PDA

View Full Version : Another meta-game shift?



daboarder
02-02-2010, 05:31
So i've been keeping track of the new Tyranid battle reports because I am currently on vacation and have been unable to play any games with them, and I wanted to draw your attention to something.

It seems to me that the Nid's are winning the vast majority of their games, except when they come up against the sister's. Now this would suggest to me that the little bugs are pulling more of their weight in the list than they previously did. so I'm wondering if this will lead to a shift in the meta-game to more flamers in order to handle the vast swarms of the Great Devourer.

Just to make it clear I think the new codex is a pretty poor one but that is more of a background/marketing strategy stance than a competetive one.

So what are my fellow gamer's thoughts on the matter?

The Marshel
02-02-2010, 05:35
yet to play nids or see them in serious action, but id say its more a matter of the new codex being "new". It takes longer to adapt to a new opposing codex then it does to adapt to a new codex as a player of that army. given a month or two, people will begin to work it all out and the nids will fall back in line

Vineas
02-02-2010, 05:41
I think with only the Tyrant able to get a 2+ save and Warriors dying to s8+ now we'll see more ML's being taken and less MM and Las being spammed.

Stealers dying to regular flamers and bolters now with no chance to save will force people to reconsider taking tacticals for the stealer killing firepower they can lay down and not just a necessary evil anymore.

So I think the meta will change somewhat but that can only be a good thing, right?

shabbadoo
02-02-2010, 08:02
There is no shift in the meta-game to flamers; at least for smart folks who have always used them. Flamers work great against any army, but they do work particularly good against any army with a 5+ or worse armor save. Still, the game does not revolve around the use of one weapon type. Anything with a blast template will also do well, and from range. Anything that forces lots of saves will do well. This same topic came up when the latest Ork codex came out by the way. Lots of flamers doesn't equal auto-win against Orks either(but it helps ;)). You will beat Orks most often by beating them in close combat. With Tyranids this is not the case. It is great how that works.

That you think that the new Tyranid codex is not competitive, and yet Tyranid players are seemingly laying waste to their opponents more often than not sort of says that your opinion is either completely wrong, or that it is everybody else who is not smart enough to figure out how to beat the new Tyranids. Perhaps it is time to revise your opinion. ;)

WinglessVT2
02-02-2010, 08:33
The shift is that if you don't have a lot of quality attacks, you need to be mounted when engaging tyranids.
Not many battle reports feature fully mounted armies, or foot-armies that have cheap quality elements, such as mass grey hunters, or lots of power armor wolfguard.

the1stpip
02-02-2010, 09:38
IMO, the tactics involving the Nids codex havent changed that much.

Played my first game against them at the weekend (admittedly against a new player) and mullered them. He had one Stealer left at the end of the game, but then I think its because I know how to deal with MCs (Dark Lance spam and Wyches).

Lamoron
02-02-2010, 09:53
Most games here the Tyranids go *kaSQUISH* under the tracks of anything mechanized, and pretty much just devour things that aren't...

TheShadowCow
02-02-2010, 10:59
I suspect that we'll see even more "mandatory anti-psychic tech" featured in My Competative Build (TM) to cope with the fearsome things the Tyranids can do with their minds now.

A greater number of Missile Launcher (and equivalent) weapons would be interesting, though given that they are of an uncertain place in the usual mech-list I don't think it will be that extreme.

Too early to call much more than that, because we've only been playing the book for 2-3 weeks.

Fixer
02-02-2010, 11:05
I've played a couple of games against the new Nids with my Salamanders.

Tyranids basically come off as Orks with less toughness, a less threatening charge, no hidden powerklaws the drawback of synapse and generally less numerous due to the expense of MCs. The threat of floating brains that can really mess up your landraiders though.

Pretty much any force that's built to deal with orks and have the heavy hitters to deal with their Nob Bikers will have all the tools they need to murder Tyranids. So there's going to be no real shift in metagame with the new bugs on the board.

