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bagobitz
12-01-2010, 04:46
does anyone know when the new tau codex is coming out? one of my friends told me 2012 but idk if its even been announced

Gearhead
12-01-2010, 05:03
It hasn't been annouced, speculation (not facts) have placed it either this year or next. People seem to be debating as to whether an update would be a good thing; since Tau would need considerably more firepower to bring them up from where they are, it'd be very easy to mess up somewhere.

Cognitave
12-01-2010, 05:27
Perhaps 2011, but they're almost certainly not going to be this year, considering all the armies that need updating more. Purely speculation.

owen matthew
12-01-2010, 05:35
ALOT of armies need it, but Tau and Necrons NEED it. DE WANT it badly, but could still rip apart Tau and Necrons. Just IMHO. We will probably get a few more MEQ's before any of these get a shot again, though. Boo.

IcedAnimals
12-01-2010, 06:22
there is a high chance that there will be another xeno race done this year. So tau have about a 1 in 3 chance of being done. And most rumors for necrons point them as being the last codex. So that bumps you up to about a 50% chance of tau being the next xeno dex.

Vepr
12-01-2010, 06:23
As a nid player I wish they had done tau and necrons before tyranids.

megatrons2nd
12-01-2010, 06:30
there is a high chance that there will be another xeno race done this year. So tau have about a 1 in 3 chance of being done. And most rumors for necrons point them as being the last codex. So that bumps you up to about a 50% chance of tau being the next xeno dex.

Shouldn't it be like a 25% chance. Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Necrons, and Tau all are in the line for Xenos Codexes. Even if 'Crons are slated for later they may still be pushed up. It also gets worse if they count Inquisitors as a Xenos release rather than a Marine release.

totgeboren
12-01-2010, 06:40
I wound say both BA, DA and BT NEED a new codex before Tau, DE or Necrons, and when the BT have gotten theirs, the current SM codex will look too weak compared the the others, so then vanilla SM will NEED a new codex and the cycle begins again.

What I'm saying is, don't hold your breath. 2012 is as good a guess as any.

IcedAnimals
12-01-2010, 07:56
Shouldn't it be like a 25% chance. Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Necrons, and Tau all are in the line for Xenos Codexes. Even if 'Crons are slated for later they may still be pushed up. It also gets worse if they count Inquisitors as a Xenos release rather than a Marine release.

I do not own an eldar codex and no one in my group does so to be completely honest I have never seen it. However from my understanding it is considered a 5th edition codex. So that puts DE, Crons and Tau. With Crons currently rumored as the last codex of 5th edition. That basically means if there is a second xeno dex this year (magic eight ball says highly likely) it will either be tau or DE.

Which it will be is anyones guess. We have heard that the entire DE line is done and in production and we have also seen new tau models showing up at gamesdays and some decent tau love from forgeworld.

So shrug as far as im concerned its pretty much a coin toss on which will come out but if I was a gambling man id put money down that one of those two will.

Xelloss
12-01-2010, 08:08
BT NEED a new codex before Tau, DE or Necrons
In one word : no.
BT has been hurt by the 5th edition, but as a melee oriented army not so much compared to tau (their skimmers aren't fast anymore, drones give KP - well KP is dumb but that's an other story - their defensive weapons aren't defensive anymore, and "half distance" short range changed into 12"...) The change of the vehicle damage chart was a necessity because gauss weapons were too good, but as usual GW had an heavy hand and now Necrons have an hard time against high AV. And DE... let's say just the present ugly minis are enough to justify a redo.

As an Imperium-sided player, I would like to fight less against fellow Imperium factions and more against filthy Xenos ! Give them a codex GW !

RED9335
12-01-2010, 08:23
see an thats the drunken point im maken lets have som xenos at least and not two or three years out gw.

MadHatter
12-01-2010, 09:09
i would rather see the necrons and dark eldar get redone before most the other armies codex get yet another codex. Come on the dark eldar are now playing with the oldest codex in the game. its thier turn to get updated or just dropped.

the1stpip
12-01-2010, 09:41
Perhaps 2011, but they're almost certainly not going to be this year, considering all the armies that need updating more. Purely speculation.

