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snurl
03-02-2010, 06:34
I was looking at my Deathroller today and started thinking about tunnel combat and if the Dwarves would push their mining equipment into service in the heat of a battle. I have heard of Dwarven steam driven tractors before, (Grudgebearer) so why not a tank? Maybe not with a cannon but instead with a large mining flail that might do impact hits?

What do you think?

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 06:40
Yes! And elves should have las cannons!

scipunk
03-02-2010, 06:46
I voted maybe....I really like the idea but how would this be implemented in the Warhammer world? I say this because the steam tank took so many tinkering before it became a somewhat of a stable model to use and face against.

But can you imagine the destruction it can bring......a gun line with additional support from below for those too scared to move into the range of fire:p

Razakel
03-02-2010, 06:51
No, the current Tarpit / Anchor units the Dwarfs have already need to be made reliable. Rangers / Slayers / Miners / Gyrocopters.

tezdal
03-02-2010, 06:56
Meh NO, in fact the Empire shouldn't have steam tanks either, stupid looking models and idea.

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 07:20
Tanks are for girls, we boys play with swords.

tezdal
03-02-2010, 07:22
Exactly, just cause you lost your Squat's dosn't mean you have to Squatify my Dwarves.

phoenixguard09
03-02-2010, 07:27
Then we could have moments like this on our battlefields :)

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 07:39
Then we could have moments like this on our battlefields :)

*throws sword away and surrenders*

CaptScott
03-02-2010, 07:47
hmmm.... will GW give dwarves a big gribly thing....

Hicks
03-02-2010, 07:54
I do agree that Dwarfs could really use some big model, right now there is just not that much diversity modelwise in the army. There is the gyrocopter, but it's not exactly something that's feared like the steamtank, dragons and other big monsters.

A tank is a nice idea, but I don't know if it fits with the "new technology is bad" point of view the vast majority of Dwarfs have. Of course, GW is never afraid to retcon it's own fluff and in the next book we may very well learn that the Dwarfs have been using tanks for centuries.

Something that looks like a small fortress on wheels would sure look cool, but I wouldn't want it to look like a an actual tank.

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 08:03
I am thinking of 3 dwarves driving a walking stone robot/mamoth with the power of the ancestors, shooting rockets and throwing axes. Then again I can see gnomes, flowers and dog poo.

zeebie
03-02-2010, 08:06
A tank with a large steam drill on it, now that would be a nice model. that way it could be a fluffed into being used in the mines. In close combat it could wreck havok

wizbix
03-02-2010, 08:12
I do agree that Dwarfs could really use some big model, right now there is just not that much diversity modelwise in the army.



Dwarfs don't need a large monster or anything like that, they rely on shield walls and Dwarf muscle. Thats the attraction of the Dwarf army. If people want the latest in cheese wiffing monster release then they obviously need to collect an army that has them. Oh and one tank is enough in the Warhammer world and this "new technology" is definetly against Dwarf fluff no matter how 'cool' we could imagine the final model to be.

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 08:15
Dwarfs don't need a large monster or anything like that, they rely on shield walls and Dwarf muscle. Thats the attraction of the Dwarf army.

Now thats an idea for a conversion, New minotuar bodies with dwarves head!

hawo0313
03-02-2010, 08:17
Well dwares are kind of ingenious with thier engineering (not like the skaven but yeah) anyway perhaps they should have some kind of contraption like the gyrocopter but cc style perhaps a walker a dwarven dreadnaught powered by steam or something. silly Idea I know but hey its just something I think could be cool and fun

wizbix
03-02-2010, 08:22
Well dwares are kind of ingenious with thier engineering (not like the skaven but yeah) anyway perhaps they should have some kind of contraption like the gyrocopter but cc style perhaps a walker a dwarven dreadnaught powered by steam or something. silly Idea I know but hey its just something I think could be cool and fun

If we want Dreadnaughts in our armies then we'd play 40k. Dear Grungni save us from these fools! :p;):)

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 08:27
If we want Dreadnaughts in our armies then we'd play 40k. Dear Grungni save us from these fools! :p;):)

But you can never get a dwarf in a dreadnaught if you play 40k, you ge squats...buts the nids ate them....so....