Helicon_One
02-02-2010, 11:11
It seems to me that the Nid's are winning the vast majority of their games, except when they come up against the sister's.

Sisters have always been an optimal choice for mowing down hordes of light infantry with cheap BS4 bolter infantry and access to a ton of flamers, and combined with the ability to Divine Guidance the lareger creatures to death this isn't surprising.

commander of the marines
02-02-2010, 12:35
I'm not that impressed with the new nids,
Yust like the sisters the guard got a lot of anti horde even more than sisters (3 specials for each veteran squad in a chimera with a heavy flamer and multi laser and vendettas with artilery) and have enough other weapons to kill MC.

I played a few times against the new nids and in the first turn my opponent losses about 1/4 of his army and by turn 5 he's either wiped out or nearly wiped out whatever he takes a lot of MC or little bugs.

Hellgore
02-02-2010, 14:14
Had my first game against new nids in a 2000pts-tourney this weekend.
Won a two objective/victory points-Mission by over 600 points (objectives were worth 1000pts) with my SM list.
It's hard to get rid of those regenerating, fnp-tervigons and those two I faced produced each 11 gaunts at the average each turn until turn 3/4. Quite a lot of gaunts to need to get rid of, but some easy extra victory points. ;)

Another nids-player I didn't face won that tourney with quite impressing scores. But I had my allcomers list that won against another SM and a SW-List. So, no - no change in "meta"game for me. I always had flamers and multimeltas since the introduction of 5th ed. I am fully meched up. That's what marines should do anyways.
I think nids got a good new dex but the overall countermeasures for their enemies didn't change that much. I won't take ML now, my MM do the same job and can ruin meched forces better.

But: I hate those landing spores. Man, shooting the turn they land can really mess up your day... :) But hey, everybody has to adapt his tactics to his foe.

fluffstalker
02-02-2010, 14:17
No. Nids are not making the splash IG or Orks did. Like Fixer said - other than the MCs, which are mostly overcosted to sell the new shiny toy sets (Trygon), the nids are basically orks with less punch. Players who are doing well in tournaments right now will not have to adapt too much to beat Nids.

Grax
02-02-2010, 19:24
I've fought Nids twice recently, using two different armies, and I've found them to be quite formidable. They're better balanced, they have drop pods (of a sort), their troops are a lot cheaper, and their monstrous creatures are much better in close combat than they used to me. They've shifted from nidzilla to a more balanced army.

That said, there is a good argument for them being similar to Orks. Indeed, they're probably more similar to them then any other army. Their susceptibility to instant death, general lack of anti-armor shooting (besides a few key units), and cheap all purpose troops backed up by heavy hitters (for Orks the pk nobz, for Nids the monstrous creatures) is quite similar.

The main differences, aside from MC vs Armor, is that the Nids are more versatile, with more special rules and abilities, and Orks are faster, with fast vehicles and bikes.

With the exception of Marines and their sub-chapters, I'd say that Nids and Orks are probably more similar to each other than any other two armies in the game.

azimaith
02-02-2010, 19:26
I haven't seen a huge metagame shift here. Thats mostly because what works against many other armies works fine against nids. They don't typically require any really special gear to handle. I don't typically see too many small nids, smallest usually being genestealers. Gaunts are still very iffy depending on what the local metagame is.

I do notice slightly more missile launchers than before, which I assume has something to do with 6 wounds MCs like Trygons and Tervigons. (Not to mention some weapon versatility too.)

SPYDER68
02-02-2010, 20:37
best thing about the new nids.. its so easy to adapt to the new metagame..

People are taking alot of anti tank.. i can take alot of small bugs and have a very effective list.

People start taking alot of flamers and anti infantry, i swap in more big bugs...

As for normal metagame though ? Ive yet to see much of a change.

azimaith
02-02-2010, 20:39
This is true, you only need one loss (or perhaps a trouncing) to swap your entire army from stompy to swarmy. Oh and a lot of models but thats a given to tyranids. If you find yourself so inclined you can easily shift between the two.