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Riocard
04-02-2010, 19:03
Hi Fellas,

I'd like to start a new good aligned army but i'm a bit unsure what would be a good choice for me.

Up to now i have Empire, WoC and Tomb Kings. I really do like armies that mainly consist of infantry and are still competitive, at least a bit.

I already dropped Dwarves because they tend to be similar to Empire and TK but are a bit more unflexible most of the times and a bit stronger in close combat compared to both.
I also dropped Bretonnians because i really don't like their background.

So it's a decision between High Elves, Wood Elves and Lizardmen. I like the models of each of them and i think i can adopt the tactics (although different to the ones i use now) needed to play with them.

Another point i need to consider is how expensive is it to build an army of these three and how hard it is to paint them at least to a point they look good on the battlefield (i have average or maybe even below average painting skills).

That's why i need some advice from you guys which army would be a good choice for me.

Thanx in advance.

P.S.: I'm thinking of building an 2 k points army at least so i would need models worth around 3k to have something i can can choose from.

The SkaerKrow
04-02-2010, 19:19
Given your criteria, I'd select Lizardmen. Wood Elves aren't much of a conventional infantry force, so that limits their appeal. High Elves can field strong infantry, but they require a clean color scheme which is usually somewhat demanding to paint. Lizardmen have the best all-around infantry in the game, and are gribbly enough that you can get away with a messier scheme without having it detract too much from the models themselves.

cyberspite
04-02-2010, 19:29
Having just started some lizards myself I must say they are great opportunity to do something really colourful that just wouldn't work with any other army. Wood elves are great to play with but painting all those greens and browns does get a bit boring.

As for high elves I actually found them easier to paint due to all the armour, IMO it's much easier than painting cloth or flesh.

willowdark
04-02-2010, 19:38
I don't know, Skaerkrow. A High Elf army will usually have a basic bi-chromatic colour scheme, usually with a lot of white, so depending on how much attention you're paying to flesh highlighting and shading, you're mostly working with solid colours and washes, while the core models themselves don't exactly have a lot of detail. A LM army with multiple stegs, especially an EotG, terradons, either flavor of hunting pack or Temple Guard would be much harder to paint than High Elves, I'd think.

LM are also a lot more expensive, if you're going infantry. Sure, Skinks are 24 to a box for - what? - $30, but a Skink horde isn't anymore traditional than a WE army. Saurus come in boxes of 16 for the same price, meaning you'd need ~60 bucks, American, for just one unit of 20 or 2 units of 12, even worse if you go MSU like I've been building. Add to that TG in boxes of 10, then the $40 Steg boxes, the Terradons and hunting packs and LM get down right expensive, compared to the other choices.

Of course, I haven't priced out HE really, so after a few five model, metal infantry boxes I'm sure they add up too, but without a Dragon to really inflate the cost I wouldn't think they'd be as bad as LM.

Now WE I know are much cheaper to build, and the WE battalion is a better buy by far than the other battalions. And WE, like Ogres in a lot of ways, are one of those break out tactician's armies, the kind that really makes you grow as a player. If you've got a lot of experience with Empire and WoC, and are looking to branch out, WE, I think, would provide the most rewarding choice, if only for the perspective of the game they offer.

Sons of Blight
04-02-2010, 20:56
lizardmen would be much easier to paint - base color - wash - highlight.

Ivellis
04-02-2010, 22:04
@willowdark: I've priced out every army multiple times, and LM are one of, if not the cheapest army in the game. The small amount of metals and high amount of models per box is great. Plus stegs taking up so many points and being amazing in game makes it even better. Yes it'll be a bit more expensive if you're going infantry, but then you'll just be taking a slann with temple guard instead of stegs.

snowywlf
04-02-2010, 23:48
I'll second the Lizardmen selection. The benefits have been clearly explained already, but I wanted to add information about the cost.

Lizardmen army is actually very affordable. Why? Because the Battalion is nearly perfect. You get a solid block of Saurus, a unit of Skinks for skirmishing, half a unit of Temple Guard for your Slann and a set of Cold One Cavalry. Buy two Battalions and you are literally only missing a slann and maybe a stegadon to have a complete, good army.

Here's a cost comparison of purchasing the models in the battalion vs. their individual boxes:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/snowywlf/ModelCosts.jpg

The only downside to two battalions is the extra Cold One Calvary. You'll probably only ever need 1 unit of 5. Still, this gives you the models to make yourself Old Bloods and Scar vets riding Cold Ones (very popular choices) without laying the cash out for metal models.

The Red Scourge
05-02-2010, 02:45
Lizards are great for 8-year olds with a fascination of frogs and salamanders.

High elves are great if you're a little sloppy with movement and want to show off your big pe- uh dragon ;)

While woodies are a fantastic demanding tactical army that will really work to improve your gaming skills. It might not be based on big blocks of infantry, but infantry is their key to victory. And one of their greatest strengths is their unparallelled internal balance, ensuring that you can field a wide variety of units.

Also remember to consider brets. Peasant legions are good looking and fun armies, and they're the only army that can justify having ranked units of cavalry - if its the big block thing that appeals to your infantry heart. Just remember that just because brets have knights, it doesn't mean you have to base your whole strategy on them :)

Hope it helped - or at least planted the seeds of doubt :)

ChaosVC
05-02-2010, 02:56
Hi, if you drop dwarves because they are too similiar to empire, I can assure you that High elves are not that much different in terms of tactics, they are smaller and more elite but instead of better at shooting, they are better at magic.