Dungeon_Lawyer
03-02-2010, 09:05
A tank with a large steam drill on it, now that would be a nice model. that way it could be a fluffed into being used in the mines. In close combat it could wreck havok

something like a mount for an engineer, ala A SKINK PRIEST and EOTG

tezdal
03-02-2010, 09:09
Why stop at tanks and walker/dreadnoughts? Dwarf titans! Whose the stumpy one now fools! *pow* *pow* *crunch*.

snurl
03-02-2010, 09:18
Yes, something like a mount for an engineer is right where I was thinking of going with this. In fact, a crew of engineer - miner types would be spot on.
I'm visualizing a wagon shaped vehicle with an armored deck where about six dwarves could stand in cover and fire handguns. Another dwarf would sit at the front in a drivers cupola. There would be a large spinning spikey wheel on the front similar to the example picture which would do impact hits on contact with the enemy (or his fortifications). The thing would have a steam engine, maybe centrally located in the fighting platform. I believe wheels would be proper for this, caterpillar cleats are still a long way from being invented.

Condottiere
03-02-2010, 09:31
Is there even a hint in the fluff that the Dwarves have worked on a design? Because without one, you'll need to move the timeline a couple of centuries forward before they can field it.

ChaosVC
03-02-2010, 09:39
Yes, something like a mount for an engineer is right where I was thinking of going with this. In fact, a crew of engineer - miner types would be spot on.
I'm visualizing a wagon shaped vehicle with an armored deck where about six dwarves could stand in cover and fire handguns. Another dwarf would sit at the front in a drivers cupola. There would be a large spinning spikey wheel on the front similar to the example picture which would do impact hits on contact with the enemy (or his fortifications). The thing would have a steam engine, maybe centrally located in the fighting platform. I believe wheels would be proper for this, caterpillar cleats are still a long way from being invented.

Actually that sounds like a good conversion, the old 6th ed steam tank rules have some rather neat rules for the kind of set up you just mentioned. If you have an empire army, you can consider making a steam tank with dwarf crew for your army.

snurl
03-02-2010, 09:43
Is there even a hint in the fluff that the Dwarves have worked on a design? Because without one, you'll need to move the timeline a couple of centuries forward before they can field it.

Yes, in Grudgebearer, when the dwarf army left their hold to go to war they were towing their supplies with a steam tractor. Later, when they got to the Moot, their supply train was nearly devastated by pilfering halflings.

snurl
03-02-2010, 09:46
Actually that sounds like a good conversion, the old 6th ed steam tank rules have some rather neat rules for the kind of set up you just mentioned. If you have an empire army, you can consider making a steam tank with dwarf crew for your army.

Yes, I know the model that you mean, and it's close, but I am thinking of a more properly built Dwarf-made version, no flimsy Empire construction here.

Barry "the blade"
03-02-2010, 09:53
I voted yes, but really I'm thinking more along the lines of a steam chariot than a tank. Anything to promote a change in the way dwarves are played. I would like to do an army of them, but as they are now it seems you don't really get much out of two of the phases of the game.

As it is now gun lines seem to be the only way to play dwarves effectively, and that play style doesn't appeal to me much. However a few tweaks to the movement phase, and some cool support pieces for the infantry blocks, and I would love to run a dwarf army on the march to settle a old debt.

Barry "the blade"
03-02-2010, 09:56
I voted yes, but really I'm thinking more along the lines of a steam chariot than a tank. Anything to promote a change in the way dwarves are played. I would like to do an army of them, but as they are now it seems you don't really get much out of two of the phases of the game.

As it is now gun lines seem to be the only way to play dwarves effectively, and that play style doesn't appeal to me much. However a few tweaks to the movement phase, and some cool support pieces for the infantry blocks, and I would love to run a dwarf army on the march to settle a old debt.

RGB
03-02-2010, 21:30
I like the idea of dwarven chariots driven by steam, actually, if not a tank per se.

Zaonite
03-02-2010, 23:34
two words; CLOCKWORK DRAGON!

