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Kingbreaker
17-01-2010, 20:04
So I am about 90% decided to cash in my collection of MTG cards and use that to seed a WFB army. I am torn between Brets and Empire on theme (I have an MA degree in medieval history).

I am leaning Empire because I *gather* that Empire is more versatile than Brets. Also, I tend to favor defensive tactics in most battlefield games (digital and tabletop.)

Themewise, I am thinking a fairly shooty army from Ostland (simply for the color scheme) the bulk will be Xbow or guns + spears, backed up by a few cannon.

With 8th edition looming, does it make sense to postpone this until the summer or is it a good idea to paint up some state troops on the theory that they will almost certainly be usable?

xragg
17-01-2010, 20:16
Empire has been the most balanced army in terms of their troop options for the entire 15+ yrs I have been playing. While certain units may shine better then others depending on the ruleset and other army builds popular at the time, empire has always been competitive. State troops should be a safe bet to useful; detachment rules are that solid.

gorenut
17-01-2010, 20:43
Now is as fine a time as any other to start Empire. They've always been pretty balanced and endured each new rules set well. The only thing that you might want to hold off on purchasing are Knights. There's constant rumors looming about Empire getting new Knights soon.

Urgat
17-01-2010, 20:54
With 8th edition looming, does it make sense to postpone this until the summer or is it a good idea to paint up some state troops on the theory that they will almost certainly be usable?

The chances that state troops are removed in the next armybook are, well, extremely thin, I'd say.

Condottiere
17-01-2010, 21:02
I doubt that this army has been earmarked for any major changes, and you can always make incremental investments to build it up over the next six months.

Griefbringer
17-01-2010, 22:19
The chances that state troops are removed in the next armybook are, well, extremely thin, I'd say.

Other units unlikely to be removed include the Greatswords.

Kingbreaker
18-01-2010, 01:49
Other units unlikely to be removed include the Greatswords.


I think I'd cry if that happened:(

Condottiere
18-01-2010, 04:02
I think some did cry when they saw the latest incarnation.

Anything that represents late Renaissance/early Baroque units is unlikely to become obsolete.

Commodus Leitdorf
18-01-2010, 04:09
It's always a good time to start the Empire!:D

ftayl5
18-01-2010, 04:16
You could start but keep in mind that GW is making new knights (i think) so you might want to wait for them, as far as rule changes go, I'll doubt they'll be too drastic so feel free to start

Clobbersaurus
18-01-2010, 04:55
I am new to the hobby, so don't know if GW has a history of screwing over its customers. But would they really remove Greatswords less than a year after making a new model kit for them?

Archdaimon
18-01-2010, 05:18
no!
...
...

Grand Warlord
18-01-2010, 05:30
Let's hope not. And as stated before it is never a bad time to start working on an empire list ... welcome to the empire!

Vandur Last
18-01-2010, 06:29
Lets not deceive the OP with our optimism regarding State troops. The reality is that they are overpriced, fragile and almost entirely useless in combat.
Overall Empire is very weak and cannot compete against newer lists with the exception of a few powerful builds based on the Emperor on a Dragon, the War Altar and multiple Steam Tanks.
Such a list doesnt appeal to me visually and thematically, but others may have differing views.

Lordsaradain
18-01-2010, 06:57
It's always a good time to start the Empire!:D

Seconded! :D

Razakel
18-01-2010, 07:01
I agree with most of the other comments here, Empire have the most diverse selection of troops and they can do pretty much anything, you can bend the army whatever way you want. If your still somewhat undecided on Empire and want to get a decent look at Bretonnian's then heres a link to a thread where Once Bitten does a lot of Youtube Battle Reports.

He actually plays Empire a few times (scroll down), so it could let you see if you'd like that particular Empire army. Best of luck, whatever you choose.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195603

RGB
18-01-2010, 07:23
It's always a good time to start Empire, if for following reasons:

1. Their model range. Although 7th ed. state troops are a dubious improvement over 6th ed. state troops, Empire has a very varied and good-looking range, and always had one. Most models from 5th to current editions still look good on the field.