But then Tyranids and SMs didnt need updating, but they still got it.

It really wouldn't shock me if they got an update before the needy codexes.

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 11:29
It's going to come out this year, or way later, depending on how high GW rates the need for fast cash.
Since they're almost done with all the marines, they're going to have to milk their best-selling xeno for all it's worth soon.

No one's going to argue that dark eldar, necrons, and the inquisition need books more than the tau, but those armies don't sell nearly as well, and require a lot of work to be made viable.

mdauben
12-01-2010, 15:46
Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Necrons, and Tau all are in the line for Xenos Codexes.
If I was sorting them in terms of the neediest, I would rank them Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tau and only then Craftworld Eldar. Of course, we all know that need has little to do with the Codex schedule, or DE would have been done long ago. :rolleyes:


I wound say both BA, DA and BT NEED a new codex before Tau, DE or Necrons,
I think you are confusing want with need. You might want a new DA/BT codex (I'll ingore any issue with BA since they are already scheduled for release next), but any subjective analysis has to indicate that Necrons, DE and even Tau are much more in need of an update than DA or BT. :eyebrows:

Rydmend
12-01-2010, 15:52
I think you can hardly group the Eldar in with Tau and Necrons in terms of needing an update.

I'm not saying that Eldar couldn't use an update I'm just saying Tau and Necrons are way worse off than Eldar.

razormasticator
12-01-2010, 15:57
Eldar need a new book more readily than Tau do. Just because Tau are somewhat underpowered right now, I believe they got a codex revamp after the Eldar book came out.

totgeboren
12-01-2010, 15:57
I think you are confusing want with need. You might want a new DA/BT codex (I'll ingore any issue with BA since they are already scheduled for release next), but any subjective analysis has to indicate that Necrons, DE and even Tau are much more in need of an update than DA or BT. :eyebrows:

I was just being silly, i don't even like marines (unless they are spikey...) ;)

But the GW sales department might think the other marines need a new codex before any xenos need it.

razormasticator
12-01-2010, 15:58
i would rather see the necrons and dark eldar get redone before most the other armies codex get yet another codex. Come on the dark eldar are now playing with the oldest codex in the game. its thier turn to get updated or just dropped.

Very True. I think GW need to really assess if its worth it to do the DE dex. But from what I have heard, its set for this year.

dtjunkie19
12-01-2010, 16:10
Eldar need a new book more readily than Tau do. Just because Tau are somewhat underpowered right now, I believe they got a codex revamp after the Eldar book came out.

I don't think its fair to go by the rule of older = more in need for a new book.

Tau are certainly more underpowered as a whole than eldar. In fact, certain eldar lists (like mechdar) are among the top of the tournament standings. The tau codex "revamp" didn't transition gracefully into 5th ed.

Ideally, books would be completed in the order of what needs to be balanced first, and then after that considerations of what could use new models/rules. Of course it doesn't actually function that way...but one can dream.

razormasticator
12-01-2010, 16:14
I don't think its fair to go by the rule of older = more in need for a new book.

Tau are certainly more underpowered as a whole than eldar. In fact, certain eldar lists (like mechdar) are among the top of the tournament standings. The tau codex "revamp" didn't transition gracefully into 5th ed.

Ideally, books would be completed in the order of what needs to be balanced first, and then after that considerations of what could use new models/rules. Of course it doesn't actually function that way...but one can dream.

Im just saying. Eldar book was what, 2006? Tau was late 07?

I agree with you, I have a Tau army and its a tough nut to crack, but its crackable.

dtjunkie19
12-01-2010, 16:29
True. But as we have seen with WH and DE, sometimes more time actually heals the wounds of an outdated codex haha.

