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Travinicus_Lector
06-02-2010, 07:16
So, i've been playing empire for a bit and i haven't been getting much satisfaction out of my games recently.. i've been considering purchasing a new army.

I don't know much about either of these armies as i've never played either.. but should I get vampire counts or ogre kingdoms?

The appeal of ogre kingdoms to me would be:
a. big, easier to paint models ( and i wouldn't have to paint many )
b. less models = less money
c. they look scary
d. they seem to be an underdog ( and i'd enjoy smashing underestimaters )

The appeal of Vampire counts to me would be:
a. I love the theme of the undead
b. they're generally considered to be pretty tough
c. i have a friend that has a fully painted ( and its modeled/painted really well ) vampire army that he'd sell me for $500

I'd love to hear your input on a few things to help me decide...

Why are Ogre kingdoms generally considered to be weaksauce? Could i run an ogre kingdoms army that would devastate opponents? Sample army list?

Why are you so afraid of the Vampire counts? Are they really that beefy?

All things aside... if you were me... which would you go for?

Agoz
06-02-2010, 07:26
$500 seems like alot, how many points is it?

Both armies are appealing in their own ways, I'll answer your questions

"Why are Ogre kingdoms generally considered to be weaksauce?" Well, heres a few reasons:
low leadership, low static combat res, can't really cause enough damage to make up for that lack, everything seems overcosted as far as points go, and the army selections have alot of unnecessary restrictions.

"Why are you afraid of the Vampire counts?" They've got some very powerful characters generating a ton of magical power, they use this magic to spam necromancy spells, replenishing any damage you do to them. They are considered beefy, because the right build can be almost impossible to crack for some armies.

Travinicus_Lector
06-02-2010, 07:31
Hey Agoz what part of Utah are you in?

the Vampire count army is a little over 2000 points... if he sold the army on ebay he'd probably make around $1000... he can really paint... and he did some impressive modeling.

You play Ogres then? Are they pretty fun? What do you think would be an ideal army list for them to be suitable adversaries for dark elves or high elves?

Vermin-thing
06-02-2010, 07:38
Ogres hands down. Vampires, wile cool with great fluff, and models tend to be on the top of the heap. If your on a budget the Ogre army is very cheep, two battalions, and a character or two, which can also be made from the battalion. Each battalion is about 800-1200 points depending on if you make characters or not. OK is an incredibly fun and challenging (in a good way) army to play, and in the long run will prove to be a more rewarding experience.

I play Ogres, or rather Gnoblars, as I'm doing a horde using only Gnoblars models, with the proper conversions and base sizes.

Travinicus_Lector
06-02-2010, 07:59
Ogres hands down. Vampires, wile cool with great fluff, and models tend to be on the top of the heap. If your on a budget the Ogre army is very cheep, two battalions, and a character or two, which can also be made from the battalion. Each battalion is about 800-1200 points depending on if you make characters or not. OK is an incredibly fun and challenging (in a good way) army to play, and in the long run will prove to be a more rewarding experience.

I play Ogres, or rather Gnoblars, as I'm doing a horde using only Gnoblars models, with the proper conversions and base sizes.

Thank you Vermin - thing, I'm definitely leaning more towards Ogres... i just hope i don't get pwned... they seem to be on the bottom of everyone's list as far as kicking trash ability goes.
But yeah.. you can get the battalion box for like... $65 on amazon. Full army for less than $200 has got a lot of sex appeal.

Kill Krazy
06-02-2010, 08:09
ogres. Vampires always play the same style every game. It's also hard to make lots of diffrent lists.

Ogres are always diffrent. They are fun because they are just so different too.No other armies basic troop has 3 wounds.

Also vampires happen to be one of the most popular armies currently played (and maybe even the most). If you want to be different go ogres.

From personal experience i can tell you that ogres would be a better choice.

Jesper
06-02-2010, 08:45
If you can live with not winning many tournaments, I think that ogres would be the most interesting choice.

We have an ogre player in my local gaming group, and we all agreed to add two changes to the ogre army that proved to really balance things (making for much better and more interesting battles for all of us).

a) 10% extra points (ogres are overcosted).

b) 6+ Scaly skin (or tough hide for ogres). To compensate for the lack of armour.

If you could agree with you gaming group on something similar, ogres are one of most fun and interesting armies, both to play and to play against.

Travinicus_Lector
06-02-2010, 10:14
If you can live with not winning many tournaments, I think that ogres would be the most interesting choice.

We have an ogre player in my local gaming group, and we all agreed to add two changes to the ogre army that proved to really balance things (making for much better and more interesting battles for all of us).

a) 10% extra points (ogres are overcosted).

b) 6+ Scaly skin (or tough hide for ogres). To compensate for the lack of armour.

If you could agree with you gaming group on something similar, ogres are one of most fun and interesting armies, both to play and to play against.