Hannimar
03-02-2010, 23:41
Oh God... please no... stop the MonsterHammer madness already... 'The power of christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!' :shifty:

Unless Makaisson is in the tank and it's called 'Immovable', I'll have to say no!

Volker the Mad Fiddler
03-02-2010, 23:51
No, and the Empire shouldn't either.

tezdal
04-02-2010, 00:06
two words; CLOCKWORK DRAGON!


^ I like how Zaonite thinks.

Schmapdi
04-02-2010, 00:11
Not necessarily a tank per say, but some sort of steam powered mechanical death dealing device certainly makes sense. (Much more so than for the Empire at any rate).

Stronginthearm
04-02-2010, 01:05
YEs they should have tanks but it does present a problem,

Dwarves: Being invaded from the east by legions over the mountains, very disiplned(yahhhhh) fighting force unwilling to surrender, holding grudges against those who are keeping them down and divided, want to unite their people, and now tanks? does anybody see Nazi germany here? plus the organ gun looks remarkably similar to the nebelwerfer

Yes we want tanks but the bad jokes just write themselves

ChaosVC
04-02-2010, 01:14
Yes, I know the model that you mean, and it's close, but I am thinking of a more properly built Dwarf-made version, no flimsy Empire construction here.

You can always get the plastic stank to use as a basis to your AWESOME FIRST CLASS DWARVEN MASTER PIECE.

Can't go wrong from there unless you got skaven workmanship.:rolleyes:

chase14101
04-02-2010, 02:32
ugh stop with the technology..its fantasy not 40k..i want swords and magic, not guns and tanks. I like the idea of the anvil of doom, either give another variation of that, or perhaps a creature from the abyss if your looking for BIG....just my 2 cents

LaughinGremlin
04-02-2010, 03:52
Too
Much
Steam
Punk!
That mechanical horse for Empire is rediculous!
I'd prefer a zeppelin-style airship for dwarfs if they HAD to have something like this, because it's more believable, but it would be strange to always have it low to the ground for game purposes... I'm not sure how the rules for it would work.

Eric.Miller
04-02-2010, 03:52
1.) Give the Anvil of Doom wheels again, like this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/10275509_2e750a1fe1.jpg
(but better)

2.) Make a Throne of Power style thing a basic mount upgrade

Done and done. No tanks necessary.

ChaosVC
04-02-2010, 03:58
1.) Give the Anvil of Doom wheels again, like this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/10275509_2e750a1fe1.jpg
(but better)

2.) Make a Throne of Power style thing a basic mount upgrade

Done and done. No tanks necessary.

That particular anvil now rest beneath my Hellcannon, it is part of my hellcannon! MWahahahahah! It wheels, forever lost in the warp of chaos...and may reappear as a Warshrine.

Dark_Knight
04-02-2010, 06:31
The king of the Dwarves laughed at Leonardo Magialiano's design for the Steam Tank. The Dwarves apparently have something better and I think they can put an egg in their boot and beat it! No tanks for Dwarves!

Sylass
04-02-2010, 10:15
Empire already got a tank, I'd vote for something different for Dwarfs.

N1AK
04-02-2010, 13:07
I'd quite like to see a couple of combat orientated warhmachines when Dwarves get re-done. At the moment combat Dwarf options are all so similiar, it'd be nice to take a couple of units that mix things up.

Lord Khabal
04-02-2010, 13:29
Well, if there will be dreadnoughts, it will probably be chaos Dwarfs. Tanks are covered by the empire. Helicopters on the other hand are the dwarf thing, so the next big thing for the dwarfs is:

http://www.ahashare.com/uploads/images/283020.jpg

Condottiere
04-02-2010, 13:35
Exactly where is that link supposed to lead?

The SkaerKrow
04-02-2010, 13:42
I'm a proponent of Dwarfs receiving some sort of steam-powered chariot or wagon. Then again, I'm also a proponent of the Gyrocopter getting weapon options. Dwarfs are currently one of the most one-dimensional armies in Warhammer. It would behoove GW to add some variety to the book (even if Dwarf Longbeards choose to ignore these new units).

ewar
04-02-2010, 13:59
Dwarfs definitely don't need a tank.