2. Background and variety. It has very rich background and enormous possibilities for making unusual units that fit the fluff nonetheless, especially considering their past options (halflings, ogres, dwarfs, mercenaries, reiksguard armies, kislevites, border princes...)

3. An ability to bring a completely different army every day. Empire has a bit of everything, and you CAN build any kind of army. Whether you can expect it to perform reasonably in the current gaming environment depends on what people consider acceptable where you play.

If you're looking for a really winning army, now is not the time, however. There are other armies that have similar flexibility but are more suited to the game, being newer lists.

Kingbreaker
18-01-2010, 13:21
I'm not in it for tournaments. . . .

And if I were, I'd probably choose DE as the first evil army.

Grapeshot
18-01-2010, 16:07
There's constant rumors looming about Empire getting new Knights soon.
I certainly hope so :) Just made a big purchase of Empire minis but left out the Knights as I don't really like the current models.

The latest models really got me into Empire. Me just ordered boxes of state troops, handgunners, cannon, steam tank(!), greatswords, Valten and madman Marius! Apparantly I want them to be Averlanders. I like the sun state banner. Also ordered the warrior priest from AOW. Exciting :D

Next step would be the flagellants, helstorm and a captain.

The catch is it will take me years to paint all of these...

As to answer the original question, yes! It's a good time to start Empire as the minis are new and nice.

gorenut
18-01-2010, 16:42
Hah, I guess this is where I'm reminded.. even though any time is a good time to start Empire, when the 7th edition were first released.. was arguably a better time to start. When I was flirting with the idea of an Empire army, GW had a splash release (they did so with Orcs too) of State Troop boxes that included 20 melee and 10 ranged troops for $40 US (atleast in my area). Compare that to $22 for 10! Now I kinda wish I kept them.


I certainly hope so :) Just made a big purchase of Empire minis but left out the Knights as I don't really like the current models.

The latest models really got me into Empire. Me just ordered boxes of state troops, handgunners, cannon, steam tank(!), greatswords, Valten and madman Marius! Apparantly I want them to be Averlanders. I like the sun state banner. Also ordered the warrior priest from AOW. Exciting :D

Next step would be the flagellants, helstorm and a captain.

The catch is it will take me years to paint all of these...

As to answer the original question, yes! It's a good time to start Empire as the minis are new and nice.

Thetyler
18-01-2010, 21:55
I started a Empire army a few months ago... Now i have a solid fully painted 2500 points of them... They are any amazing army with so much choice and also a wide range of colour schemes

Happy Hammering!

soots
18-01-2010, 22:04
It was better 10 years ago when it wasnt as expensive :p

O&G'sRule
18-01-2010, 22:37
Empire are always a good idea. Fun to play for both sides and a huge variety of options. I can't see 8th ed changing them much, their book isn't likely to get the once over for a while I wouldn't have thought and they never get anything radical done to them, there's no need. 8th ed won't affect them anymore than anyone else, though the box might have some nice new things for them

Rogue
19-01-2010, 02:58
If they drastically change much from what they are right now, then I would recommend that you start talking to those obsolete Flagellents and ask them when the end of the Warhammer World is coming. If the Flagellents start talking back to you get ready for the end of our world. (or go to rehab:shifty:)

All kidding aside I would be very confident that they will stay the same. They have been virtually the same since the 4th edition, about 18 years ago. I dont see them changing that much. You may have some changes as to how troops are used but I doubt anything that would fundimentally change the army for you.

Clobbersaurus
19-01-2010, 06:18
I found that detachment box at a hobby shop, and it was marked down 25%. I think I paid $30 for 20 State Troops and 10 gunners/crossbows.

igotsmeakabob!!
01-02-2010, 20:19
I have just started Empire (and Fantasy in general) as well, although the amount that I have to buy has been radically reduced... my friend has had an Empire army from 5th or 6th, assembled but unpainted, that he's generously gifted to the cause. I have more than a solid core... which is good, because I'd like to wait for any new models to release this summer (that's the rumored release for 8th edition right?).

