbolts can too I can't remember.

Gutlord Grom
09-01-2010, 18:38
I'm pretty sure ,as Lord Cook said said, that Lightnings can operate from space. I'm pretty sure that all types of Marauders and more then likely Thunderbolts can operate in space. Once you get past those, you get into the region of Furies and Starhawk bombers which are "true" space fighting ships.

catbarf
09-01-2010, 18:44
The engines are air-fed turbines and so wouldn't work in space, but if they can be sealed I can imagine them being dropped from low orbit. It would drastically increase their range.

Bunnahabhain
09-01-2010, 19:06
The engines are air-fed turbines and so wouldn't work in space, but if they can be sealed I can imagine them being dropped from low orbit. It would drastically increase their range.

Will depend on how pressurised the cabin is, and how strong it is. Dropping from low orbit, there will be negligible air pressure outside, so it has a potential to just pop like a balloon if you get it wrong....

Of course, most imperial aircraft are so un-aerodynamic, assuming they can stand the lack of pressure, they should be able to areobreak at the top of atmosphere, and drop into true flight, without burning up..

More from IA1...
Lightnings can drop from orbit ( p216), as can thunderbolts( p223), but these are just a vacuum seal, and a bolt on rocket motor to boost them back up to low orbit.
Marauders can operate from orbit too.

Valkyries and vultures are strictly atmosphere only, according to the very big book of glossy background, and nothing in the codex suggests otherwise.

FLAKPANZER
09-01-2010, 22:14
Thanks for the info folks.

In that case, I guess the Imperial Guard aren't capable of rapid deployment from space as are the Marines with drop pods?

catbarf
09-01-2010, 22:20
Valkyries and vultures are strictly atmosphere only, according to the very big book of glossy background, and nothing in the codex suggests otherwise.

Right, but it's not inconceivable that such an arrangement would be used with Valkyries or Vultures. It would allow rapid strike and long range.

Just because it's not standard practice doesn't mean it's not possible or acceptable for the purpose of background fluff, especially given the size of the Imperium.

Lord Cook
09-01-2010, 22:37
In that case, I guess the Imperial Guard aren't capable of rapid deployment from space as are the Marines with drop pods?

The Imperial Guard don't generally do rapid point incursions.

Land a few platoons, secure a landing zone. Once the LZ is clear, land a company. Widen perimeter. Secure a larger LZ. Land a mass transport, and start unloading multiple companies. Widen perimeter. Secure larger area. Land regiments. More transports, unload supplies. Bring down the tanks. And so on and so on...

That said, a rapid assault is not out of the question. There are numerous instances in Black Library novels of Imperial Guard using drop ships to carry down single squads or single platoons directly into a combat zone, from orbit. There are several regiments (such as the Elysians and Harakoni) that specialise in such tactics. There are even rules for these light drop ships, and models too (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/arvusl.htm).

The recent Imperial Armour books (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_BOOKS_12.html) also have fluff and rules about huge gravity lifts from the Dark Age of Technology, where a ship in orbit will create a vast cone of energy leading right down to the planet's surface, allowing entire platoons of guardsmen to simply step into the beam and drift slowly down to the ground in safety.

So there are many ways in which the Guard can make rapid assaults. Remember the Marines are so rare they may as well not exist for most Imperial planets, so anything that needs doing must be handled by either the Guard or the Navy.

FLAKPANZER
09-01-2010, 22:51
So there are many ways in which the Guard can make rapid assaults. Remember the Marines are so rare they may as well not exist for most Imperial planets, so anything that needs doing must be handled by either the Guard or the Navy.

Exactly, that's why I was asking about rapid assaults.

What vehicles (and where can I find the fluff) do IG use to land large forces on a planet in order to secure a landing zone ?

Lord Cook
10-01-2010, 01:57
What vehicles (and where can I find the fluff) do IG use to land large forces on a planet in order to secure a landing zone ?

I included the links in my previous post.

FLAKPANZER
10-01-2010, 03:37
I saw the link for the Arvus (thanks!), but do any of the books allude to a bigger type of landing craft for landing...say a company...of Imperial Guard troops?

MajorWesJanson
10-01-2010, 04:39
I saw the link for the Arvus (thanks!), but do any of the books allude to a bigger type of landing craft for landing...say a company...of Imperial Guard troops?

Landing Craft come in all sorts of designs and sizes. No specifics on them really, but they show up a lot in the Cain books.

pies
10-01-2010, 06:34
The largest lander I know of is the Tetrach heavy lander, which is seen on the cover of the new guard book and lands regiments. it's slow (for something that flies) and heavily armed, made to smash the LZ of all defence before unleashing hundreds of tanks or thousands of guardsmen.

meno1
10-01-2010, 08:34
That said, a rapid assault is not out of the question. There are numerous instances in Black Library novels of Imperial Guard using drop ships to carry down single squads or single platoons directly into a combat zone, from orbit.

Just read Traitor General, and can second this. There are Imperial Guard kill-teams who drop in to assassinate even just one man, which can easily disrupt the hostile forces on the planet.

But, for the Guard, the most effective rapid assault is to get their transport ships inside the atmosphere or just above, where they send many troop-carriers to deploy from a single squad to sometimes a whole platoon per carrier. This tactic is used in a beach-front assault in The Founding.

As for deploying a LZ, I imagine the same sort of technique would be used. Troop carriers could easily carry down a work-team (or platoon) and a heap of flak board. Flak board is used extensively in temporary IG bases, like the whole place is made out of it, so I can imagine it being fairly easy for just a platoon (or even the whole regiment) to come down and secure themselves (also in The Founding).

Lord Cook
10-01-2010, 15:38
I saw the link for the Arvus (thanks!), but do any of the books allude to a bigger type of landing craft for landing...say a company...of Imperial Guard troops?

Oh, not as such no. They exist, but they tend to be poorly defined. It seems as though they are less standardized, so different sectors will use different craft.

tu33y
11-01-2010, 08:42
The Imperial Guard don't generally do rapid point incursions.

Land a few platoons, secure a landing zone. Once the LZ is clear, land a company. Widen perimeter. Secure a larger LZ. Land a mass transport, and start unloading multiple companies. Widen perimeter. Secure larger area. Land regiments. More transports, unload supplies. Bring down the tanks. And so on and so on...



just like modern airmobile/aircav troops. see "we were soldiers.." or research the battle of Ira Drang valley in Vietnam.
seems to me ith IG always build a bridgehead on any planet then forge out from that... like old "command and conquer"... base first then ship stuff in slowly.

but i understand the valk is indeed atmospheric flight only which is a shame cos then you cannot be on:

"....an express elevator to hell! going down!!"