However an airship would be fantastic - lovely plastic kit using the valkyrie flying base and with similar rules to the old Empire war wagon i.e. a crew of normal troops shooting out and dropping rocks on people.

My first instinct is to make it immune to attacks in close combat i.e. it doesn't land to fight, but then it will be op'd against some armies without shooting or magic. Either way, I think it would make for a fantastic centrepiece to the army and would add some powerful mobility to the list.

Leogun_91
04-02-2010, 15:59
Empire already got a tank, I'd vote for something different for Dwarfs.Yeah. Maybe something like a helicopter. Would fit better with the mountain theme as well.:)

However an airship would be fantastic - lovely plastic kit using the valkyrie flying base and with similar rules to the old Empire war wagon i.e. a crew of normal troops shooting out and dropping rocks on people.

My first instinct is to make it immune to attacks in close combat i.e. it doesn't land to fight, but then it will be op'd against some armies without shooting or magic. Either way, I think it would make for a fantastic centrepiece to the army and would add some powerful mobility to the list.Well gyrocopters doesn't land and just hovers close to the ground. The same could be the case of the airship.

ewar
04-02-2010, 17:26
True - I just like the idea of using the new flying stand. It would make for a fantastic model, the airship high above the ground with a gondola underneath full of dwarfs with guns.

I can understand why it should be attackable in cc though :)

Also, how fast would it move? 20" seems a bit quick for a zeppelin. Then again has anyone seen the 3DMark PC benchmarking software? The 2006 version has a similar thing to what I'm thinking of - a flying galleon with rows of cannon down each side. Now that would be awesome. Flying forward to give a bloodthirster a full broadside in your flying ship - it'd make me start my dwarf army up again I think!

Condottiere
04-02-2010, 17:33
The airship does bring some conflicts, for example, would it trigger Fanatics, and could they leap high enough to take it out (though hatred will help)?

Archdaimon
04-02-2010, 17:56
Whats with all this steampunk creeping into warhammer?

If dwarves should have anything resembling a monster it should be a golem!

Steamhorses for empire? Pdigeon bombs? grenadelaunchers?! come on, it is all to skavenish...

Leogun_91
04-02-2010, 19:04
Whats with all this steampunk creeping into warhammer?

If dwarves should have anything resembling a monster it should be a golem!Golem!?....A Golem?! That sounds awfully close to magic you kruti. We don't make dead things like corpses, stone or trees to live as necromancers and elfs. For thousands of years we have been without this magical watsnot and we won't start using it now.
Now airships I've heard some engineers tinkering with, course it would be better if they stayed on the ground but they could produce one or two and see how they stand the test of time, and in a few hundred years I might even take a ride myself, if they swear on their ancestors beards that it is stable ofcourse, can't be too careful with new technology.


Steamhorses for empire? Pdigeon bombs? grenadelaunchers?! come on, it is all to skavenish... The empire doesn't belive the skaven exist. Hence they belive they have to invent all this stuff to fill the steampunk theme in warhammer.

wizbix
04-02-2010, 19:25
All the Dwarf's need is a disclaimer on page one of the army book in big letters stating that people who want large monsters or do not want an army based soley on infantry should look else where. :p

Lord Malorne
04-02-2010, 19:35
I would love if dwarves went clockwork, clockwork ogres, dragons... :D.

Midevil216
04-02-2010, 19:46
I don't think any army should have a tank, this is FANTASY - not 40k.

MegaPope
04-02-2010, 19:51
I don't normally post to the WFB threads, but I thought everyone might like to see this little gem from the late '80s:

http://www.groettum.net/dwarfen/TA2index1.htm

Be sure to check link at the bottom of the articles to see the painted and converted one from WD117.

Examples occasionally turn up on eBay, but they're as rare as rocking horse dung and command silly money from collectors.

zeebie
04-02-2010, 20:19
Golem!?....A Golem?! That sounds awfully close to magic you kruti. We don't make dead things like corpses, stone or trees to live as necromancers and elfs. For thousands of years we have been without this magical watsnot and we won't start using it now.