DeadElektrik
01-02-2010, 20:48
To the original poster's question, I sure hope so. I too am planning on starting an Empire army in the next little while. I've got a pretty large Skaven army at the moment, fully painted and all that, and I feel the urge to start another project.

I think at the moment that there's never been a better time to start collecting the Empire. They have an incredible selection of great plastic kits and are sure to be getting more, and are more or less the most well-supported Fantasy army available. As many have said here already, Empire are always a good choice, and tend to become a bit of an obsession to many who start them.

tezdal
02-02-2010, 10:07
It was better 10 years ago when it wasnt as expensive :p


And the state troops had shoes!

PeG
02-02-2010, 10:34
state troops disappearing in next ed seems highly unlikely but what will most likely change is the rules for the different weapons can have. Therefore build the weapons you think looks good and not only the ones that are currently the best ones (swordsmen) since some of the other options are likely to get improved with 8th ed.

The Red Scourge
02-02-2010, 10:56
Both brets and empire are great armies - especially when you remember to use peasants in your brets.

And don't let the competitive crowd get you down, Warhammer is notorious for its lack of balance and constant rules changes. Don't whine about it, enjoy it instead, and get a gaming group unafraid of making house rules and adapting the game to match your playstyle.

I doubt empire would change much in an 8th ed. incarnation, they've been reduced to a bare minimum, so any changes, would probably just revive 'lost' unit choices :)

Condottiere
02-02-2010, 11:03
And the state troops had shoes!Maybe in the next edition, you can knock off half a point per shoeless state trooper miniature.

tezdal
02-02-2010, 11:55
At the end of every turn he rolls on the "ringworm" table

Volker the Mad Fiddler
02-02-2010, 23:48
SNIP

All kidding aside I would be very confident that they will stay the same. They have been virtually the same since the 4th edition, about 18 years ago. I dont see them changing that much. You may have some changes as to how troops are used but I doubt anything that would fundimentally change the army for you.

Tell that to my 3 units of Halfling archers, halfling hot pot and 2000 points of Kislevite troops.
I still love the Empire, just don't enjoy the fact that core infantry are a liability in the current gaming environment.

Laughingmonk
03-02-2010, 05:03
It's always a good time to start Empire.

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 06:19
I think I'd cry if that happened:(

Don't worry, great swords have small penises, they can't afford to swing it around.

Skyros
03-02-2010, 15:43
This is a terrible time to start empire, unless you want to run an army of steam tanks and war altars.

-The 7th edition state troops are the worst yet - ugly models IMO.
-8th edition is rumored to give us new knight sprues - may as well wait for those to make your knight units
-In 7th edition, basic core infantry are garbage.

In fact, I'd say this is a bad time to start fantasy in general, as it is very poorly balanced.

Travinicus_Lector
04-02-2010, 10:44
I've recently purchased a shooty 2500 pt. empire army and i've loved it so far... painting humans was hard for me at first, but its gotten progressively easier.
Get a steam tank!

Kingbreaker
17-02-2010, 01:52
Just to update everybody, if you care.

I bought the bullet and started up an empire army.

My first attempt was a humble box of 10 state troops. two of the troops got eaten by overly thick hand-applied gesso priming. The rest got turned into 5 spears + command group.

I finished a full group of 10 handgunners last week, which was satisfying. At the moment I'm about 50% through painting more state troops - this time, swordsmen. After that, I have the rest of a battalion box to get through - I saved the flashier models for later.

My color scheme is black, blue, and white. The theme is the personal army of a spoiled Lector (or other religious figure) who likes to show off his troop's fancy uniforms. I'm planning on painting the knight's barding a combo of metallic blue and black, quartered.

The army list - for the time being, I'm avoiding the stank. . . it just looks a bit too cartoony and goofy. The rest will be a block of state troops, a block of GS, the handgunners, 2x cannon, and rounded out with vanilla knights.

Now I just have to figure out how to play the game. . .


Thanks for the encouragement!