I agree with you on the second part. I've been having a blast with my tau. Its much more of a challenge and that makes my games exciting to play.

mdauben
12-01-2010, 16:33
Eldar need a new book more readily than Tau do. Just because Tau are somewhat underpowered right now, I believe they got a codex revamp after the Eldar book came out.
Yes, but age alone does not mean much. The Tau codex might be newer, but it got hit much harder with the 5e nerf bat than the Eldar did. Certainly, there are things in the Eldar codex that need to be updated, but it remains much more competative than the Tau codex.

razormasticator
12-01-2010, 16:42
Yes, but age alone does not mean much. The Tau codex might be newer, but it got hit much harder with the 5e nerf bat than the Eldar did. Certainly, there are things in the Eldar codex that need to be updated, but it remains much more competative than the Tau codex.

All they really would have to do for eldar is lower the cost of Wave Serpents and make Falcons a dedicated transport for some squads.

This would help alot.

I think the Tau need alot more than that, granted their transports are overcosted as well. But still. They need more than a facelift, they need brain surgery.

galahad67
12-01-2010, 16:43
Which codex/mini release will make GW the most money?

There's your answer...

Follow the $

razormasticator
12-01-2010, 16:48
Which codex/mini release will make GW the most money?

There's your answer...

Follow the $

The popularity of Tau has waned a bit. They were all the rage for the noobs in the early days of 4th and etc.

But I would say they are on par with eldar now, they got alot of initial release interest. But I am sure the casual set has liquidated alot of that now, and with Eldar it has never been the cheapest army to collect due to the all metal aspect warrior squads.

MadHatter
18-01-2010, 09:00
Very True. I think GW need to really assess if its worth it to do the DE dex. But from what I have heard, its set for this year.

Well I have heard the main person behind the sence has been pushing alot of blood and tears into the project.
However i find the fade for many gamers is to buy the newest army. I think if they put some effort into the DE, WH, DH and Necrons they would get better sells for them. especially if they made the WH and DH with plastics so the models are not costing your arm and leg and a stern lecture from your wife for spending you rent money on your army.

Tenken
18-01-2010, 11:12
I'd like to see a new tau dex... but after seeing the new tyranid dex I'm a bit scared. I don't want crisis suits to be treated the same way as carnifexes were, all I'm saying. I'm thinking of starting a Tau army but I'm scared that all my models might become useless when a new dex comes out in the not to distant future. Guess that's kind of the nature of the game though?

Hokiecow
18-01-2010, 13:06
Im just saying. Eldar book was what, 2006? Tau was late 07?

I agree with you, I have a Tau army and its a tough nut to crack, but its crackable.

Tau had there revamp BEFORE Eldar.
The Eldar codex started the funky new codex layout.

Tau codex is older = Check
Tau are underpowered compared to Edlar = Check
Tau had a revamp, not a full blown codex update like Eldar = Check

Tau need a full brand new codex not a quick fix. That's been done, they need time spent on them but I'm afraid that's not going to happen. Latest rumors put Tau in 2010 instead of Necrons or DE.

Thud
18-01-2010, 15:51
Tau had there revamp BEFORE Eldar.
The Eldar codex started the funky new codex layout.

I have to admit that when I saw this post the first thing that went through my mind was "nah, that can't be right." But then I checked the codices, and I'll be damned, Tau Empire came out in 2005, Eldar in 2006.

Deadnight
18-01-2010, 16:23
space marines need a new codex before anyone else!

tau and necrons need a thorough, from-the-ground-up reworking. tau especially got hit hard by fifth, and do not work in game as they do in the fluff. right now, i need to get in close and rapid fire, as thats the only way to max out my firepower. kinda sad really, when you consider they're supposed to be a keep the enemy at arms length, long range shooting type of army... warseer posts have summed it up in other threads, apparently tau are a short range firefight army, like sisters of battle. *rolls eyes*

im not gonna go into what i think tau need, but as has been said, a quick fix wont do it. Gw tried the "throw half thought out gammy gizmos, pick random stuff from forgeworld and stick it in, horrible fanwank special characters, and new auxiliaries that no one will take as they're terrible" approach as a "quick fix" approach, and it failed, miserably, utterly, completely. tau need a total reworking.

tau, essentially are a third edition codex still, with a leaking band-aid on it. sad thing is, GW seem to be terrified of the notion of powering up tau, even though the threat levels of the new codices are overwhelming. and by the way, i like the new codices, new power level, fluff to game approach and just want GW to treat tau with the same love that they gave space wolves and guard.