Dwarf don't use runes?, I'm sure that the anvil sounds very magical to me. I would love to see a stone golem, it wouldn't be that hard to work into fluff, just have a runesmith discover or discover a rune of awakening or something, it could even need a runesmith to control it

Midevil216
04-02-2010, 20:23
Save the Golems for the Chaos Dwarfs :)

Freak Ona Leash
04-02-2010, 20:27
Nah, let Empire keep the Steam Tank.

I vote Dwarfs get something to increase their current strengths, ie. INFANTRY. Always marching is a godsend, don't get me wrong; however, I feel as if the lack of movement keeps them from doing as well as other armies when played aggresively (without an Anvil of Cheati-ahem, Doom.)

Perhaps introducing "formations" to Dwarfs to represent their discipline. Shieldwall, for example, would emphasize Dwarfen stability and stalwart tendencies by granting a -1 to hit them in close combat. The trade-off would be that they cannot charge or pursue if they are in a shieldwall.

That's just an example (from Warhammer Ancient Battles actually) but something like that would greatly spruce up the Dwarfs. There would be other ones obviously, maybe one like the (supposed) Viking tactic called "Swine-array" or the "boar's snout." A little iffy on the historical side, no doubt, but it is basically a wedge shaped formation that would function in-game similar to an infantry-based version of the Bret's Lance formation.

I don't really know, I'm not a game designer. But anything to make Dwarf infantry more interesting to play!

shadowskale
04-02-2010, 20:32
Dwarfs are more suited to a steam tank, than empire tbh.

Rogue
04-02-2010, 20:36
Meh NO, in fact the Empire shouldn't have steam tanks either, stupid looking models and idea.

Hit the nail on the head right here. It is a valid question since The Empire has a tank, but I am saying absolutely not. This is supposed to be FANTASY, and tanks are not in the fantasy setting. If you really want tanks, go and play 40K and leave us alone.

I am warming up to those other "fixes" that people want for the dwarves, including calvary and M4 since I have read the 3rd edition books and saw that they had calvary back then, and M3 was more of a deal that Dwarves got due to the armour reductions back then. However, having a tank for dwarves is where I draw the line.

Rogue
04-02-2010, 20:40
Nah, let Empire keep the Steam Tank.

I vote Dwarfs get something to increase their current strengths, ie. INFANTRY. Always marching is a godsend, don't get me wrong; however, I feel as if the lack of movement keeps them from doing as well as other armies when played aggresively (without an Anvil of Cheati-ahem, Doom.)

Perhaps introducing "formations" to Dwarfs to represent their discipline. Shieldwall, for example, would emphasize Dwarfen stability and stalwart tendencies by granting a -1 to hit them in close combat. The trade-off would be that they cannot charge or pursue if they are in a shieldwall.

That's just an example (from Warhammer Ancient Battles actually) but something like that would greatly spruce up the Dwarfs. There would be other ones obviously, maybe one like the (supposed) Viking tactic called "Swine-array" or the "boar's snout." A little iffy on the historical side, no doubt, but it is basically a wedge shaped formation that would function in-game similar to an infantry-based version of the Bret's Lance formation.

I don't really know, I'm not a game designer. But anything to make Dwarf infantry more interesting to play!

I really do like a lot of the ideas that WAB has brought to the game and I hope that the game designers start using some of these ideas in fantasy. They make a lot more sense to me than half of their rules that they use. However I am not holding my breath on this.

Malorian
04-02-2010, 20:42
Is it possible with the fluff?: yes

Would it be good for the game?: no

scarletsquig
04-02-2010, 20:56
I can see this happening.

To extrapolate the current trend, by the time the dwarf book is released it will have 4 new entries in the rare section, all really overpowered and none with any models available or easy conversion options possible.

By 8th edition, skaven armies with 2 wind-up rat toys "counts as" abominations will be facing off dwarf armies with 2 gundam robots standing in for their new Rune Golem that shoots lasers from it's eyes.