Thanks for that Jesper, although its kind of a bummer, that may be a good option.

Belakor
06-02-2010, 10:25
I got rid of my Empire, started Ogres and never looked back.

Two reasons:

1) The painting and conversion possibilities are endless and very rewarding with OK

2) Plays differently, with some nifty options, and if your opponents allows it, have one of the best cavalry in the game.

I have also been using a few DoW cannons lately, which our group allows (and the OK book does too), to remove or scare large flyers which, to me anyways, is the biggest threat to Ogres.

The Red Scourge
06-02-2010, 10:25
I wouldn't rule out VC either.

They've got some rather broken combinations, but if you take your precautions its a decently balanced army filled with heroics. The ogres would probably be the most 'fun' as in challenging :)

Condottiere
06-02-2010, 10:34
If it's a well painted army, considering how many hours were invested in creating it, it might be worth that price; but do a little shopping and try and compare similar offers.

maze ironheart
06-02-2010, 11:07
I say go with what you like I went for vampires cause I like vampire movies and all things to do with them and their fluff is very good but exspect a lot of people witch hunting you cause you play them.

Papawolf
06-02-2010, 11:37
vamps are boooooring

smallgreenguy
06-02-2010, 12:14
Well, vamps and ogres are the two armies I play ;)

I love my VC but that's just because I love anything undead. It's my army of darkness. That said, I would say go with ogres. You will lose a lot of the time, but if you win, you will know you definitely earned it!

I think the ogre army was more fun to paint.

I think they are both equally fun to play for different reasons. You really need to out play your oppnent to win with ogres. With VC I love using wraiths and taking a broad array of core units, which to me is quite fun. It's also usually an even fight with my VC considering some of the other army lists out there.

ATM there is no real "awesome" ogre list. There's MSU which uses a lot of small units to flee and flank charge, and Paradigm which usually uses a big Maneater deathstar. Though calling it a deathstar is kind of going over board since it still pales in comparison to other armies lol.

I would recommend ogres, simply for the fluff and challenging aspect, as long as you can have fun without winning all the time, or even 50%.

Jind_Singh
06-02-2010, 18:36
ogres hands down! I had the exact same dilema as you, between the same 2 armies, and I never looked back at getting Ogres.

1) Price - Waaay cheaper than VC, so cheap that I was able to splurge and buy all 6 versions of Maneaters - THE best models in the gaming world!
2) Easy to paint. I will say it again as it's bear saying again. Easy to paint.
3) Excellent conversions, easy to do. I know so many people that convert their butchers, tyrants, brusiers, even maneaters from the core plastic troops, but personally I really like the GW tyrant model and maneaters, butchers on the other hand...no problems in converting me so of those!
4) Gaming - You can max out the ogre list to your hearts content and still be called a good sport. With VC you have to TRY to make a fair list! What is the fun in that? I have a 11,000pt DoC army and it was so frustrating making lists as I had to work really hard to make a weak (for a DoC) armylist and couldn't take my cool stuff as its over-powered. With the OK they are like orcs and goblins, no such thing as overpowered!
5) CHallange, challange, challange - nothing better than beating someone with an under-powered army or grinding them to a draw - and OK can more than do that. I love being the under-dog, thats why my favourite fantasy army right now are Orcs & Goblins and Ogres!
6) Tactical - great elements of playstyles have to be incorporated to make these guys work - very rewarding. Plus you can build various types of orge lists, wereas VC they are more limitied in play styles.
7) Yehtees - best flankers in the game, period!

So theres a few things to say about Ogres, for way less than $500 you got a cool army, if you spend the full $500 you got everything you need!

Actually just went to the websitre and if you took EVERYTHING from the book, including the book

army book
tyrant, butcher, hunter
2 battalians
18 trappers
6 yhetees
scrap launcher
6 maneaters
2 gorgers
giant

Your looking at just under $1000, but that is EVERYTHING from the book including the army book! So thats wicked as for the $500 you got solid, solid army.

Hope this helps

tezdal
06-02-2010, 21:29
Go for Ogres, eating things is way better than sucking on things.

shredshredxx
07-02-2010, 00:32
go for vampires, they're a very different playstyle than any other army in wfb, and they're a lot of fun. very flexible, you can go any any direction you want with the list.

have fun dude, good luck.

Kalandros
07-02-2010, 02:00
Go for Vampires now.

Get Ogres as another army when they get their new armybook near the end of 2010.

tezdal
07-02-2010, 02:06
Plus if you get Ogres now you will avoid the pricehikes when they get new models.

Vermin-thing
07-02-2010, 06:25
We know that Ogres may or may not be getting redone the next so that means a crappy battalion. I'd pick them up in droves.