Poseidal
18-01-2010, 16:28
Tau Empire and Eldar were both the same year (2006).

Eldar were the next 40k release after Tau.

LonelyPath
18-01-2010, 16:31
I find when playing against Tau that they still work pretty well and there are a number of armies that need updates first. BT, DH and Crons come to mind immediately, meanwhile DE and WH also need something of a large overhaul.

Personally I also think those armies should have been updated before Nids (and I play Nids) as they are far older and have suffered the most over time (in either models, rules or both).

Tau-Lover
18-01-2010, 16:40
Necrons and DE need a new dex really bad. But as a Tau player, I would be nice if they got a new dex as soon as possible. They need more options, it's like this every time i make a list:

HQ battle suit - check
Fire warriors in devil fishs - check
Hammerheads - check
Lots o' battle suits - check

And then i just scale up so it maches the decided points.

And I would be really mad if more Marines come before Necrons, DE and Tau.

(I can't describe how much I hate Marines, and specially Smurfs. So as long new 40k dex'es is Xeno, I'll be happy :D)

chaos0xomega
18-01-2010, 16:50
Am I the only one here who existed in a dimension when the Tau got their update BEFORE the Eldar?

If anything the Eldar will be the last xenos race to get redone at this point. Tau are now the oldest 4th edition codex (xenos or otherwise IIRC), meanwhile the Necrons are still using a 3rd edition book... and I'm not even really sure if the Dark Eldar ever made it out of 2nd edition.

Eldar also had the benefit of being one of the first 40k releases to be designed to be "5th edition friendly" although 5th edition changed a lot between the eldar release and the 5th edition release.

But Tau never even had a proper 4th edition codex. The book that came out was more of a 3.5 ed than a proper 4th, it had an abbreviated development cycle and less resources dedicated to it than other releases. It was seen as a "quick fix" to get more releases in that year.

Personally, I cant wait for the new Tau codex, they were my first army and I have so much Tau stuff lying around unused (incl. forgeworld...), but I think Necrons and DEldar need it more.

Gearhead
18-01-2010, 17:32
Am I the only one here who existed in a dimension when the Tau got their update BEFORE the Eldar?


No, I remember everyone complaining about the fantasy style setup and the removal of the armoury. Seems kind of tame by todays standards of whining. And the Harliquins, oh the Harliquins. "Should I take Scorpions or Banshees?" had an answer at last. Until 5th, at least.

What really sticks out as Tau being a 3.5 dex is Pathfinders, a static unit, are Fast attack. This is an old relic from 3rd's deployment system (Heavy, Troop, Elite, HQ, Fast), which made them somewhat scouty. They could be 'fast' (kinda) if they got in their devilfish, but then they're more useless than Fire Warriors, who can at least score. I also agree with Tau lover that Tau Empire is half a codex right now.

HQ: Battlesuit commander, ethereals are 50 points of liability.
ELITE: Stealths for markerlights, Crisis for actually doing things.
TROOP: Devilfish with Fire Warriors (Some use them as DAVU), Kroot if you're a tarpitty guy.
FAST: Pathfinders for markerlights and a 'fish, Piranhas if you need more anti-tank.
HEAVY: Hammerheads, Broadsides if you need more railguns.

MrInsomniac
18-01-2010, 17:37
You're not the only one chaos0xomega, I am absolutely certain the Tau dex came out before the Eldar dex. Tau are in dire need of a new codex, not only for rules updates but for the sheer lack of options and models we have.