The Dwarf player will complain that the wind-up rat keeps moving an extra inch on it's own every now and then, as the Skaven player complains about the Gundam's height allowing it to shoot it's rune beams over forests.

Beastmen players are already stocking up on those springy snakes in a can to use as jabberslythes.

Condottiere
04-02-2010, 23:01
I think the only reason the Stank is tolerable is because of it's conception is based on da Vinci's drawings. The Robot Horse doesn't fit in with the Renaissance.

Malorian
04-02-2010, 23:06
I think the only reason the Stank is tolerable is because of it's conception is based on da Vinci's drawings. The Robot Horse doesn't fit in with the Renaissance.

I liked the robot horse :angel:

Unfortunately, rules-wise, it was a pile of suck :cries:

Condottiere
04-02-2010, 23:09
It's too 80ish cartoony.

Commodus Leitdorf
04-02-2010, 23:52
I liked the robot horse :angel:

Unfortunately, rules-wise, it was a pile of suck :cries:

It wouldn't be so bad if it could be taken as a mount for a Grand Master, or even an Empire General/Captain. Right now it's just an expensive ount for a guy you really dont' want to spend point on in your army (except me of course...I like to take weird things to tournaments to experiment!:angel:)

Dwarfs havng a tank....no. I dont see it.

Deathrollers however...usefull to crush enemies in tight passages...like those found in the dwarvern tunnels:evilgrin:. A regiment of Ogres sized Deathrollers could be useful as a fast option to a Dwarvern force without giving them a crazy big monster...while at the same time addressing the whole slow Dwarf problem.

Stronginthearm
05-02-2010, 00:05
Deathrollers however...usefull to crush enemies in tight passages...like those found in the dwarvern tunnels:evilgrin:. A regiment of Ogres sized Deathrollers could be useful as a fast option to a Dwarvern force without giving them a crazy big monster...while at the same time addressing the whole slow Dwarf problem.

Totally can see this:D, its used in one of R. A. Salvatore's books but in there they call it the "Juicer":evilgrin:

Mjameshayter
05-02-2010, 01:34
I was talking to a friend in games workshop the other day and we came up with the idea of dwarven stone golums instead. Most other fantasy realms other than GW dwarfs have acess to such constructs.

This would give the army some speed and the ability to capture objectives more easily.

We got on to talking about how they could be in a army list and also how to build them.

For taking them in an army we decided on allying orge ironguts as the dwarfs still have acess to dogs of war, but when chewing over how to make them we decided that the dwarven kings wall from the battle of skull pass has three stoney dwarven heads that would suit a construst right out the forges but we couldn't think of what you could use for the torsos without major greenstuffing.

Any ideas?

zeebie
05-02-2010, 04:45
there other game systems with golem and/or Earth elementals. Once I get funds, I was going to order some of them and try some strange conversions.

I like http://www.reapermini.com/PaintedGallery/anne%20foerster/latest/65090

place some nice dwarf runes on it and your done

zeebie
05-02-2010, 04:56
posted a message but didn't appear to have worked oh well, to create a golem wouldn't be to hard if you go outside of the GW universe, Reaper miniature have some already made golems, but I personally like Reaper Earth elemental, which only requires some dwarf runes and would make a perfect earth golem

ChaosVC
05-02-2010, 05:58
I was talking to a friend in games workshop the other day and we came up with the idea of dwarven stone golums instead. Most other fantasy realms other than GW dwarfs have acess to such constructs.

This would give the army some speed and the ability to capture objectives more easily.

We got on to talking about how they could be in a army list and also how to build them.

For taking them in an army we decided on allying orge ironguts as the dwarfs still have acess to dogs of war, but when chewing over how to make them we decided that the dwarven kings wall from the battle of skull pass has three stoney dwarven heads that would suit a construst right out the forges but we couldn't think of what you could use for the torsos without major greenstuffing.

Any ideas?