Woodelves may not have the infantry element that you like alot, it is definately a more refreshing and different style of army to play with.

Lizardman is a mid ranges shooty army with decent infantry and a very powerful magic phase. It is kinda of balance and can be as versatile as empire and high elves.

As for painting, I believe they are all fun to paint, you don't really have to stick with the colour scheme presented in the army book, as long as the colour scheme match the theme of the army. It will still look good and be fun to paint. Of the three, lizardman might probably be the easiest to paint.

Riocard
05-02-2010, 16:00
Hm i still can't decide what to pick.
But i think High Elves are a bit more expensive than Lizardman and Woodelves too because i would at least need 15 White Lions and around 20 Swordmasters. And the Silver Helmets from the Batallion are a bit wasted. So i'm thinking of dropping them too leaving me with Woodies or Lizzies.

bluemage
06-02-2010, 03:07
Some pro and cons of each

Wood Elves will offer the most unique play style of the three armies listed. But the models have a fair amount of detail that needs to be painted to really stand out. They aren't difficult to paint, but they'll take a lot of time.

Lizardmen should probably offer the next best choice for trying out different playstyles. They're one of the cheapest armies to buy and rather easy to paint.

You might enjoy high elves. They're kind of expensive to collect unless you're running teclis or a star dragon. Painting them shouldn't be to hard, just try and keep everything clean.

If you could give some more information about the kind of playstyle you're looking for it'll be easier to point you in the right direction. If you can, you could also pop into your local gw and ask some red shirts for advice, just be sure you save yourself some money and buy things online if you're able to.

tezdal
06-02-2010, 03:28
I'd go with whatever models you like better first off, but if it was me I definately go wood elves, amazing miniatures (except for the dryads and treekin, I liked the old version of these fellas alot better), pretty versatile tactics you can use, plus Legolas from Lotr pwns Dinosaurs.

DarkMark
06-02-2010, 07:07
I have about 4-5k of WE and LM, and enjoy both. WE are a little cheaper I'd say as you can convert almost everything out of the battalion box. The biggest plus of LM over WE is the crazy magic phase you can have. WE on the other hand will give you a killer movement phase, which do you prefer?

Some modelling tips and ideas...

1. GRs are a very decent sub for WHRs, and therefore won't cost you that bit extra, terries are a must for LM and are fairly expensive
2. WDs can be converted from GG, helping to keep cost down
3. You could bling up one of the CoK to represent an old one from the bits in the LM battalion.

Very roughly what two battalion boxes, and one metal lord, could give you...

WE
lord with GW
(other lord choices are easy conversions from GG, see note below)

2x10 GG, third unit would be max in 2k, but would use up models
3x8 dryads
3x5 GR (and a spare for lord), or 1x5 GR and 2x5 (converted)WRs

2x8 WD, converted from remaining GG
1x4 treekin, sticks from garden and GS, so no real cost except time!
WR see GR!

1x5 WW
1x treeman, see treekin

You will have a couple of models over to convert a mage or two. The only really useful unit you're missing is the eagle. The conversions don't need to be expert just a few GS leafs, and a different paint scheme will do it. EG currently just look pretty and aren't used much by players, and can therefore probably be ignored. This will give you a solid list at around 2k.

LM

lord, slann

2x18 sauras with spears
2x12 skinks

1x20 TG (though 16 is enough really) to put slann in
3x5 CoK, and spare to be converted to scar vet/ old blood

Critically you are missing the excellent steggs and terries from the army. You could raid a toy store and pick up a couple of cheapy alternatives for use as steggs, terries, sallies, or even 'dons.


I hope I've been fair, and its dead early for me as I write this so please forgive any mistakes I may have made. To summize both will give you enjoyment, but generally other players will prefer to fight LM over WE.:)

The Red Scourge
06-02-2010, 07:20
The biggest plus of LM over WE is the crazy magic phase you can have. WE on the other hand will give you a killer movement phase, which do you prefer?

Right on the head. LMs strength lies in a phase ruled by dice, while WEs strength lies in the only phase fully controlled by the player, movement.

brendel
06-02-2010, 09:28
Right on the head. LMs strength lies in a phase ruled by dice, while WEs strength lies in the only phase fully controlled by the player, movement.

If thats the case HE's can give you both.

tezdal
06-02-2010, 10:05
If thats the case HE's can give you both.



...With cone-heads

The Red Scourge
06-02-2010, 10:14
If thats the case HE's can give you both.

Hah! HE move like slugs compared to WE :p The only races near competing in the movement phase is DE and slaanesh daemons :)

Condottiere
06-02-2010, 10:41
Depends on the terrain and the style of the player.

brendel
06-02-2010, 10:46
[QUOTE=The Red Scourge;4369806]Hah! HE move like slugs compared to WE :p The only races near competing in the movement phase is DE and slaanesh daemons :)[/QUOTE

Yes, and I said they give you both, LM magic phase would be more powerful but high elves give you a good mix of both, as well as better combat units than wood elves, ASF when combined with magic and there speed can be very effective.