*edit* Ninja'd by Gearhead!

CommDante
18-01-2010, 17:50
"I'm not even really sure if the Dark Eldar ever made it out of 2nd edition."

LOL? They were introduced as a new race in the 40k beginners/starter-set of 3rd edition and didn't even exist before in fluff IIRC. Through a FAQ update they received some vehicle updates and some minor changes (which I just added with a pencil) that were re-released as a "2nd edition/printing" of the 3rd edition codex.

Personally, I can't wait for the new Tau codex either. Atm all my armies (Being: BA, DE and Tau in order of collecting) are so outdated ...
I hope a lot of the forgeworld stuff will make it in. Tetra, tx-42, xv9 mostly. But the gnarlocs would be nice to, I think. Also hope the less usefull units will get more attractive. Oh well, seeing how little GW releases in the rumour department I guess I won't buy anything soon/will start saving money for new releases.

Agnar the Howler
18-01-2010, 17:53
Tau do not need a new codex per se. They're not unplayable, far from it, they just suffer from unusable wargear and badly balanced units. Ranged troops that require ranged supremacy but are armed with rapid fire move-and-shoot-at-12" weapons and have the same shooting skill as a guardsman, for example; along with close combat units with no armour and basic combat, that are supposed to be the CC for Tau and have lots of with experience fighting Orks... I also don't get why they have no armour, but such a low initative. Orks get an I boost from FC, marine get I from genetic enhancements, Eldar get theirs from agility (even with armour!) yet Kroot are slower than the lot...

Before I go off on a huge tangent, i'm gunna say they have uses. Kroot are reasonably cheap, with okay shooting but are a great speed bump, and fire warriors are good with back up and extraction plans.

They could be better, i'm not going to disagree, but they could also be a good lot worse, in both playability and model range, and I don't think they deserve a codex more than some other races like Necrons and Daemon Hunters. I'd also prefer them to wait till 6th Ed is upon us, it's be better to be geared for 6th Ed than be stuck with 5th Ed upgrades and unit costs and be neutered by 6th Ed.

Hokiecow
18-01-2010, 18:44
Am I the only one here who existed in a dimension when the Tau got their update BEFORE the Eldar?

Eldar also had the benefit of being one of the first 40k releases to be designed to be "5th edition friendly" although 5th edition changed a lot between the eldar release and the 5th edition release.

But Tau never even had a proper 4th edition codex. The book that came out was more of a 3.5 ed than a proper 4th, it had an abbreviated development cycle and less resources dedicated to it than other releases. It was seen as a "quick fix" to get more releases in that year.

You echo many of my points.


What really sticks out as Tau being a 3.5 dex is Pathfinders, a static unit, are Fast attack. This is an old relic from 3rd's deployment system (Heavy, Troop, Elite, HQ, Fast), which made them somewhat scouty. They could be 'fast' (kinda) if they got in their devilfish, but then they're more useless than Fire Warriors, who can at least score. I also agree with Tau lover that Tau Empire is half a codex right now.
They should just make the Pathfinders and option for Firewariors. I.E. The Firewarrior have the option to take Pulse Rifles, Pulse Carbine, Marker Light, Rail Rifle and a addon that allow Devil Fish to do scout moves.

chaos0xomega
18-01-2010, 18:49
No, no rail rifles in firewarrior squads, never ever ever. And pathfinders can be useful, GW just has to give some serious thought on how to fix them (and if they can't, I have 100+ ideas that would go such a long way to making them playable)

Gearhead
18-01-2010, 18:59
It's not that they're not useful, they're just static units in a fast attack slot. Their mandatory Devilfish doesn't help them at all. If they were moved to troops, made the devilfish optional, and they either buffed FW or made Troops Pathfinders 0-1 (to prevent spamming), they'd be good.

chaos0xomega
18-01-2010, 19:10
It might be interesting if they made Pathfinders an auxiliary troops choice.

I.E. - for every squad of firewarriors you purchase, you may purchase a unit of pathfinders which countas the same troops choice on the FOC.