Well all I know is Dragon age dwarves have them, but having golems does really give the dwarves speed and more strength, probably the stats of Ushabti but ST5 T5 imo. It may make it more interesting I believe. This could at least give dwarves a more viable option for aggressive advancing built and less "optimal" then a "Tank" contruct. Still fluffy IMHO.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
05-02-2010, 06:04
Well all I know is Dragon age dwarves have them, but having golems does really give the dwarves speed and more strength, probably the stats of Ushabti but ST5 T5 imo. It may make it more interesting I believe. This could at least give dwarves a more viable option for aggressive advancing built and less "optimal" then a "Tank" contruct. Still fluffy IMHO.

I could go with this idea. It is much better than a tank, but they would have to be careful with the fluff. The runes on the golem shouldn't be to bind daemons [too much like chaos dwarfs], nor should the golems contain the spirits of dwarf ancestors [too much like Dreadnoughts].

snurl
05-02-2010, 06:16
I don't normally post to the WFB threads, but I thought everyone might like to see this little gem from the late '80s:

http://www.groettum.net/dwarfen/TA2index1.htm

Be sure to check link at the bottom of the articles to see the painted and converted one from WD117.

Examples occasionally turn up on eBay, but they're as rare as rocking horse dung and command silly money from collectors.

I have had one for years. I like it, but can't game with it.


...Dwarfs havng a tank....no. I dont see it.

Deathrollers however...usefull to crush enemies in tight passages...like those found in the dwarvern tunnels:evilgrin:. A regiment of Ogres sized Deathrollers could be useful as a fast option to a Dwarvern force without giving them a crazy big monster...while at the same time addressing the whole slow Dwarf problem.

Yes- Perhaps "tank" was a poor choice of words on my part. A large, mobile deathroller is more like what I had in mind.

Thanks for all of the replies, both pro and con. There's definately some good arguments on both sides of the question. I don't want to steam punk the Dwarfs, heavens no. :D

ChaosVC
05-02-2010, 06:27
I could go with this idea. It is much better than a tank, but they would have to be careful with the fluff. The runes on the golem shouldn't be to bind daemons [too much like chaos dwarfs], nor should the golems contain the spirits of dwarf ancestors [too much like Dreadnoughts].

IMO I wouldn't have a problem with the idea of dwarf ancestor spirits binded by the ruins within the golems. But I also can go with the idea in which it is but a mere construct animated by the magic of a ruin smiths. Anything voodoowy can go in a fantasy world after all. But the former idea, binding dwarven spirits to golems via ruins seems much more cooler, its like an alternative to the slayer path and more damning.

zeebie
05-02-2010, 06:33
IMO I wouldn't have a problem with the idea of dwarf ancestor spirits binded by the ruins within the golems. But I also can go with the idea in which it is but a mere construct animated by the magic of a ruin smiths. Anything voodoowy can go in a fantasy world after all. But the former idea, binding dwarven spirits to golems via ruins seems much more cooler, its like an alternative to the slayer path and more damning.

it's also nearly a direct rip off of dragon ages dwarfs. then again I would like to see it, but it would have to be runesmith soul, and could be a way for them to gain immortality

Volker the Mad Fiddler
05-02-2010, 06:36
IMO I wouldn't have a problem with the idea of dwarf ancestor spirits binded by the ruins within the golems. But I also can go with the idea in which it is but a mere construct animated by the magic of a ruin smiths. Anything voodoowy can go in a fantasy world after all. But the former idea, binding dwarven spirits to golems via ruins seems much more cooler, its like an alternative to the slayer path and more damning.

If Dreadnoughts didn't already exist in 40K, I would really like the ancestor spirit idea. As it is though, they just seem too much like dreadnoughts for me. Maybe have each of them contain a page or a fragment of a page from the Great Book of Grudges. They are the embodiment of the Dwarfen desire for retribution. Heck, take it a step further and have them be books of grudges themselves so that all the runes on them are actually the recording of grudges.