Penitent Engine
07-02-2010, 11:41
Well, as a Vampire player I can safely say that Vampires are one of the most fun armies out there if you play to their background rather than their potential power-hammer. For example, very few people will cry foul if you took a feral Strigoi-esque list with tons of Ghouls, a Varghulf, some bats and a character. Well, they might, but only if they lose :D

TBH, I'd say play Ogres. Very different, awesome models, cheap (v. important), and you gain tons of respect if you consistently win with them. As opposed to VC where you get whined at.

Travinicus_Lector
07-02-2010, 12:32
ATM there is no real "awesome" ogre list. There's MSU which uses a lot of small units to flee and flank charge, and Paradigm which usually uses a big Maneater deathstar. Though calling it a deathstar is kind of going over board since it still pales in comparison to other armies lol.

MSU?

I would recommend ogres, simply for the fluff and challenging aspect, as long as you can have fun without winning all the time, or even 50%.

Really? they lose that much huh? ... i won't lie... i DO like to win... haha


Go for Ogres, eating things is way better than sucking on things.

:D That's what she said! :evilgrin:




TBH, I'd say play Ogres. Very different, awesome models, cheap (v. important), and you gain tons of respect if you consistently win with them. As opposed to VC where you get whined at.

Good point..
i'd love to win consistently with an underdog army...

ok guys... i'm going for it...
I'm on my way to amazon to buy my first Ogre battalion box.
Thank you all so much for your help!

w3rm
07-02-2010, 16:24
Vampire ogres!!!

Verdande
07-02-2010, 23:20
I agree with the crowd saying Ogres. Your reasons and mine are very similar- Ogres are cheaps, there's not too many models to paint, and they look really cool. They're huge and different and, as I understand, difficult to play but devastating if you play them correctly.

I've only got a few Ogres so far, but I really like them a lot.

Da GoBBo
07-02-2010, 23:40
As a starting Ogre player, you should really check out this thread at the Ogre Strongholds forum. It's a lot of reading, but to be honest I was a bit sad when I finished. Really good read.

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=11728.0

ChaosVC
08-02-2010, 02:43
I say VC is the best thing right now, great models and great conversion oportunities. It take some effort for some to begin to like ogres.

shredshredxx
08-02-2010, 09:51
i'm going to tell you this right now. it's depressing, but it's true. and it's relevant, seeing as how you said you like to win.

i've been playing warhammer for about 2 years.

i've never seen ogres win a single battle.

i've been in 4 indy gts and 2 smaller sized tournaments,

and i play at least once every 2 weeks, usually a lot more.

now, it could very well be that i have a skewed perspective.

maybe all the ogre players in my area suck.

but i'm just saying.

i've also played them myself 3 times,

and i wouldn't say i'm any sort of brilliant strategist.

massacred them twice, got a solid victory once.

i'm just saying.

BUT

if you can pull it off, tear people's faces off with ogres, and make people quiver in fear at the utterance of the words "ogre kingdoms,"

hell yeah!

good luck dude!

-Grimgorironhide-
08-02-2010, 10:13
I have a few armies but I never considered VC because of the invo spam and loss of bloodline character from 6th. But then I stubbled upon the project Bloodline lists on VampireC.net and after viewing the fun flexibility and fluffyness of them I knew I would begin VC (I don't play tournies so I have no problem playing the lists at my club. Plus many members prefer them over the standard list too).

Trust me the Bloodline lists are alot more fun to use over the standard list and are great for army themes. Plus alot of the powerful combos are toned down somewhat and are more friendly to play against.

Though this won't make a difference if you're a tourne player of course.

cheers.

P.S. Add of course another good reason to start VC are for the zombies and conversion possibilities!

Penitent Engine
08-02-2010, 12:26
Also, nothing wrong with theming your list around bloodlines for tournies without using extra rules :)

And I have seen Ogres win...once. But then, I've only see them play two games :p

Demrog
08-02-2010, 12:57
Ogre Kingdoms was the only army I ever beat with my O&G Army....

Mind you... I think I only ever played 3 2000pt battles with them before I sold them all :p

Good luck, and most importantly... have fun!

jonadaya
08-02-2010, 13:23
I have won many games with my ogres and I love them , they DO require a lot of the player where the VC don't really require anything at all.

Go ogres, it will be beneficial for you as a player, AND if the rumors are true they soon will get a new book which should make winning easier.

Sons of Blight
09-02-2010, 17:36
Go with w/e fluff you like more.

Jind_Singh
09-02-2010, 17:51
I've seen Ogres win PLENTY of times! True they have to work harder, maybe pray to the Great Maw between die rolls, but it's been done, and done on a consistant level. The ones who have Ogres and never win are...not good Tyrants to be honest.

Great models, great style of play, and their book is just excellent to read - a really different kind of Army Book from others, worth collecting and keeping to be honest. In addition the army is much cheaper to collect, it's easier to put together and paint (3 models = complete unit, 1 days work, or spend the same day doing 5 wolf Riders, JUST the riders!)

AND if the new book does come out...well, well - you've got yourself a head start on the crowd!