Deadnight
18-01-2010, 20:02
No, no rail rifles in firewarrior squads, never ever ever. And pathfinders can be useful, GW just has to give some serious thought on how to fix them (and if they can't, I have 100+ ideas that would go such a long way to making them playable)

agreed, but there could be a way around it.

get rid of sniper drone teams as a unit. terrible models, terrible concept, and just integrate rail rifle drones into the actual list like other drones.

buy a crisis suit team/FW squad. buy a drone controller with gun drones. upgrade gun drones to your shield drones/ markerlight drones/ rail rifle drones. FW teams get added firepower, but its drone based, as opposed to FW heavy weapons.

and make it so drones used by a drone controller use his BS, not their own. hey, he's controlling them, it stands to reason he is aiming them as well! im also a fan of h2 pulse rifles, and assault 2 carbines and plasma rifles :)

IcedAnimals
18-01-2010, 20:11
I love the sniper drone teams. The model and the way it actually performs in game. A slight point drop and I would never leave home without them. 240 points is a pretty heavy investment. But it does get you 9 str 6 ap 3 bs 4 (on average) shots. That pin their targets. And the unit has stealth.

noobzilla
18-01-2010, 20:38
Shouldn't it be like a 25% chance. Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Necrons, and Tau all are in the line for Xenos Codexes.

Craftworld Eldar... Nope, GW will probably never redo Craftworld Eldar. The Eldar book is more than satisfactory for GW and it will stay that way.

Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau and Inquisition would be the 4 codexes to redo.

chaos0xomega
18-01-2010, 21:03
I think by craftworld eldar he meant "eldar"

Gearhead
18-01-2010, 21:25
agreed, but there could be a way around it.
and make it so drones used by a drone controller use his BS, not their own. hey, he's controlling them, it stands to reason he is aiming them as well! im also a fan of h2 pulse rifles, and assault 2 carbines and plasma rifles :)

I really should've recognized you sooner. Nice to see another TOer.

Kensai
18-01-2010, 23:38
As mentioned by several others, one thing the Tau desperately need is greater variety in unit selection. Right now, everyone takes a commander, fire warriors, hammerheads, maybe some kroot, and lots of suits. A quick flip through the current marine dex shows 31 different unit types, irrespective of special characters and transports. The tau dex on the other hand contains only 15, three of which are variations of the crisis suit.

With a host of ideas floating around the web ranging from new suit types, new alien races, and Forgeworld models, it shouldn't be that hard for GW to come up with a few more units.

chaos0xomega
18-01-2010, 23:48
I really do expect to see a wealth of auxiliary units in a new Tau codex. In fact, its kind of silly that they renamed it "Tau Empire" but only put two units representative of the "Empire" aspect of them.

Hokiecow
19-01-2010, 01:00
No, no rail rifles in firewarrior squads, never ever ever. And pathfinders can be useful, GW just has to give some serious thought on how to fix them (and if they can't, I have 100+ ideas that would go such a long way to making them playable)

Uh!? why not? Pathfinders are Firewarriors with different weapons, just allow the player to make his/her Firewarriors into Pathfinders by equipping them. That frees up a FA slot for a new unit and makes Firewarrior more configurable and gives them the option for heavy weapons which some players have been calling for.

chaos0xomega
19-01-2010, 01:36
Because that's not the Tau's playstyle. By doing that you're basically taking the Tau basic trooper and making it like everyone elses basic trooper (but with a better gun).

They should stick to being (or attempting to be as the case currently is) the elite rifle maneuver group, with specialist weapons being kept in seperate units entirely.

AngryAngel
19-01-2010, 01:39
GW isn't exactly making books based on who deserves or needs a new book more. Though as Tau have a pretty solid model line and could well use some new model love with some buffing/changing. I think Tau will be one of the newer releases. Probably not 2012. I'd place it either around end of this year, or beginning of next year.

If I had to guess, which we all do, that would be mine.