ChaosVC
05-02-2010, 06:54
it's also nearly a direct rip off of dragon ages dwarfs. then again I would like to see it, but it would have to be runesmith soul, and could be a way for them to gain immortality

Indeed! But since when is GW fantasy orginal, perhaps with chaos, I am not sure bout that. But like you, I definately would like to see it happen. Definately cool I would say. :D

@Volker, Yeah I can understand what you mean about the dreadnought thing. I have my own problem accepting other things that are too similar with another fluff. But I don't think GW would do it and even if they do, the whole of warseer would go "RIPPPP OOOFFFF" and I am sure thats the kind of reaction GW wants. But then again...*cough*.... necrons... *coughs*...Arny terminator.:angel:

snurl
05-02-2010, 07:09
Actually, the Dwarf tank has been done before, about 10 years ago WOTC had one for their clicky based prepaint game. It was OK looking, but a bit too modern for my taste. Although it did have a large turning spikey drum mounted on its front end, the rest of it looked a bit like a WWI armoured car.

ChaosVC
05-02-2010, 07:30
Well, the dwarves in their hidden mansions would probably be drinking tea and playing playing polos while putting an emo front looking uncouth for all we know. They had advanced and become a mighty empire beneath the mountains, you can't blame them for a advance and modern looking tank compared to the rather sluggish and badly put together human contraption of a steam tank, or as we all know, stank. :D

Condottiere
05-02-2010, 08:53
I think that while magic in the form of buffs are acceptable to our image of Warhammer Dwarves, actually animating an object such as a golem without having moving parts in the form of machinery seems to run counter to that image.

Leogun_91
05-02-2010, 08:56
Dwarf don't use runes?, I'm sure that the anvil sounds very magical to me. Runes are not magic, magic is dangerous , unreliable and evil. Runes are not magic.

rtunian
05-02-2010, 14:48
i think it would be neat to have this driller tank, not as a tank, but as a slow moving chariot, and more importantly, the delivery system of the miners. i'd say you couldn't take the driller without x units of miners, and then the miners don't come out until after the drill has dug its way onto the battlefield, and then the miners come out from the same hole, rolling for entry only after the drill is on the field

Mjameshayter
05-02-2010, 15:23
I just want to thank eveyone who joined the decussion on Dwarven golums, im new to warseer and im quite pleased with the amount of responces on the topic, definatly given me lots of ideas on how to make a construct of the forge.

I like the idea of venerated dwarven souls bound into stone or metal golums and i know thats basically a dreadnought but i dont really mind. Mosts things in warhammer are repeated in 40k and vias versa, you just need to look at chaos.

I agree that with the dwarven techincal minds, stone moving like flesh dosn't really fit but i think it would give the army book a unit opption that none of the others can fill tactically. Personally i thnk they suit the theme of the army better than a dwarven tank, I dont see dwarfs driving a tank though a mine.

grumbaki
05-02-2010, 15:32
I can see it now. The dwarven armored personel carrier. It can hold up to 20 dwarfs in it, who can disembark and form up in a battle line. We could have an army of dwarfs in rhin-, I mean, steam powered tanks, that could assaul-, I mean, form a battle line, after disembarking. It'd be great, as it would cover our problem of having a static battle line. I mean, what would be cooler than having a horde of slayers charge out of a tank? Either that or dwarfs with new super armor that gives them a 3+ AS and new rifles that can shoot 2x str 4 AP shots a turn at half range, or one shot at long range. It'd be great!

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In all seriousness, tanks just don't seem right for a dwarf army. The steam roller idea is a bit better, but I still think that dwarfs should stay away from anything too futuristic. Could you imagine how much the longbeards would grumble about this? I'd be happy to just to let slayers skirmish and to let gyrocopters do bombing runs.

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edit: About Golems: I'm not too sure about that idea. It doesn't sound right for dwarfs to act like the Eldar and to bind their ancestors into tools of war. The ancestors are living it up in the halls of Grimnir, so why would the dwarfs practice necromancy by bringing them back? Though to be fair the dwarfs did have runic statues (I guess like the Ushbati) back in Warhammer Fantasy RP v 1 (All I remember is that they were there in the Doomstones campaign books), so they are not without precedent. I just don't know if they fit in nowadays to the dwarf image.

N810
05-02-2010, 15:40
Not a tank per say,
but maybe a large steam powered siege tower or something ???

Althought that drill idea sounds prety good too.